Add Blue Mages Already

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Originally Posted by Biridan

I don't know much about ff11 blue mage. I didn't even know they had one until this thread. The blue mage weapons I remember is khimari/Spear. Gau/claws. Realm/paintbrush.

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X was kind of a special case because most characters represented two jobs.
Tidus as warrior/time mage, Yuna as summoner/white mage, and Khimari as dragoon/blue mage.

Kihmari would probably be a good base to build a FFXIV BLU on though.

His blue magic list isn't that extensive and he can only use it after a bit of build up. Converts pretty easily into a special role action list and job gauge.

DoM tank would never ever work. A tank needs to hold agro and have good mitigation skills. I honestly don’t think a caster could keep up with casting both offensive and defensive abilities to be a tank. BLU will be dps and that’s that.

A combined shield spear/staff would be cool. Or, a tank that uses a giant Japanese Fan could work . Like Temari from Naruto.

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

DoM tank would never ever work. A tank needs to hold agro and have good mitigation skills. I honestly don’t think a caster could keep up with casting both offensive and defensive abilities to be a tank. BLU will be dps and that’s that.

A combined shield spear/staff would be cool. Or, a tank that uses a giant Japanese Fan could work . Like Temari from Naruto.

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Or, because a blue mage would be a caster/melee hybrid like Red, it has weaponskill for aggro and spells for DPS, with some instant cast spells (Just like all the gcds other tanks have) as additional aggro and defensive abilities.

There's no reason why that couldn't work.

Have it keep all the same stats as the other tanks incl. Strength, explain it as blue magic not being the casters own aether but the gathered aether of aggrod enemies.
Have the iconic blue magic spells utilise a job gauge instead of MP.
Sorted.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Mighty Guard is already a tank limit break, but could be replicated via its own shield skill.

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Mighty Guard has gone under different names throughout the franchise, so that doesn't have to be an issue. Big Guard might not sound impressive, but it's a name. As for the effect, who knows because even just replicating the FFVII ability as a self-targeting ability would probably be absurd.

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Originally Posted by Biridan

I don't know much about ff11 blue mage. I didn't even know they had one until this thread. The blue mage weapons I remember is khimari/Spear. Gau/claws. Realm/paintbrush.

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Gau isn't a blue mage, Relm isn't either. FFVI's blue mage is Strago.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Or, because a blue mage would be a caster/melee hybrid like Red, it has weaponskill for aggro and spells for DPS, with some instant cast spells (Just like all the gcds other tanks have) as additional aggro and defensive abilities.

There's no reason why that couldn't work.

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true, there is really no reason, as seen by the example of PLD. or DRK, wich has no casts, but both are meele / mage hybrid tanks...

sooo, why do we need BLU then?

in Dragon's Dogma you could play with a Cane and a Great Shield. You could cast spells and enchant the shield with elementals for perfect-block counter attacks. that was kind of fun ^^

oh and in FF8 we had Quistis, wich was a blue mage with a Whip.

If we do get BLU, it isn't gonna be a tank, I can tell you that much. Some examples:

1. Blue Mages need to learn their spells from enemies (learning and tanking at the same time would be annoying and would be even worse for newbies who aren't skilled enough).
2. Blue Mages aren't good in heavy equipment (and even Yoshi-P can't make them look good in armor as it wouldn't even called "mage" anymore)
3. Blue Mages uses swords and maybe shields (if going by FFXI). We have a sword and shield job...it's called Paladin.
4. Judging from the HP pool of the other 3 tanks, BLU isn't gonna have enough to help it survive tanking a huge group of mobs even with VIT melds.
5. Blue Mages rely on INT and if memory serves "maybe" STR, so VIT would be a wasted stat for it compared to Paladin.

6. And this is imho, Blue Mage just doesn't meet the qualifications of being a tanking job. It's more valuable as a DPS (or in this case, a melee caster DPS). DRK imo is just as bad as a tank, and imo it should have been a dps, but they had no other original ideas for a new kind of tank for HW, so they figured: "Hey! Lets make this old dps job into a tank! What could possibly go wrong? Ha Ha!"

In short, BLU is a pure melee caster hybrid dps who can learn ememy skills/spells. It's a mage, and as such, it's not fit for tanking. Especially with it being...well...a CASTER.

I rest my case. GG.

1. Important blue magics would be learned by fighting a story quest enemy.
2. Heavy armor is not a tanking requirement. See evasion tanks, illusion tanks, and forcefield tanks from other games.
3. Blue mages have historically also used clubs, whips, rods, and other weapons.
4. HP pools are irrelevant with proper damage resistance or autoregen buffs.
5. INT can be a fine main stat. See (4).
6. Pure opinion.

In short, not everybody shares a narrow view of what a tank "should" be, and given proper care, BLU will make an excellent mage tank and draw more career mages to the tanking role.

the main problem i see with a caster tank is the enmity grabbing. we are used to tanks who pull enmity and aoe enmity with instant skills. and instant skills are better than casts for this anyway. soo... Unmend? Abyssal Drain? also there are many many aoe's wich are specifically targetet on the tank, makes it hard for a caster-tank when he constantly has to dodge.

i really don't see how BLU will be any different from PLD or DRK gameplay wise. if you go through with the pure caster tank he will be struggling compared to the physical tanks. and we already have two hybrid tanks with physical attacks and some magic...

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Originally Posted by Rongway

1. Important blue magics would be learned by fighting a story quest enemy.
2. Heavy armor is not a tanking requirement. See evasion tanks, illusion tanks, and forcefield tanks from other games.
3. Blue mages have historically also used clubs, whips, rods, and other weapons.
4. HP pools are irrelevant with proper damage resistance or autoregen buffs.
5. INT can be a fine main stat. See (4).
6. Pure opinion.

In short, not everybody shares a narrow view of what a tank "should" be, and given proper care, BLU will make an excellent mage tank and draw more career mages to the tanking role.

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1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.
2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.
3. Sources? FFV and FFXI they used swords.
4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.
5. Something we agree on, cept "your" #4
6. Also YOUR pure opinion dude.

Ninja Edit: For #2 People said the same for SAM. Remember the SAM will be a tank debate? The reality: It's a MELEE DPS.

Ninja Edit 2: Yes, Quistis used Whips in FF8 but that kind of weapon patheic and never did any good damage unless you Junction'd good stats on her whips. And even then, they were a poor choice. Her whips were pure fan service and nothing more. Your point is a bit moot. Quina using Forks also bad cause the damage was RANDOM. Very poor choice in weaponary. If they are gonna make characters BLU's give them weapons they were originally designed to use, swords/staves.

Also, Kimhari was a variable in FFX. You could make him into pure blue caster dps or melee blu caster dps. He NEVER made for a good tank. Strago in FFVI was a pure blue mage in FFVI. While he didn't use swords, he used what a mage character would typical use for combat, a stave. But he never made for a good tank either.

You can't use FF8, FF9 or FFX as sources. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

In short, not narrow mindedness, just common fact and history. Mages don't make good tanks in this game. This isn't FFXI where there are a lot of variables added in.

We done here? Good. /blist GG

There are so many "I don't see how it can work because of spells" posts. They are unfounded. There are instant spells. Lots of them. Regen, Aspected Benefic, Flash, Unmend, Unleash, Scathe.


As for "how would a caster tank be any different from PLD or DRK", most of the changes are flavor. Some people just don't want to be running around in heavy armor and carrying a big sword. Some people want magic to be their primary weapon. The gameplay doesn't have to be completely different, but the job aesthetics and personality do.

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Originally Posted by Usho

1. Blue Mages need to learn their spells from enemies (learning and tanking at the same time would be annoying and would be even worse for newbies who aren't skilled enough).

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Originally Posted by Rongway

1. Important blue magics would be learned by fighting a story quest enemy.

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Originally Posted by Usho

1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.

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In Final Fantasy XIV, Disciples of War and of Magic learn all their actions from either levels or quests. There is no precedent for your dismissal of this fact. Placing Learnable blue magics inside quests would also not conflict with the core of Blue Mage.

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Originally Posted by Usho

2. Blue Mages aren't good in heavy equipment (and even Yoshi-P can't make them look good in armor as it wouldn't even called "mage" anymore)

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Originally Posted by Rongway

2. Heavy armor is not a tanking requirement. See evasion tanks, illusion tanks, and forcefield tanks from other games.

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Originally Posted by Usho

2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.

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Your argument displays a wide miss of the point. Obviously I expect blue mage to wear mage gear. Heavy armor warrior jobs are not the only tanking paradigm in fantasy gaming.

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Originally Posted by Usho

3. Blue Mages uses swords and maybe shields (if going by FFXI). We have a sword and shield job...it's called Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

3. Blue mages have historically also used clubs, whips, rods, and other weapons.

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Originally Posted by Usho

3. Sources? FFV and FFXI they used swords.

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FFVI - Strago Magus used rods and clubs. His ultimate weapon was the Stardust Rod.
FFVIII - Quistis Trepe's weapons were whips.
FFIX - Quina Quen used forks.
FFXI - Blue Mages could use swords and clubs.

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Originally Posted by Usho

4. Judging from the HP pool of the other 3 tanks, BLU isn't gonna have enough to help it survive tanking a huge group of mobs even with VIT melds.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

4. HP pools are irrelevant with proper damage resistance or autoregen buffs.

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Originally Posted by Usho

4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.

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Again, you're basing your argument on a heavy armor soak tank paradigm. A magic soak tank with magically inflated defense wouldn't take any more damage than a heavy armor soak tank. There are even other ways to survive, because magic. Historical blue magics have included plenty of defensive and restorative techniques, as well as offensive techniques.

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Originally Posted by Usho

6. And this is imho, Blue Mage just doesn't meet the qualifications of being a tanking job. It's more valuable as a DPS (or in this case, a melee caster DPS). DRK imo is just as bad as a tank, and imo it should have been a dps, but they had no other original ideas for a new kind of tank for HW, so they figured: "Hey! Lets make this old dps job into a tank! What could possibly go wrong? Ha Ha!"

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Originally Posted by Rongway

6. Pure opinion.

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Originally Posted by Usho

6. Also YOUR pure opinion dude.

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Well, no. I've backed mine up with historical data and an understanding that there are people who would play a mage tank specifically because it is not a heavy armor physical job (see previous pages in this thread).

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Originally Posted by Usho

We done here? Good. /blist GG

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Not in the slightest, but good job /blisting me; maybe now I'll get to argue with someone rational instead.

Love it when people pull whatever they want from the series history when FFXIV is known for twisting it however they see fit. Just a reminder, tanking as such has never been a thing, except for maybe warriors and knights/paladins, the former with Provoke, the latter with Cover.

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Originally Posted by Usho

1. Not all will and you're fooling yourself if you think that.

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YOU are fooling yourself, if you think SE will do any originally stuff for BLU...

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Originally Posted by Usho

2. In FFXIV, all mages wear caster gear and its shared. It's a mage, not a tank. Never was a tank, and probably/hopefully never will be a tank.

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Yes, and all meeles wear the same gear too. ooops...
they can introduce new gear for BLU, or they just put INT on the tank gear because SE is lazy... hellooo tank in a robe(?) also healers are mages too, with different gear, with different stats...

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Originally Posted by Usho

4. Without a good HP pool the BLU will not survive even with damage resistance/reduction. They might not get a auto-regen.

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the only reason this will not work is because it's totally OP. a healer can cap the low HP pool of a BLU with literally no healing at all, while the BLU benefits from a strong dmg reduction. this will make healers even more useless...

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Originally Posted by Usho

You can't use FF8, FF9 or FFX as sources. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

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so they have four different designs for the class? why not add a fifth? a BLU can adapt to new concepts very well i guess^^

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Originally Posted by Usho

We done here? Good. /blist GG

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blacklisting people with different opinions? please add me too ^^/

What if they....wait for it...wait fooor it....

make it all 3

WHAT?

HOW COULD THEY?

OMG THATS INSANITY!

YOU ARE A FOOL!

I know I know but hear me out.

Blue is a magic specialist that pulls abilities for creatures in the world around them and we have creatures that could in their own way be considered one of the 3 archetypes we have. So blue could have 3 "stances" depending on what abilities they draw from. So we could have a blue tank, healer or dps by simply changing out the spell set. It would be kindda funky with stats but our stats are so simplistic anyway that its an easy go around. Use int for instance, improves dps in dps stance, healing could scale off it instead of mind in heal stance and could boost hp and def like vit in tank stance. secondary stats are basically all stacked the same for the most part. So single gear sets for blue all work. Or they could replace primary stats with a unique one and give it its own gear.

It would satisfy all types of players and it would allow for people to heal or dps or tank as needed. These stances could also be locked in instances so no one trolls or abuses the system.

They could also do the same for dancer if you really want to go there. dnc in xi could switch between the 3 roles for the most part.

I’d play a BLU tank, sounds refreshing, let me hold enmity with spells!

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Originally Posted by Usho

. Only FFV and FFXI gave us what square designed the class to be.

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https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Mighty_Guard - 25% defense increase, haste, regen
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Barrier_Tusk - damage reduction and by passes the soft cap of 50%, no other job in 11 can do this via spells or naturally
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Cocoon - 50% defense increase
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Metallic_Body - Stone skin
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Occultation - Can take up to 12 single target hits, auto attacks or TP moves and reduces the damage to 0.

Not quite too sure why you're trying to say that BLU can't be a tank then you turn around and use FF11 as one of the main inspirations for the job, when it's been able to be turned into a tank since Day One and has always been a favored job for low man content and currently at 99 can tank just about any boss in the game that does not have a mechanic to pentalize a party for having a Blue mage as a member (Yes, SE has made bosses that will wipe a group simply because you have a BLU in the party).

BLU has the best spell rotation in the game currently to maintain hate.
BLU brought forth the first consistent cleave parties in FF11 ( Able to pull multiple monsters and kill them all solo, once only done through Special abilities that lasted 2hrs with summoner....)
BLU has some of the best defensive spells in the game.
BLU can go over the - physical and - magical damage taken down cap.

If anything FF11 could be used as a basis for BLU as a tank in 14. But on the same token it could also be the basis for a Healer or DPS too or any mixture of the 3.

I am sure we could come up with a fun and interesting lore reason, for why BLU spells are all instant cast or extremely short cast compared to other mages.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

I am sure we could come up with a fun and interesting lore reason, for why BLU spells are all instant cast or extremely short cast compared to other mages.

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There's already some lore that could fit an original interpretation of a blue mage, and work for a tank.

Magitek.

Garleans magitek is basically the repurposing and replication the powers of primals and beastkin.
Think Ultima Weapon using the essences of Ifrit, Titan and Garuda but on a smaller scale.

Utilising a kind of magitek force field that absorbs damage and converts in into aether, can translate hits taken into magic.
Blue flavoured magic.

Could also explain it being a mage in heavy armour and not requiring cast times, because it's magitek and not incantations and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Seku

...and currently at 99 can tank just about any boss in the game that does not have a mechanic to penalize a party for having a Blue mage as a member (Yes, SE has made bosses that will wipe a group simply because you have a BLU in the party).

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I don't have a stake in this discussion (yet), but could you elaborate on which enemies did this? I'm genuinely curious and might read up on it later.


It's seems like a terribly specific and rude move to design fights that way.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I don't have a stake in this discussion (yet), but could you elaborate on which enemies did this? I'm genuinely curious and might read up on it later.


It's seems like a terribly specific and rude move to design fights that way.

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November 2017's Ambuscade. The boss for that months rotation would only have access to a move known as "quenching hammer" if any buff was on a party member and if BLU, RUN, PLD, or DRK was in the party. This would then drain the parties MP down to near 0 and in most cases 1-hit koed players that were not defensively geared. Unlike 14 where the super moves are predictable, 11 just throws them out at random. The main method of dealing with the boss just ended up being storing TP and having people skill chain instead while also keeping the Bosses TP at 0.

The only reason they did it is because currently a geared BLU can do anything (Heal, Tank, Melee-DPS, Magic-DPS) and is taken to just about every event. The only limit is that you have to know prior to going into the fight what your role is.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ambuscade_Archive

They should've announced BLU on April Fool's day to reinforce that it just isn't going to happen.

And now the job you've all been waiting for! Have you ever wanted all your moves to have a 3-second telegraph before going off? Have you ever thought "I want 100 different move names where 95 of them do exactly the same thing with 1 of 3 most common aoe markers"? Well your wait is over folks!

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

This.

In addition is the Blue Magic spellset to take into account.

There's not enough healing magic in there to warrant making it a healer, and while it could potentially be a utility DPS, we already have that in RDM, and nobody wants BLU to be a RDM clone.

The Blue Magic set actually lends itself very well to being a Tank. You have a good mix of mitigation and utility, and the damaging spells would thematically suit aggro generation as being flashy 'stolen' moves.

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It does. Also, there were plenty of people that would PLD/BLU in FFXI because you could go into complete adamantoise mode and just take 0 damage.

I am also of the mind that BLU should be a tank. There are plenty of spells that could lend itself to tanking. A healer, however would feel a bit forced. And pls not another DPS ><

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Originally Posted by Seku

Not quite too sure why you're trying to say that BLU can't be a tank then you turn around and use FF11 as one of the main inspirations for the job, when it's been able to be turned into a tank since Day One and has always been a favored job for low man content and currently at 99 can tank just about any boss in the game that does not have a mechanic to pentalize a party for having a Blue mage as a member (Yes, SE has made bosses that will wipe a group simply because you have a BLU in the party).

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Cause it won't. We had this debate about SAM pre-SB remember? Blu is a MAGE. Look at FF history and lore. BLU was never made for the tanking role despite having defensive and restorative spells, it's a CASTER.

If you're tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it's meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.

You can try to justify it being a tank all you want guys, but the reality is it's not and it won't. Just as much as you want Dancer to be a healer, it won't. But you can live in denial if you want. Remember the SAM tank debates? People complained and wanted it to be a tank. Guess what? It's a MELEE DPS. SAMs wear light/not so heavy armor and have some tankish kind of skills but its not a tank is it? DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since Cecil's DRK in FFIV was more so a tank, while in FFXI they were a DPS job.

BLU is a Mage. Mages make for terrible tanks, especially in this game. That is the reality.

FFXI was bit more versatile since their was no real exact balance with the jobs, but even in FFXI BLU was never really tank material and most of time, ppl brought in blu for procs and their chain bursts. But in FFXIV, the game is plagued by the trinity system, there's no "subjobs" and learning blu spells in this game for sure won't be as interesting as in FFXI and FFV. And getting interrupted while trying to cast a spell, while also trying to hold onto aggro is a bad decision and it will be especially bad for newbies.

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.


GG.

Dunno if it was mentioned but allegedly the new lore book mentions that Mamool Ja originate from a landmass to the south and that they practice Blue Magic. Also near that landmass is Thavanair, which is a middle eastern style desert island. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the FFXI themed Blue Mage appear in FFXIV. Hopefully that's the case, because FFXI's Blue Mage was the best incarnation of BLU in the entire series. They were silent and mysterious, they could fade in and out of space, they absorbed the essence of creatures they fought but always had an internal struggle within them to sort out the energy of the various beasts' souls they harbored within (with the help of their AF armor). When BLUs couldn't contain the beasts within they went berserk and turned into Soulflayers too. Overall, a really cool job.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.
GG.

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FF5: Blue Mage had average Strength and could equip a couple swords, but were better at casting.

FF6: Strago was a pure caster and his main weapon were Staves/Rods, so no...he wasn't a melee caster.
FF7: Enemy Skill materia could be used by anyone so I guess anyone could be a caster/dps.
FF8: Quistis was a jack-of-all-trades in terms of stats, but again, anyone could be a melee caster dps.
FF9: Quina had Fork and used Blue Magic, but his/her Strength growth and Fork damage was the 3rd lowest in the game, only above Vivi/Eiko.
FF10: Kimahri was a melee/caster I guess so this is true.
FF11: BLU was a melee/caster, so this is true.
FFTA: BLU was a melee caster
FFX-2: Magic Gunner was a total caster and didn't melee at all (weapon was a pistol).

So no, BLU was not always a pure melee caster dps.

Also, DRK was never a tank except in FF: Dimensions. DRK converts HP into Damage in every game it's been in except XIV, where it was changed to MP to make them a viable tank. Same could be said for BLU if made into a tank. They could make their main stat VIT, and their spells scale with the caster's "Vitality" or their inner essence combined with souls of enemy's they've absorbed/copied

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Originally Posted by Usho

DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since

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you undid your own argument right there.

SE can and will do whatever they want. They made the quintessential melee DPS class from another game into a tank.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Magitek. [...]
Could also explain it being a mage in heavy armour and not requiring cast times, because it's magitek and not incantations and whatnot.

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This is a reasonable possibility for how blue mage could be a heavy armor tank. We don't need another heavy armor tank right now, though; we need any kind of tank but a heavy armor tank. The people who want to play heavy armor tanks are already playing heavy armor tanks. We need a tank for the people who want to tank using a different tank type.

This game pigeon holes all tanks into heavy armor. As a side note, if Blue Mage were a tank in caster gear, they would potentially be behind in gearing compared to existing tanks because then they'd have to compete with the 3 other casters for gear drops in content.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Or, because a blue mage would be a caster/melee hybrid like Red, it has weaponskill for aggro and spells for DPS, with some instant cast spells (Just like all the gcds other tanks have) as additional aggro and defensive abilities.

There's no reason why that couldn't work.

Have it keep all the same stats as the other tanks incl. Strength, explain it as blue magic not being the casters own aether but the gathered aether of aggrod enemies.
Have the iconic blue magic spells utilise a job gauge instead of MP.
Sorted.

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Have you ever played a tank class? There are things called combos with 0 CD- rdm abilities are all CD

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

"Blue mages have used other weapons, but no other jobs have used dual swords."


"A job that wields dual swords, casts elemental magic, and debuffing spells, NOT being a blue mage... would be very, very odd, and a completely missed opportunity considering people want a blue mage."

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You want dual swords go be Kiriti in SAO

We already have a NIN who uses dual swords

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

I’d play a BLU tank, sounds refreshing, let me hold enmity with spells!

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Yup while you lose agro while spending 4 seconds casting a spell.....

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

You want dual swords go be Kiriti in SAO

We already have a NIN who uses dual swords

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Daggers, long daggers, depending on the skin, NIN weapons range from dagger to barely a short sword. There's also the way they hold their weapons as well. Dual swords, done right, sounds pretty fun to me. We could also use another full physical tank like WAR.

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Yup while you lose agro while spending 4 seconds casting a spell.....

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Unmend and Unleash are spells...

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Yup while you lose agro while spending 4 seconds casting a spell.....

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The longest spell in this game besides a hardcast Raise is 3.5 seconds, and -- more importantly -- over a third of all offensive spells used by non-turret casters are instant casts...

So why would that be an issue a BLU would face, tank or otherwise? Why wouldn't it simply be all instant casts, or, on the rare case, a channel as per a (mobile) Flamethrower?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Could also explain it being a mage in heavy armour and not requiring cast times, because it\\'s magitek and not incantations and whatnot.

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If we are going to have a mage tank, I would prefer one without the Heavy armor, I would want it’s defense to come from its magic.

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Originally Posted by Usho

If you\\'re tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it\\'s meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.
GG.

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Aside from the fact that there are such things as instant cast spells, we can look to the level 64 PLD trait Divine Magic Mastery:

Halves MP cost for all spells while preventing casting interruptions via damage taken.

Something like that would most likely be a core BLU trait.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Cause it won't. We had this debate about SAM pre-SB remember? Blu is a MAGE. Look at FF history and lore. BLU was never made for the tanking role despite having defensive and restorative spells, it's a CASTER.

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What Lore? I don't recall any FF in the main number series (ie: not tatics) outside of 11 actually setting up lore for Blu outside of it being a job that learns monsters abilities and can be filled in as any role.

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Originally Posted by Usho

If you're tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it's meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.

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Why would they give BLU long cast times? If you're going by FF11 standards a good portion of their physical spells are actually less than a second. A good deal of their defensive spells are less than a second. There are also traits in the game obtained either by leveling or on gear, both in FF11 and 14 that prevent spellcasting interruptions.

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Originally Posted by Usho

You can try to justify it being a tank all you want guys, but the reality is it's not and it won't. Just as much as you want Dancer to be a healer, it won't. But you can live in denial if you want. Remember the SAM tank debates? People complained and wanted it to be a tank. Guess what? It's a MELEE DPS. SAMs wear light/not so heavy armor and have some tankish kind of skills but its not a tank is it? DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since Cecil's DRK in FFIV was more so a tank, while in FFXI they were a DPS job.

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No one cares what type of armor they use. Rune Fencer in FF11 (the same FF you base BLU off of) uses light weight armor as well, it actually shares it's non Job specific gear with BLU and it's one of the go - to tanks, It also has to rotate Phalanx, Crusade, Regens, and Temper up all of which take at least 3 seconds to cast. The same can be said about ninja as it has been a tanking power house since day one in 11 who had to use long casting times to maintain hate and defend itself, now it's a DPS in 14. Different games have different roles for each of the jobs. Cecil's DRK in FF4 being a tank? You mean the tank that kills itself to do AOE damage? Yeah no. If anything SE took the Tank design of Rune Fencer from FF11 and slapped Dark Knight's Aesthetics all over it. A tank whoms primary weapon is a 2-handed sword and who focuses on magical defense.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Rune_Fencer

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Originally Posted by Usho

BLU is a Mage. Mages make for terrible tanks, especially in this game. That is the reality.
FFXI was bit more versatile since their was no real exact balance with the jobs, but even in FFXI BLU was never really tank material and most of time, ppl brought in blu for procs and their chain bursts. But in FFXIV, the game is plagued by the trinity system, there's no "subjobs" and learning blu spells in this game for sure won't be as interesting as in FFXI and FFV. And getting interrupted while trying to cast a spell, while also trying to hold onto aggro is a bad decision and it will be especially bad for newbies.

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Mages make for terrible tanks because they've all been designed this way currently in 14, this is reality. Just like how all jobs that were not design with the ability to main tank in 14 will die in a single tank buster in just about any raid. This is reality and your logic is flawed. Why? Because they could always design and implement a mage that can tank.

Sounds like you only played BLU during the abyessa era. As no one really did skill chains at the time of Blue mages release and nothing "proct" for at least 3-5 years later when Abyessa was released. During it's initial release the good thing that stood out about Blu was it's ability to chain head butt back to back and keep a mob stunned as well as being able to easily do a small burst of damage to enemies with extremely low defense that also drained their MP dry. This is why you'll never be able to find any end game content that took BLU to anything outside of instance events for that period (Limbus, Dynamis, Assaults, Salvage), where it could at this point in time Tank, Back Up heal, Mediocre DPS. In anything else they were forced to SA(force crit) cannonballs, which other well-geared and knowledgeable players destroyed them. However as they've given it more spells it's ability to tank, dps, and heal have also gone up with it eventually making it able to replace any role in the party assuming the BLU was geared for said role and had spells for said role.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.

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Then why can it both heal and tank along side the the other roles you just mentioned in almost every incarnation of the job? Tanking mainly being relevant for FF11 since there was no way to really "tank" other than the flimsy and random cover skill in any other FF? Rather it be a tank or not is up in the air. But your reasoning for it not being able to be such is flimsy at best.

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

This game pigeon holes all tanks into heavy armor. As a side note, if Blue Mage were a tank in caster gear, they would potentially be behind in gearing compared to existing tanks because then they'd have to compete with the 3 other casters for gear drops in content.

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And this is the only valid point as to why BLU wouldn't be a tank in 14, and is more based around what lengths they'd be willing to go to actually make it into a tank. Rather than "if they can"

Imagine having blue mage in any raid type content compared to other tanks. What would that blue mage have to be to actually tank? I feel it would need to specialize so heavily on one aspect of being a blue mage that it would lose out on actually being a blue mage.

I think the best option is a dps blue mage with an extensive utility kit. He isn't a tank but he has an ability that lets him tank for 20 seconds. He's not a healer but he has some potent heals he can throw out in a pinch. Trying to focus something as versatile as a blue mage into one small part of what it should be wouldnt do the class justice.

I agree that blue mage should be a tank. It fits with a lot of thematic things for Blue mage. Most specifically the type of blue mage (or enemy skill materia) where you have to be hit to learn the ability. Sure, they probably won't do it to where you learn the ability that way, because that just doesn't fit in FFXIV, but I'm fine with that. Blue mage is also considered a tank in the Final Fantasy Explorers. Though it could also become a healer pretty well and an okay DPS. All and all though, Blue mage is my favorite class, I bring any character that is even somewhat a blue mage everywhere I can. So I'll play it no matter what they turn it into.