SE, it is time to speak up

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

The special site created solely for what patch 4.1 will be bringing to the game? Okay, that's not a trailer, but a promotional page. Yes, housing is on it, as yes, 4.1 did bring open the sale of housing in Shirogane. It is not the only thing listed for 4.1's content, as well as beast tribes and squadrons (which, by your own statement, I can equally say is as much as a 24 man raid).

Lol, I'm not saying don't be upset. Be upset! Just be reasonable.

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https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/storm...=eu_stormblood
It's listed on the official page for Stormblood same as the 24 man so it's just as much a bit of content as the 24 man

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I'm also a person that appeals to logic, not emotion, gently reminding people that housing is vanity or even a trophy, but is by no means a gate.

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Sadly, we're humans, not robots.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I'm honestly trying to recall what trailer showcased housing for Stormblood. The official Stormblood trailer shows only cinematic.

I'm also a person that appeals to logic, not emotion, gently reminding people that housing is vanity or even a trophy, but is by no means a gate.

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They highlight it in the 4.1 trailer launch. Nevertheless, if it's a feature value, it's well within their right to criticise the game and/or patch. It's no different than people who hated Gordias, and thus, criticised Heavensward initially.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

this suggestion is not a better solution. the problem is the supply is too low for the demand.

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One, I never said it was a better solution to the problem at hand. In fact and I quote what I said, "It still not a fix to the housing."
Which leads to two, I know it a supply being to low for the demand. But do you see SE doing anything about it? We've been four years into this without a real fix. Add more wards? (which is what they did back before HW) Not a fix. Not to servers like Balmung it isn't and even now the lower pop servers.

What I will agree with is that yea, zones may just crash out.
These wonderful server upgrades that SE did really prove just how much them upgrades really did.

Did moderator move this thread from housing to general discussion? Didn't realize housing related threads now get moved to general discussion.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/storm...=eu_stormblood
It's listed on the official page for Stormblood same as the 24 man so it's just as much a bit of content as the 24 man

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Yes, I'm aware. It's a content list (not trailer). As I pointed out on the page before, it also lists Eureka, which we just got, as well as had Ivalice listed before 4.1 launched.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They highlight it in the 4.1 trailer launch. Nevertheless, if it's a feature value, it's well within their right to criticise the game and/or patch. It's no different than people who hated Gordias, and thus, criticised Heavensward initially.

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Ah, so it was. Along with Perform. However, see below. Personally, I'd have loved more Hildebrand over housing.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Sadly, we're humans, not robots.

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And prone to being irrational and unreasonable. Like I said, I'm not telling people to not be upset, just be reasonable.

We knew housing was going to be unreasonably limited for the amount of excitement generated when Shirogane was first announced. Why it took the player base this long to be up in arms is a little bit beyond me. It should have had this much commotion surrounding it prior to Shirogane's doors being open when it wasn't said that there would be increases to wards. Like I said, be upset, but be reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Kyoraki

Adding and maintaining more wards is expensive, and the reason this patch has been otherwise light on content. SE can't simply 'add more'. There *is* instanced housing in the form of apartments, but everyone seems to snub their noses at it for not being as good as the persistent offering. As for "Get rid of it", you're simply being spiteful to those who managed to get a plot. "If I can't have [thing], then nobody else can have [thing]!" is what you're saying.

Also, did this really have to be it's own thread?

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no I don't want apts because.... NOT ENOUGH ROOMS MY STUFFS FOR THIS! 257 ITEMS!! NOT ENOUGH ROOM END STORY! Tooo small room! I hate this apt! so I want House!


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ill-more-Wards I did made this one month ago I knew it this is happened

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tanced-housing Please sign up!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...se-Wards-House they moved to dead server left behind me sigh!.... how stressful and upset! but I don't want to move, Levi server is better

anyone knows how long days Auto-Demolishing without build house? I can see the empty plot without build house >_>

For those that says adding more wards is expensive, you don't know what you talk about, they enhanced the graphics and now the worse place that's sounds a ps4 pro is in the wards and the difference before SB, is minimum at the eye, they just stop optimizate the resources, now add wards it is the same easy as the probe with the appartements, why is this? Easy auto-generated apartments was automatically generated when people buy until the 30 spots where full and the mantainance are easy. For other part instances aren't a good option since there is a instance server and instance local this you can test by been in a party and enter to the rising stonework walking sands, so for fc is bad option.

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Originally Posted by Kyoraki

There *is* instanced housing in the form of apartments, but everyone seems to snub their noses at it for not being as good as the persistent offering.

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And that's exactly the problem. It isn't as good as the persistent offering.

With the persistent housing wards being expensive, and SE being unable or unwilling to maintain enough of them for the entire playerbase, they should want people to favor the cheaper to maintain instanced version. They should have made it better than a house in the persistent wards, not this pathetically limited excuse for housing that we got from it.


p.s. I have a house. But that doesn't stop me from feeling bad for those who don't, or frustrated by clearly bad design of a major game feature.

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Originally Posted by ArchangelSavior

no I don't want apts because.... NOT ENOUGH ROOMS MY STUFFS FOR THIS! 257 ITEMS!! NOT ENOUGH ROOM END STORY! Tooo small room! I hate this apt! so I want House!


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ill-more-Wards I did made this one month ago I knew it this is happened

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tanced-housing Please sign up!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...se-Wards-House they moved to dead server left behind me sigh!.... how stressful and upset! but I don't want to move, Levi server is better

anyone knows how long days Auto-Demolishing without build house? I can see the empty plot without build house >_>

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100 items for apartments, 200 for small houses, 300 for mediums and 400 for a large.

All of your links are broken.

House demolition is suspended, but I think they have 45 days to build a house before it becomes reclaimed. Hopefully, that is separate from inactive housing reclamation.

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Originally Posted by Arckrin

For those that says adding more wards is expensive, you don't know what you talk about, they enhanced the graphics and now the worse place that's sounds a ps4 pro is in the wards and the difference before SB, is minimum at the eye, they just stop optimizate the resources, now add wards it is the same easy as the probe with the appartements, why is this? Easy auto-generated apartments was automatically generated when people buy until the 30 spots where full and the mantainance are easy. For other part instances aren't a good option since there is a instance server and instance local this you can test by been in a party and enter to the rising stonework walking sands, so for fc is bad option.

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PLEASE STOP! BECAUSE I AM PS4 PRO! PLEASE STOP BLAME AT US SO S---! I WANT HOUSE HOUSE HOUSE AND HOUSE! I WAS WAITED QUE AT 1,000 UGH NOT JUST ONLY YOU NO..... ALL COMPUTER ALL PS4 SAME DON'T GET HOUSE! WE WANT MORE WARDS ALL FREE NOT LIMIT WARDS! NO!

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

100 items for apartments, 200 for small houses, 300 for mediums and 400 for a large.

All of your links are broken.

House demolition is suspended, but I think they have 45 days to build a house before it becomes reclaimed. Hopefully, that is separate from inactive housing reclamation.

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so what!? don't tell me about Limit items because I knows!

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Originally Posted by Arckrin

For those that says adding more wards is expensive, you don't know what you talk about, they enhanced the graphics and now the worse place that's sounds a ps4 pro is in the wards

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Graphics are on your machine, not SE's servers. When people talk about the expense of adding more wards, they're talking about SE's expense of the servers to maintain all those wards 24/7.

With instanced housing (like apartments) it's not maintained all the time. The server creates an instance of your apartment whenever you enter it, then removes that instance whenever you leave, freeing the server space to be used for something else all the rest of the time. It's a much more efficient pattern.

Add 12 more wards... one at a time... at random intervals over a 6mos period... DO NOT ADVERTISE IT WHEN YOU ADD A NEW WARD... no rush for housing no server lag better chance to get a house... not perfect but better than they way they add housing now... didn't log in to check if housing was available? Then it's on you

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Originally Posted by ArchangelSavior

so what!? don't tell me about Limit items because I knows!

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I was.... making a correction because you said apartments have 300 items, saying it's not enough room and listing that the only house with more than 300 items is a mansion. Naturally, I question if you actually knew or if it was a legitimate typo. Also, your links are still broken.

I understood house scarcity being an issue in Ultima Online, a game that launched back in 1997. Houses were just in the actual world. There weren't any wards. If there was space and trees weren't blocking you, you could place a house. The land filled up eventually, and you had to wait for an expansion to add more land mass in order to get more housing.

FFXIV has separate copy/paste zones for housing. The fact that they've designed this game's housing so poorly to have all of the problems Ultima Online had but without the hard restriction of having housing in the open world is mind-boggling. There's lots of ways they could have fixed / addressed this before 4.1. But they didn't.

There absolutely is content locked behind housing. Which is complete and utter bull. FC workshops, airships, gardening are some to name a few.

Im ok with housing being somewhat limited and having to move quickly but this is not ok
When housing was first released and even when extra plots were added it was NEVER this bad. You atleast had a day or two to try and get a plot. Some servers had a little longer. So yea everyone was expecting competition for plots, especially the large ones. But I dont think anyone expected it to be this bad. I got in at 6:01 and all the large plots and half the medium ones were sold out. Some people that were able to get in ended up with an error that prevented them from buying any housing despite meeting all requirements. And that's just the beginning of it.

So yea people are upset that they didn't get a house, but from what Ive seen, majority is upset that they didnt get a fair chance at it.

I think housing is important to different people. I raid, but I understand that a lot of people don't and, to them, all that raid content is utterly useless. Maybe they don't have time or they aren't interested. So, to a lot of people, housing is kind of an endgame. I think it's fair for them to be upset about that. It would be like if only the first 1000 raid teams actually got to raid then it kicked everyone else out till the next raid tier. Then people started selling their raid slots once they were done with them for millions of gil.

Pretty sure people would be livid.

Raid is also optional, it doesn't need to be done (As is the argument whenever people complain that raiding is too hard).

Here's an idea to fix some of the problem. Move to fc's which have houses already. Surely a lot of fcs could combine into a larger fc? I know there are personality conflicts but these can be worked out or even bypassed by finding compatible fcs to merge with. I'd be more than happy to open my fc to people without houses. My house is small but I'm always looking to upgrade it. I have a friend who has a large house who is always looking for new members. Sometime you simply have to compromise.

Every house, be it FC or personal, should have been instanced content from day 1. The design they have set up right now is literal garbage for a game with the amount of suscribers they have. To keep the "neighbourhood" feeling they could have added different areas from which to access each set of instanced houses, shared between them all, with the marketing NPCs, the marketboard, aetherytes, etc outside to keep people in the same neighbourhood interacting. If you could set it so access to your plot of land was public or private people could still see your house decoration, etc.

It does boggle the mind that they designed such a terrible housing system, and even more so that people keep defending them. Apartments could still be a thing to buy cheaply, but different house sizes, garden size, sea/mountain views and other options should just increase the base cost of the house. It's not rocket science...

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

It does boggle the mind that they designed such a terrible housing system, and even more so that people keep defending them.

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I have yet to see someone defending the housing system and more understanding the reasons for why we have the system that we do, versus those that, may be crudely summarized, to I want more housing and believing there are no legitimate reasons for why we have what we have.

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Originally Posted by Kyoraki

Adding and maintaining more wards is expensive, and the reason this patch has been otherwise light on content. SE can't simply 'add more'. There *is* instanced housing in the form of apartments, but everyone seems to snub their noses at it for not being as good as the persistent offering.

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What can you put in apartments? I'm curious as if I can decorate or even grow plants in a pot, I'd be happy.

This, yes this, forever this!♡♡♡♡ maybe an instanced courtyard or something with 1-2 flowerbeds, at least its something

As much as i love the company , the situation is just unfair and i wish they take the time to fix this issue. Apartment was a nice move in the right direction but i feel this would also have worked perfectly for housing i rarely see any neighbors and it wouldn't change anything if they instanced it. Needless to say the timer is stupid as hell to hostage your sub. Provide a house per account or expend on apartment so people can do something similar as housing.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

What can you put in apartments? I'm curious as if I can decorate or even grow plants in a pot, I'd be happy.

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You can do both. However you can't do cross breeding like you can with a garden. You can decorate but have a lower amount of items you can place (100 for apartment and 200 for small house). You also can't add more people to your apartment like you can with a house. People can visit you but you can't add them as a tenant. Also there's no workshop in an apartment. Though the workshop only makes housing items and fc airships neither of which are actually something one MUST have as without a house there is no use for the housing items and you can get to Diadem other ways than fc airship.

Apartments vs housing is night and day difference. I regret buying an apartment and vacated it rather quick because housing has so much more features. They are NO SOLUTION to this problem.

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Originally Posted by Stillwaters

I have yet to see someone defending the housing system and more understanding the reasons for why we have the system that we do, versus those that, may be crudely summarized, to I want more housing and believing there are no legitimate reasons for why we have what we have.

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The thing is... I can't think of an actual legitimate reason for why we have what we have, at least none that isn't "we fucked up."

Completely instanced housing would have been way easier to do in terms of server loads, area concept, design and building, and development time. Even if they wanted to make it limited, it would have been waaay easier to increase the amount of available houses as the population grew, and the incremental measures could have been added on a world by world basis.

Sadly, the only hope to fix the housing mess without entirely overhauling it is to improve apartments so that they allow access to the FC features locked behind housing, ie. Workshops and Gardening.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

You can do both. However you can't do cross breeding like you can with a garden. You can decorate but have a lower amount of items you can place (100 for apartment and 200 for small house). You also can't add more people to your apartment like you can with a house.

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Plus the limitation that decorating can use indoor items only. There's no place to put (or even store) something like a tree that you'd gotten in an earlier seasonal event.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Also there's no workshop in an apartment.

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Well, there's no workshop in a personal house either. This limitation really comes down to the fact that apartments are limited to being personal only. There's no such thing as an FC apartment.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Plus the limitation that decorating can use indoor items only. There's no place to put (or even store) something like a tree that you'd gotten in an earlier seasonal event.



Well, there's no workshop in a personal house either. This limitation really comes down to the fact that apartments are limited to being personal only. There's no such thing as an FC apartment.

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Thank you for the corrections. I don't own a personal house so didn't realize they don't have workshops and I figured only indoor items was apparent.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

snip

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or players could not be selfish and we work together.

players fault they wanted personal fc homes tbh. :/ no matter what player homes would be limited, game has too many players across too few servers

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

I figured only indoor items was apparent.

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Mostly, but I know some players were hoping that the new housing storage feature would allow them to store outdoor stuff in their apartment's storeroom until they're able to get a house to display it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-in-Patch-4.1

Ask and you shall receive.

They did the thing!

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-in-Patch-4.1

Ask and you shall receive.

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Actions speak louder than words. Take this post Yoshi made with a grain of salt. Wait until something is actually done before resubbing/getting happy.

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Originally Posted by Nuna

Actions speak louder than words. Take this post Yoshi made with a grain of salt. Wait until something is actually done before resubbing/getting happy.

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He could have not responded at all, you know.

I was lucky to get a medium house in the Goblet back when the subwards were added. And when I heard Shirogane would be a thing. I was eager to move somewhere more appealing, the area I live in the goblet is a ghost town.

Then I got screwed out of it because my launcher screwed up so hard I had to reinstall the game flat out. And while I do have a house. I am very much on the side of the people who don't. The system for housing is so poorly designed I dont understand why Square leaves it like this. Its a long running problem, they have to know about it by now.

I'd concede partially if it was simply a matter of "I was too slow to get a house/move" but instead it was "I couldn't get a house/move because the patching and launcher screwed up as it usually does"

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Originally Posted by KyokuhoKensaki

Its a long running problem, they have to know about it by now.

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The strangest part is how they seem surprised by it every time it comes up.

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Originally Posted by KyokuhoKensaki

I'd concede partially if it was simply a matter of "I was too slow to get a house/move" but instead it was "I couldn't get a house/move because the patching and launcher screwed up as it usually does"

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Technical issues undoubtedly added to the frustration, but ultimately there would have been just as many players left without even if everything had been working smoothly. It would just have been different players. So long as there are fewer houses than there are people who want them, the real issue remains essentially unchanged.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-in-Patch-4.1

Ask and you shall receive.

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This is about best you can hope for with this game. I actually did laugh out loud about "How they should be added" Were they deaf/blind when Balmung/Gilgamesh had this problem last time. Nothing like ignoring it till you get stomped. As some game sites have actually commented about how bad this housing launch/system is.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

This is about best you can hope for with this game. I actually did laugh out loud about "How they should be added" Were they deaf/blind when Balmung/Gilgamesh had this problem last time. Nothing like ignoring it till you get stomped. As some game sites have actually commented about how bad this housing launch/system is.

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To be entirely fair EVERYONE who wasn't on those two servers ignored and derided the problem back then. I very clearly remember people coming to the forums to complain and essentially being laughed at because it wasn't an issue anywhere else at the time due to the lack of push to fill non-congested worlds. I think it was foolish of the developers not to notice the ticking time bomb this problem was going to be, but when most of your population is saying it isn't a problem I can't really say I don't understand why they kicked it until another day.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

He could have not responded at all, you know.

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Seeing your in this case, a little bit, ironic signature... maybe him saying nothing could have been better? Also his response was pretty much not saying much, just telling people people they've noticed the complaining (they'd have to be blind and deaf not to). They don't really seem to have a real solution in the works at all, and I'd say they're most likely just going to wait until this blows over.