please consider ending the mentor system

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

I attained mentor status back in 3.X from my Gatherers and Crafters being at 60, I didn't hit 1,000 dungeons until the third week of Stormblood. Many of the impatient mentors you see are often those who gained it simply by crafting and gathering, and often times... just want the achievement without putting in effort. Unfortunately this leads to player who shouldn't be mentors, being eligible, as DoH/L requirements make attaining the status far easier than meeting the DoW/DoM requirements as leveling a crafter/gatherer takes less time by comparison. The whole system needs to be revamped from the ground up.

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As another Tradecraft Mentor, I think you've made a lot of really unfair generalisations about us. Levelling crafters takes plenty of effort unless you buy your leve turn ins, and even then you have to make all the scrip turn-ins yourself. So the idea we all got there with no effort is certainly untrue.
Also, you do realise that the requirements for Mentor Roulette are the same for everyone, if you haven't done all the required instances you cannot take part; there is no way for people to sneak their way in.

Having said that, I do think it's crazy that a Trade Mentor can put on the PVE mentor flag even if they don't meet the requirements and that PVE mentors can flag themselves as experts in PVP or DOH/L if they wish. I feel the crown should be specific and you should only be able to wear the ones you've earned.
I also agree with posters who've suggested changing the crown to something less prestigious like a watering can.

Personally, I'd like to see the system tightened up rather than removed. A lot of people are just in it for the mount, and that's something we'll have to live with. I do wish there was some way of removing mentors who troll groups or otherwise break the ToS, though.
When you sign up as a mentor you agree to help others and to be courteous, but there doesn't seem to be any mechanism for removing those mentors who not only don't want to help other people but actively go out of their way to spoil their experience.

PvE mentor: A person who knows fundamentals of how to heal, tank and dps. A person who can help with basics of each role. A person who can explain which roles should prioritize more. A person who can help with how to level PvE jobs, how to unlock jobs, and any PvE related content.

PvP mentor: A person who can explain how pvp works in the game, what maps and mods there are. A person who can give tips about pvp and can help with various pvp mods the game currently has. Like how to play frontlines or feast and what to prioritize.

DoL & DoH mentor: A person who can introduce what those are, how to unlock dol & doh. A person who can explain what collectables are, how to do collectables, rotations for crafting and gathering at the basic level, what is quality and how to craft & gather efficiently. A person who can explain ephemeral nodes, timed nodes, desynthesis and aetherial reduction. A person who explains about regional folklore and master recipes and how to get them.

Non-specified mentors: Those who has knowledge about PvE & PvP & DoL & DoH mentor at the basic level and help with all of them.

I will repeat myself, but i will do it regardless. First of all, people (most of them) who are mentors play the game, because it is a game. It should be fun. No one has any WHATSOEVER obligation to help anyone. Even you wear the majestic crown. I can have a bad day, i can feel sick or simply i may not feel like helping. I don't deserve to burn at the stick. I can't worry because i forgot to take off my crown because i am not in the mood of helping that day or just because i like the crown. That crown is a feature in the game, if you meet the requirements you can wear the crown even if you are closed to helping people. It is a game, you are allowed to play the way you want as long as no harm is being done to anyone. Secondly, mentors aren't gods (i accept some people can be cocky). But those people will always be that way even without being a mentor, that crown may boost their ego a bit but still people don't change by wearing a crown. Mentors are regular players who meet the requirements to help new players about the things i wrote above. They MAY give advices about the BASICS of the various gameplay features, but this doesn't mean they are top notch players. You can't expect them to give lv70 job rotations or savage tips or lv70 crafting & gathering tips to a player. Being lv70 is supposed to meant, you know the basics of the game. (Talking about for example being lv70 crafter or gatherer or DoW & DoM). If you are a lv70 crafter, you can't demand a crafter mentor to answer your questions. Sorry but, find your answers yourself at that point if you keep insisting mentors should help ANYONE in the game. Mentors have life too, they have a right to reject people if they are being unreasonable and they have no obligation to help. Everyone should play the game as they enjoy. Sometimes i help, sometimes i don't. It doesn't mean i am a bad mentor, it means i am probably tired or i see some buggy feeling about the person i don't help. Because simply, most of the time, people aren't open to get advices. ''you don't pay my sub, you egomaniac mentor'' etc. is the common response i get when i try to give advice most of the time, if the person isn't a sprout.

Anyways, i just think system is oki. People expect way too much of mentors. Mentors can be bad players too, you only need 1 dps 1 healer 1 tank so you are allowed to mess up your other dps rotations or kill tank because you are not accustomed to other healing job, or simply lose aggro because you are not comfortable being a tank. This is a game, and you are playing with other people. People have rights to be sad, angry, tired, sleepy, sick etc.

Again, mentors are players who are not new to the game. Nothing more in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

No one has any WHATSOEVER obligation to help anyone. Even you wear the majestic crown. I can have a bad day, i can feel sick or simply i may not feel like helping. I don't deserve to burn at the stick. I can't worry because i forgot to take off my crown because i am not in the mood of helping that day or just because i like the crown.

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If you agree to be a mentor you also agree to help new players, invite them to the Novice network, answer their queries and provide a good example through your behaviour and interactions. It's there in writing when you talk to the Smith.

You are obligated. The crown is not supposed to be some pretty icon you can wear without bothering to do any of the stuff you agreed to. The mount is supposed to be a reward for helping, not just something to show you are a veteran player. However, since there is no penalty for not fulfilling your obligations, people like you can ignore them. That's the problem with the system as it is, people who abuse the mentor system go unpunished.

I'm sorry, but if you are having a bad day, don't want to help etc. then there's no excuse for running around with the mentor crown on. It's meant to show new players they can turn to you for help. Stop giving the rest of us the reputation of being lazy, unhelpful, etc. and just toggle it off.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

You are obligated.

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Not to the extent you make it out to be, no. We're still human, and unpaid volunteers at that. So long as they're not rude about it, it's all good, given that we're still within the example brought up where this is an occasional thing and not their modus operandi. Or should we also start penalizing mentors who legit don't know the answer to something? I'm not helping then, either, haven't I failed my obligations?

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Stop giving the rest of us the reputation of being lazy, unhelpful, etc. and just toggle it off.

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It's a game. It's meant to help people destress and have fun. Even the Mentor system shouldn't be exempt from that. Or have you never forgotten to do something that's ultimately minor when you weren't at your best?

Where's that "if it's not fun we're doing it wrong" screenshot? Yikes.

I love helping others. And i agree if you are wearing the crown, you are supposed to help. But i can't think like every second if i should toggle off the crown or not because i don't feel like helping. I NEVER saw a person asking me for advice. When i see something off, usually if a person is a sprout i point it out. Like yesterday there was a lv20 thm and didn't know what he was doing and i pointed out how he should be playing thm, and he improvised really good through the dungeon after i said that. I am not saying people shouldn't help, i am just saying you have a right to remain silent and say nothing. Because people can backlash really disrespectfully too. I usually prefer saying nothing to avoid drama unless the person is really making serious mistakes.

And that's the attitude i don't approve. This is a game. I play this to relieve stress out of life and work. I LOVE HELPING PEOPLE but i can't toggle off the crown every second i feel depressed or sad or angry. If a person asks something i always answer if i can, but again this is a game. Stop taking it too seriously. It is not a part-time job being a mentor. You have a right not to help sometimes and wear it for glamour. And you have the right to not agree with me, but that's my opinion.

Ignorant people would ask to abolish the system.

The same ignorant people who choose to hinder a group during a extreme primal synced battle because they don't look up realitive information to a 5+ year old fight.

Idc. You are the one who looks bad lying dead on the ground asking "What happend?", while the noob tank runs in and instant pulls again when they restart and without reading a mentors wall-of-text.

You god damn right I'm going to leave and eat a 30 minute penalty. Saves me time in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Ignorant people would ask to abolish the system.

The same ignorant people who choose to hinder a group during a extreme primal synced battle because they don't look up realitive information to a 5+ year old fight.
Idc. You are the one who looks bad lying dead on the ground asking "What happend?", while the noob tank runs in and instant pulls again when they restart and without reading a mentors wall-of-text.

You god damn right I'm going to leave and eat a 30 minute penalty. Saves me time in the long run.

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I was the noobest noob when i first started this game. It was my first mmo. I was a tank, who didn't know what a tank was. I didn't know what party finder was, what unsync battles mean. What extreme fights are and how difficult they are. A person saying he is experiencing bad stuff with mentors and asks to remove the system doesn't make him or her ignorant. It is because of your kind of people probably they ask to abolish this system. I didn't know there were guides on youtube for example for extreme fights. If you are gonna abandon and get out of the fight, at least inform players they can unsync a 5+ year old fight now. Say pf allows khloe runs. Say there are guides and if they wanna experience the fight they can still sync run it in pf. Say you can help them in pf unsync. Pf is cross-server now. They can probably join i assume? And the system isn't about you saving time, it is not supposed to be about you. It is about people helping newbies. You can improve yourself as mentor if you want always and help people. But don't say people are ignorant because you want to save time.

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

But don't say people are ignorant because you want to save time.

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That's not what I said. Don't put words into my mouth. You are taking two things out of context.

I also hear from countless people about how rude some mentors are, myself i have been far more helpful on some runs then "mentors".
The issue (or at least one of) is they made it too simple to become a mentor, they really should have added specific tasks per say

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

That's not what I said. Don't put words into my mouth. You are taking two things out of context.

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You said people are ignorant for asking the system to be removed. Then you explained how ignorant they are by giving an example, then you said you'd save time by just leaving. I thought they are related, i am sorry if i misunderstood. Not here for arguing, just thinking if someone is complaining, there is usually an error in both sides. They need to learn to listen if a mentor giving them advice, and mentors need to be respectful and kind and explain what they can do. I really doubt people queueing ex primals in df knows what pf is tbh. It comes to the mentors to explain things instead of just leaving imo.

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Originally Posted by Maero

they really should have added specific tasks per say

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Other than forcing mentors to get a teaching license, there's really not much more they can do. Anything more in-game would be redundant and besides the point because if the sprout is heading into Savage, either they know what I'm doing or they're beyond help in that content.

I still say they should remove the roulette from the Mentor status. People who want to mentor will still mentor, but anyone who just wants the mount won't tarnish the crown. And change the icon while we're at it. It'll solve so many problems.

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

It comes to the mentors to explain things instead of just leaving imo.

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Can't explain anything when the keyboardless noob tank pulls instantly every time.

You are right. You misunderstood.

Mentors are there to help answer questions, give tips, and on occasion take over leadership role if run is falling apart. ( Give or take their are some slackers and trolls ), Our job as mentors is not to carry or baby sit lower level players. We have better things to do, that is what the beginners hall is for. If we leave is normally do to two reasons; First the run is not salvageable and second people don't listen and are constantly ignoring mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Luin

Let mentor system be like a novice could ping a random mentor that has volunteered themselves for the function; kind of like customer support. This prevents public embarrassment newer players often have when struggling with earlygame mechanics, keybinds, macros, or settings.

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I do agree there needs to be a better mentor to novice matchmaking system in place so the mentors that do want to help get matched with novices who do want help. Another game who's name escapes me did something along these lines. Experienced player would flag themselves by their own choice to be added to a help list. A new player could look through this list by their own choice and pick the experienced player of their choice to be mentor matched with.

The only real issue with the mentor system here is its a mixed bag on both sides of the fence. You have mentors that do want to help with as many that just wanted the crown as a status symbol. Just as on the other side with new players who do want help mixed in with the infamous "Its my sub not yours" and "Tooltips? I don't read those! Reading is hard!" and "How dare you try and help me! Do you think your special or something?" type of players that have probably burned out a fair share of the mentors that do want to help. Neither side knows what they're going to get until its too late.

Mentor Roulette is just that, its just a roulette to help que times. It's still a mixed bag on who you get paired with.
Novice Network is just another chat channel. It's still a mixed bag depending on who is and who isn't in it at the time.

I think honestly that there are alot of good mentors they just get lumped in with the bad ones. like the healer mentors who facepull and mess up the new tank and dont say anything they just keep doing it.... or the mentors that act like they know everything...hey just because you hit 70 on a class and job doesn't mean you know that job it just means you hit that level.. and trust me this is possible. I'm a darn good whm but an average tank but i do practice to get better.

These bad mentors dont even try for that. they just troll.

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

You said people are ignorant for asking the system to be removed. Then you explained how ignorant they are by giving an example, then you said you'd save time by just leaving. I thought they are related, i am sorry if i misunderstood. Not here for arguing, just thinking if someone is complaining, there is usually an error in both sides. They need to learn to listen if a mentor giving them advice, and mentors need to be respectful and kind and explain what they can do. I really doubt people queueing ex primals in df knows what pf is tbh. It comes to the mentors to explain things instead of just leaving imo.

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Let me explain a bit more what they most likely mean.

First off ignorant means : lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated
So saying someone wants the mentor chat removed because of such things is fitting, if you explained how you did not know this or that because it is your first MMO. Wouldn't you agree such a term fits your situation? esp when it leads to the second part:
"while the noob tank runs in and instant pulls again when they restart and without reading a mentors wall-of-text."
So what they are getting at, people really have no right to complain on the mentor system when the person does not know what to do, wipes, then pulls again before anyone can say anything. This is where the idea starts "If the person is not going to bother listening, then best to abandon"

Once I entered moogle extreme by mistake and it popped. (new player message) and I believe the mentor was trying to explain what to do as people watched cs/ loaded in. Before the "noob insta pull" she said something on the lines of "tanks need to tank swamp here, it will wipe if you do not do that. Do you know how to tank swamp and what that means?" (this was asked just before the noob insta pull) Even with that she did try to explain tank swamping idea during the CS duration. She wanted to make sure the new person understood what she was talking about.

The insta pull noob tank does not answer and pulls, also does not bother to try tank swamp at all even though the mentor one was requesting for it during the fight and noticed noob tank not moving. Ofc it was a wipe and she started to question why the noob tank felt the need to insta pull if they did not understand the mentor tank. The noob tank resorted to this:
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png
Then everyone just left after.

I don't know how mentors are on your server but on mine they're pretty nice and helpful.

I'm a mentor but I don't wear my crown unless I actually feel like actively helping sprouts. A lot of people just run around with the crown because it looks cool........

Some people are rude? Some people are not qualified for the title they hold? Some people make mistakes?

Welcome to life.

The mentor system is very very flawed. It's far too easy to become a mentor. I have met some truly awful players with the mentor tag. Literally anyone can get it.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I have met some truly awful players.

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There, I fixed it for you.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The mentor system is very very flawed. It's far too easy to become a mentor. I have met some truly awful players with the mentor tag. Literally anyone can get it.

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mentor system isn't that flawed. there are awful people out there so you can't make a system preventing awful players not to join. that's why there is a report or blacklist systemi have seen MANY non-mentor awful players too, faar too many. so being awful isn't related to being a mentor. And SE really says ''inappropriate behaviour of a mentor can be reported''. Mentors can get suspensions even, idk tbh, but in theory if they are disrespectful in any way, you can report them. And apart from some of the rare cases, in my experience, if you are awful to others, they will be awful to you too. If you are nice, they will be nice. If a mentor sees a problem and points out, then you should at least listen. It is up to you to take the advice or not. But if you approach with hostility, mentor will neutrally seem awful to you because you see every mentor awful. (You here is in general, i am not addressing to anyone btw:) ) And not anyone can get the mentor title, there are requirements. Do i believe the requirements should be updated a bit? Yes. But that doesn't mean people aren't deserving to be mentors. And again this system is here for new players. Mentors are to welcome newbies and introduce several gameplay elements to them. They are not here for end-game. You can't expect mentor system to be gained really hard. A player who has knowledge on certain things should have the right, which right now, in my opinion, it is.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Mentor system brought two good things.
- Novice Network.
- Duty Roulette: Mentor.

The Novice Network is where you’ll find most new players asking for help or general questions related to the game.
Duty Roulette: Mentor is a filler roulette. Mainly to help with queue times.

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I honestly had no idea about the whole Novice Network thing until I was around 45 and somebody invited me >_<

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Originally Posted by Yenyen

I honestly had no idea about the whole Novice Network thing until I was around 45 and somebody invited me >_<

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how did you avoid seeing the game tell you about it when you first started? it tells you about the hall of novice and such where the npc talks about it

The bad examples are always the loudest. For every mentor I've played with (before and after I became one) that was absolutely horrendous, I have several stories of ones who were amazing. Maybe if you're stereotyping a group of people on a few bad eggs, you're also being a bad player yourself.

I think that they should have updated the system a bit when SB came out. Bump everything to 70. The NN needs to be fixed. On my server it's nothing more then a glorified public chat, and I refuse to take part in it.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

There, I fixed it for you.

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You're missing the point. The point is truly awful players shouldn't even be able to get it. I'm talking about things like 60+ players who appear to hardly know how to play the game but have the mentor tag anyway.

I understand that you can never escape bad players, this is life. But I can't understand anyone who thinks the mentor system is fine when even horrendous players can get the mentor tag.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You're missing the point. The point is truly awful players shouldn't even be able to get it.

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How then? They only way I see this is possible if the gm team gets heavily involved and SE wont put that kind of money into it.

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

Yea your new... So let me get you up to speed boi.
Yes Mentor are regular player just as you and I.
3 different class job at lv60
300 Commendation
1000 Dungeon
Easy stuff....
So MOST of the player just want the little Crown, because is cool, some of them think they the best or whatever.
Now thing is... True Mentor don't wear the crown unless they do the mentor roulette. They help people out and stuff with you no even knowing.
Btw Mentor Roulette is like every other Daily Roulette just to help Q time. ;)

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yea boi ur so cool ^^

I was never invited to the novice network so just muddled through on my own and with friends.

I imagine if we had a separate ability to rate someone's mentoring skill (that did not require a person to hang out after the end of a duty), that might be a more accurate reflection of someone as a mentor.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

how did you avoid seeing the game tell you about it when you first started? it tells you about the hall of novice and such where the npc talks about it

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I mean I saw it but I figured the game would invite me or something along those lines, a way to apply on my own

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

I was the noobest noob when i first started this game. It was my first mmo. I was a tank, who didn't know what a tank was. I didn't know what party finder was, what unsync battles mean. What extreme fights are and how difficult they are. I didn't know there were guides on youtube for example for extreme fights.

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and did it ever occur to you the do a 5 second Google search to find anything out on your own? It's 2018 where people talk to smart devices more than they do each other and yet noobs can't look up basic questions about a mmo that's now in its 2nd expansion? Hell 90% of sprouts will not ask questions in dungeons and maybe 50% will take advice given... so maybe noobs can do a little leg work while waiting for that dungeon or trial to fill...

Im also a mentor and i like help new ppl with duties or with the crafting system, but the mentor roulette is a joke. We all know the story what happen when we get an EX primal with mentor roulette.
If only 1 or 2 ppl dont know the strategy its f***d, it happened with me many times, there were some ppl cant even speak english so there was no point to explain the strategy.

Last time i got Odin and a bard keep using lv1 LB as soon as the bar filled..., we wiped 4 times but he refused to listen. So honestly what a mentor can do in a case like this? So yea i left without feeling guilty.

But i agree with the topic, mentor system need a rework

Removing EX primals from the Roulette would be a start.
You wouldn't use the DF to do current EX fights so I don't know why they thought it was a good idea to encourage actual new players to use it with synced old ones.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The point is truly awful players shouldn't even be able to get it. I'm talking about things like 60+ players who appear to hardly know how to play the game but have the mentor tag anyway.

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Being actually good at the game is not a requirement set by SE to becoming a mentor.

Like ive stated before the mentor requirements need to be upped and they need to start punishing them for constantly abandoning duties they dont like when they load.
Yes toxic players exist in both mentor form and non mentor form but the facts are there has been a large increase of toxic mentors that are now outweighing the good ones out there.
I've seen first hand too many times the way mentors act badly towards players both on my main and then on my alt when most of them were trying to pull for my warrior in low level dungeons.Or the classic im gonna pull the boss as soon as im able to regardless if the team is ready.It goes on the whole time in alliance roulette too.
I dont want to see the mentor system removed.I just want to see it improved in a way they can deter or eliminate the bad ones.

I sifted through the first page and last five, not sure if this has been mentioned or not.

Looking back at the OP... I see two main points:

1) In any mildly challenging duty mentors will often quit straight away.
2) A not insignificant number will actually deliberately sabotage events.


Making mentor status harder to achieve doesn't fix either of these issues.
I assume this behavior occurs because the offenders are trying to speed through to the glamour/mount achievement as fast as possible, and not because they necessarily want to help novices learn older content... or even enjoy it.

Now, concern 2 can already be addressed in game. You can, and should, report ppl for intentionally wiping a group and/or being toxic. But you need to create an evidence trail in the chat log. Ask them politely to stop or change the offending behavior a few times so a GM can see that that an attempt at communication was made and subsequently ignored by the offending player.

For the OP's first concern... perhaps the severity of abandoning a duty needs to be increased for Mentor Roulette. Right now it's a 30 minute penalty for abandoning in the first 10 minutes. I'd like to consider a 3 hour penalty for abandoning in the first 45 minutes. These rules would be exclusive to Mentors doing Mentor roulette, but the if a Mentor is penalized then the penalty applies to all forms of duties (other roulettes, dungeons, trials, etc.).

Essentially make the punishment incredibly detrimental for the toxic ppl that are trying to rush the achievement. Is it even worth it for them to queue at that point? Forty-five minutes is a long time to wait for abandon, and afk'ing that long to force a kick is reportable. So risk getting banned or just not queue? I'd rather keep the bad personalities out completely.

to be a mentor is a hard life these days.

- the most "mentors" are trash and just want to look cool with the crown. they made a fools cap out of it. thats why i only have that icon on while the mentor roulette (cuz there is no option to click it off then).

- i rly try to help new ones but they just dont listen or dont give a f***. i dont know.

- ex primals are 90% not possible to finish cuz. i cant explain in french , they dont listen , have no clue about the own class (i cant explain 2-4 players the whole class in there before a bored tank pulls) , the gear is to low (not kidding i had once king moogle mog extreme and both tanks had a lvl 1 ring).

they should rename mentor (a mentor chooses a student/pupil) into kindergardenteacher. thats how i feel most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Rowde

I'd like to consider a 3 hour penalty for abandoning in the first 45 minutes.

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http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5e/5e9b4...54888b21bc.jpg

you clearly never tryed to see it from the other side. just read what i texted.

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Originally Posted by Rowde

For the OP's first concern... perhaps the severity of abandoning a duty needs to be increased for Mentor Roulette. Right now it's a 30 minute penalty for abandoning inthe first 10 minutes. I'd like to consider a 3 hour penalty for abandoning in the first 45 minutes. These rules would be exclusive to Mentors doing Mentor roulette, but the if a Mentor is penalized then the penalty applies to all forms of duties (other roulettes, dungeons, trials, etc.).

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No, no dungeon should be taking more then 30 mins, you are asking for trouble with that kind of proposal. Why do you want to encourage people to harass mentors?

it takes 10 mins to kick someone, this is too long for trials, I seen what it is like when people troll them, it sucks.
I love entering groups that are preformed with the intent to troll, with your change they will have a greater field day, just no:

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Let me explain a bit more what they most likely mean.

First off ignorant means : lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated
So saying someone wants the mentor chat removed because of such things is fitting, if you explained how you did not know this or that because it is your first MMO. Wouldn't you agree such a term fits your situation? esp when it leads to the second part:
"while the noob tank runs in and instant pulls again when they restart and without reading a mentors wall-of-text."
So what they are getting at, people really have no right to complain on the mentor system when the person does not know what to do, wipes, then pulls again before anyone can say anything. This is where the idea starts "If the person is not going to bother listening, then best to abandon"

Once I entered moogle extreme by mistake and it popped. (new player message) and I believe the mentor was trying to explain what to do as people watched cs/ loaded in. Before the "noob insta pull" she said something on the lines of "tanks need to tank swamp here, it will wipe if you do not do that. Do you know how to tank swamp and what that means?" (this was asked just before the noob insta pull) Even with that she did try to explain tank swamping idea during the CS duration. She wanted to make sure the new person understood what she was talking about.

The insta pull noob tank does not answer and pulls, also does not bother to try tank swamp at all even though the mentor one was requesting for it during the fight and noticed noob tank not moving. Ofc it was a wipe and she started to question why the noob tank felt the need to insta pull if they did not understand the mentor tank. The noob tank resorted to this:
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png
Then everyone just left after.

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How do you put in a 3 hour penalty for people that harass mentors?

Tank swamp? Maybe I'm missing the joke here?

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Tank swamp? Maybe I'm missing the joke here?

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lol.. guess you don't know how moogle extreme works at 50, its not a joke.

if you do not do it, you wipe, no ifs ands and butts
https://youtu.be/h7N5XIFsJv4