Auto Combo Buttons in PvE

[LiliBoulanger]

This might get contentious.

Why are auto combo buttons, like the ones in PvP, exclusive to PvP? Why can't they be brought over to PvE for sequential combos?

I don't think they simplify the gameplay to a significant degree. As far as I know there is no reason at any point why any job would ever want to restart a combo, or use a later part of the combo before the preceding moves. Even so, I think even if these were implemented into PvE, you should still have the option to map them individually if you so choose.

I don't think this would give players some sort of unfair advantage. It would merely reduce the amount of individual keybinds you need, and free up space on your action bar, a thing that was talked about when Stormblood launched, but I don't think was executed thoroughly. It seems strange to me that the devs would express that they wanted to do that, but didn't use their own ingenious solution they'd already implemented into PvP kits.

[LiliBoulanger]

I know how it would work for the Jobs I've played at any rate:

For Red Mage, it would just be nice to have Riposte, Zwerchhau, and Redoublement on one button, like it is for PvP. How Veraero/Verstone and Verthunder/Verfire work in PvP maybe wouldn't cross over to PvE, nor Verflare and Verholy.

I think this would be a godsend for Dragoon; one button for Impulse Drive-Disembowel-Chaos Thrust, and another for True Thrust-Vorpal Thrust-Full Thrust. That's a reduction of 66% for their base combos (I don't think Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw would work well with this but hey, if you felt you could reliably tell the tooltips apart, maybe that'd be fine, I have them separated on my hotbars cause I'm a scatterbrain and need the spatial distinction to know what position I need to be in). And then, another one for Doom Spike and Sonic Thrust. Now especially since the melee circle AoE has been removed, there's no real reason to choose one AoE over the other.

[LiliBoulanger]

For Paladin this would be a little less elegant, but still a reduction in hotbar entries. You could have three buttons, one for Fast Blade-Savage Blade-Rage of Halone, another for Fast Blade-Riot Blade-Goring Blade, and another for Fast Blade-Riot Blade-Royal Authority. That's still a 50% reduction in entries on your hotbars.

Other Jobs, feel free to share how you think it would work/not work for you. With the limited time I've played it, I feel maybe it wouldn't be quite as beneficial for Samurai. I don't know.

[Berethos]

Other Jobs, feel free to share how you think it would work/not work for you.

I don't think it would work out very well for Bard as we are currently designed.

We have more than a few procs and no real "do this, then this, then this" combo chain like many of the melee. You could put Windbite/Stormbite and Venomous Bite/Caustic Bite in an auto-combo since we generally put one then the other...but nothing else really fits. Putting the songs in a specific order wouldn't work as we have to change which one we start with based on single target or aoe situations.

I've only reached 50 with Black Mage and 61 with Summoner, but those don't really feel like they'd benefit from the system as much either.

That being said, to answer the question about why it's exclusive to PvP? Probably because the devs tend to err on the side of caution and it's a new system brought in with the expansion. Implementing it in PvP may very well be a testing ground for future changes (another thing they tend to do - bring in something piece by piece over time).

[LiliBoulanger]

I don't think it would work out very well for Bard as we are currently designed.

We have more than a few procs and no real "do this, then this, then this" combo chain like many of the melee. You could put Windbite/Stormbite and Venomous Bite/Caustic Bite in an auto-combo since we generally put one then the other...but nothing else really fits. Putting the songs in a specific order wouldn't work as we have to change which one we start with based on single target or aoe situations.

I've only reached 50 with Black Mage and 61 with Summoner, but those don't really feel like they'd benefit from the system as much either.

Even in this limited way for Bard it still at the very least frees up some hotbar space. Net gain!

Of course it wouldn't benefit all classes, unfortunately. I play WHM sorta as well and I can't think of a single way it would aid that Job. I'm also not a great WHM but that's neither here nor there.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't think it would work out very well for Bard as we are currently designed.

We have more than a few procs and no real "do this, then this, then this" combo chain like many of the melee. You could put Windbite/Stormbite and Venomous Bite/Caustic Bite in an auto-combo since we generally put one then the other...but nothing else really fits.

Nothing else needs to fit, though; it has incredibly few ST weaponskills compared to actual "combo" jobs.

At present, there is no reason in real content to ever hold Refulgent Arrow. That disappeared with Barrage itself granting RA. You could easily have HS replaced automatically by SS (later RA) and BS by RA whenever the latter is available.

There is no longer sufficient difference between VB and WB to make their order matter, nor does either button have any reason to exist once first applies, following the addition of Iron Jaws. You could easily just use a target-conditional combo there of WB->VB->IJ.

Though 98% of the time in any more serious content we will strictly follow the order of WM -> MB -> AP, there is no need to set them into a combo.

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The real question to me, though, is why we don't just let players set these combinations as they please.

Drop the "combo" trap (combo skills being usable instantly, but for virtually no effect / only as a trap), perhaps don't let skills like Iron Jaws be cast without an effect on the target, and only let the first applicable line queue if we really don't want too many actions in the stack, but there's no reason to have stuff like RDM's melee combo or MCH's, GNB's, or DRK's 123 cycle, etc., each on separate keys. They've zero points of decision within those combos.

[LiliBoulanger]

But really, I see no real drawback to implementing this into PvE. I really cannot see how it would drastically simplify how a Job is played. It would just make the physical execution of combos slightly easier. And I guess it would force players who don't know what combos are to use them, haha. But even then I still think it should be optional.

I know I would use it in a heartbeat. I can get flustered sometimes and I cut combos, or my finger slips and I use the wrong move, or whatever. I get frustrated 'cause my fingers move faster or slower than my brain does. But it doesn't have to be like this! We don't all have expensive computer mice with a bunch of buttons, and I think this change would especially be welcome for controller users.

[Big_Panda]

I was initially skeptical when they announced it for PvP, then I tried PvP and it just made sense.

We can still weave oGCD between the combo moves and I didn't see a reason I would interrupt the combo.

For more experienced players, I imagine they want more control on their actions, so I would suggest making the auto-combo optional.

[LiliBoulanger]

Yes, it should absolutely be optional. And I had no idea how it worked until I tried PvP but was instantly captivated by the possibility of using it in PvE.

I'm a reasonably experienced player... but I have clumsy hands, and freaking ADHD, and I can get distracted in the middle of combos. But just having my hands physically in the same position for a combo I'm already going to do in the same way every time just makes sense. What is the big difference between pressing 2, 3, and 4 on my keyboard, and pressing 2 three times?

[LiliBoulanger]

That being said, to answer the question about why it's exclusive to PvP? Probably because the devs tend to err on the side of caution and it's a new system brought in with the expansion. Implementing it in PvP may very well be a testing ground for future changes (another thing they tend to do - bring in something piece by piece over time).

That's encouraging! And partly why I wanted to post on the forums; me ranting about it at my static doesn't help anybody.