Auto Combo Buttons in PvE

There's no "optional" with this, because either they balance damage and encounters around everyone just hitting 1 button over and over or they don't, so for the sake of balance they would have to force it on everyone and shift focus on oGCD damage.

Why not just have someone come play the game for you? That way you have to press zero buttons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Why not just have someone come play the game for you? That way you have to press zero buttons.

---

Pressing the same button 3 times vs. pressing 3 different buttons once is practically the same thing. You are still doing 3 button presses, you just get to clear up the clutter that is your hotbar. You can still weave things in as needed - it's not like pressing the button once would perform all three actions instantly. That is still controlled by the player.

It will probably happen eventually for linear combo paths. It was decent when there were fewer abilities and difficulty had to come from somewhere, but most difficulty now comes from buff/dot uptime management, proper oGCD weaving, and mechanics of the encounter itself.

It'll still get the usual cries of 'oh no this will ruin the game', 'I'm unsubbing', and 'we're becoming the game which most not be named', but in truth most classes would barely feel the change because almost every combo in the game branches. PLD for example: Savage Blade and RoH become a single button. That's pretty much it. Fast Blade combos into 2 different abilities so you can't make that a single button. Same with Riot Blade. It's basically just a QoL change to reduce hotbar clutter, but people will still dig their nails into their armchairs about how gamebreakingly bad it's going to be because the benefit of the change isn't immediately obvious.

Pressing 1 2 3 is NOT more difficult than pressing 1 1 1.... which is exactly why I support this. Why should you have three slots on your hotbar assigned to "Basic Attack"? Having a combo is nice because animations, but other than that I don't see why we can't have a single skill with the average potency of the whole combo. Why don't they make more gcd's that aren't part of a combo, like Yoshida's favorite, Black Mage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Why not just have someone come play the game for you? That way you have to press zero buttons.

---

You are suggesting that, but many people are already doing that via bots. Just zoom into frontline sometime >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

You are suggesting that, but many people are already doing that via bots. Just zoom into frontline sometime >.>

---

Bots are not relevant to the conversation, neither is some sarcastic remark claiming people just want someone to play the game for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

Pressing the same button 3 times vs. pressing 3 different buttons once is practically the same thing. You are still doing 3 button presses, you just get to clear up the clutter that is your hotbar. You can still weave things in as needed - it's not like pressing the button once would perform all three actions instantly. That is still controlled by the player.

---

Pressing 3 different buttons while doing mechanics is not the same as pressing the same button while doing mechanics, as shown by people with poor DPS in mechanic intensive fights, if what you said was true we wouldn't have such a big gap between someone who is trying and someone who isn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alimdia

Pressing 3 different buttons while doing mechanics is not the same as pressing the same button while doing mechanics, as shown by people with poor DPS in mechanic intensive fights, if what you said was true we wouldn't have such a big gap between someone who is trying and someone who isn't.

---

The glaring hole in you logic, is that there are no classes at present that requires you to press the 1 button 3 times while doing mechanics so what are you comparing? What makes you think that people who can't handle pressing 3 button in order can handle pressing the same button 3 times?

Let's been clear 123 is not hard, it just isn't we aren't dealing with 8 move combos or time sensitive abilities at present it is literally 123 versus 111. There are valid arguments for why they should not implement this system but difficulty isn't one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dortharl

The glaring hole in you logic, is that there are no classes at present that requires you to press the 1 button 3 times while doing mechanics so what are you comparing? What makes you think that people who can't handle pressing 3 button in order can handle pressing the same button 3 times?

---

Because pressing 1 button 3 times is easier. Also we do have classes that only press one button while doing mechanics, not every class has a combo system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alimdia

Because pressing 1 button 3 times is easier. Also we do have classes that only press one button while doing mechanics, not every class has a combo system.

---

Since your example was about DPS clases (and since a class which presses one button already wouldn't be affected by this system anyway)? I'm genuinely curious which DPS class only uses one button?

And it wouldn't be one button press anyway, it would be one button pressed 3 times for each linear combo, which is very very easy, I just don't think the current system is hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

That would be a horrible, horrible system. Not only would the follow up combos magically end up on another key, you'd have to rebind a bunch of controls just to use it.

If it isn't broken, don't fix it. For my part, I find the PvP system absolutely abhorrent. It takes any nuance out of the game and turns into a button mashing contest. That's not how PvE should become.

---

Eh there was macros and mods that did it in WoW (bar switching stuff), and Aion had a sort of system like it. Worked fine, and was easy to understand. Also any change that throws/removes buttons all over the place will require a bunch of rebinds so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would like to see auto combo functionality in PvE. Combos dictated by the game aren't my idea of engaging combat design. At the very least it would free up a bunch of hotbar space.

They'll have to do it at some point since there will be more and more skills coming until the game reaches the level 99 capacity.

The issues with hotbar space were never that major for me, and I even play on a controller. I had 3 for battle (1 just for PvP skills), 1 for emotes, 1 for gearsets to change quickly between jobs, and I made hotbar 7 my "I use these on every job" hotbar (Return, Teleport, Sprint, etc.) #8 by default was the "system" hotbar, and I left it that way, but never used it. I didn't even use the WXHB.

Then there's all the standard hotbars, including the vertical ones.

I ran very few macros, at the worst, buffs I used together every time, and for MCH/BRD had my finishers (Heartbreak/Misery's End) on a macro with my "1" attack. With melee jobs, I often had room left over on hotbar 2. My PvP hotbar had duplicate skills from the first two for quick access. I didn't NEED an emote hotbar, nor a gearset one.

Where are people having all this trouble with hotbars?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Where are people having all this trouble with hotbars?

---

The issue isn't the fact that we don't have enough hotbar space, because we do, it's more that there is skill bloat and hotbar clutter. There are plenty of skills that could be condensed to a single hotbar button vs. taking up 3 individual spots.

I'd much rather have difficulty come in the form of knowing when to weave in an oGCD skill, or how to deal with the actual in-game mechanics vs. 'difficulty' coming from the dance your fingers have to do in order to fire off skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Where are people having all this trouble with hotbars?

---

It's more about inefficiency, really. Like having a sort of messy room. It's not totally messy, there's still room for other stuff, but why have the clutter there at all if it can be cleaned up? It's still possible to bring more stuff into the room now, but eventually it will fill up and something will have to be done. Just take care of it now before you have to put off new furniture because the room needs to be re-organized first.

There just isn't a reason to have ability A on one button and ability B on another button, when B is the only GCD you want to press after A. Weaving oGCDs will still exist, branching combos will still exist, and people will still screw up both of them. All it does is consolidate the very few abilities that have no business being separate in the first place.

I played Heavensward MCH and still had no issues. And if I recall, Wildfire rotations were enough to deter many from playing it.

I don't know enough about the casters perhaps to say it may or may not be an issue for them, but I really didn't feel like there was much in the way of skill bloat at all. If it wasn't useful/used frequently, I just didn't have it on my bar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dortharl

Since your example was about DPS clases (and since a class which presses one button already wouldn't be affected by this system anyway)? I'm genuinely curious which DPS class only uses one button?

And it wouldn't be one button press anyway, it would be one button pressed 3 times for each linear combo, which is very very easy, I just don't think the current system is hard.

---

No class uses only one button, not even those who would be affected by a consolidation, as last time I checked all melees had skills outside of combos. But what I meant is: bard will use heavy shot most of the time, summoner will use ruin 3 most of the time, machinist will use split shot very often, whm will use stone most of the time, and so.

Of the 9 buttons/skills used in PvP, MCH can unfortunately be played competently with 3 of them alone.

Again, it's not a bad idea to consolidate some things, but I don't feel it's necessary for PvE at all. I don't even feel like it was necessary for PvP which is far more dynamic.

The problem is, this kind of auto combo system would not work for most jobs. Right now, considering the current rotations, the only jobs that would benefit from this change are DRG, NIN, SAM and the 3 tanks. I'm willingly leaving out mch because they can't merge the 3 basic shots without significantly changing how MHC play right now. Anyway, DRG would gain 6 slots, SAM 3 and NIN 2. So in the end, DRG is the only job for which such a system would really make a difference. And it's not like we need more hotbar space, there's plenty of it right now. It might become a problem in the future, but I really hope they won't implement something like this unless they decide to give us more combos and more ogcd .

I fully support auto-combo hotkey as an optional feature. Moving my index finger from 1-3 isn't skill imo and I don't know why having the option to tap 1 on my keyboard three times is dumbing down the game. If someone's prepared to quit the game (as I saw on this thread) just because they let the feeling having multiple keybinds gives them a sense of skill cloud them from optional functionality, then perhaps they're not as skilled as they claim to be

while I can see the auto-combo system being added at some point for PvE (probably after a few more expansions) I can only see the physical Melee class types having a use for it (MNK/PLD/WAR/DRK/DRG/SAM/NIN) & only for their "Single-target" combos. While I'd be okay with it added I would be alright if it was added as an optional feature too, as I would just adapt if it just became norm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dameron

No no no, absolutely not. I think it's bad enough that they added it to PvP as it is, I will immediately quit the game if they decide to bring it over to PvE.

Yes, pressing 1, 1, 1 is easier than pressing 1, 2, 3. But you know what makes it worse? Unlike in dumb and oversimplified games like WoW, DPS have more than just three buttons to press. And yes, having to juggle them all does make the game more challenging.

i play Dragoon. My entire rotation is two combo's while managing and prioritizing my OGCD's competently. Implement this feature, and core rotation literally becomes two buttons. That is disgustingly oversimplified gameplay, and I will never support it to cater the casuals who are so spoiled by WoW and mobile games that they refuse to put any sort of effort into a game.

---

Yes, having to juggle multiple things at once makes anything harder to do and not just games. It's a principal of economy of motion. Not only is it more challenging it can also cause physical harm sometimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princi...motion_economy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dameron

I'm sorry but pressing 123 is no more difficult than pressing 111. There is no more skill involved in either set, you are literally performing the same action only over a slightly different surface area. If your idea of greater skill is more buttons than you really don't have any skill at all. From a practical standpoint if there is no benefit to using any of the individual skills a combo individually than there is no reason to have those skills on separate keys. Note the IF, because that should be the defining factor not some imagined skill level to make people feel more l33t.

You can add whatever ridiculous level of hyperbole you want to put on it, but that doesn't change the fact, once a person has assigned a key to an ability and learned where that ability is, there is no skill involved in pressing those keys in order.

You want to want to add complexity add OGCD abilities that are reliant on fights and mechanics so that you have to think about when and where to use an ability. It's players thinking that using combo's denotes skill that leads to lazy players who are unable to improve and adapt and think pressing 1'2'3 and avoiding aoes means they are playing well.

---

It is more difficult. The more your fingers, hands, body have to travel, the more difficult or straining a motion becomes. This idea is actually beneficial to the relief of hand stress playing a game hundreds of hours. Even myself at times can feel hand soreness when playing XIV for long spurts.

I am saying I don't know if I would like this idea or use it because in practice it does make the game more simple.

If you could access all 256 skills at one time on nothing but the face buttons, and your thumb never had to leave the analog. Your speed in execution would increase by virtue of simple motion economy. It would also allow you to dodge mechanics easier due to not having to remove your thumb from the analog. Obviously the new challenge would be trying to remember the sequence of skills when all of them are rammed into the four face buttons.

Virtually impossible which would lead to having to watch the UI when you don't remember something. If you think about it this even goes to UI stuff. People want their UI/buffs/debuffs/enemy cast bar, simple, in a general same space so no need for the eyes to drift to other parts of the screen resulting in the loss of motion economy to the eyes. People who like minimalist UI sometimes refer to immersion, but another form of that being they want to focus on the action on screen versus surveying 1000 UI statistics. Granted the ones who like to maximize potential, prefer every UI element imaginable to try and gain an edge.

Good idea for comfort and streamlining provided lag doesn't affect the experience. But I don't know if it would be welcomed by all or used if it is optional.

I've been asking this question since I started playing the game a couple months ago and had played some PVP.

It's in the game, so why restrict it to PVP?

In terms of it not working for some classes and working for others, just import the PVP combo buttons to PVE as is ?

what a necro ><

Being able to set up our own auto-combos would be kind of nice. It'd help cut down on sheer button volume and help streamline a few class rotations without turning entirely into macro style "press one button and the game plays its self for you" territory.

Necrooooooo, and NO. The beauty of XIV is that it's approachable yet still somewhat complex. Skill is rewarded but not prohibitively so. No "Press 'X' to win" please. Arcade and phone games are down the hall to the left.

PVE is supposed to be a bit more difficult than PVP.

No... It'd compromise FFXIV's identity imo and make it too much like other MMO's.
The combat system is built around it the PvP combat already feels rly dumbed down as it is.

The reason why there are 1 button combos in PvP is because the combat just isn't suited for PvP inherently and they have to change things for it to make sense.
Same reason why positionals are not in PvP and in PvP you can't rly have a rotation like you do in PvE it's too inconsistent.

I rly don't understand either why some people are so obsessed with pushing as few buttons as possible.
Most Jobs in FFXIV are fairly busy but I wouldn't exactly call it overkill I feel like they're in a pretty perfect spot overall
If you want to spam the same few buttons over and over again there's games like ESO or WoW:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dewslam

Being able to set up our own auto-combos would be kind of nice. It'd help cut down on sheer button volume and help streamline a few class rotations without turning entirely into macro style "press one button and the game plays its self for you" territory.

---

Most rotations are already fairly streamlined this would only make it even more repetitive.
Not to mention how Jobs would have to straight up be redesigned.

I mean you play MNK too, surely you must realize what a complete nightmare it'd be in PvE and how it'd screw up your rotation as soon as you drifted?
Your ability to adapt would be compromised.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

No... It'd compromise FFXIV's identity imo and make it too much like other MMO's.
The combat system is built around it the PvP combat already feels rly dumbed down as it is.

The reason why there are 1 button combos in PvP is because the combat just isn't suited for PvP inherently and they have to change things for it to make sense.
Same reason why positionals are not in PvP and in PvP you can't rly have a rotation like you do in PvE it's too inconsistent.

I rly don't understand either why some people are so obsessed with pushing as few buttons as possible.
Most Jobs in FFXIV are fairly busy but I wouldn't exactly call it overkill I feel like they're in a pretty perfect spot overall
If you want to spam the same few buttons over and over again there's games like ESO or WoW:



Most rotations are already fairly streamlined this would only make it even more repetitive.
Not to mention how Jobs would have to straight up be redesigned.

I mean you play MNK too, surely you must realize what a complete nightmare it'd be in PvE and how it'd screw up your rotation as soon as you drifted?
Your ability to adapt would be compromised.

---

It's an old thread, and pre ShB so the initial replies don't consider the effect dumbing down healer DPS skills had. I think the proof that one button combos are bad is right there. Ask any healer (like me) if it's a good idea for player engagement. It is not and the dev team is acutely aware of that now. As XIV is a story driven game many people are drawn to it, however gameplay factors in greatly to engagement as you've so noted. IMO anyone who is asking for this does not understand the game, and perhaps it is not in fact, for them.

First it is not one button for healers there is dots and other things. Second healer is not the same as physical dps. Physical can move around while healers have to heal and cast that is why casters just use one button like fire 4 or ruin 3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrhin

Necrooooooo, and NO. The beauty of XIV is that it's approachable yet still somewhat complex. Skill is rewarded but not prohibitively so. No "Press 'X' to win" please. Arcade and phone games are down the hall to the left.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Snip

---

Jolt turning into Scorch turning into Resolution, Impact turning into Scorch turning into Resolution, Veraero 1 and 3 turning into Verholy, Verthunder 1 and 3 turning into Verflare, Veraero 2 turning into Verholy and Verthunder 2 turning into Verflare.

Confiteor turning into Blade of Truth turning into Blade of Truth turning into Blade of Valor.

Gunbreaker Continuation.

Such skill much complex many buttons into one button.

Imagine how those 3 jobs's hotbars would be if those were all separate. If they were separate RDM definitely wouldn't have gotten Resolution, PLD wouldn't have gotten the Blade combo and GNB wouldn't have gotten Double Down.

RDM's Verholy, Verflare, Scorch and Resolution being merged to Veraero123, Verthunder 123, Jolt12 and Impact saves 4 hotkeys for more unique actions to use. Same with PLD's Blade combo all being on Confiteor which saves 3 slots for entirely different things. And GNB's Continuation saving 2 slots for entirely different things.

What I don't understand is why people defend the need for everything to be its own separate hotkey if they can be merged, jobs would get more oGCDs to use. RDM, for example, could have gotten an extra oGCD action to use if Riposte, Zwerchhau and Redoublement were merged into 1 button because that frees up 2 hotkey slots to add more abilities. There is also no reason for Riposte, Zwerchhau and Redoublement to be separate actions as there is no choice but to use them in that exact order.

Having everything be separate is also the reason we lose abilities every expansion to make room for new ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiliBoulanger

This might get contentious.

Why are auto combo buttons, like the ones in PvP, exclusive to PvP? Why can't they be brought over to PvE for sequential combos?

I don't think they simplify the gameplay to a significant degree. As far as I know there is no reason at any point why any job would ever want to restart a combo, or use a later part of the combo before the preceding moves. Even so, I think even if these were implemented into PvE, you should still have the option to map them individually if you so choose.

I don't think this would give players some sort of unfair advantage. It would merely reduce the amount of individual keybinds you need, and free up space on your action bar, a thing that was talked about when Stormblood launched, but I don't think was executed thoroughly. It seems strange to me that the devs would express that they wanted to do that, but didn't use their own ingenious solution they'd already implemented into PvP kits.

---

I like the idea but would also like the idea of being capable of doing it manually. Sure most jobs have no reason to go back in combo, but for GNB I keep going back to the brutal shell ( Combo 2 ) instead of going to Solid barrel ( Combo 3 ) because brutal shell would both heal me and give me a shield which is very useful in case I was soloing content, having a bad healer, or to help the healers in general.
Actually mentioning this now, it would be cool to have a reason to go back to a previous combo as it would give gameplay options. Either go back for a buff/heal/benefit or go forward for more damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drianathos

I've been asking this question since I started playing the game a couple months ago and had played some PVP.

It's in the game, so why restrict it to PVP?

In terms of it not working for some classes and working for others, just import the PVP combo buttons to PVE as is ?

---

They've actually spoken to this previously iirc.

Essentially, PvP is a much more dynamic game-mode where you need to make quick, unpredictable decisions. As such, juggling a proper rotation while doing that makes the barrier of entry higher than they'd like, so they chose to signifcantly simplify both job kits and the inputs required to be effective.

PVE is extremely scripted, and the decision making comes at completely fixed intervals. Having a more complicated rotation to execute around scripted mechanics makes the game more engaging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

What I don't understand is why people defend the need for everything to be its own separate hotkey if they can be merged, jobs would get more oGCDs to use. RDM, for example, could have gotten an extra oGCD action to use if Riposte, Zwerchhau and Redoublement were merged into 1 button because that frees up 2 hotkey slots to add more abilities. There is also no reason for Riposte, Zwerchhau and Redoublement to be separate actions as there is no choice but to use them in that exact order.

---

Because this is purely an assumption. One entirely at odds with every expansion we've had wherein jobs don't receive a bevy of new abilities even when previous skills were pruned away. This belief that a job like Dragoon will lose six buttons and be given back six more simply doesn't lineup whatsoever with how each expansion has handed out abilities. Furthermore, new oGCDs aren't necessarily a welcomed trade off. I would rather have Vorpal Thrust than Battle Litany. Why? I press the latter significantly less often. This, in turn, will make the rotation feel as though I'm pressing the same button repeatedly.

Now I'm open to some consolidation. Mirage Dive releasing Hi-Jump makes sense because you'll never press the two independent of each other. I'd even be open to combos... provided they replaced them with meaningful and interesting alternatives. Given they've decided to double down on the more simplified gameplay. I sincerely doubt that would happen. Therefore, I'll simply have less buttons to press. Which isn't fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Furthermore, new oGCDs aren't necessarily a welcomed trade off. I would rather have Vorpal Thrust than Battle Litany. Why? I press the latter significantly less often. This, in turn, will make the rotation feel as though I'm pressing the same button repeatedly.

---

New oGCDs would particularly be really bad on tanks. oGCD real-estate can already get pretty limited on certain situations, to the degree that you have to optimize certain weave-slots to make sure you're able to use certain live-saving cooldowns at the right time. (This can often mean exactly 19s/14s ahead of time, so that it falls off the moment after the tank-buster hits and is ready just in time for another buster down the line.)

In EW they've now added a CD that needs to be timed to the moment just before the attack for maximum efficacy, further constricting oGCD allocation choices.

Really, oGCD bloat is a significantly larger problem in my opinion than GCD bloat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

What I don't understand is why people defend the need for everything to be its own separate hotkey if they can be merged

---

Repetitively pressing a single button is actually bad for your health; Spreading the most repetitive part of your rotation across multiple inputs can actually help to reduce the potential for RSI. I largely stopped playing healer because of the pain that starts building in my wrist after about ten minutes of spamming malefic. I don't experience the same pain on any of the jobs with a 1-2-3 style combo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

New oGCDs would particularly be really bad on tanks. oGCD real-estate can already get pretty limited on certain situations, to the degree that you have to optimize certain weave-slots to make sure you're able to use certain live-saving cooldowns at the right time. (This can often mean exactly 19s/14s ahead of time, so that it falls off the moment after the tank-buster hits and is ready just in time for another buster down the line.)

In EW they've now added a CD that needs to be timed to the moment just before the attack for maximum efficacy, further constricting oGCD allocation choices.

Really, oGCD bloat is a significantly larger problem in my opinion than GCD bloat.



Repetitively pressing a single button is actually bad for your health; Spreading the most repetitive part of your rotation across multiple inputs can actually help to reduce the potential for RSI. I largely stopped playing healer because of the pain that starts building in my wrist after about ten minutes of spamming malefic. I don't experience the same pain on any of the jobs with a 1-2-3 style combo.

---

While for you, it may have helped, RSI is not really constrained to simply pressing one button repeatedly. Even complex movements or actions consisting of multipole movements such as the 1-2-3 combo system regularly lead to RSI. Hence how accountants, typists, dental hygienists are all considered high risk for RSI. I have numerous friends that have RSI from MMOs and even one that got it while plying this game and he finds the condensed combos of PvP more bearable. The best way to avoid RSI is posture, support and form of using what ever you are repeatedly doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

New oGCDs would particularly be really bad on tanks. oGCD real-estate can already get pretty limited on certain situations, to the degree that you have to optimize certain weave-slots to make sure you're able to use certain live-saving cooldowns at the right time. (This can often mean exactly 19s/14s ahead of time, so that it falls off the moment after the tank-buster hits and is ready just in time for another buster down the line.)

In EW they've now added a CD that needs to be timed to the moment just before the attack for maximum efficacy, further constricting oGCD allocation choices.

Really, oGCD bloat is a significantly larger problem in my opinion than GCD bloat.

---

I actually hadn't considered this, but it's a good point. In fact, it's one reason I actually miss Heavy Thrust and Impulse Drive. That extra GCD created additional weave space whereas now Dragoon has to pot pre-pull and will potentially be double weaving with Hi-Jump, which is not going to be ping friendly. It's also one of my concerns with Gunbreaker and Hypervelocity. The job already struggles fitting everything in properly while also positioning the boss. Burst Strike losing its flexibility will make that more irritating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drianathos

I've been asking this question since I started playing the game a couple months ago and had played some PVP.

It's in the game, so why restrict it to PVP?

In terms of it not working for some classes and working for others, just import the PVP combo buttons to PVE as is ?

---

Hi Titanmen