Stablizing the market(stop undercutting everyone people!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xianghua

Thing you're not getting Myrhn. Is the is no profit to begin with regardless if you farm it or buy it. It should be

Item cost 50k to make and sells for 75k

you buy items = 25k profit
you farm items =75k profit

how it is though is items cost 75k to make and item sells for 50k

Buying = -25k
Farming = 50k
Selling materials = 75k

Whats the point of making the items at all if you lose money by doing so?

---

this right here sums up alot of what im saying too


why bother crafting at all if this is how tings are?


If crafters dont make money, they will stop making gear
they will stop buying mats
then the gatherers and farmers wont have anyone buying anything from them
and then everything collapses as everyone has to become self sufficient all the way since no one uses the market anymore cuz its a money pit where you cant earn anything


im not saying undercutting needs to stop, what im saying is something needs to be done between the farming/crafting end of things in order to fix whats going on before it gets worse and the economy does collapse



also, golden tools is not the main reason its happening, this has slowly been slipping towards this since before then
and on the same level, IF golden tools were the cause, the gathering end of mats would be massively dipping in price too as people farm those achievments, but thats not happening because thats not the main issue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

this right here sums up alot of what im saying too


why bother crafting at all if this is how tings are?


If crafters dont make money, they will stop making gear
they will stop buying mats
then the gatherers and farmers wont have anyone buying anything from them
and then everything collapses as everyone has to become self sufficient all the way since no one uses the market anymore cuz its a money pit where you cant earn anything


im not saying undercutting needs to stop, what im saying is something needs to be done between the farming/crafting end of things in order to fix whats going on before it gets worse and the economy does collapse



also, golden tools is not the main reason its happening, this has slowly been slipping towards this since before then
and on the same level, IF golden tools were the cause, the gathering end of mats would be massively dipping in price too as people farm those achievments, but thats not happening because thats not the main issue

---

Maybe their selling it because they think ALL of it's too expensive? Who the hell knows? Only the person making it knows. Maybe they gathered all their crap and for them, it's really only worth X amount and not the higher amount someone else feels it's worth. Again Point Of View Vedis POV brother is all I can say. You can be grrrrr or just /facepalm about it but you're only going to give yourself an ulcer at this rate lol. You can only do what you can do. ;)

There is allways a drawback went buying all the materials, if buying all mats u don't make profit, move to another stuff that can make a profit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrhn

There is allways a drawback went buying all the materials, if buying all mats u don't make profit, move to another stuff that can make a profit.

---

thats not the problem im looking at

why bother making anything at all when the raw mats you farm sell for more then anything you can make

that in itself is a problem thats starting to majorly occur, and im looking at it across the board, i do all 8 crafts and i see it happening with over 90% of the items now.


even farmers may be seeing it at this point, farm your own mats for profit on what you make? hell why bother making anything at all, just sell the mats, if/when they sell, you profit more then anything you can make with them

I don't see that much on my server but one question.... we talking about raw materials(logs, skin, karakul fleece) or the sub materiall(lumber, leather, yarn)? If is for the sub materials for me is understandable why they cost more.

Basicly, in MMOs, worth comes down to farming. The more onerous, the more people want to pay to not do onerous crap and get on with the good stuff. If it's enjoyable, easy, convenient, and/or short then one really can't really ask a high price as the market will have become saturated and price will gravitate towards vendor trash +tax.

lol reason why item are so low is because actually getting that item is easy to get so why not undercut others who over price it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrhn

I don't see that much on my server but one question.... we talking about raw materials(logs, skin, karakul fleece) or the sub materiall(lumber, leather, yarn)? If is for the sub materials for me is understandable why they cost more.

---

Let me give you a basic rundown of whats happening using a fictional example(since i cant give you numbers cuz i cant check servers yet)


A log cost 5k

The lumber cost 3k

The item 5 of those lumbers make(which cost 15k to make) sells for 5k too....


so this is what we see

selling raw mats: 25k
selling the material it makes: 15k
selling the item that they make: 5k

the further down the line you go the more money you lose out on because only the raw materials sell for a profit at that point
and why make anything when you lose out on what you can earn by selling it raw

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

Let me give you a basic rundown of whats happening using a fictional example(since i cant give you numbers cuz i cant check servers yet)


A log cost 5k

The lumber cost 3k

The item 5 of those lumbers make(which cost 15k to make) sells for 5k too....


so this is what we see

selling raw mats: 25k
selling the material it makes: 15k
selling the item that they make: 5k

the further down the line you go the more money you lose out on because only the raw materials sell for a profit at that point
and why make anything when you lose out on what you can earn by selling it raw

---

So, effectively, exp = gil.

Part of the value of the raw materials is the simplicity it has in starting up a craft to be done to gain exp. When the potential for exp the use for it in grinding is used up in the first rounds (log becomes lumber) then the price drops because, to get the same amount of exp, you would have to find other things to combine with it and the subsequent synth after the initial one (like lumber being used for a bow) is more expensive than the original log and entails more hassle with managing different items (sometimes for different DoHs).

In this case, most people don't like what they're going to use for the lumber, instead sell the lumber to make some gil back, and then buy up more logs with disposable income to continue grinding.

So not only is exp = gil, but convenience = gil. When one of those is reduced, then the item's value suffers for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jashynvald

So, effectively, exp = gil.

Part of the value of the raw materials is the simplicity it has in starting up a craft to be done to gain exp. When the potential for exp the use for it in grinding is used up in the first rounds (log becomes lumber) then the price drops because, to get the same amount of exp, you would have to find other things to combine with it and the subsequent synth after the initial one (like lumber being used for a bow) is more expensive than the original log and entails more hassle with managing different items (sometimes for different DoHs).

In this case, most people don't like what they're going to use for the lumber, instead sell the lumber to make some gil back, and then buy up more logs with disposable income to continue grinding.

So not only is exp = gil, but convenience = gil. When one of those is reduced, then the item's value suffers for it.

---

this has nothing to do with exp, at all

are you gonna tell me? seriously? that im doing this for exp?

this is an issue regardless of level, its plain just not worth it to craft anymore if people are going to make all items worth less then the value of what it takes to make them


im not looking at grinding recipes, im looking at ALL recipes and the trend its taking

I actually have never really bothered to sell anything. For a time period I sold Hart and Crab for 10k just to open the market to lower players. Aside from that I just make stuff for free for people I know. If I have the mats I even provide them. To me there is economy and there is also community. But I think a large function of this phenomena is that people are working on luminary tools. And a lot of players are working on multiples at once (mining and armorer.) From this standpoint they are making a profit.

Either way, it'll simmer down over time.

To be honest, I'm in favor of a socialist economy in MMOs. Hell, we might as well REALLY live in a fantasy world.

There's a few things you can do.

If you have the items you wish to sell now, and have spent X amount of gil on the materials to craft it.

1. Cut your loses and sell the item for lower value.
2. Wait it out and hope the market value for the item rises again.

Problem with the second one is if the materials prices happens to also drop in value, then that could also lead to the possibility of the finished item to drop even more in price.

There is no sense in crafting anything that makes you lose gil if you aren't doing it for the EXP, or as a gift for someone. No sense telling people to stop undercutting it either.

Undercutting can be several factors, but most common is an abundant supply with no demand. Such as items that can be obtained from guildleves, treasure chest, and drops. Those items would be flooded in the market, and everyone can easily obtain them.

Saying the value of the equipment should be solely based on the value of the materials, which is arbitrarily decided by the DoL merchants, is crazy. Need to consider the value of the equipment compare to others. Such as if an item is priced 100k but a player can obtain a similar item or better for less or even "free" by doing quest, then the value of the 100k item would drop in price.

A lot of times the material can be more costly than the end equipment also because of what the material can be used for. However, if you there isn't any demand for the materials, eventually the DoL people will realize and lower the price accordingly. Thus, the materials cost will be more closely reflected to the potential equipment it can become.

I said before, FFXI had a lot of this happen to their equipments.
Just take a look a material like Dhalmel Leather A good portion of the things it can be crafted into is made as a lost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lackofwords

There's a few things you can do.
Undercutting can be several factors, but most common is an abundant supply with no demand.

---

But the problem is, we're not investors, marketing agents, etc. People don't get economics very well in this game. Some people would rather have fast money than more money, so they undercut--not because there's a higher supply than demand, just because they want theirs to be listed at the top and sold 3 hours earlier than it otherwise would have. It doesn't matter if it's an item that sells 40 times a day or two times a day. Then some people don't read the price history and match that price, and someone undercuts it again. At least, that's the best I can tell.

This is made worse by the abundance of materials, because those who farm them are willing to sell so much lower than those who don't.

Someone nailed it on the head earlier. It all comes down to exp. You're paying for exp, or you're paying for [item] of the Luminary. I don't like it, but what am I to do?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

this has nothing to do with exp, at all

are you gonna tell me? seriously? that im doing this for exp?

this is an issue regardless of level, its plain just not worth it to craft anymore if people are going to make all items worth less then the value of what it takes to make them


im not looking at grinding recipes, im looking at ALL recipes and the trend its taking

---

I'm not saying it's a good trend, but that's part of the thought process when people evaluate what to pay for and it does explain why (or at least part of why) raw mats are so damn expensive compared to the already processed ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mychael

Some people would rather have fast money than more money, so they undercut--not because there's a higher supply than demand, just because they want theirs to be listed at the top and sold 3 hours earlier than it otherwise would have. It doesn't matter if it's an item that sells 40 times a day or two times a day.

---

Yes, there are few players who just wants to get rid of their gear quickly. The only market that is successful is Ul'dah, and it's retainer floor population packed 24/7. The only options for people trying to get into the market who aren't already on the market floor are the stalls. Those are just by lease for a day, which forces the player to pretty much sell as much as possible as fast as possible.

However, those merchants shouldn't hurt the larger economy. Such as, if the demand is really as high as it is, then a merchant who sells a small stock of equipment, would not affect the larger stockpile of equipment still for sale. You might see a small dip in the sale price history, and then it'll always quickly return to it's median value. (Honey as example from FFXI)

The people who hurt the market are the people with large enough supplies to influence the market. Such as, if a merchant is able to pump out 100+ of the same equipment and wants to get rid of it all for cheap so he can produce more of the same thing, that'll obviously hurt the value of the item. Luminary could fuel the problem of this particular case.

Alternatively, if you are extremely aggressive, you could just buy out all those cheap stock and resell it at your own value. That is if you truly believe that the supplier(s) is just a selling fast for a quick buck. Such as if you see something really cheap, like lanolin selling for 100 on the Market Wards (lanolin sells back to an NPC for 96) you can buy out that stock with very minimal risk of losing gil. (At most 4gil per piece if it doesn't sell on the wards)

So... right now... don't craft and sell? Ya it seem be dumb... but if you aren't going for xp.... obv yo uneed to find another way to make gil.

Time to learn to gather!

And really, like XI the HQ were the only profit..... I buy +1's for melding

I buy cheap shit retards sell, and SB it into awesome materia....

I make shit for my friends, they give me raw materials.

The worst bank breaker for me is the catalyst since I'm not high enough to proc the trait to get em at the grade5 areas.

Coethras, lots of money in there, it's not part of the luminary.



P.S. plz link me where DoH = gil? I swear it was just to craft items. Just like anima, and hate meters.... don't like it? Don't use it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geesus

As great as this may sound, what you consider a "fair price" may not be what someone else considers fair. It's a POV and as we all have seen if you have been on these forums at ALL is, people are pretty damn defensive with their "POVs". ;)

---

I see your point. xD
What I mean is, we should all decide what a fair price is based off of how they are obtained. Then compare them with the MW prices.
THEN, we share our prices with eachother and come up with a fair price. I'm sure not everyone would be pleased though. xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bowen

I see your point. xD
What I mean is, we should all decide what a fair price is based off of how they are obtained. Then compare them with the MW prices.
THEN, we share our prices with eachother and come up with a fair price. I'm sure not everyone would be pleased though. xD

---

This is actually a cartel. This is what oil companies do. No, this should not be done - it allows those who are in production to dictate the market which is an absolutely horrid prospect. Why not let people sell for that which they deem to be fair?

Look at it this way: someone can farm their own mats and and produce their own goods, thus making a 30k profit with only time being their investment. This means that 30k could potentially be the price and can be done without overhead. On the other hand, another player may not be able to farm and must sell the same item for 60k in order to achieve the same profit. There is nothing wrong with that. Yes, one player may have the resources to do it (time) while another may not. Does that mean they should be penalized and have to conform to a cartel mentality? You can argue that by being in a cartel the player would be making more money, however, what if they feel 60k is too much and that 30k is the fair price? Should they be forced to accept your viewpoint? If you answer "yes" then you must also be willing to do the same. See the problem here?

Edit: This reasoning is based on the CI which dictates that one "ought only to act according maxims that one would deem universally accepted."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yves

This is actually a cartel. This is what oil companies do. No, this should not be done - it allows those who are in production to dictate the market which is an absolutely horrid prospect. Why not let people sell for that which they deem to be fair?

Look at it this way: someone can farm their own mats and and produce their own goods, thus making a 30k profit with only time being their investment. This means that 30k could potentially be the price and can be done without overhead. On the other hand, another player may not be able to farm and must sell the same item for 60k in order to achieve the same profit. There is nothing wrong with that. Yes, one player may have the resources to do it (time) while another may not. Does that mean they should be penalized and have to conform to a cartel mentality? You can argue that by being in a cartel the player would be making more money, however, what if they feel 60k is too much and that 30k is the fair price? Should they be forced to accept your viewpoint? If you answer "yes" then you must also be willing to do the same. See the problem here?

Edit: This reasoning is based on the CI which dictates that one "ought only to act according maxims that one would deem universally accepted."

---

using your example in the current issue

player a who farms his own mats is dumb for making the item to sell, he coulda sold the mats for 60k, but he chose to make the item and thus his effort becomes 30k

while player b who bought all the mats, can only sell it if he takes a massive loss, thus making it not worth doing it at all, its imposible for him to profit in the given situation no matter what he does

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

using your example in the current issue

player a who farms his own mats is dumb for making the item to sell, he coulda sold the mats for 60k, but he chose to make the item and thus his effort becomes 30k

while player b who bought all the mats, can only sell it if he takes a massive loss, thus making it not worth doing it at all, its imposible for him to profit in the given situation no matter what he does

---

this was my point earlier in the thread when i responded to someone who said you aren't suppose to profit from crafting or something like that,lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

this was my point earlier in the thread when i responded to someone who said you aren't suppose to profit from crafting or something like that,lol.

---

if your grinding maybe your not supposed to profit but my whole point is this isnt about grinding, its about making stuff in general

and when this situation continues to get worse, itl get to the point where if you dont have a crafter to make the gear fot you, or you are not one yourself, the gear will be imposible to get since no one will be making it any more since you cant make money off it.


it is the equivilent to there being nothing to do at level 50 for combat, you take away the reason to do it and whats left

Fine.
/ignore me D:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

using your example in the current issue

player a who farms his own mats is dumb for making the item to sell, he coulda sold the mats for 60k, but he chose to make the item and thus his effort becomes 30k

while player b who bought all the mats, can only sell it if he takes a massive loss, thus making it not worth doing it at all, its imposible for him to profit in the given situation no matter what he does

---

this was my point earlier in the thread when i responded to someone who said you aren't suppose to profit from crafting or something like that,lol.

---

But Vedis it's not the game/community's issue that 1 can do and 1 cannot do.

Ok let's take a step back... why do you craft? For gil? For XP? Why?
To answer myself, I do it for gil tbh. The XP is a bonus and fortunately or unfortunately depending how you look at it, what I "need" in order to make better items for more gil.

If someone is unwilling to take the time to gather their own mats to craft then so be it but you can't shouldn't say that they should not be "punished" in a way because they don't want to do what hardcore crafters/gathers do.

It's a game and I don't mean XIV I mean markets whether real or not. Play it or you lose out. It may seem unfair and it's happened plenty to me. I either just say screw it and NPC it OR I might stay logged in selling from my bazaar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geesus

But Vedis it's not the game/community's issue that 1 can do and 1 cannot do.

Ok let's take a step back... why do you craft? For gil? For XP? Why?
To answer myself, I do it for gil tbh. The XP is a bonus and fortunately or unfortunately depending how you look at it, what I "need" in order to make better items for more gil.

If someone is unwilling to take the time to gather their own mats to craft then so be it but you can't shouldn't say that they should not be "punished" in a way because they don't want to do what hardcore crafters/gathers do.

It's a game and I don't mean XIV I mean markets whether real or not. Play it or you lose out. It may seem unfair and it's happened plenty to me. I either just say screw it and NPC it OR I might stay logged in selling from my bazaar.

---

i dont think you are understanding this at all

people who do not gather their own mats are not being punished
crafters in general are being punished by the way they are acting
again, if you gather your own materials, and craft them into something else, you make LESS money then if you sold what you farmed, making crafting for any kind of profit utterly imposible, it has nothing to do with buying the material;s(you just use the material prices as the baseline for comparison)


it IS a community problem, its the community itself choosing to do this to themselves at this point

Hello,

New to crafting here, but have done a lot of crafting in FFXI (if that helps).

I sympathize with the hardship that crafters can have in crafting items. And I too find it a bit amusing that raw materials sell for so much more than a final product.

But I think the reality is that we need to shift our expectations of what sells and does not sell to not match our pre-conceived notions, but rather, face 'reality' as it is in Eorzea.

Raw Materia A sells for more than Finished Product A

This is a reality, so do not go in expecting to turn a profit by crafting the raw material into a product. It may be nice that you could do it, but if no one wants it, what is the point?

I could go to the store and buy Truffles, and Caviar, and HP Sauce. All nice on their own, but if I mix them together and put them between two pieces of bread, I would be unlikely to sell it for a profit.

The sad/funny reality is that in Eorzea, raw materials are worth more than most things they could be turned into. Once we accept this then it is 'merely' a matter of finding something (anything) that sells for more than cost of goods.

As a big eared friend of mine would say: There is profit to be made out there. You just have to find it.

Also that demand for finished items is incredibly low. By now most people who are still playing have multiple crafts to 50 (or at least friends who do.) This means they can get free gear. So the option is likely to price however you wish and make no money or price low enough to entice window shoppers who will spend a couple of bucks if the price is right while eating a potential loss. Cobalt armor? I can't think of a single finished item that people don't have immediate access to.

I know that you are saying this is a community issue but think about it: more than half of the players on Besaid are launch players - most shells are self-sufficient. If anything, the fact that the materials are selling may be an indicator that people are leveling missing crafts (honestly, there isn't much left to do now.) This may be more of a problem of the game itself (as it stands today) than the community. I can't blame the community for not buying stuff they don't need.

Random sidenote: I actually will sometimes impulse buy just to save a few minutes but the price has to be good to warrant it.

While I agree with the 'dude, why all the undercutting?' ideals here's a couple reasons I know it's happening.

1. People don't like farming/gathering mats...and/or they don't have the time.
In my quest to earn my golden hatchet (just knocked out grade 5 Black Shroud today :D ), I obtained stacks of one item I didn't even realize sold for close to 10K each on my server. They are SUPER easy to get...yet no one takes the time to farm them. But let me note: in order for me to go back and gather this item, I have to NOT work on my tool achievement/gain exp. So a lot of people just simply don't gather at that grade anymore. This is why items from that node sell for good money. (on my server)

2. People who are exping/grinding for golden tools in crafting who undercut to sell quick to minimize their losses.
The trick for other crafters is to NOT sell the grind stuff. Let the people leveling up sell it.

3. Craft/sell in small batches...or at least sell in small batches.
My main craft is cul...you can stop giggling now. And I DO cook food to sell...seriously, stop laughing :P. Anyway, with CUL you get forced into buying mats from NPC's at times/farming your own stuff/begging ls mates for stuff. But it hasn't been hard for me to profit as CUL (partially because there are very few actively crafting) but also because I craft small batches, with mats I have and don't overkill the market. The majority of the gil I have came from CUL profits. So it is possible.

- Another example of small batch crafting.
Now I'm leveling Woodworking. I still find selling in small batches (2-4 stacks/items) at a time, works best. Lets face it, if there are even 10 rank 50 Weavers on your server all making Woolen Bliauds, and they each fill both retainers full of bliauds to sell... that's at least 80 on the market. Of Course undercutting and price dropping is going to happen... it's just a supply/demand thing. If however, each weaver limited themselves to selling 1-2 at a time, well that drops it from 80ish to closer to 10-20ish.

4. As a rank 50 Craftsman, check the wards for items that are missing that you can craft cheaply and sell.
Be flexible, you'll make money. Even if that means selling rank 20 gear for a smaller, but steady profit stream. (I'm only a rank 31 Woodworker and I can consistantly sell several items I exp on for MORE than market value on my server). But that's because the rank 50 woodworkers don't think to craft rank 30ish items on my server.

STOP Selling STuff for a price you can get ppl to buy it from you for, BECAUSE I want ppl to buy it from me at a HIGHER price....

Geeze ppl can't you get this through your thivk skulls...it's all about ME, screw free market I needs mah gils!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JakeRoon

STOP Selling STuff for a price you can get ppl to buy it from you for, BECAUSE I want ppl to buy it from me at a HIGHER price....

Geeze ppl can't you get this through your thivk skulls...it's all about ME, screw free market I needs mah gils!

---

Umadbro?

"Free market" is a system where prices are determined by supply and demand.

Not because Herp Derp doesn't want to wait his turn and tries to jump the list. In real life, this would be a "discount." The price would more-or-less remain the same after Herp Derp sold his 5 stacks of interwebz. One of the problems is that no one lets it return. Herp sells his for 1k cheaper. Derp sells his for 2k cheaper. So on, and only a few people are brave enough to say, "No way, this item is worth way more than that!" Even so, they can't stop other people. This isn't real money, so people are much more willing to toss it away if it means they get it faster. Seriously, if you can drive to the other side of a city (say, 45 minutes...) to get to a store where you notice the camera you want is $200 instead of $230... would you do it? Most people would, because that ~13% makes a big difference. Time is money, but there are limits on that. Besides, you personally don't dedicate any more/less time to making more by not undercutting; you can just buy moar thingz fastar.

The next problem is that, instead of cutting the price by 5-15%, people are undercutting by as much as 40% sometimes.

A lot of problems come from the fact that there is unlimited harvesting. In real life, veins of ore run out, forests become deforested, and fish eventually become extinct if over-harvested. There are inherent costs in logging/mining/fishing in real life; transportation (preservation, in the case of fish), upkeep of tools (no, 500 gil for a blacksmith to repair your tool doesn't make up for it), etc. You can only carry so much wood at a time--even if it's a wagon full, I seriously doubt that you can fit 10 stacks of logs in a wagon, given that 10 stacks means 990 logs. That's one hell of a wagon. I wish there were limits on how much someone could farm, but that would be a damper to people trying to level DoLs, and I don't want to see the fatigue system again. :/

The next problem is that there is little/no use for lower-level gear these days. It would be possible for SE to include higher-level recipes that use lower-level finished products as ingredients, as with the [item=4070308]Crab Bow[/item]. Because of this, [item=4070307]Oak Composite Bow[/item]s retain value despite being obsolete as equipment.

Another problem is the _______ of the Luminary system. In a real world, people would only gather as much lumber/ore/etc. as they could possibly sell; in-game and real life alike, there is no "use" for raw materials outside of crafting, which makes a product that people need. However, by making a goal of gathering absurdly high numbers of raw materials, SE has caused a huge influx that should never have happened (in addition to the already unrealistic surplus that comes from leveling DoLs). The price of raw materials gathered stays somewhat higher despite this because they can be used for other Luminary items. However, that can't be said for the DoH tools, because there is nowhere for those finished products to go.

A partial fix would be to make finished products recyclable. [Finished Oak Product]->Wind Crystal = Pile of Oak Chips. These [item=10008501]Oak Chips[/item] already exist, and have some uses in tanning and smoking foods. Expand that; make them necessary for blacksmithing and goldsmithing, to stoke the fire. +1 chips could be yet another way to increase HQ rate. Make iron products desynth into scrap metal, and give it some use across other fields. Items produced by goldsmiths could be put into a mortar/pestle to create reagents (ground crystals, gold shavings) for Alchemists. Food could be converted into bait for fishing, and potions into something else, but part of Cul/Alc's nature is that their items are consumable, so they won't have the same magnitude of surplus that other DoHs face.

The largest problem is the lack of necessity for items. There's no feasible way to guarantee that there will always be players of the right levels, jobs, and facing the appropriate situations to use items; and I highly doubt SE will be willing to try another cap (fatigue ftl) on the number of items that can be harvested as it provided a huge barrier (necessary, imo, but I digress) to the leveling of DoLs, it seems to me like the best way would be to make uses for the potentially useless items.

Why the "£$¬%^&* did I wrote so much?

tl;dr: A lot of problems with the economy in my eyes. I think there should be a cap on how much of an item can be gathered, but that prevents DoLs from leveling so it can't happen. My idea: make uses for finished products that involve converting them into materials for other Disciplines, or using the finished product in a new recipe.

Maybe it can be put like this:
Source of the problem: Unlimited Free Natural Resources (not including cost of time spent).
Solution: Limit the amount of natural resources available

Side-Effect: How to obtain the resources?
A whole new mechanism for obtaining resources will need to be implemented. Perhaps a 'license' model where everyone can buy a license (ala leve) to obtain permission to gather resources. If the only method of getting raw materials was through levequests, then there would be a limit (due to # of leves granted per day) on resource intake. This can give SE a way to manage the economy through this.

Side-effect: How to level
A whole new model on levelling will have to be done. If levelling (granted by XP) can be balanced so it is possible to do it via levequests and job specific quests at a comprable rate, then it removes the need to excessively gather.

Side-effect: Getting those achievements
The requirements for achievements could be adjusted to reflect the new model (this really should be the most minor point, as achievements SHOULD be a little nice something, but not a game-balance affecting something).



This will then result in a lack of excessive input into the economy of natural resources. For example, I gathered 15 STACKS of wood as I was doing Botany. Most of which is not needed (I levelled up Carpentry and did not need at least 10 stacks of wood). Therefore that excess 10 stacks is taking up space (and could be money to help me fund something else). Therefore selling it at 50% off is better than me being poor or it taking up space (note: not doing that, as I hope the price goes back to normal, but it's a possibility).

If the input can be restricted/controlled, then everything that builds upon that can also be managed, allowing for a more predictable (and sane) economy.

Thank you.

Something like what your describing isn't a bad idea at all. The problem becomes that with that kind of system you actually will have more rewarding content but ultimately less content. In a game that already struggles to have things to consistently do this is a bad thing.

Also, add to boot that most people will stop gathering meaning that crafters will corner the market and then we have a whole new problem on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Honestly, this whole conversation is starting to border on people either being free market or not. Besides, what the hell are people even going to spend gil on right now?

Typically I try and stick with synthesis that sell to the NPC about the same as the cost to make them, it's been working out so far. Then I just craft certain items that sell fast and are cheap to make in order to supplement the cost of crafting. There are going to be certain classes that are just expensive to level, in that case I'll switch over to leves. But the way things are now seem to be fine. If anything, gatherer's just need to stop pricing so high.

the market is naturally going to flood with mats and raw material even more so now that achievements are a thing.

I mean, good GOD the amount of ore and catalysts I've been getting just trying to get the 1k in Horizon....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asmeret

Typically I try and stick with synthesis that sell to the NPC about the same as the cost to make them, it's been working out so far. Then I just craft certain items that sell fast and are cheap to make in order to supplement the cost of crafting. There are going to be certain classes that are just expensive to level, in that case I'll switch over to leves. But the way things are now seem to be fine. If anything, gatherer's just need to stop pricing so high.

---

This actually takes items out of the market and adds more gil, so really all you're doing is causing more inflation every time you do this. Not really a good way to "stabilize the economy." ; - ;

Agree with OP. I crafted tomato pies. If you are to buy all items from NPC, it costs 2k a pie to make. Some items are farmable, so that would cut some costs to 1.8 k a pie.

I've seen it selling for 1.5 k each, so I just gave up and traded it in for seals.

Another good example is Materia. It is based on demand, therefore Tier III is generally more expensive than IV on some. Tier I and II are useless. SE should completelly remove Tier I and II since noone is bothering to meld gear under lvl 50 classes anymore.

Let me guess, "it will be fixed in 2.0"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mychael

So wait, if I produce cars for a living, I should start by branching my company to mine its own ore and smelt it?

---

Henry Ford did exactly that for many years. He also owned rubber plantations for his tires, and so on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abauge_Goga

Let me guess, "it will be fixed in 2.0"

---

If more people played this game, that phrase would be a meme by now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mychael

This actually takes items out of the market and adds more gil, so really all you're doing is causing more inflation every time you do this. Not really a good way to "stabilize the economy." ; - ;

---

I never said it was a way to stabilize the economy. I said this is what I do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Masamune1004

If more people played this game, that phrase would be a meme by now.

---

It's already a meme

Here is my 1/2 gil.
I'm making 3000 "whatever" for the achievement.
I don't have the inventory to hold it.
It's "wrong" to undercut to sell it,
It ruins the economy to vendor it.
Oh morals, how you stab at my soul...