Final Fantasy 14 App

So.... A sub fee to ffxiv with 8 extra retainers and the premium companion app is $33 a month. Do people realise they could start a second account for that kind of money, getting 8 new characters that they can befriend and use them and their retainers as storage mules, get the recruit a friend campaign rewards off them and it will actually cost you $9 less than this crap?

Aaaand the line's been pushed once again. It's all part of the long road of microtransactions, of extra retainers, of glamours/ emotes etc sold on the mog station, of ingame emotes attached to 100+ dollar figurines, of ingame outfits linked to fanfest streams. It's absolutely sickening and shows the lack of respect that SE has for their playerbase and for themselves. What happened to paying only a subscription fee to allow us equal access to all ingame content? Do they realise that having extra inventory space and retainers allows people, and crafters especially, to hoard and sell more items? Thus impacting the game economy itself?

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Originally Posted by ValentineSnow

So.... A sub fee to ffxiv with 8 extra retainers and the premium companion app is $33 a month. Do people realise they could start a second account for that kind of money, getting 8 new characters that they can befriend and use them and their retainers as storage mules, get the recruit a friend campaign rewards off them and it will actually cost you $9 less than this crap?

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I'd be surprised if most pay for any extra retainers, much less 8 of them.

So while that's a valid point for those that do essentially min/max their account and the money spent on it, I don't think it applies to as many players as you might be assuming...which means less people care about it than you might be assuming.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Companies always start small before going too far with it. Happens every single time. Also, they want to charge players a premium fee and on top of it microtransactions, insane.

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Microtransactions have been in this game, in the current form, for something like 4 years now. This isn't new, and outside of this new app hasn't significantly changed in its approach. If we're on a slippery slope, it's a slow moving one.

Not realy pay to win cas my understanding was the moogle buys items at random so it would be rng if anything but idk correct me if im wrong

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Originally Posted by RubyCirha

Not realy pay to win cas my understanding was the moogle buys items at random so it would be rng if anything but idk correct me if im wrong

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You're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Friske

Aaaand the line's been pushed once again. It's all part of the long road of microtransactions, of extra retainers, of glamours/ emotes etc sold on the mog station, of ingame emotes attached to 100+ dollar figurines, of ingame outfits linked to fanfest streams. It's absolutely sickening and shows the lack of respect that SE has for their playerbase and for themselves. What happened to paying only a subscription fee to allow us equal access to all ingame content? Do they realise that having extra inventory space and retainers allows people, and crafters especially, to hoard and sell more items? Thus impacting the game economy itself?

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You mean the same players who use botting on gathering nodes for years now and SE never ban. The game became a P2W with a monthly sub.
A true non P2W game with a sub should only have the monthly sub cost, the cost of the expansions and base game and the only extra paid services should be things like character name change and server transfer which can't be in-game rewards.
What we have now? Dyes, skins, emotes, housing items, mounts and now a freaking app with a monthly sub (which is overpriced) which gives actual advantage in game.
I will not even discuss how SE little by little gauged the prices in Mog Station for things like mounts and emotes and how they started limiting those items from account wide to per character only.
They keep pushing the red lines. It will not be too long before people realise how they overdone it and how crossed the lines.
They keep adding items that should be in-game rewards from quests/achievements to the store and that with a high price as well.
And now a freaking sub based mobile app with special currencies and the obligation to log in every day just like any F2P game on mobile.

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Originally Posted by RubyCirha

Not realy pay to win cas my understanding was the moogle buys items at random so it would be rng if anything but idk correct me if im wrong

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It just lets you buy/sell the same way you can in-game, just a limited amount of times and while away from the computer/game client.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

And now a freaking sub based mobile app with special currencies and the obligation to log in every day just like any F2P game on mobile.

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Is it really sub based if you get 90% of what the app offers for free?

I mean, I'm not a fan of the pay side of it, but I also don't see what you get for paying as being all that extensive in terms of what is offered.

And by all means, if you feel you absolutely must login every day to list or buy from the MB that one extra time per day when you're not near your computer/game client, then have at it. That's totally going to have a massive impact on your gameplay experience.

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Originally Posted by Steviejd

You're wrong.

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Ok wow thanks for saying im wrong without even explaining why im wrong or how im wrong thanks for your rather rude correction

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Do you consider 70 extra slots (out of nearly 1k provided for free, and ones you can't craft from), being able to move things from retainers while away from the game, and being able to buy/sell a couple more times on the MB when away (you can also do this with the free version, just fewer times) to be that much of the game?

I'm personally not a fan of the premium cost/moogle coins part, but the extras you're talking about here seem exceptionally minor compared to what you get with the sub fee.

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Free, with the mirage shit, and i count the bag for shields => 1180 slots
7 retainer (so, now, before the freemium shitapp) = 1225 slots

MMORPG with sub system where more than half of storage slots are behind a paywall (and where other MMORPG make you pay once to get it definitely, FF does a sub system for it... so worse)

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Originally Posted by Berethos

It just lets you buy/sell the same way you can in-game, just a limited amount of times and while away from the computer/game

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Thank you for actually explaining and not just saying im wrong

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Originally Posted by Riardon

Y
A true non P2W game with a sub should only have the monthly sub cost, the cost of the expansions and base game and the only extra paid services should be things like character name change and server transfer which can't be in-game rewards.

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Dyes has been a thing in asian games since the 90's. It was the first item to become microtransactions.

Realistically, I'm willing to pay for the following:

A monthly sub at 5-15$/mo depending on type (I would not pay any money for a open world PvP game, nor one with permadeath)
I will pay an additional one-time amount to unlock all inventory slots as I need them.
I will pay an additional one-time amount to add a character, or change the look of an existing one.
I will pay a one-time amount to buy an expansion pack at retail price.

I will not pay more for a subscription to get any kind of P2W benefit.
I will not pay more to rent inventory space, items, mounts or glamour slots.
I will not pay one-time to rescue a character from permadeath, I will quit the game and not come back.
I will not pay one-time for cosmetic items (dyes, emotes, limited-time outfits) if they are consumable/destroyable. If I buy these, I want them to be available perpetually if I lose the item or create a new character.

Most MMO games figured out that renting inventory space is a cash cow, but they have yet to discover how many people quit the game because the inventory is too small. Yes some people are packrats/hoarders, and the developers need to recognize that if you don't provide a solution (eg the glamour dresser was kinda half-baked) to address the reason for the hoarding, people start going neurotic over having to throw things away because of sunk costs.

FFXIV however is not really that generous when it comes to space. It is for what you get for free, but other games realized that locking down the market beyond the subscription service was actually the better solution, as it destroys RMT's ability to operate in the open. So you charge people one-time for the additional inventory slots/pets/retainers/bank-space/housing-shop/etc, but put the ability to put anything on the store/market behind the basic monthly service charge.

Recurring charges are the quickest way to kill any MMO game, primarily because when people realize how much money they sink into something like FFXIV or Netflix, or Amazon Prime, Spotify or whatever other TV/Music/Game service they pay for, most people are only going to pay for one of these, and if Netflix is cheaper than the MMO, then the MMO is the first to go when money gets tight.

To be honest...
more than 700 euros in cash shop. (and dont count dyes, or wedding, nor retainer and the accoutn services (fantasia, serveur move etc )
up to 7 retainer for storage, not 1 time buy (as most, or maybe all F2P) but a subscription!
Now this.

And all ok with some "other are doing worse" and the most "it is optionnal, if you dont want, dont pay" (and the storage matter for many people ? "optionnal" )

What about adding 2, or 3 euros to the sub? but getting ALL for free. i mean [b]ALL|/B]
Probably, because it is easier to drain some people, like milking cow that moooh appilly while they are sucked, than to be honest...

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Originally Posted by Berethos

It just lets you buy/sell the same way you can in-game, just a limited amount of times and while away from the computer/game client.



Is it really sub based if you get 90% of what the app offers for free?

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90%?

You can organize your inventory and armory for free, chat, and get 1 kupo nut per day which you can use to purchase one thing from the MB.

Premium: Chat, inventory and armory organisation, organisation of your retainer and saddlebags, double the saddlebag, get one more retainer slot, 2 kupo nuts per day and more nuts that you can keep. And since you can only manage your retainers with premium this kinda hints that you can only use the retainer to retainer sending with premium too. Thats way more behind Premium than free.

Edit: They could have simply given us more inventory for the free version (not everyone will use the app) as an extra kind of inventory and let us buy maybe 2-3 things from MB and then have the premium version just having more amount that you can buy. (And the retainer slot) But putting both increases behind paywall is just sad.

If you use the App for free its just kinda another discord with an time planner and a once a day buy from the MB. I am just annoyed that they probably used our sub to create something that has most of it good stuff behind money.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

you forget that they talked about a moguri coin which is probably a premium currency too

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Oh I know, I wanted to have them out of it since we cant say it for sure but it would probably be naive to believe that they would not cost real money too..and since they said that more stuff might come for the coins..yeah not a good way.

you forget that they talked about a moguri coin which is probably a premium currency too

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

People calling the coins and nuts "pay to win" don't seem to understand the definition of the term.

Being able to remotely buy items does not give you a major advantage over non-paying players.

Pay to win would be something like offering Savage gear for real money.

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lol no, it is pay to win when it is coming to markets
also if they are locking basic features behind more fees like retainer to retainer organization? this is entering EA shadyness of DLC

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Originally Posted by Alleo

90%?

You can organize your inventory and armory for free, chat, and get 1 kupo nut per day which you can use to purchase something from the MB.
Premium: Chat, inventory and armory organisation, organisation of your retainer and saddlebags, double the saddlebag, get one more retainer slot, 2 kupo nuts per day and more nuts that you can keep. And since you can only manage your retainers with premium this kinda hints that you can only use the retainer to retainer sending with premium too. Thats way more behind Premium than free.

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Free:
Chat
Inventory
Armoury
1 Kupo Nut
Sync friends list
Plan events
Issue Invites
Configure Notifications

Premium:
All above
Chocobo Saddlebag management
Chocobo Saddlebag extra slots
Retainer management
1 Extra Kupo Nut
Allows 1 additional Retainer

I've taken the liberty of bolding the premium parts that might have a more significant impact on your gameplay experience. Maybe. If you're a hoarder and can't manage an inventory properly.

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Originally Posted by RubyCirha

Ok wow thanks for saying im wrong without even explaining why im wrong or how im wrong thanks for your rather rude correction

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You asked to be corrected if wrong so that's what I did, I was in the middle of typing why you were wrong but A. The information is everywhere at this point and B. someone gave a full answer 3 mins after I posted. I apologize if you found that rude.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

lol no, it is pay to win when it is coming to markets
also if they are locking basic features behind more fees like retainer to retainer organization? this is entering EA shadyness of DLC

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Oh noes! That 1 extra MB transaction a day is going to kill FFXIV!

Gimme a break.

To put it bluntly, this is absolutely disgraceful. This is starting to feel like a Free to Play cash grab game with a sub stuck on top. WoW is starting to look more and more attractive again. At least over there your sub gives you almost everything...

-50 characters, 11 alts per realm, free.
-You can make unlimited market board listings
-Free market board app, numerous websites for market board data
-Tons of bag space, a huge crafting material bag, ability to mail storage alts, free.
-Much smaller cash shop
-Ability to buy anything from the cash shop, even your sub, with ingame currency.

What's FF14's excuse? Enix isn't a small indie company nor is the game a cutting edge product, their servers and game engine quality are inferior to Blizzards which is a decade and a half old. I don't get it, why do we have to pay a vastly increased sub and not even get the same features other games hand out free? Very disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Oh I know, I wanted to have them out of it since we cant say it for sure but it would probably be naive to believe that they would not cost real money too..and since they said that more stuff might come for the coins..yeah not a good way.

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You are right though I'm feeling a bit on the salty side since they announced this right at the end and all it really soured my mood. I think I'll park myself in the lochs for the time beign

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Oh noes! That 1 extra MB transaction a day is going to kill FFXIV!

Gimme a break.

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found a white knight, gimmie a break you are blind to see problems.

this app is EA level of shadyness

From reddit and I whole heartedly agree.

"Sorry, we can't expand inventory space because oh no the servers can't handle it! Also we're expanding inventory space but only if you pay an extra fee on your already P2P game.

This is insulting."

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I am just annoyed that they probably used our sub to create something that has most of it good stuff behind money.

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They probably used the majority of our sub to fund the content and other QoL development in 4.3.

I'd also not be surprised if part of the premium fee on the mobile app is meant to recoup costs of developing the mobile app.

Never thought I'd find myself writing this but WoW is looking increasingly attractive.

I am already paying extra to have alts, I am already paying for an extra retainer, I'm not paying for this.
If they had simply given us more storage in-game (even locked behind a one off payment) alongside an in-game calendar, I'd have been happy. Adding a more complicated system along with a pay-wall just leaves a sour taste.
Amazing how much effort they can put in when there's hard cash involved, amazing how much storage we can have if we pay extra for it.

I'm feeling increasingly ripped-off and disillusioned with this game.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

They probably used the majority of our sub to fund the content and other QoL development in 4.3.

I'd also not be surprised if part of the premium fee on the mobile app is meant to recoup costs of developing the mobile app.

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BS!
They do not even put money into this game at the level they take in from people, then there is this more greed on top of it?

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

found a white knight, gimmie a break you are blind to see problems.

this app is EA level of shadyness

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They've got a long way to go to reach EA levels. Did you already forget about the lootbox issues with Star Wars Battlefront 2, and their long history of shadyness before that?

Also, I do see issues with it, just not the same issues most of you other whiners are seeing.

It's an app designed around what's accepted in Japanese culture, rather than a more world-wide approach to its features, which is going to cause friction. It's an extra cost that doesn't deliver a whole lot for that extra cost (despite what some claim, the premium features are not extensive, not game changing in the slightest - there's a real tempest in a teapot situation going on with that one). The moogle coins element does concern me, but I'm not going to cry and moan or even comment much until I know how they intend for it to work and what kind of limitations will or will not be in place.

But even though I have these problems with it, I also recognize that its impact on my gameplay experience will be negligible at best - I'll get the free version and get an extra lower cost teleportation spot.

Whoop. De. Freakin. Do.

If that makes me a white knight, then I'll be over here polishing my armor while you're busy making another complaint thread.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

BS!
They do not even put money into this game at the level they take in from people, then there is this more greed on top of it?

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The time spent on the content for the game in 4.3 was done for free?

Do the devs know that?

If you've got any more silly things to add, please hurry, I've got errands to run.

It's an inventory management app where you need to pay to manage retainer inventory.. which is where the overwhelming majority of your inventory space is. Even if you just have the two retainers.

Does the free version of this even really have a point aside from chatting? Inventory management that excludes most of your inventory unless you pay extra is a farce.

They can't fix all kinds of serious in game problems because of budget and server limitations, but they can afford to develop this shameless cash grab?

Yeah, no. Lets call this what it really is.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Oh noes! That 1 extra MB transaction a day is going to kill FFXIV!

Gimme a break.

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It's a slippery slope though. I think they're intentionally starting small so more people are OK with it. Like with politicians and the sweeping changes to policy. They do it a small bit at a time, bit by bit, so less people kick up a stink. But over time, it snowballs. I can't put it past Square Enix to do the same here. Renting retainers, etc (which I am a part of the problem as I rent 2, but that's to have each type of retainer venture covered, I won't go beyond that as it doesn't add more types of venture), the insane amounts of cash shop items (which again I'm contributing towards). But I draw the line here. I'm not even convinced I'm going to install this app at all, even the free version.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

I've taken the liberty of bolding the premium parts that might have a more significant impact on your gameplay experience. Maybe. If you're a hoarder and can't manage an inventory properly.

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So 8 things behind free version and 5 more things to use when you pay for it. (And lets be honest, these five points are probably those that are worth the most to the community. Since retainer management, more inventory through the saddle bags and theoretically even one more retainer which you can use to store and sell stuff are really interesting) If we say that the app can have 13 functions, you can only get to 8 without paying it. That is around 61% of the app and far away from your 90%. And this is only numbers and not just the importance of each function itself.

Also you bolded those that might have more impact. Interesting how those are all behind the paywall. Which is exactly what my post is about. You cant do 90% of the app for free and the most interesting ones are costing you money. How is that good?

Even more if you look at it in that way: You can chat and plan events outside of this app already thanks to stuff like discord. And you can also seemingly just chat with those that also own the app.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

They probably used the majority of our sub to fund the content and other QoL development in 4.3.

I'd also not be surprised if part of the premium fee on the mobile app is meant to recoup costs of developing the mobile app.

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You know whats also interesting? That WoW had an App too (they took it down recently as far as I know) and it was completely free.

Why even take the money do to something like that? This app was talked about for such a long time and probably needs staff to look and work on it. All of that is money. For a chat that you can already do with discord, invites that still need people online to do it. With MB that you can either do once a day or twice (or x often if they can be done with coins too..) The retainer management also makes only sense to me if you use that to sell stuff which you still can do only twice a day if you pay.

So we are left with increase of retainer and chocobo saddle. Did we really need an app for that? Couldnt they have taken all that money that is put into this and will be put into it and just increased inventory for all of us?

Honestly the april fool FF14 Go was much more interesting than this. (For me at least)

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Originally Posted by Berethos

They've got a long way to go to reach EA levels. Did you already forget about the lootbox issues with Star Wars Battlefront 2, and their long history of shadyness before that?

Also, I do see issues with it, just not the same issues most of you other whiners are seeing.

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Battlefront II is not a sub game. EA also reacted to that, whereas SE completely ignored all the questions about gathering and PvP botting to pitch us yet another cash grab in their sub game.

At this point, EA comparisons are pretty justified.

@Tridus pparently in Japan they don't have discord or something so from their point of wiew the app is very useful if that's true.

As for us ye the free app is pretty much worthless

If they can give a full breakdown of how this revenue will be used to help the game then I suppose it's not as bad. I'm worried that it's going to be used to fund other projects instead though.

People have decried microtransactions via Mogstation before, but other than retainers, those have been cosmetic. It poses no negative impact on players. This, however, poses an issue for those who can't afford to pay for premium + the Moogle Coins. There is an actual disparity there. This $5 app sub will provide a tangible in-game benefit to those who can cough up the fees. The retainer and teleport features feel fair, considering you still have to pay for the retainer when it unlocks. The saddlebag expansion for a sub fee feels like a cash grab. We already pay a sub and we need to pay an additional $5 to get a bag size increase. At least retainers can do ventures/sell. The saddlebag can only hold items. The organization features feel like they should count as QOL, with how needed they are, not bonus features we get via a paid app.Between retainers, a sub, Mog Coins, it adds up. It seems low of SE to make menial features part of a paid app, and restricting the MB to daily or pay.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

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Was calling the good folks here 'whiners' necessary? Don't turn this into reddit where insults are flung easily from left to right. I may not agree with certain things, but the concerns here are very valid. The devs are starting to get very greedy, and its hard to tell right now if it's the devs this time, or Square. It's a problem, especially as this is still a sub game...the additional costs on top of everything is overkill. I'd rather just spend that money in a gacha game. At least then I know I am getting something most of the time out of it.

Oh man if I can use my and update retainers...goodbye life

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Originally Posted by Alleo

So 8 things behind free version and 5 more things to use when you pay for it. (And lets be honest, these five points are probably those that are worth the most to the community. Since retainer management, more inventory through the saddle bags and theoretically even one more retainer which you can use to store and sell stuff are really interesting) If we say that the app can have 13 functions, you can only get to 8 without paying it. That is around 61% of the app and far away from your 90%. And this is only numbers and not just the importance of each function itself.

Also you bolded those that might have more impact. Interesting how those are all behind the paywall. Which is exactly what my post is about. You cant do 90% of the app for free and the most interesting ones are costing you money. How is that good?

Even more if you look at it in that way: You can chat and plan events outside of this app already thanks to stuff like discord. And you can also seemingly just chat with those that also own the app.

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It's worse than that if you look at what the free one can do: Inventory management excluding retainers and saddlebag. That's inventory management excluding the majority of your inventory.

Is managing a third of your inventory really a feature? Hell, is configuring notifications a feature, rather than something that's flat out expected as a minimum baseline requirement for a modern app?

In truth, the free version of the app is a demo version. Nothing more. The fact that you need a paid app to be able to directly move things between chocobo inventory and retainer inventory is a bleeping joke. That's a basic UI defect of the game they're not fixing except in a paywalled thing.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

@Tridus pparently in Japan they don't have discord or something so from their point of wiew the app is very useful if that's true.

As for us ye the free app is pretty much worthless

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I can see that, yeah. But it adds to the tone deaf-ness we keep seeing with their non Japanese players and goes back to why communication is an issue.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

lol no, it is pay to win when it is coming to markets
also if they are locking basic features behind more fees like retainer to retainer organization? this is entering EA shadyness of DLC

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I supposed the players are suppose to use the app with a sense of pride and accomplishment? Lol.

At this point, regardless of what the player's stance are, SE will still proceed with it and I guess it's safe to say that more will be coming further down the road... Unless the reddit comrades kick up enough of a storm like the whole EA drama.

I thought this game had reached the lowest of the low, but yoshi keep surpassing my expectations, well done, they have found a really good new scam.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

They've got a long way to go to reach EA levels.

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You appear to be rationalising that there isn't a problem because other companies are greedier and have done worse things. I don't agree.
I am sure there is worse out there, but that doesn't mean this isn't a greedy cash-grab that gives significant advantages to people willing to pay extra.