Where's Patch 4.35

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Originally Posted by Kurando

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And that effect was the omission of a dungeon at best. Per Yoshida's own words from the Live Letter...

"Since there is a large assortment of content being implemented in Patch 4.3, and we believe players will be busy with things like the main scenario, we may push back the implementation of Heaven-on-High just a bit."

That doesn't give the impression they had to delay it due to Ultimate, but rather a decision they made purely on the belief there was enough content to satisfy players. Or at least keep them subscribed. Trying to fault Ultimate for this content drought is simply reaching for excuses. It had no bearing on Heaven on High being delayed.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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No one is saying that Ultimate alone is the sole reason for anything to be delayed, only it's a factor in the grand scheme of patch releases which to be honest cannot be shunned as if it's wrong to think like that. And just like you quoted "busy with things like the main scenario", Yoshi did not specify what other things exactly in that patch because he knows every single player will value the individual content in each update very differently. Many things have been delayed in the past and on most occasions something else was thrown in to replace it or brought forward to keep a steady flow of content, any other MMO would do the effect exact same thing.

Based on previous posts we can see who might be the ones reaching for excuses on lack of so called content.

Even if Ultimate was the reason they were delaying content (and it's not, claiming it would be out now if Ultimate hadn't been released is just an assumption so let me assume something else - they still would have wanted the same space between Ridorana and HoH and Ultimate does not fill the niche either of those does) I still don't think they should drop it because even if I'm not one of the people enjoying that content, a lot of people are. It's one of the few pieces of content I hear unabashedly appreciated. Even people who don't prog it enjoy it. And people who do prog it deserve something that they've been asking for and that they like to do.

An MMO encompasses a lot of different player types and I'd like to ask the "casuals" to start giving the "hardcores" the same courtesy we demand of them - don't keep trying to force them to change their content to suit you. I don't want a tank screaming at me, as a healer, to go faster in a casual dungeon (even if I do DPS most of the time anyway), and I think it's disingenuous for people to tell hardcore raiders to "let them have their content" but then make demands that hardcore content be nerfed or changed to suit them.

Everybody deserves something to do that they enjoy, and if I have 5 pieces of content, I'll take 4 to make sure somebody else gets their 1.

It's like that internet meme "I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people."

Would it be nice if SE had more resources to devote to this? Yep. Do they currently? Nope, so I'm not gonna demand they cull everything I don't do so I can be catered to.

It has nothing to do with not giving content.

They are giving you it. The reason you don't have a third one is NO ONE CAN BEAT THE PREVIOUS TWO IN A TIMELY MANNER ENOUGH TO DEMAND IT. It's pointless to give three fights if only the world firsters have beaten the first two by now. If they keep doing this schedule, eventually they will reach a point where people simply don't beat them, they switch to new ones as they come out.

Maybe the streamers want to watch the world firsters do it again, but thats not something to base content on in an mmo.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Yes, having a weekend available to play video games and complete exhaust all the new content because there simply isn't any certainly makes me a glutton.

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WEEKEND??? Don't be ridiculous! The patch is released on Tuesday. By the weekend, it's all dead content!

In all seriousness, though, the dev team can only create so much content. If they dump it all at the start of the patch, many players will burn through it in a couple of weeks, and then have months with nothing to do. It's the exact same problem; the question is how do you divide up the empty space? Front load it all and then have months of nothing to do? Or release it in parcels over the span of the patch, resulting in multiple, smaller lull periods? The answer is pretty obvious; months of emptiness cause players to stop paying for the game and, even more importantly, stop thinking about the game. SE NEEDS folks to stay hyped, but can only produce so much content. By spacing it out, there's always something new on the horizon, just a few weeks away.

Yeah, this is hard on folks who like to burn through content at a breakneck pace - but I believe it would be even harder on those SAME folks if they released everything at once.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

but I believe it would be even harder on those SAME folks if they released everything at once.

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"Burning through content" isn't the issue. Having repeatable content like HoH and Pagos held to the end when, instead, we could be filling gaps with it, is the issue. There's a difference.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

WEEKEND??? Don't be ridiculous! The patch is released on Tuesday. By the weekend, it's all dead content!

In all seriousness, though, the dev team can only create so much content. If they dump it all at the start of the patch, many players will burn through it in a couple of weeks, and then have months with nothing to do. It's the exact same problem; the question is how do you divide up the empty space? Front load it all and then have months of nothing to do? Or release it in parcels over the span of the patch, resulting in multiple, smaller lull periods? The answer is pretty obvious; months of emptiness cause players to stop paying for the game and, even more importantly, stop thinking about the game. SE NEEDS folks to stay hyped, but can only produce so much content. By spacing it out, there's always something new on the horizon, just a few weeks away.

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I totally agree with this. At this point, I've gotten used to the spacing out content thing because there is still a lot for me to do in game that I haven't done yet personally. I think the issue is basically how SE is releasing the content and how well it's executed. I feel like Eureka could have been a great "filler" for a lot of people but there it needs some work. A party finder, level sync, daily quests and objectives and better gameplay execution as far as not just jumping on a FATE train would have helped it's longevity. For some people, grinding is ok but for me personally it felt like I was back in the mid-2000's playing a korean grindfest MMO.

Fun, repeatable, purposeful content is key. Which is why it seemed like PotD was so popular. People still do that because its a great way to level up and gain some decent items and weapons while doing so. I think that if a story patch and dungeons and trials followed by repeatable content was released it would help smooth over the player base a bit until the next update. I do think a 3-4 month wait is a bit long though...But I know that man-power to crank things out isn't there either...Didn't Yoshi say they were ahead of schedule though?

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

"Burning through content" isn't the issue. Having repeatable content like HoH and Pagos held to the end when, instead, we could be filling gaps with it, is the issue. There's a difference.

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Yeah... I've been waiting for HoH because its in a different slot than the rest of the content. Eureka severely missed the mark of being something enjoyable with a couple friends. I have minimal interest in the harder 8 player content with randoms and everyone else is stuck in their clique/static.

Biggest joke is that I started playing again because they had room for me, just to fill it in with someone they had before instead.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

"Burning through content" isn't the issue. Having repeatable content like HoH and Pagos held to the end when, instead, we could be filling gaps with it, is the issue. There's a difference.

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True, but I think there is idd a problem of ppl presuming too much which is why some ppl have veen adamant in saying that it's a burning trough content problem. Ppl that have less playtime or simply play the game more slowly than other will have much more to do compared to other players and they are feeling a bit salty that ppl presume that even them have nothing to do.
While I agree that this game needs more repetable non time gated content, I can assure you that most ppl won't really find that interesting the 31+ floors of HoH, while Potd is considered a success It had it's fair share of criticism and honestly some even considered it a failure at the time.
In fact I disagree with the idea of the spacing out beign bad because there's nothing to do since imho that is as much as saying that one is complaining about that in june instead of july, while I agree that the spacing out is bad because I'd rather have the choice of how to spend the game

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

SE NEEDS folks to stay hyped, but can only produce so much content. By spacing it out, there's always something new on the horizon, just a few weeks away.

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Considering the negative feedback here, on Reddit and even mentioned on the live letter, I question how hyped people. Instead of "forgetting" about the game, they're jaded things are being purposely delayed to keep them subscribed. This looks especially bad when Yoshida prattles on about wanting players to take breaks if they feel there isn't enough to do. Will some people burn through HoH quickly? Sure. But given the longevity, PotD had, it's safe to assume it would last quite a while. Regardless, I don't think its a good practice to have content release, then have the casual playerbase be told, "wait 4-5 weeks until you have something new to do again."

Don't know if this has been asked yet, but with the new dungeons coming out, what do you think the ilvl requirements will be? I don't raid or anything and primarily only play for the story. But that does mean I need to run the new MSQ dungeons when they go live. I'm currently at 335 or so. Do you think I'll need to be 350 or higher for the new dungeon? I understand HoH is a deep dungeon so ilvl probably won't be a factor. I'm thinking more along the lines of MSQ stuff.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Yeah, this is hard on folks who like to burn through content at a breakneck pace - but I believe it would be even harder on those SAME folks if they released everything at once.

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The problem is that with this patch you dont even need burn through content to have nothing new to do. Even someone who goes at it with a normal speed will have completed it in maybe two weeks maximum and if they are not interested in the hardest content in the game they will suddenly have to wait weeks for a piece of content that at least may be longliving again. MMOs need to have content to keep people playing, especially if you have to pay a sub. Thats why stuff like the relic exist. PotD was something for me that at least went into this direction and kept people playing it for a longer time. I mean we are not even speaking of having content that will keep people playing it for half a year or something like that. But we are even lacking in new content that will keep most people playing it at least for a few weeks to maybe 2-3 months. Eureka for the relic and PotD 2 for leveling could do that, yet somehow both of them are released weeks later...and like Bourne said, it makes people feel like they do that to keep more people subbed.

One thing, remember that the having nothing to do is true if you have really finished everything to do in the game, which can be a big IF to some ppl, so while this is not to be taken as an against to your position, be mindful of this possibility

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Originally Posted by Lium

Don't know if this has been asked yet, but with the new dungeons coming out, what do you think the ilvl requirements will be? I don't raid or anything and primarily only play for the story. But that does mean I need to run the new MSQ dungeons when they go live. I'm currently at 335 or so. Do you think I'll need to be 350 or higher for the new dungeon? I understand HoH is a deep dungeon so ilvl probably won't be a factor. I'm thinking more along the lines of MSQ stuff.

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You'll probably have to be 360. In looking back at the last several dungeon ilvls as they were released, each one corresponds with the previous tome gear (not upgraded). Skalla = 310 (Ala Mhigan gear), Hell's Lid = 330 (Lost Allagan gear), and with the current Ryumyaku gear being 360 pre-upgrade, I'd suspect it's that. I'd just work on expert roulette and get up-to-date with your mendacity gear.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

One thing, remember that the having nothing to do is true if you have really finished everything to do in the game, which can be a big IF to some ppl, so while this is not to be taken as an against to your position, be mindful of this possibility

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That imo is not a good argument because that would mean that nobody ever can say that they have nothing to do. Heck some of the achievements take years to complete and I would dare to say that most people will never finish them. When people say they have nothing to do they mean new content. You cant just keep an MMO alive with long time achievements. If we discuss this points we should never take those into account because they are not content itself but making something artificial longer. I mean I am quite sure that raiders for example would not be fine if they just get one new raid per expansion and the rest is just achivements. "Hey did you already do 1000 run of each raid stage? No? Well then you have something to do and should not complain for a lack of new raids."

There is a point where running the same dungeons again, where crafting the same items for achievements again, where gathering the same ores for the 10.000 HQ achievement will be just annoying. Thats why we need new content, and at least it feels that this patch did not gave it enough.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

That imo is not a good argument because that would mean that nobody ever can say that they have nothing to do. Heck some of the achievements take years to complete and I would dare to say that most people will never finish them. When people say they have nothing to do they mean new content. You cant just keep an MMO alive with long time achievements. If we discuss this points we should never take those into account because they are not content itself but making something artificial longer. I mean I am quite sure that raiders for example would not be fine if they just get one new raid per expansion and the rest is just achivements. "Hey did you already do 1000 run of each raid stage? No? Well then you have something to do and should not complain for a lack of new raids."

There is a point where running the same dungeons again, where crafting the same items for achievements again, where gathering the same ores for the 10.000 HQ achievement will be just annoying. Thats why we need new content, and at least it feels that this patch did not gave it enough.

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Considering the general way of the discussion here I'd say it's a valid point actually.
The point is that ppl are making this argument using their own experiences as absolute, I could tell you a friend that plays with me is ages behind me in most content because how she has decided to play, which means that while I've done most of the things in the game, she hasn't, If I were to complain about the lack of content, there will be a disconnect beteween me and her and THAT'S why I said that.
How someone decides to play the game is their own choice and not necessarily a game problem.
That said I've always said that this game lacks mindful long term goal and I won't back down from that or how the game should not be time gated as 4.3 is.

however take notice that complaining about lack of New content IS, WAS and FOREVER will be a poor argument (if by new you mean as new addition, not new concept ofc) because there's no way that they can keep up churning out new content to satisfy content consumption and that's not a SE problem per se.

Patch 3.5 drops on July 3! Please look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

You'll probably have to be 360. In looking back at the last several dungeon ilvls as they were released, each one corresponds with the previous tome gear (not upgraded). Skalla = 310 (Ala Mhigan gear), Hell's Lid = 330 (Lost Allagan gear), and with the current Ryumyaku gear being 360 pre-upgrade, I'd suspect it's that. I'd just work on expert roulette and get up-to-date with your mendacity gear.

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Skalla = 300
Hell's Lid = 310

Optional Dungeon The Swallow's Compass = 330

There is no way they wont let people using fully upgraded Eureka gear for their left side not be able to do MSQ, given they have ilvl 360 accessories.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Don't know if this has been asked yet, but with the new dungeons coming out, what do you think the ilvl requirements will be? I don't raid or anything and primarily only play for the story. But that does mean I need to run the new MSQ dungeons when they go live. I'm currently at 335 or so. Do you think I'll need to be 350 or higher for the new dungeon? I understand HoH is a deep dungeon so ilvl probably won't be a factor. I'm thinking more along the lines of MSQ stuff.

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Swallows Compass is iLvl 330 and drops iLvl 345 gear. I would expect the new dungeon(s) to be either 345 or 350. Most likely 345, expecting that a player who doesn't raid has at least all the 345 gear from Swallow's mixed in with some +2 Relic gear.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

however take notice that complaining about lack of New content IS, WAS and FOREVER will be a poor argument (if by new you mean as new addition, not new concept ofc) because there's no way that they can keep up churning out new content to satisfy content consumption and that's not a SE problem per se.

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I would never go and say forever because there will often exist an exception. I mean if for example they truly just release one raid per expansion the raiders that are raiding are out of raid content, thus they would be right to complain about a lack of content for them. I know that there always will be people that will finish even the biggest patch in no time and you will also always have people that are slow. But neither of them should be those that the devs should take into account when they are planning their patches. Otherwise they either have to pump out unnecessary huge amount of content or barely anything. (If for example SE would take the word of someone that started new, they would not need to pump out any patches for quite a while because that person does have a huge amount of things to do, but I would dare to say that a lot of us would not be happy with that.)

I also believe that someone that plays this game in a normal pace (and your friend for example seems to be slower) and from the beginning thus have everything they wanted to do completed can call it lack of content. Maybe a better way is to say, the patch itself lacks in content? In the end if you are up to date and are waiting for the patch to bring you new content/additions and you can just finish everything the new patch has to offer in a week or two and then are already bored and need to search for something else to do in the game (which are mostly achievements) then imo there is something wrong with the patch. And this could have been changed if they gave us Eureka or the new PotD at least two weeks after the initial launch.

(And honestly imo saying that its a poor argument is subjective. Everyone has their own kind of definition of lack of content. Some will just count that what they like, some will take each and every achievement in the game into this thus nobody would ever be able to truly complain and so on. But if I for example only look at it from the perspective that a new patch is out and how long it takes a normal paced person to complete the casual content of it then for me this shows a lack of content. Does that make me objectively right? Probably not. But imo we cant discuss this objectively. Thus I dont find it a poor argument at all, we just see it in different ways.)

I kinda force myself not to do much and take extended hiatus of like 4 to 6 months now because content
doesn't hold for long. Even then, I am really sick and tired of caps and lock outs. I'd be inclined to play more
stuff if they didn't lock me through everything to begin with. Since I took a 6month break
I'm still farming pieces for RDM in Deltascape and all, and leveling BLM. Content gap feels wide to me
so that's why I take looooooooooooong breaks.

@Alleo
As I said, the content itself has some problems in it's longevity and some of those problems have been accentuated by the devs caving to playerbase requests. While I agree that it sucks never getting a primal mount, I think that the totem exchange pushed things too far, I can't blame only the devs for caving to this request however because that's what we asked without understanding full well what it would lead, which imho is a problem in many QoL I've seen.
Also I've already said that I don't agree with the spacing out of content and how while not a real problem for the time being it's a start that might actually evolve in what I fear beign the broken shore experience of legion.

That said I want ppl to reflect that how you tackle the content it's your own buisness and not necessarely a game problem, I say this since there have been many back and forth of ,good for you doing this or that, that honestly are nothing but flame baits while both side being right. Frankly I think both long standing players and returning/new/slower paced players could come together and agree to some points.
Duration of content really won't be one of them, but quality and replayability of it probably will

Besides everyone seems to agree that we would like to be given the choice on how to spend our time and not beign told that we did this because we worried you would feel too overwhelmed, as said Imho that's none of SE buisness how I decide to spend my time on the game

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Skalla = 300
Hell's Lid = 310

Optional Dungeon The Swallow's Compass = 330

There is no way they wont let people using fully upgraded Eureka gear for their left side not be able to do MSQ, given they have ilvl 360 accessories.

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Interesting, because these weren't the numbers I saw when I looked at my Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

That said I want ppl to reflect that how you tackle the content it's your own buisness and not necessarely a game problem, I say this since there have been many back and forth of ,good for you doing this or that, that honestly are nothing but flame baits while both side being right.

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For most of the time it is a problem of the player and not the game but if more and more people complain about lack of patch content and the devs seemingly feel the need to stretch one patch that much, I do wonder if its not starting to become a game problem which will hit those that are playing normal too.

But yeah I can totaly agree with the point about how they should not dictate how we spend our time. Lets hope that they dont do that stretch again. (I do not have a problem if some parts are stretched out a bit. 2-3 weeks later for example. But for me this patch has really overdone it.)

It does become a problem for normal players too if the request for faster reward goes asnwered too easy idd.
From my point of wiew SE is extremely sensitive to these complaints and have idd cut many aspects that took time in the game (some1 has to explain me why 90% of a season event reward should be handed me with the quests?) This has lead to the ever present shallow content imho.

july 3rd, yay

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Interesting, because these weren't the numbers I saw when I looked at my Duty Finder.

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Skalla drops 315 gear. Hell's Lid drops 325 gear. They are not going to make the ilvl min only 5 below the gear let alone 5 ilvls over the gear. Having the min ilvl that high would make no sense not is it the written ilvl in duty finder. I have no idea where you got these other numbers, but it wasn't from duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Instead of "forgetting" about the game, they're jaded things are being purposely delayed to keep them subscribed.

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Actually, this is pretty much exactly what SE is doing. They're delaying content to keep people subscribed. That was basically what I wrote. What I was also doing was DEFENDING the practice. It is necessary, because there is only so much the developers can put out within a space of time. While I concede that HoH and/or Eureka: Pagos might have more replayability than the current content, it's inevitable that white space is going to show up somewhere. It is in the interests of both SE AND the playerbase that that white space be divided into smaller chunks measured in weeks, rather than a single chunk measured in months. Even adding Eureka and HoH into the mix, I can guarantee there would be plenty of folks burnt out after months with no new content.

The game also offers plenty of opportunities to fill that space - if you're willing to take them. For crafters and gatherers, patch 4.3 added a new tier of equipment that many are likely still working on putting together and melding. A bunch of new Big Fish were added, as well. Crafting/gathering events in the form of new Custom Deliveries and the Namazu Beast Tribes provide these players with things to do as well. SE has provided more than enough content to fill the white space - if it is content that doesn't appeal to you, personally, well, no one can please everyone all the time.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Actually, this is pretty much exactly what SE is doing. They're delaying content to keep people subscribed. That was basically what I wrote. What I was also doing was DEFENDING the practice. It is necessary, because there is only so much the developers can put out within a space of time. While I concede that HoH and/or Eureka: Pagos might have more replayability than the current content, it's inevitable that white space is going to show up somewhere. It is in the interests of both SE AND the playerbase that that white space be divided into smaller chunks measured in weeks, rather than a single chunk measured in months. Even adding Eureka and HoH into the mix, I can guarantee there would be plenty of folks burnt out after months with no new content.

The game also offers plenty of opportunities to fill that space - if you're willing to take them. For crafters and gatherers, patch 4.3 added a new tier of equipment that many are likely still working on putting together and melding. A bunch of new Big Fish were added, as well. Crafting/gathering events in the form of new Custom Deliveries and the Namazu Beast Tribes provide these players with things to do as well. SE has provided more than enough content to fill the white space - if it is content that doesn't appeal to you, personally, well, no one can please everyone all the time.

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People are far more prone to enjoying content when they dictate the pace over a company trying to nickel and dime them. The response has been anything but beneficial or positive for SE. Jaded fans inevitably start looking elsewhere, and should they find something. You can lose them entirely. Yes, the devs can only produce so much content. Reception would be much better if they didn't delay it, especially with a six week gap between things. HoH easily alleviates that, then Pagos releases when people start getting a little tired. You can defend that system all you fancy, I think it's both frustrating and scummy, especially when Yoshida talks about taking breaks.

Those all take less than a week to complete sans the Namazu, which are time locked. This has been the whole point. Even at a more gradual pace, what released in 4.2 simply doesn't last six weeks. Had they bumped 4.35 to four, you could make a case.

oops..wrong thread

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Actually, this is pretty much exactly what SE is doing. They're delaying content to keep people subscribed.

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Then give us a timeline of release dates. I'm not saying the whole schedule from 4.0 launch to the end of 4.x but if they release, say, patch 4.3 and know they will have three major parts they will release, give us those dates when the patch drops. since its not being gated for development reasons, they should be able to do that... but even if there is a possibility of a small delay, give us a ballpark of like two weeks.

I don't really think that spreading the content is really meant to keep ppl subbed.
If you think about it most ppl that aren't really interested in the game will simply play the release of the expansion and then resub during the final patch.
If they really intend to use this as a way to keep ppl subbed, well it's dumb. The game is too much built so that late comers can catch up at which point doing what I've said it's not really something out of the ordinary.

No let's be brutal if they really think that they can spread content this much, without beign any real punishment for ppl if they don't stay subbed, they just better quit the buisness altogether