Housing restrictions not fair for individuals.

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Originally Posted by Derio

People have been able to upgrade their personal houses locking many FCs out of the chance of even getting a house. SMH

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Relocating a house, personal or FC, doesn’t remove an available plot. It means another opened up elsewhere. Unless you meant locking FCs out of M/L lots, then sure. A previously homeless FC would be grateful to even have a S though.

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

That statement makes no sense, all you're doing is prioritizing what you believe to be more important because decorating a house isn't an essential thing to you.

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That statement makes no sense, all you're doing is prioritizing what you believe to be more important because being able to create and expand a free company isnt an essential thing to you.

Look, bottom line is, free companies actually impact gameplay, not just of the owner but of all the members. Having a house for a free company means that all of the members get access to many many mechanics that otherwise they wouldnt be able to use.

You not having access to it means you don't get to play house.

Enjoyment of multiple people by buying one house and giving their FC access to the things they need to grow > your singular enjoyment you would get from decorating one.

You can't put the need of the one over the needs of the many. That's being selfish. :P

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

Add....More....Wards..... it's really not that hard, only making excuses.

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WOW, I'm sure SE hasn't thought of that. Great suggestion.

My problem is that its allowing Private house owners who owned a small house upgrade to a large house, thats the case on my server, i'm not seeing FCs getting large houses. Ive been playing since 1.0 and ive been patiently waiting to get my hands on a medium or large. But all I am seeing is private house owners who own a small house upgrading to a large or medium. How is that fair? They should not of allowed private house owners to relocate, I can understand FCs and thats cool but what were they thinking of locking people from buying private houses but letting people who already own a private house relocate? lol that makes absolutely no sense to me.

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

Did you even read the post V.V

FC members don't NEED it any more than us individuals NEED our own space. If they can't use the workshops then they are missing out on a part of the game they want to enjoy, if we can't get our own space to decorate we're missing out on a part of the game WE want to enjoy. You cannot possibly justify that an FC's wants are more important than anyone elses, so many other MMOs have found a compromise and a AAA company like SE should have figured it out by now.

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What? Is this a serious comparison post? You're comparing having ' your own space' to the buffs, airships, and crafting workshops available to an FC? No, you want to enjoy decorating a house. FCs need these things in order to properly function as, you guessed it, an FC. I don't agree with the situation the devs have painted for us, but this is the best solution that they can give at this point in time. If you want your own space, be like the rest of us hoping for a personal house and just wait. Or are you proposing we have another Shirogane Extreme episode. That went extremely well.

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Originally Posted by Wolfleader

My problem is that its allowing Private house owners who owned a small house upgrade to a large house, thats the case on my server, i'm not seeing FCs getting large houses. Ive been playing since 1.0 and ive been patiently waiting to get my hands on a medium or large. But all I am seeing is private house owners who own a small house upgrading to a large or medium. How is that fair? They should not of allowed private house owners to relocate, I can understand FCs and thats cool but what were they thinking of locking people from buying private houses but letting people who already own a private house relocate? lol that makes absolutely no sense to me.

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I agree - by far the worst decision SE made when making the new wards live.

I had hoped that it was just the new wards that would be under the new restrictions, letting individual take up the scattering of small plots that have appeared on the old wards.
It was an idle hope, especially as by the time it does open up to individuals I will probably be back at work and no longer able to get one on time.
Oh well.

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

Add....More....Wards..... it's really not that hard, only making excuses.

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If it really wasn't that hard then um, they would have done that a very long time ago. It's not an excuse, its in the coding. As it is now its showing very clearly they're scrambling for space. The wards as per their coding are loaded into the games memory 24/7 and all objects fully rendered. Every tree, mailbox, bench, outside customization, EVERYTHING is loaded. They don't simply just shut down as per normal instances when no one is in them. For every new ward they add, that's more strain on their systems. Space is not infinite.

I only wish they'd tell when they will lift the restriction. Is it just for the early hours? Days? Weeks? I'd hate to log in just to find out everything is gone :P

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Originally Posted by Petori

I only wish they'd tell when they will lift the restriction. Is it just for the early hours? Days? Weeks? I'd hate to log in just to find out everything is gone :P

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I think they are planning to see how market responded and remove the restriction if enough houses don't sell.

I have been waiting for the chance to buy my own ingame house, but I do agree that free company (those that are used by the a FC and not someone who created one, so they could have a house) deserve to own one first over the individuals. Free Company can use the house and its features to create their own community stuff and alot of content/features are locked behind it.

This is why I am fine with not getting a house this time, let those with free company get it first.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

I think they are planning to see how market responded and remove the restriction if enough houses don't sell.

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Which is going to be hard, given that every server is different. My own server still has a few Larges left in LB, Mist, and Gob. I'm sure a server like Balmung has nothing open by now. My guess is they open it up at next week's maintenance.

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Originally Posted by seraf

I've seen people do some really amazing things with the limited space that Small Plots have.

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https://i.imgur.com/tMVLpuk.png (Credit to Alice Lucis'caelum on Ultros)

Like this for a first floor.

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

Did you even read the post V.V

FC members don't NEED it any more than us individuals NEED our own space. If they can't use the workshops then they are missing out on a part of the game they want to enjoy, if we can't get our own space to decorate we're missing out on a part of the game WE want to enjoy. You cannot possibly justify that an FC's wants are more important than anyone elses, so many other MMOs have found a compromise and a AAA company like SE should have figured it out by now.

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FC affect a much larger group than you. Haven't you ever made use of the EXP bonus, MGP bonus, crafting bonus or any other of the FC buffs? You're comparing your needs to the needs of 4-50 people

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Originally Posted by Derio

System should have went to FCs for the first week and then personal the next week.

People have been able to upgrade their personal houses locking many FCs out of the chance of even getting a house. SMH

SE messed it up again.

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i don't think you understand this at all.
The personal moves just free up space elsewhere. On behemoth ward 1 of the 3 original zones have open houses now. The demo time is only like an hour

even a small house makes a fully functioning guild house btw

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

Oh yes, I should be content with fitting 3+ people in a small house because we refuse to leave our FC to enjoy the game. Makes TOTAL sense -_-

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LOL are you for real? You're too good for small houses? My FC has 16 people, we are in a small house and it works for us just fine. Of course people can have their own space in FC apartments but that option is available to you as well. You could even have an apartment in your FC, a personal apartment in the ward of your choice AND a small house to share. Hell, you and your friends could each get your own small houses next door to each other in a nice area of one of the new empty wards once personal housing reopens because location matters way more than size. There's tons of mediums I could move us to right now because I have the money to do it but I like where we are. Our FC house is in an isolated spot with an amazing view and a market board right next to it. I'm not giving that up for a medium crammed in so close to other houses that I can smell everyone else's farts and the closest market board is halfway across the ward.

In short, you already have lots of options to "have your own space(s) to decorate" solo and with your friends. You're just throwing a tantrum because you think you're too good for them.

Honestly, if you feel like you too good for a small, you probably shouldn’t have a house to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

I'm sure a server like Balmung has nothing open by now.

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Well... there are still several plots open on Balmung actually. Mostly smalls, naturally, but I'm actually pretty amazed. If housing had stayed FC restricted all along, we might not even have needed this latest batch of wards.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well... there are still several plots open on Balmung actually. Mostly smalls, naturally, but I'm actually pretty amazed. If housing had stayed FC restricted all along, we might not even have needed this latest batch of wards.

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Sarg is Still pretty big, but it still has a ton of houses available, even some mediums as well. If people truly wanted a house, they can get one. I don’t understand the complaints here.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

Honestly, if you feel like you too good for a small, you probably shouldn’t have a house to begin with.

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What a bs.
I own a small house, but later I want to upgrade it to bigger house, cuz I want more space for myself only. I feel like small house is just not enough for my ideas in decoration and I don't want to share it with FC, I want it to be mine. If you don't like your apartment irl and have money for a house you just find a nice place and voilà. Just cuz SE has very poor housing system doesn't mean that people should only have small personal houses.

There’s no edit button on mobile (how dumb lol). I didn’t mean complaints from you btw, just whoever is complaining lol

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

What a bs.
I own a small house, but later I want to upgrade it to bigger house, cuz I want more space for myself only. I feel like small house is just not enough for my ideas in decoration and I don't want to share it with FC, I want it to be mine. If you don't like your apartment irl and have money for a house you just find a nice place and voilà. Just cuz SE has very poor housing system doesn't mean that people should only have small personal houses.

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No one cares about your selfishness, honey.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

No one cares about your selfishness, honey.

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Selfishness? Ok:D
Better be selfish than watch half of those *FC* houses being empty for ages with no signs of life in it.

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Originally Posted by aeoncs

There are still countless Small Plots available at the moment, it's not like he won't still have his chance once individuals are allowed to purchase new plots. It's absolutely fair that FCs get dibs on Large and Medium houses.

The whole housing system is still broken though, it's just not quite as bad as before.

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If FCs had dibs specifically on medium and large houses, the rules would have disallowed relocating a personal house to medium and large plots. The only thing that FCs have dibs on is getting a house in the first place.

In my opinion, the entire community should have access to houses equally.
FCs already have an advantage when it comes to owning houses, as FCs typically have several people who can pool their money together quickly.
A lone person wanting a house is going to have a much harder time to get that same amount together, and they should be rewarded for it.
FCs really didn't need to have priority.

There's actually quite a few FCs out there that only have one active person in them, and many people share houses with friends, so I wouldn't call people wanting individual houses selfish.
I share my medium house with two other people.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

FCs really didn't need to have priority.

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FC's = Large groups of people that need houses for functions and mechanics they provide that allow them to have basic functions and features of a free company.
Private Housing = Decorations are pretty.

Yeah sure, FC's don't need priority.

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Originally Posted by Cinno

FC's = Large groups of people that need houses for functions and mechanics they provide that allow them to have basic functions and features of a free company.
Private Housing = Decorations are pretty.

Yeah sure, FC's don't need priority.

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FC's= Something a lot of people sell later when houses are sold out, to make money on it. Many FCs have very few members active. Can have a huge amount of income with airships, that individuals do not have access to.
Private housing= Farming plots, convenient market place, summoning bell, hair stylist locations. Also can be a social hub of a few friends. Some are well used by the RP community.
Besides, my "Private Kwehstate" adds much needed chocobo-ness to the community :P

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Originally Posted by Cinno

FC's = Large groups of people that need houses for functions and mechanics they provide that allow them to have basic functions and features of a free company.
Private Housing = Decorations are pretty.

Yeah sure, FC's don't need priority.

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The only reason FCs need priority is because SE has screwed up housing so badly that thre's a scarcity problem while they also allowed a speculator market to run for years. This isn't reality, it's not hard to add more capacity to make this problem go away.

Acting like it's the players fault for wanting access to a heavily advertised feature of a premium subscription game is beyond absurd. This is entirely SE's fault from begining to end, and they still haven't addressed it. With this latest round of changes they're just hoping enough people are mollified that the subset of those being shafted is small enough to ignore.

I'm looking at the Ward list and there are lots of personal housing that got purchased this time around both in the old and new wards.

I don't think there's gonna be anything available for the next release if this keeps up.

Edit: I'm stupid, apparently relocating was allowed for some reasoan? So much for this being FC only.

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Originally Posted by Cinno

Let me adjust my statement: Within the current (bad) system the devs have designed, and without spending the necessary dev time and large chunk of the (presumably small) budget given to them by SE, this is the fairest thing they could have done.

We have to be realistic, they have invested too much time and too much money in the Wards system to justify scrapping it and starting over, and starting over is the only way they can fix the mess they've created. So, without them starting over completely, making it so the people that actually need the space (FC's) can get it over the people that simply want the space, was a fair choice.

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Letting individuals who already have three houses relocate to better spots freely is "fair"? That's allowed right now, and in fact all this new space made it easier. While that's going on, tons of people are locked out entirely.

It's in no way fair. Arguably, this system is the most unfair thing in the entire game, because it's the only part of it where people can be completely locked out and told to sod off while other people hoard multiple properties and they're told "sure, go ahead and upgrade to the beach front version, there's no competition now!"

They did manage to fix it for free companies, kinda, except for all the individuals relocating to larger properties since those aren't locked to FC only. But to call it "fair" is abusive of the English language.

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Individual players can function just fine without a house. FC's meanwhile, are hindered by not having access to basics like gardening, airships/subs, company worshop as a whole, and the use of the aetherial wheel for fc buffs (which is helpful for smaller fc's that are lacking in credits.)

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Individual players can function just fine without lots of things, but none of them are rationed and restricted except housing. There's no other part of the game that says "oh you didn't get one during that mad scrable on a specific day, so too bad, now have some event rewards that you can't use because they only work on a housing exterior."

For how much this game costs, this is amateur hour. It's in no way acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

This isn't reality, it's not hard to add more capacity to make this problem go away.

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It IS hard, for various reasons listed in this thread that people seem to just keep ignoring. They cant just wave their hands and make the servers able to handle more. While the houses themselves are instances, the wards are not. They are constant. That means that unlike instances that get unloaded when no ones there, the wards are always up. Constantly running, keeping everything loaded. Keeping track of every lamp post and bench in the ward itself, what all the npc's are doing, as well as keeping track of every single bit of decoration on every housing exterior of every house in the ward. The way they designed it, Wards are very server intensive, and the servers can only handle so much. Why everyone on here thinks that they can just wave their hands and POOF INSTANT MORE WARDS, i'll never understand.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

This is entirely SE's fault from begining to end, and they still haven't addressed it.

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But they are addressing it, just not in the way that you want. In order to fully fix the issue they would have the redo the housing system from the ground up, or at the very least they would have to make the wards instanced (which is a huge amount of work in itself, hindered in part by the games ancient code) which would present problems of its own. This would also require a large chunk of dev time, which they would need to be payed for.. their pay comes out of the budget, which is definitely not infinite. So therefore the funds to pay the devs to completely rebuild the housing system from the ground up would mean they can't get paid to work on other content. That means less new content, less QoL updates, etc.

It IS being addressed. Their housing system is badly designed, But it's what we have. We have to deal with it, and they have to do whatever they can to make it work. They're trying, at the very least.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

There's no other part of the game that says "oh you didn't get one during that mad scrable on a specific day, so too bad, now have some event rewards that you can't use because they only work on a housing exterior."

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So Free Companies (groups of 4-500 people) should get shafted instead? "oh you didn't get one during that mad scrable on a specific day, so too bad, now can't have access to basic functions and mechanics that are required for your free company to grow and be successful."

The needs of an entire free company, the happyness and enjoyment of an ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE is somehow less important than your desire to decorate a house?

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

FC's= Something a lot of people sell later when houses are sold out, to make money on it. Many FCs have very few members active. Can have a huge amount of income with airships, that individuals do not have access to.

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Huge is really overstating it. You can make more with a level 70 mining retainer than 4 airships currently. Fat stacks were had when there was a flashy new mount, but the cash cow has been milked pretty dry currently.

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Originally Posted by Cinno

It IS hard, for various reasons listed in this thread that people seem to just keep ignoring. They cant just wave their hands and make the servers able to handle more.

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Actually, they can. Scaling servers out is easier today than it's ever been. I can literally log into a console, push some buttons, and 15 minutes later add a bunch of capacity to my pool. There's a cost to that, but remind me what we're paying for again?

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While the houses themselves are instances, the wards are not. They are constant. That means that unlike instances that get unloaded when no ones there, the wards are always up. Constantly running, keeping everything loaded. Keeping track of every lamp post and bench in the ward itself, what all the npc's are doing, as well as keeping track of every single bit of decoration on every housing exterior of every house in the ward. The way they designed it, Wards are very server intensive, and the the servers can only handle so much. Why everyone on here thinks that they can just wave their hands and POOF INSTANT MORE WARDS, i'll never understand.

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Yes, I'm aware of how wards work. LotRO did that a decade ago. They had the same problem. They then solved it by saying "if all the wards are full, spin up a new one until that stops happening". Server capacity is cheaper, more powerful, and easier to deploy now than it was then. The lovely thing about instances is that they scale out well: you can add another server to handle a bunch of them without adding a ton of load to what any other server is already doing.

At some point, it ceases to be "woe is me it's technically hard!" and turns into "if they actually wanted to fix the problem, they would put resources into fixing it." Because that's how you fix technical problems. What they're doing is applying band aids and hoping that the number of people being screwed over by their constant failures gets small enough that they can ignore them. And that's a management decision at the end of the day, not a technical one.

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But they are addressing it, just not in the way that you want. In order to fully fix the issue they would have the redo the housing system from the ground up, or at the very least they would have to make the wards instanced (which is a huge amount of work in itself, hindered in part by the games ancient code) which would present problems of its own. This would also require a large chunk of dev time, which they would need to be payed for.. their pay comes out of the budget, which is definitely not infinite. So therefore the funds to pay the devs to completely rebuild the housing system from the ground up would mean they can't get paid to work on other content. That means less new content, less QoL updates, etc.

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Adding an apartment option that has an exterior balcony (and thus supports gardening and exterior decoration) would solve the problem for a lot of people, and apartments are fully instanced already. Would that take effort? Sure. But actually fixing the problem takes effort.

This is not fixing it. This is the only feature of the game where people are told "nope, we're full, go away" based on nothing except the timing of when you happened to be around. Missed the godawful login queue of 4.1? Too bad, nothing for you. Until that is addressed, the problem isn't fixed.

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It IS being addressed. Their housing system is badly designed, But it's what we have. We have to deal with it, and they have to do whatever they can to make it work. They're trying, at the very least.

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And this is the adult business world. "Trying" matters less than success and failure do. Since the problem isn't fixed and there's no indication it will be, I'm not going to be handing out participation awards.

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So Free Companies (groups of 4-500 people) should get shafted instead? "oh you didn't get one during that mad scrable on a specific day, so too bad, now can't have access to basic functions and mechanics that are required for your free company to grow and be successful."

The needs of an entire free company, the happyness and enjoyment of an ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE is somehow less important than your desire to decorate a house?

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Actually fixing the problem would fix it for FCs as well. That's what "fixing it" means. Acting like players are the enemy of FCs getting a house when the real problem is that SE can't figure out how to treat server resources like it's 2018 and not 1996 is not the fault of players who want to have access to features that SE advertises.

You want to make it so that housing is FC only? Fine. Lets do that. Nuke ALL player houses. Now there's tons of space for FCs and every player is on equal footing. That's fair.

If they kept the new plots for FCs only I wouldn't have an issue but giving VIP passes to those who already own a personal house so they can upgrade without much competition irks me. They don't even tell when we homeless plebs can buy a house.

So much for fairness and I quote their site:

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The following adjustments have been made to provide more players access to housing and its features.

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

Problem is that small plots are a total waste of time, honestly they shouldn't even exist. But don't worry, I plan to sit here and watch as anything worth buying gets snatched up seeing as we have no choice at this point. Again, I don't see how it's so hard to actually add more wards. The only thing they are doing is pissing off the community and turning people off of games like this.

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Either you're horrible at decorating, or all your neighbors with small plots haven't a clue what they are doing.

My small plot's the best thing ever, and a small plot is better than no plot. To me it sounds more like you're throwing a tantrum over not getting a home more than anything.
It is absolutely fairer that FCs get priority over medium and big houses.

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Originally Posted by Petori

If they kept the new plots for FCs only I wouldn't have an issue but giving VIP passes to those who already own a personal house so they can upgrade without much competition irks me. They don't even tell when we homeless plebs can buy a house.

So much for fairness and I quote their site:

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Players that move are effectively changing nothing when it comes to room available. Their old plots will be open, so I really don't see the issue.

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Originally Posted by HoloKraft

Problem is that small plots are a total waste of time, honestly they shouldn't even exist.

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Beggars can’t be choosers.

Does the current system suck? Absolutely; I will never disagree that the Housing in this game could be better, and I am a firm advocate of Instanced Housing. But for you to just blatantly refuse to even get a small house in a game where not even half the playerbase owns one just because you think you’re better than those “Rank 5 Smalls” (btw, I owned one of those shoddy plots for a year—Ward 3, Plot 14 in the Lavender Beds—and it was beautiful) is absolutely mind-boggling.



On my server, I actually think the majority of large plots went to FCs (at least in the Beds they did from what I saw...few individuals relocated to larger but that was bound to happen), and I’m glad. Shirogane was a war zone and there’s slim pickings left there, but the other three still had several mediums and smalls still available over an hour after the servers went up. Some of the mediums in the Beds and the Mist have some of the best views (and Plot 29/59 in the Beds is the god-tier of small houses...that view of the waterfall right behind the house is breath-taking), and I hope whoever gets them is super happy with their purchase.

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Originally Posted by Ranulf

I'm looking at the Ward list and there are lots of personal housing that got purchased this time around both in the old and new wards.

I don't think there's gonna be anything available for the next release if this keeps up.

Edit: I'm stupid, apparently relocating was allowed for some reasoan? So much for this being FC only.

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Relocating doesn't reduce the number of plots, so they saw no reason to restrict it, when someone moves they leave behind a plot.

Until they just keep fixing the issue at hand with just adding more wards it will never be fair as many will always miss out including those of us trying to get housing since launch.
And seriously some of you are in fact make it sound more complicated then it actually is to add more wards...
Also how does a individual go off saying they are fixing it? Adding more wards does nodda to fix the issue at hand

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Actually, they can. Scaling servers out is easier today than it's ever been.

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This is the point people are missing because most people who haven't worked in the field don't understand how it works. There is little to no reason additional wards would put that much strain on their servers, scalability today is generally no longer a pain point.

It would take a considerable amount of effort to get it done but it's not impossible (especially financially). I suspect that they don't want to address the housing problem and slow down on cramming more stuff into the game. Unfortunately were seeing the down side of always having new trials and content, old problems go unsolved for a LONG time before it gets addressed all for the sake of having more content.

After all, those who want personal housing are just "selfish" right? That mentality is the reason why nothing is getting done which is a joke considering how much we're paying.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Adding more wards does nodda to fix the issue at hand

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Nada. It's spelt Nada.