Seeing Square Enix in a new light. I am grateful for this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Canadane

To be fair, when FFXIV launched it wasn't exactly the most playable game.

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Yeah, so they shut the game down, completely overhauled it, and cut everyone's sub costs in half. Who does that?

Kudos to the OP.
With my experience over the years on a big number of sub and f2p games, I give XIV rank 1 for playability, polishness and battle balancing.

And about the cash shop, this is the fairest I ever saw. Almost everything there you can already have it in your account if you played 2.0 from the start. And the few exclusives aren't game breaking.

Sure the game isn't perfect, but I think all other devs and publishers in the world must look at XIV as an example on how to do things. Nuff said~

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Kudos to the OP.
With my experience over the years on a big number of sub and f2p games, I give XIV rank 1 for playability, polishness and battle balancing.

And about the cash shop, this is the fairest I ever saw. Almost everything there you can already have it in your account if you played 2.0 from the start. And the few exclusives aren't game breaking.

Sure the game isn't perfect, but I think all other devs and publishers in the world must look at XIV as an example on how to do things. Nuff said~

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Thanks for the kudos :P. For the record though, i gave tera benefit of the doubt and one last try today. I queued into an instance and the first thing before we even start the party leader asks everyone if they know the dungeon or not. Soon as i said no he kicked me from the duty. It saddens me they let that crap fly over in tera. I know here in ffxiv that would NOT and has NOT ever happened to me. The only justifiable time i could see it happening is if someone new joined a party finder that specifically said no newbies. Other wise the GM's over here in ff take that stuff very seriously and i love them for that. Keep in mind in tera there is no party finder its all random instance queuing like when you queue into a normal dungeon in ffxiv. It should be a place where you do not get kicked simply because your a first timer. I checked the forums over there only to hear the GM's don't care about this behaviour in their game. It was at this point i just gave up and deleted tera from my ps4 for good. I have no time in my life to have to deal with hassle to try to have fun in a game. I shouldn't have to try it should just come on its only. In ffxiv iv'e never had any trouble TRYING to have fun. I just get online and play without any issues and have fun.

I appreciate final fantasy for what it is and I'm glad it's here, but I also think the game is a shell of what it could be.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Well, that's a tough decision to make. I directly support some critical large systems used by millions of people at a time- you can't just go in and make improvements when you think there's a good opportunity. Changes - even no-brainer upgrades! - must be carefully considered, thought out, and tested if possible. Any hiccup or (God forbid) failure impacts thousands of people at a minimum, causing all kinds of financial and reputational harm. I don't envy the people who have to sign off on improvements to these systems in the slightest (though I'm super grateful they sign off on the changes I initiate of course :P). I imagine that SE does the best they can with band-aid fixes and performs the major risky changes during expansion launches- that's a long time to go when there's a pain point that your customers harp on about, but the risk of fixingit could make the wait preferable. The extra testing time is invaluable, you don't risk destabilizing your current codebase unexpectedly, and you don't waste players' sub time by having frequent outages. /IT rant over

I love this game, no lie. And I complain because I see how things could be better. I want to be able to steal my friend away from WoW into XIV, I want my SO to play more often than major content drops, I want to keep having fun and enjoying my time in Eorzea. Lately I have become very worried that I won't be able to even justify my own sub because SE seems to be too cautious or unwilling to change. SB should have tried to do more than be ARR v3 in my opinion. I'm glad there are people like OP who love the game too and find no or few flaws. I was like that when I started the game... everything was new and wonderful. Now that I've been here for 4+ years I want to see the game work on being better. It will never be "perfect" but it can be closer to that ideal than it currently is.

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I agree you will have to do bandaid fixes, But you don't keep that bandaid fix 2 + years, or even worse, keep putting new bandaid fixes on the original bandaid as time goes on, and never fixing the core.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

Thanks for the kudos :P. For the record though, i gave tera benefit of the doubt and one last try today. I queued into an instance and the first thing before we even start the party leader asks everyone if they know the dungeon or not. Soon as i said no he kicked me from the duty. It saddens me they let that crap fly over in tera. I know here in ffxiv that would NOT and has NOT ever happened to me. The only justifiable time i could see it happening is if someone new joined a party finder that specifically said no newbies. Other wise the GM's over here in ff take that stuff very seriously and i love them for that. Keep in mind in tera there is no party finder its all random instance queuing like when you queue into a normal dungeon in ffxiv. It should be a place where you do not get kicked simply because your a first timer. I checked the forums over there only to hear the GM's don't care about this behaviour in their game. It was at this point i just gave up and deleted tera from my ps4 for good. I have no time in my life to have to deal with hassle to try to have fun in a game. I shouldn't have to try it should just come on its only. In ffxiv iv'e never had any trouble TRYING to have fun. I just get online and play without any issues and have fun.

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bad kicks happen here too, just most of the time it happens near end or very end, much worse then doing it at the start since you wasted 15-25 mins. This game does nothing for such thing as well as far as preventive measures, you will see people doing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Kudos to the OP.
With my experience over the years on a big number of sub and f2p games, I give XIV rank 1 for playability, polishness and battle balancing.

And about the cash shop, this is the fairest I ever saw. Almost everything there you can already have it in your account if you played 2.0 from the start. And the few exclusives aren't game breaking.

Sure the game isn't perfect, but I think all other devs and publishers in the world must look at XIV as an example on how to do things. Nuff said~

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with very few being account wide? sorry wow does everything better that you commented on. (well not sure on class balancing for PvE, but WoW dev def does put more effort in PvP balancing then here)
The cost for emotes and retainers is very questionable.

Reminder:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

You clearly meant well, and I commend you for that, but I do think you need to have a bit more experience with MMOs in general before you begin making your comparisons. You basically made it sound like XIV was a god walking amongst mere mortals. It's not. It is imperfect like everything else, and therefore prone to criticism. Is it better than some? Yes. Is it THE best? Far from it.

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Can you add more details on what games do better then FFXIV in y area? I only know of wow and ffxi, and ffxi doesn't really have a cash shop

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I agree you will have to do bandaid fixes, But you don't keep that bandaid fix 2 + years, or even worse, keep putting new bandaid fixes on the original bandaid as time goes on, and never fixing the core.


bad kicks happen here too, just most of the time it happens near end or very end, much worse then doing it at the start since you wasted 15-25 mins. This game does nothing for such thing as well as far as preventive measures, you will see people doing it.



with very few being account wide? sorry wow does everything better that you commented on. (well not sure on class balancing for PvE, but WoW dev def does put more effort in PvP balancing then here)
The cost for emotes and retainers is very questionable.

Reminder:

Can you add more details on what games do better then FFXIV in y area? I only know of wow and ffxi, and ffxi doesn't really have a cash shop

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Even so from my experience as a veteran who played since launch of 2.0 i have not once EVER had to deal with a bad kick ESPECIALLY for simply being new at something. Here in ffxiv the GM's actually do something about that stuff and for that simple reason i think the players don't abuse the system, and that is a lot more than can be said about tera from MY EXPERIENCE. Also from what iv'e seen it seems the in game community in this game is just much more mature. Don't forget the situation i just explained earlier is from a normal instance one that is randomly matched up. New players should not have to work just to find help to progress in the game and story because elitists are trying to build a perfect party IN A MATCHED INSTANCE. It's just absurd to me. Elitists are SUPPOSED to be the ones who build parties outside the matchmaker to get the perfect party they want. Not push new players aside just so they can be petty. Regardless of what game it is that is rude behavior to anyone and that is an undeniable fact to anyone who has the heart to acknowledge it for what it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

Even so from my experience as a veteran who played since launch of 2.0 i have not once EVER had to deal with a bad kick ESPECIALLY for simply being new at something. Here in ffxiv the GM's actually do something about that stuff and for that simple reason i think the players don't abuse the system, and that is a lot more than can be said about tera from MY EXPERIENCE. Also from what iv'e seen it seems the in game community in this game is just much more mature. Don't forget the situation i just explained earlier is from a normal instance one that is randomly matched up. New players should not have towork just to find help to progress in the game and story because elitists are trying to build a perfect party IN A MATCHED INSTANCE. It's just absurd to me. Elitists are SUPPOSED to be the ones who build parties outside the matchmaker to get the perfect party they want. Not push new players aside just so they can be petty. Regardless of what game it is that is rude behavior to anyone and that is an undeniable fact to anyone who has the heart to acknowledge it for what it is.

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Ironic cuz someone was complaining to me about a bad kick in sastasha, group of 2 vs group of 2 isn't fun, its whoever gets the proposal off first. (though to be fair the "losing side" did not think there was an issue)
Bad kicks happen everywhere, wow had the same problems, it is why you hear stories on people afraid to say they are new here because of experience from other games.
The real kicker in this latest story, the new tank in question did fulfilled the request that was made to them, and yet was kicked anyway.

Just because you never seen it happen, does not mean it never happens. (Yes I had my personal run-ins)

This goes back to what was said earlier, you can't just play one MMO, then act like FFXIV is the best MMO out there, just because of your experience in 1 MMO.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Ironic cuz someone was complaining to me about a bad kick in sastasha, group of 2 vs group of 2 isn't fun, its whoever gets the proposal off first. (though to be fair the "losing side" did not think there was an issue)
Bad kicks happen everywhere, wow had the same problems, it is why you hear stories on people afraid to say they are new here because of experience from other games.
The real kicker in this latest story, the new tank in question did fulfilled the request that was made to them, and yet was kicked anyway.

Just because you never seen it happen, does not mean it never happens. (Yes I had my personal run-ins)

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Never did i say it NEVER happens in general i CLEARLY stated "from MY EXPERIENCE" so your arguing with nothing over that. Not to mention as i never said it NEVER happens i do think it happens LESS in this game because people know they actually get in trouble for that behavior over here versus in tera, and unless you have real statistical evidence you can't really prove that incorrect, and as there is probably not any statistics on something that specific or that if there is its most likely square enix's private information. I highly doubt you can really prove me wrong on that front.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Can you add more details on what games do better then FFXIV in y area? I only know of wow and ffxi, and ffxi doesn't really have a cash shop

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I will only list 3, because...my fingers will probably hurt after I'm done with this post.

Incoming massive wall of text

I'll start with Rift. Back when it was good, it did a variety of things...

-Massive zones with a ton of diversity, each accessible without a loading screen aside from a few cases, such as different continents in general and teleportation.

-Each zone had rifts which would be the equivalent of fates and the like. You could also spawn them yourself with certain abilities. Every so often a massive zone event would spawn, which would affect the entire zone, including quest hubs. Massive rifts would spawn across the zone, along with a ton of monsters. These monsters would go after various points of interest and could actually capture them and force you to take them back. This would last for a little while after the event ended too, but would eventually despawn.

-Classes were made to be anything and everything. Wanted to be a mage tank/healer/dps? Done. It was the same with just about every class, each possessing its own unique charm.

-PvP: Probably the most fun PvP I ever played. It was fun and engaging. Honestly not sure how else to describe it.

PvE: Questing was a blast as you progressed, and almost always provided players with some sort of challenge.

Story: It was decent, though each zone basically had its own.

Holidays: A lot of their celebrations throughout the year gave out some pretty awesome stuff, which usually required grinding.

Housing: You were provided with your own little dimension in which you could choose the what and where, with a ton of options. Probably one of the better housing systems to date.

Glamour system: It has a glamour tab. Open tab, insert gear, done. Simple, effective and less taxing on the servers.

There could be more probably but I'll stop there.

XI...

-Pretty hardcore gameplay from PvE to crafting, and largely required group play. This was all but required for decent leveling. As a result friendships could be forged.

-Massive, sprawling zones with a sense of danger just about anywhere you went. Each zone was also unique and beautiful in their own ways.

-Jobs were all unique and largely complex, which added depth.

-Story was pretty amazing. I never got to play through every story, but I enjoyed what I did do. There was also a lot of interesting characters to meet as you go.

-Numerous types of content available such as Ballista, ZNMs, Dynamis, Sea, Sky, past zone large scale beastmen battles...the list goes on. Gear remained relevant for years, not months, which was nice.

Much more was added since, but I really don't feel like typing all evening.

WoW:

Races: Quite a few races to choose from, all with decent customization options. Way, way more than even XIV has. Draenei (Draenei, aka aliens), Tauren (Minotaurs, 2 types and counting), Pandaren (yes, panda people), Elves (3 types and counting), Forsaken (aka undead, aka zombies), Orcs, Humans, Worgen (werewolves), Trolls...and more. More will also be added.

Questing: Largely fun, even if the stories don't always make sense.

Story: Imo, they tell a decent story. And there's a ton of it to go through. Tons of side quests provide extra story to experience, and there's technically no "main" story, since each expansion has its own. But they tell it in such a way that it always connects to the next expansion in some way. Having some pretty awesome characters to get invested in also helps.

Open world: Large, expansive world to explore from the get-go. Seriously, it's just massive. They promote exploration as well. There's a lot of little things to find.

PvE: Fun, engaging, fast action combat with a decent set of abilities for most classes. Each class also feels unique in some way. Dungeon and raids are both nonstop action from start to finish...RP sequences aside.

PvP: I can't really defend WoW's PvP now, but it was truly a blast years ago. It relied more on skill than anything else and I do love large scale battles. Plenty of that still, thankfully.

Content: Tons of things to do from quests, pet battles (what Verminion should have been), dungeons, raids, PvP battlegrounds and arenas, rep grinding, and so many dang achievements to work toward. A lot of them give some fancy rewards and some can be quite tough to complete. A lot of dungeons and raids also drop pets, mounts and glamour pieces which gives people incentive to run content for months, if not years.

Cash shop: There's some mounts, pets (minions) and 3 glamour pieces which are simply fancy helmets. That's it.

Glamour system: Transmogrification is what it is called there, and you have your own log that houses ALL of your usable appearances. They are usually based on class though since there is a specific armor type that each can use, but some are shared. You go to an NPC which can change your appearance. You can also build your own set to use for later. So many options though from weapons to armor that I will be forever collecting things.

The list could go on for each of these, as well as a list of other MMOs, but I listed points that I feel other games do better than XIV by miles. There may be some slight bias toward WoW, but I can't help that.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

It saddens me they let that crap fly over in tera. I know here in ffxiv that would NOT and has NOT ever happened to me. The only justifiable time i could see it happening is if someone new joined a party finder that specifically said no newbies. Other wise the GM's over here in ff take that stuff very seriously and i love them for that.

Even so from my experience as a veteran who played since launch of 2.0 i have not once EVER had to deal with a bad kick ESPECIALLY for simply being new at something. Here in ffxiv the GM's actually do something about that stuff and for that simple reason i think the players don't abuse the system, and that is a lot more than can be said about tera from MY EXPERIENCE.

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Just so you know, the GMs don't ban people for kicking you in FF14 either,for nearly any reason unless they actually verbally abused you (which you were not in TERA either). Everything else falls under the blanket "differing playstyles" and is a valid dismissal as such.

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Elitists are SUPPOSED to be the ones who build parties outside the matchmaker to get the perfect party they want. Not push new players aside just so they can be petty. Regardless of what game it is that is rude behavior to anyone and that is an undeniable fact to anyone who has the heart to acknowledge it for what it is.

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Regardless of how negative your experience was, it was a majority vote. The other random players felt that you being new was more of a burden to them, than the value in protecting your fragile innocence, otherwise the other party members would have voted to defend you.

I played WoW for nearly 14 years. I've never ONCE been kicked or seen a bad kick. Anecodtal evidence means nothing unfortunately, so while I appreciate you sharing with us, please refrain from making sweeping generalizations about a game based on anecdotal isolated incidents.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

Just so you know, the GMs don't ban people for kicking you in FF14 either,for nearly any reason unless they actually verbally abused you (which you were not in TERA either). Everything else falls under the blanket "differing playstyles" and is a valid dismissal as such.



Regardless of how negative your experience was, it was a majority vote. The other random players felt that you being new was more of a burden to them, than the value in protecting your fragile innocence, otherwise the other party members would have voted to defend you.

I played WoW for nearly 14 years. I've never ONCE been kicked or seen a bad kick. Anecodtal evidence means nothing unfortunately, so while I appreciate you sharing with us, please refrain from making sweeping generalizations about a game based on anecdotal isolated incidents.

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Ya, FFXIV's policies are a bit odd. You can get away with a lot, while on the other end if you curse you are suspended. They have to follow a strict list and it causes people to be suspended on the most petty acts while on the other hand people can get away with a LOT as long it is the right wording to fall outside the checklist.

I agree with you. People here havent experienced other games enough. i have been playing during years to free mmorpg... and i can say for sure, dont even try going there. They will press and torture you in all imaginable ways so you have to pay. Your game experience become a torture.
People say you cant consider ffxiv is the best mmorpg. Uh...its pretty much the truth. You can only really count mmorpg with subscription. I guess it depends of taste. But what are you going to play? Wow? FFXI? At least me i prefer this one by far

To be honest, if WoW had FF's crafting system and graphics (night/day, character customization, enviornments), I'd never have left WoW.

On the flip side, if FF had WoW's smooth responsive combat system and numerous QoL features (glamour tab, add-ons, repair mounts, tons of bag space, fc event calenders, crafting from your bank, ect), I'd stick with FF for good.

I love FF14 but their combat system is a killer for me. I cringe every time I stun a mob at 70% of the cast bar and it hits me anyway. It's a great game overall, but I'm quite certain I'll be drifting away once WoW's new expansion launches.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Ya, FFXIV's policies are a bit odd. You can get away with a lot, while on the other end if you curse you are suspended. They have to follow a strict list and it causes people to be suspended on the most petty acts while on the other hand people can get away with a LOT as long it is the right wording to fall outside the checklist.

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I curse all the time and have never been suspended.

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Originally Posted by Soupa

I curse all the time and have never been suspended.

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channel, context, and someone reporting you are also key. it is also pretty easy if parsers are involved.
(i/e it is a lot harder for them to act on linkshell/fc chats)

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Originally Posted by Redname

I agree with you. People here havent experienced other games enough. i have been playing during years to free mmorpg... and i can say for sure, dont even try going there. They will press and torture you in all imaginable ways so you have to pay. Your game experience become a torture.
People say you cant consider ffxiv is the best mmorpg. Uh...its pretty much the truth. You can only really count mmorpg with subscription. I guess it depends of taste. But what are you going to play? Wow? FFXI? At least me i prefer this one by far

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I've experienced well over a dozen MMOs; sub, p2p, f2p, etc. over the course of nearly 14 years of gaming. I haven't been tortured yet...

Also you saying FF14 is the best sub-based MMO is not "the truth", it is an opinion. Many may share it, but it doesn't make it objectively true.

TBF he kinda acknowledges that it's an opinion in that phrase

I mean, the only aspect of the game that keeps me playing is the MSQ. I don't find FF14 does anything else remarkably well

I think there's a lot that Tera on consoles does right and there's a lot they do wrong as well, FFXIV is a good game and I still prefer it over Tera but I think the combat which is the main goal for most people is dull, the story is generic pulled from each and every single FF game instead of something new, etc.

Each has their pros and cons but I think Tera arguably does things better for a F2P and is one of the more honest F2P models I've seen, only PoE for a F2P game imo is more fair in terms of non p2w stuff.

It's funny and kinda sad really how you come to just state your lost love found for this game and some people seem to attack you JUST at the fact that you were being grateful and thankful. It's as if anyone takes any tiny little reason to take a slight at SE. As you have stated and are right, everyone has an opinion, and they are allowed to, but this should apply to you as well. You shouldn't be told "they don't deserve your praise" lol who the heck is anyone to say who or what does and doesn't deserve anyone's anything? Anyways, just writing to let you know you do have support, glad you found your way back to it. And while a lot of valid facts are being thrown around, you are simply just happy to be back here. Almost like coming home after traveling.

Man, Tera was such a letdown of a port, to see the same issues i encountered in PC just to be ported over.... For me its near unplayable which is a shame since i really love the classes and was really hoping to get my console bound ps4 friends from ffxiv into it.....

But sometimes it takes watching a dumpster fire to realize, we don't have it so bad. While its not perfect, it definitely could be way worse.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

Man, Tera was such a letdown of a port, to see the same issues i encountered in PC just to be ported over.... For me its near unplayable

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I think the quality of FF XIV on console is one of its most important achievements. Easily the best mmo to console adaptation ever, which also means the PC version has the same simple UI and ideal gamepad controls. It makes me wish every game used the same cross-hotbar interface.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I think the quality of FF XIV on console is one of its most important achievements. Easily the best mmo to console adaptation ever, which also means the PC version has the same simple UI and ideal gamepad controls. It makes me wish every game used the same cross-hotbar interface.

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Agreed, though I do like throwing Warframe in there, while not an mmo persay went from a shaky start on console after the port, to one of the best games on there (and f2p to boot). But even Warframe at its worst stage early on, was about 20 times better than what they did with Tera. They didn't even try for that one.

And I really wish as well more mmo's utilized the same cross bar for controller play.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

Agreed, though I do like throwing Warframe in there, while not an mmo persay went from a shaky start on console after the port, to one of the best games on there (and f2p to boot). But even Warframe at its worst stage early on, was about 20 times better than what they did with Tera. They didn't even try for that one.

And I really wish as well more mmo's utilized the same cross bar for controller play.

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Completely agree with you and the person you quoted. Aside from that it's also the little things that keep me into ff14 like they actually care about those quality of life things unlike some other games. Like i can reverse BOTH x and y axis on my camera which i basically need since i play all my games like a freaking flight simulator lol. I tried going back to normal axis and i just couldn't do it. But tera for some reason had a y axis but no x axis which made things even more screwed up. It's like why didnt they add it even after people suggested it in the beta tests. It's such an easy thing to throw in the settings, the game completely lacked all UI and HUD settings. The game was just so barebone and i guess thats why i see a lot of my friends forgetting tera an dmoving onto other games now. Most people who were brave enough to say it like it was on the enmasse forums were talking about just waiting for a game called black desert online.

All i know is most of the people sticking to tera after all that crap are the types who would just white knight and stick it through even if they can't admit to themselves its trash. I did have hopes for tera as it looked like something i always wanted to get into i wanted to be a elin ninja but they are soo far behind that ninja, valkyrie, gunner or whatever still wasn't in the game. People try to defend the crap quality they rushed out by saying things like "oh well all games have their issues" or "well ff14 1.0 was trash" but to me its like tera was just as low as it got and i have played a lot of games not just tera (both mmo and non mmo). ALso 1.0 is NOT arr. ARR is 2.0+ and a complete remake. Most companies would probably not try to take responsibility and do the right thing by remaking it into something it should have been. What SE did by remaking it is something i respect. The way i feel is regardless whether they are a big or small company SE at-least holds itself to a certain standard. The experience i got with the tera port was that they didn't care how badly people thought about them and the port they did and they just wanted to rush crap out for that cashgrab. People are now starting to flame about how much of a gamble the lootboxes are for ridiculous prices. Like why spend the price of a new game just to get a lootbox that may not even give you something that appeals to you glamour wise.

Seeing Square Enix in a new Darkness. They just throw away the light with they stupid sub base app lol
i can't even find excuse to white knight it. i guess ill say it stop RMT because sub? IDK Lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

Man, Tera was such a letdown of a port, to see the same issues i encountered in PC just to be ported over.... For me its near unplayable which is a shame since i really love the classes and was really hoping to get my console bound ps4 friends from ffxiv into it.....

But sometimes it takes watching a dumpster fire to realize, we don't have it so bad. While its not perfect, it definitely could be way worse.

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The dumpster just got fire, we have it worse now.

Tera was a major let down. I thought they were going to at least update the graphics on that game. They updated the UI. But like OP said. The servers are extremely unstable. And the game was a major flop on day1 week1.

Im going to stick with ESO and FFXIV

I've played several MMORPGs in the past and FF14 is the absolute best in my book. It basically solved every issue I had with all the other games, while also offering the kind of content I truly enjoy. I guess every game will appeal to different people; FF14 is definitely what appeals to me the most.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

snip cuz I'm too lazy to edit.

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Yep I totally agree with you. And I was looking forward to ninja, since the bit I played on PC I actually enjoyed quite a bit to ignore some of the shortcomings of the game, but when I saw that wasn't even out....nah....For me yeah sure you can use the excuse 1.0 ffxiv was bad, but Tera has been out for how long and didnt even fix some of these issues on their PC version....at least FFXIV scrapped and redid the game to fix what they could... But yeah, the console port is totally a cash grab to the extreme. Those lootbox prices are INSANE. And I know the new FFXIV app is the new thing to rage against for its cost, but man, when weighing the two....Tera is still worse.

Aren’t we really comparing apples and oranges here?

TERA is a free to play game. I can play it for nothing.

FFXIV is a pay to play subscription game. I expect to get something significantly better.

Wouldn’t a comparison against WoW be more appropriate?

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Wouldn’t a comparison against WoW be more appropriate?

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should we ? after all WoW is 14 years old now (being that "old" and can still put FF to shame game-design wise)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Aren’t we really comparing apples and oranges here?

TERA is a free to play game. I can play it for nothing.

FFXIV is a pay to play subscription game. I expect to get something significantly better.

Wouldn’t a comparison against WoW be more appropriate?

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Not really, I've stated this on a previous page of this thread. You can't use one is ftp and one is sub based to say you can't compare because that implies that just because one game has a different form of profit ( pay to win vs pay to play) means that somehow the dev team of the sub game does a better job on their game. Size of teams only differs the time things gets done. What i am talking about is quality and how good of a job they do. Tera rakes in enough profit to do a heck of a lot better than they are doing now. This is about the overall dev team for tera just being bad at what they do or just plain not giving a crap about doing a good job. Completely different things. Also If you want to use difference in pay style i can argue difference in age for a comparison with WoW, but like i said this is less about how they make their profits and more about the dev teams doing their jobs properly.

Tera is not as good as ffxiv sure but it still does do things better then FF (rewards and the combat as example) this of course is matter of opinion
As for Wow i have heard from countless people it still looks like it did 10 or so years ago.
Myself i have always been console so cannot comment myself about Wow

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

Not really, I've stated this on a previous page of this thread. You can't use one is ftp and one is sub based to say you can't compare because that implies that just because one game has a different form of profit ( pay to win vs pay to play) means that somehow the dev team of the sub game does a better job on their game. Size of teams only differs the time things gets done. What i am talking about is quality and how good of a job they do. Tera rakes in enough profit to do a heck of a lot better than they are doing now. This is about the overall dev team for tera just being bad at what they do or just plain not giving a crap about doing a good job. Completely different things. Also If you want to use difference in pay style i can argue difference in age for a comparison with WoW, but like i said this is less about how they make their profits and more about the dev teams doing their jobs properly.

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Ok, we just have different ways of setting our expectations is all. My expectations are dependent upon what something costs me. I can understand someone having absolute expectations instead.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Tera is not as good as ffxiv sure but it still does do things better then FF (rewards and the combat as example) this of course is matter of opinion
As for Wow i have heard from countless people it still looks like it did 10 or so years ago.
Myself i have always been console so cannot comment myself about Wow

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WoW looks vastly different than it did roughly 10 years ago. They upgrade the engine with each expansion. They've also added a ton of new features since then and change the classes pretty often (though I don't care for class changes every expansion myself).

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Originally Posted by Maero

Tera is not as good as ffxiv sure but it still does do things better then FF (rewards and the combat as example) this of course is matter of opinion
As for Wow i have heard from countless people it still looks like it did 10 or so years ago.
Myself i have always been console so cannot comment myself about Wow

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That's just your opinion, from my perspective Tera is just junk even the things you stated that you say is better to me they appear worse. FFXIV in my eyes is exactly what i want in am mmo. The rewards, the combat both are better than Tera's. It's all a matter of opinion. What i was talking about earlyer was the clear signs that the dev team for tera is not doing a very good job with fixing the major issues with their game. They wont upgrade or fix their engine issues with it or any of the settings/performance issues despite people complaining about it for years. I have played both games to end game and i can say with full experience on both that compared to tera FFXIV runs smooth as butter on the same exact platform while tera just stutters like heck.

Here is proof of comparison, Both on ps4.

FFXIV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi8tltjU7I4

Versus

Tera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYMLzCNyYSA

(If this were one of the bigger tera raids more equal to the size of the ffxiv video i showed my guess is the persons ps4 would just outright crash)

Now keep in mind that tera video is exactly what i have experienced as well. It is undeniable proof of the major and i mean blatantly MAJOR issues with their games performance. No real person who ACTUALLY cares about the product they pay for would say tera does anything better at all when there is still such a main issue with the game. If that framerate issue was on ff14 SE would be making a public apology and fixing it day 1 regardless of the difference in profit/team size, because they have a sense right and wrong. Tera on the other hand has had this issue on pc for some time now and ps4 port for going on 3 weeks. People seem to think they can brush this off as no biggie when they themselves know this is a game breaking issue. Not to mention this is a simple 5 man dungeon normal end game instance in tera, while the ffxiv video is much more graphical, flashy, and more players, yet on the same platform it runs smooth as butter still. I can do an S rank with 60+ people and my ps4 wont sound like it's trying to rocket to the moon or my performance wont get terrible.

Overall you cannot refute evidence and these videos are just that (evidence). I don't know why people like to try to defend something that is so blatant about how many serious issues it has. Not to mention the latest issues people have with Enmasse lying about what came in a pack that they payed for and then changing the description later on (which is basically against the law, its called false marketing and it's very shady), as well as selling 60 dollar loot boxes that force you to gamble to hopefully get what you want. I could buy a new game for 60 dollars and with that i actually know what i'm getting rather than hoping i get some costume that actually appeals to me. Never the less everyone has their own opinions like i said in the past if tera is your thing than more power to you, but my opinion is that it's a horrible game, and facts show that the dev team and the performance of tera is just trash even for average standards.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Aren’t we really comparing apples and oranges here?

TERA is a free to play game. I can play it for nothing.

FFXIV is a pay to play subscription game. I expect to get something significantly better.

Wouldn’t a comparison against WoW be more appropriate?

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I'd like to note you can compare Tera, because it did start as a Sub based game before going F2P.

Keep in mind, as much as they say they wont do that to FFXIV, money speaks.

It all depends what the company wants to do to get more money.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

That's just your opinion, from my perspective Tera is just junk even the things you stated that you say is better to me they appear worse.

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Tera has fantastic gameplay, classes and reward system.
However their optimization is severely lacking to where it affects most aspects of the game itself. And they clearly don't care to fix it. Ever.
I wouldn't necessarily say FFXIV is the best either from just a console standpoint. It has its own issues as well, they are just better hidden.

Everyone will always have their pros and cons of a game. But some companies do put forth a bit more effort than others. For those that like to complain about FFXIV, just take a look at that Tera port. That is what poor dev support looks like. FFXIV doesnt have that.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

I'd like to note you can compare Tera, because it did start as a Sub based game before going F2P.

Keep in mind, as much as they say they wont do that to FFXIV, money speaks.

It all depends what the company wants to do to get more money.

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If you are talking about ffxiv going free to play, i honestly think (and im not just trying to be negative about this) that SE would lose some of its players. There ARE some people who play this game partly or mostly because its not pay to win, and i think the only way FFXIV could go free to play is by encorperating some of that pay to win aspect into it's game. I am sure there is some players out there who would not take that well and possibly quit ffxiv. My preference also leans towards it staying sub based as i enjoy the game just as it is.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

Tera has fantastic gameplay, classes and reward system.
However their optimization is severely lacking to where it affects most aspects of the game itself. And they clearly don't care to fix it. Ever.
I wouldn't necessarily say FFXIV is the best either from just a console standpoint. It has its own issues as well, they are just better hidden.

Everyone will always have their pros and cons of a game. But some companies do put forth a bit more effort than others. For those that like to complain about FFXIV, just take a look at that Tera port. That is what poor dev support looks like. FFXIV doesnt have that.

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I'm not necessarily trying to say FFXIV is the best mmo out there (while my OPINION is that it is the best in relation to my personal preference), but aside from that basically the whole of what you said i agree with. All games even FFXIV may have their issues, although i feel like the Tera port could have OBVIOUSLY done way better even by average standards and that the dev team is completely at fault for just not caring about their games success or their customers pleas to fix it. There's a difference between the minor issues FFXIV may have versus SERIOUS game breaking performance issues that Tera has on console port and has had on the pc version to this day, and i feel that people need to understand those differences are what can make or break a game.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

If you are talking about ffxiv going free to play, i honestly think (and im not just trying to be negative about this) that SE would lose some of its players. There ARE some people who play this game partly or mostly because its not pay to win, and i think the only way FFXIV could go free to play is by encorperating some of that pay to win aspect into it's game. I am sure there is some players out there who would not take that well and possibly quit ffxiv. My preference also leans towards it staying sub based as i enjoy the game just as it is.

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Oh definitely would lose players, but would gain some too. I know a lot of people hoping for the F2P as much as I'm against it at this point and time. But in the end it wouldn't bother me if it did.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I'm not necessarily trying to say FFXIV is the best mmo out there (while my OPINION is that it is the best in relation to my personal preference), but aside from that basically the whole of what you said i agree with. All games even FFXIV may have their issues, although i feel like the Tera port could have OBVIOUSLY done way better even by average standards and that the dev team is completely at fault for just not caring about their games success or their customers pleas to fix it. There's a difference between the minor issues FFXIV may have versus SERIOUS game breaking performance issues that Tera has on console port and has had on the pc version to this day, and i feel that people need to understand those differences are what can make or break a game.

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I totally agree.

There are idd many ppl (well they are from a forum so many is debatable) I know that don't plan on playing because the game has a sub, indidentally they are also the ones disliking p2w the most though