People will be exceptionally disappointed at how many houses this doesn't free up.
I'm not against the one and one idea, per se; but it's not a cure-all, just a bandaid.
Restrict Personal Houses to 1 Per Server!
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10-16-2017, 08:51 AMSindele
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10-16-2017, 09:46 AMVahlnirA bandaid fix like this would still be better than nothing at all. An actual fix would definitely be preferable though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindele
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10-16-2017, 03:59 PMAlmagnus1I wouldn't call this a bandaid, but part of the larger set of changes that need to go live to actually solve the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindele
That said, this is the one part of a more comprehensive solution that almost everyone can agree upon, which is why I believe this restriction to be worth pushing first. Getting this in place would set the precedent for other more forceful changes that would need to happen, as housing isn't something that SE needs to approach as gently as possible because a lot of people (especially for the couple that own a ward) probably have a lot of emotional investment tied up in their houses. -
10-16-2017, 09:45 PMWolftamerWhy? Take the 2 people on Mateus that bought the 28 homes that made news. They purchased them when Mateus was a ghost town and there were literally whole wards completely empty with all their land available. When they bought those houses they were hurting NOBODY. They did nothing wrong buying those houses and they do not deserve to be punished for doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
No, stripping houses from people that already have them is not the right answer by any means and only serves to punish people so salty people without a house can have some satisfaction in watching people lose one. -
10-17-2017, 01:16 AMVahlnirExcept no one should have that many. It's selfish. Just because they COULD doesn't make it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolftamer
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10-17-2017, 01:26 AMAlmagnus1And yet, if they did strip houses from them, you're screwing over 2 people to make like 24-26 other players and FCs happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolftamer
The utilitarian argument here ACTUALLY favors stripping houses from the hoarders. Personally, I'm up for giving them a grace period where they can (of their own accord) yield their houses prior to a deadline.
They had their fun, but it's time for that to end. -
10-17-2017, 01:36 AMworldofneilWhy not? Just because you think so doesn't make it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
The game allowed them to purchase the plots as long as they met the requirements for personal/FC housing. They played within the rules that SE had set out. -
10-17-2017, 04:24 AMSendohJinthis is demonstrably false. i guarantee that once opened up, those plots will be purchased.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolftamer
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10-17-2017, 08:56 AMWolftamerAgain, how was it selfish? When they purchased them Mateus was one of those servers that was so empty that literally every day there was 100+ plots unsold sitting around. There would be entire wards without a house purchased. They bought up 28 houses and there was still over 100 homes out there sitting unpurchased. What was WRONG in purchasing them? They were purchased when there was no demand for housing. They literally were just buying up unwanted plots sitting around doing nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
That is not selfish, it is not wrong, and it certainly is not something that they deserve punishment for. -
10-17-2017, 09:00 AMWolftamerAnd again, when they bought their houses there was nobody else to make happy. They didn't screw anyone out of any houses. Those wards didn't fill up until months later when the Kotaku article hit and people realized there were servers with empty wards, and then SE offering incentives to go to lower servers. Those 2 people didn't do a damn thing that warrants SE coming in and stripping them of their houses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
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10-17-2017, 09:09 AMSiniztorNo stop right there you do not speak for me or know what i agree with and in this case you are wrong i don't not agree with this. I payed $18 over a year ago to move to a low pop server to own housing for over a year 200-400 plot sat empty..yes i own 3 houses and have for a year. i play my 3 alts every week they all have differant taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Every person who is crying they want a house could of had a house easy prior to free transfer by paying to move to a low pop server but they chose friends or server over housing i paid and picked housing. The whole ward thing on mathus guess what no one cared till free transfer there was still plenty of free lots there.. My server had 218 open plots at rock bottom prices the day of free transfers.
I pay extra for 8 chars. my 8 chars should have all the rights the person paying for 1 char. If they wanna change the rules now fine so be it. but you cant take away the houses people worked hard for who broke no rules that is not fair just because people took a free ride and didnt get a house...The problem isnt the small handfull that own more then one house most of us on low pop servers Its thers only 2880 houses on all worlds where the population is 6k+ not counting free companys..
Do you 100% honestly think its right to take way from people who broke no rules just to give to people in my case who took a free ride to my server?? Everyone who wanted a house on my server has one hell smalls were 1.5 mil lol med 8 mil.
Bewared if they start taking rights away from what you pay extra for it wont stop here...Next will be retainers John doe is crashing the market so lets make it so only the 2 retainers thru storys can sell items
Bottom line they need more wards and a ton of them other games do it and they sure have the money, figure out there monthly income from how many subs they say they have and lets just use the base subcription price..thats a ton of money a month -
10-17-2017, 09:20 AMPentheaIdeally no one should have to pay real money to get access to a house other than paying their sub to play the game. Furthermore most players come to the game not knowing about the specifics about housing, and by the time they know enough they have already invested loads of time in their character and their social circle. The fact that housing is often so cut-throat that players have to choose between their friends and a house just speaks volumes as to how incredibly flawed the system is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
I could understand your argument if you had a personal house and a fc house on one character, I myself am in this position. But you also possess houses on alts. This game is literally designed for you to be able to do everything on one character, and does literally nothing to encourage playing alts. You can't even mail your alts. You can even choose a sub payment for only one character per server. Yes you paid for the houses but you having them on alts is you taking advantage of an oversight, not an intended feature of the housing system.
You can argue about it until your face is blue, but the fact remains that everyone knows SE have designed the game so that you can do everything on one character, so logically all your housing should be on one character too. -
10-17-2017, 09:31 AMSiniztorif there was only 1 sub plan that be fine but there is 2 and now your saying sub plan B dose not have the same rights as sub plan A. Sub plan A has 1 char you make it you have all the rights, Sub plan B you can make 8 chars but only 1 can own a house the rest have to be tied to it. My alts maybe dont want nothing to do with my main or my circle of friends from my main maybe its a ghost who only plays with certain people... It comes down to we pay extra money for more chars who all should have the same rights as the person who pays for 1..Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
Like i said housing up to free transfer. Housing came down to making a chose. if you wanted it pay and move to a low pop server or stay with your friends..i know many people who payed to get in balmug then took free transfers to mathus just to scream n cry no houses lol when they left a server the first time that had houses -
10-17-2017, 09:39 AMPentheaActually no because if I had any say in it I would make it so all characters on the same server would have access to the personal house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
I can certainly understand the desire for housing on multiple or even all characters. It's a damn shame we can't even add our alts to our friends list, because I would have done it already so my sweet lala can also enjoy the benefits of a house. -
10-17-2017, 11:07 AMRayneLittlewinkle
I do agree to having it as one character per server. I have a alt on Gilgamesh and a alt on mateus. They both own just one house. I think ONE house per server is reasonable. And if we have alts all on one server. In my case my main is on Balmung along with two alts. While I'd never try to get a home for my alts k. Balmung having them as a tenant would be nice. Heck I don't even have apartments on them. Cause I'm wanting other people to get one. ( Even though Balmung have apartments open all the time)
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10-17-2017, 11:12 AMAlmagnus1You know what, I have that same sub too, and I STRONGLY disagree with your selfish stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
IMO, all accounts should have exactly one personal house per server. Any more is an abuse of the system.
No, SE should take action to correct their mistake, and if you get screwed in the process, so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
You're part of the problem here, NOT the solution. -
10-17-2017, 04:41 PMSiniztorIt is not abuse of the system lol that so funny.. i didn't bend any rules use any loop holes to get my houses..In fact i followed the rules i leveled my alts up to 50 beat the story (not required but i did) leveled my grand company and bought them deco each house to max items.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
now my server as i sat with my houses had any where from 200-400 at the peek empty plots after i had mine for over a year.. no one was hurting for houses till the "free riders" came in with there free transfers..in less then 48 hours 218 (yes i counted them in all 3 wards the night before) houses sold due to free transfers and we got q's to login yea us.. im not part of any problem i followed the rules heck i even paid real life cash to move to a place to have houses SE took my money for sure..I didnt take a free ride in hopes of gettin a house.
The only ones that are the problem are the people who think for some reason its fair to punish those who did nothing wrong and take from.. i pay my sub just like you not my fault your on a higher pop server and didnt move pre free rides for a house cause we had plenty of houses for you :)
Now if they do indeed change it to one house per account so be it, but rightfully you cant punish people who did nothing wrong we followed the rules set in front of us. If in any way we broke a rule i could see it but i didn't break any rules to get my houses
I took away from no one there was plenty of houses open untill SE got enough money form all those transfers into balmug and had to close it lol you want talk about greed talk about SE closing char creation yet allowing thousands of people to transfer in via paying to the point they had to come up with this free transfer junk -
10-17-2017, 05:24 PMAlmagnus1Yeah, you know how many times I've heard that "You don't pay my sub" from healers that don't DPS? Doesn't fly for an excuse there, won't fly here. Especially when we both have the same sub type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
As much as you want to try and talk your way out of it, you are exploiting a SE screw up in the housing system that never should have allowed a single account to have more than one personal house on any given server.
When the rules are fundamentally broken, the rules need to change. Players need a grace period to adapt to them, but everyone should be forced onto the new system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
That includes having all excess personal houses stripped from the player if they do not willingly release them before SE forces the issue. -
10-17-2017, 05:35 PMSiniztorIm sorry but that is your opinion..The FACT is as it stands right now the rules state as long as you meet the requirments you can buy a house with alts. The FACTS are i followed rules set in front of me i did nothing wrong i did not explot in any way shape or form.. you may think SEs rule is broken and that is fine but just cause YOU THINK that dose not equal me or anyone else breaking the tos and exploting in any way..Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
As ive said many times before im fine if they wanna change the rules now to one per account. but you cant punish those who didntt break your rules we followed your rules and did nothing wrong. takeing away from people who broke no rules id wrong -
10-17-2017, 05:45 PMGnorokOr SE could just use a bit of the money they earn with FF14 to provide sufficient wards without screwing anyone. Problem solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
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10-17-2017, 06:24 PMAlmagnus1Except anyone with half a brain knows that more wards by themselves isn't going to solve the issue - as all more wards is going to do is give land barons more properties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnorok
The problem is a shortage of housing aggravated by account housing capacity being too high per server. -
10-17-2017, 06:28 PMAlmagnus1SE should change the rules on housing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
However, if they change the rules to disallow acquiring more personal properties if you already have one personal property, SE needs to make that change retroactive or it solves nothing.
IMO SE needs to deal with the land barons and house flipping market by any means necessary. Anything less will never resolve the housing issues, and only cause more contention in the player base. There is very much a case where it's better to lose a few fingers than the whole hand. -
10-17-2017, 07:31 PMSprinkle
Land Baron's how about giving them the title of " SLUM LORDS" !
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10-17-2017, 08:25 PMSearbanBringig your sub up isn't an angle that is going to work well for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
You're paying 15$ a month and keep ownership of 3 plots. 2 players that could otherwise use 2 out of those 3 plots are paying 13$ each, so a combined of 26$. Even if you were to quit the game over this issue, another paying would take your last plot over, bringing that total to 39$. Business-wise in a subscrition based MMO needs of many will always outweight needs of the few.
Your claim that each of your characters should have the same rights as a character people pay 13$ a month for because you pay 15$ for them all (13 for 1 and 2 for all others combined) isn't much better.
TL: DR Don't bring money into this discussion because you're hurting your own case.
And the bit about retainers is a poorly constructed strawman as well as an attempt at fearmongering. You should feel bad. -
10-17-2017, 08:57 PMworldofneil
Clearly there's a lot of personal opinions here, but whether people like it or not (quite clearly not in some cases), SE sells a subscription plan that allows players to have up to 8 characters. Yes you only need 1 character, but it is a fact that they sell an 8-character package and each of those characters has the same rights/abilities. If someone wants to spend their time and effort to level those characters to get a house, they can. If SE didn't want players to use other characters to buy houses they could have put that in. Should they have? Maybe, they didn't.
Also SE have made multiple major changes to the housing and at no point have they tried to place restrictions on how many characters can own property:
Initial FC housing: 2.1
Personal housing: 2.38
Subdivisions: 2.4
Wards 9-12 (and subdivisions): 3.3
Shirogane: 4.1
Despite people saying that players are using the system in ways that weren't intended, given the amount of housing updates where SE *hasn't* changed things, clearly it *IS* working as they intended.
If you look at any of the XIV subscription information SE has published, there are no distinctions at all between the first character and the additional seven. They all have the same rights/privileges. Because no restrictions are made, it's not unreasonable for someone to want to use their subscription to get maximum value out of it and clearly SE recognises this.
If they want to change it to only one house per service account I have no problem with that, but they need to grandfather in any existing houses. I don't personally think it'll make much difference though as I don't believe there's not many people with multiple houses, but we can only speculate, only SE knows those figures.
But even if they were to restrict personal houses to 1 per service account/per server, it would just drive people who want multiple houses to making single character FCs instead which are not so easy to restrict. As everyone likely knows, FC houses are "owned" by whoever is currently the leader of the free company and this can change. Either because someone willingly needed to promote someone (taking a break, putting someone else in charge?) or it happens involuntarily where the leader is offline for 35-days and it jumps to the next active person on the hierarchy. To restrict this would require changing parts of how FCs actually work right now.
And if you start requiring a minimum membership amount for FCs, you penalise actual very small FCs (2-3 friends) and the "fake" FCs people would just get their friends to create an alt, stick it in their FC and forget about it.
The only real solution here seems to be that we need considerably more wards so that there is more supply than demand. -
10-18-2017, 01:24 AMSerret
There needs to be an account restriction on the acquisitions of houses going forward. This much is obvious.
While I do agree that people who own multiple houses in their accounts were in their full right, in doing so they are preventing other players from accessing this feature as the game is designed right now. This is unfair.
That being said, I don't think S-E should remove houses from people who already multiple of them in their accounts. At least not without some kind of compensation.
What they can do however is implement whatever restrictions they wish, so long as it doesn't have retroactive effects. I think this would please both sides of the ordeal.
Personally, I don't see why an account should own multiple houses. But I'm not the one dictating the rules.
Even those who are holding houses for friends\family who don't subscribe as often are preventing actual active subscribers from actively owning a house.
And even for RP purposes it's excessive. -
10-18-2017, 01:29 AMAlmagnus1Yet that change would reduce maximum capacity from 16 houses per account per server down to 9 houses per account per server. That capacity adjustment is what I'm after.Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
That's part of the solution, but without adjusting the capacity side of things, then all SE is going to do is give houses to the land barons.Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
The point of this thread is to effect changes that will help prevent another Shirogane, where people are like "YAY! NEW NEIGHBORHOOD!", and then find out the entire thing is gone within half an hour, and any new houses that entered the market are gone in about as much time. -
10-18-2017, 01:35 AMAbelfei
100% agree, and have stated feelings like this in the 4.2 thread. Thank you so much!
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10-18-2017, 01:38 AMAbelfeiPrevent another Shirogane? What was bad about it? Youre only mad cause you didnt get one. The process is fine, the fact is FFXIV is popular, and so is housing. Earn it, get lucky, but dont complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
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10-18-2017, 01:48 AMAlmagnus1Please visit https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVhousingmarket/ and count the number of Shirogane land plots up for sale, which is now up to 7 on the front page at the time of writing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abelfei
That's seven players (and/or FCs) that didn't get a house because the house flippers decided their profit was more important than someone getting a property in the new neighborhood.
There is nothing right about that. -
10-18-2017, 02:51 AMSiniztorQuote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
I hate house flippers just as much as the people who buy from them..but really your argument that shirogane went bad seems petty like he said you didnt get a house you mad, you argue there is 7 houses for sale hmm lets try math 720 houses in Shirogane 66 servers (counted off the wikki)... 720 x 66 = 47,520 houses were released..out of that 7 are forsale. 7 out of 47,520
Dosent seem the problem is mass buying or mass selling its shortage of houses period..you keep bringing up people owning 16 houses. ive only heard of the mathus people im sure there might be 1 or two more who own whole wards. but multi house owners seem to own 2-3 houses so taken them is only gonna free up maybe 100 if you lucky on a server thats not a fix or help lol we need 50-100 more wards if they wanna keep housing in wards or instance them
Dont miss the bold type i think anyone who sells a house for profit or buys a house from a flipper should be banned permently..im just saying the problem with shir realse wasnt fippers it was the lack of the new houseing ward period -
10-18-2017, 03:04 AMjoshdavis271
As long as I can share the house with my alts this would work perfectly, I could sit in one spot all day and craft and transfer things between my main and alts real easily instead of moving form city to city.
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10-18-2017, 03:37 AMGravton
You want the devs to seize property from the wealthy by any means, to then resell it to others? I agree that we should only have one per account, I disagree with your redistribution of wealth premise.
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10-18-2017, 03:54 AMSaphirauge_Solasfola
I agree, but people who already own multiple homes should be compensated in some major way. Give them some unique items and a 100% refund or something. I doubt someone with 4 homes would be too remiss as long as they got a full refund for their investment and some additional compensation. What can you do with 4 houses that you couldn't do with 1 or 2?
With that said, personal housing should also be accessible account-wide... maybe even on all servers. That much reduces the incentive of over purchasing. -
10-18-2017, 10:42 AMAlmagnus1And the GMs have been shown to be ineffective at resolving the issue, so all that's left is changing the rules and mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
If you've got a better solution (that doesn't involved the ineffective GMs) I'm all ears.
It's both, anyone saying it's one or the other doesn't understand the true complexity of this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siniztor
I would hope that we'd get some sort of chest (like 25 slot) for housing storage so a player can shuffle items from the main to alts, effectively increasing their potential storage capacity.Quote:
Originally Posted by joshdavis271
Except I don't see houses as anything other than a gil sink and feature of the game. Therefore, SE should be able to do whatever is necessary to ensure that the maximum number of people enjoy the feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravton
There is no wealth redistribution when it comes to redistributing houses.
I would be fine with that, assuming the player wasn't able to make another arrangement prior to the deadline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphirauge_Solasfola
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10-18-2017, 05:26 PMGnorokAs already mentioned many times in many threads: Put in a random timer between relinquishing a plot and when it´s available on the market again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
or
Provide sufficient wards that everone who wants to buy a house can buy one. -
10-18-2017, 05:54 PMNiraves
As someone who owns multiple houses on one server, I can't say I agree with this OP.
I was pretty lucky to get a small personal house for myself when 4.1 dropped. Here we are, a week later, and in my ENTIRE WARD, I am the only house who has more than 40 items. The ONLY one. Only three other houses had more than ten items total, combining the yard and the house interior. Two of the mansions are entirely empty, the third one has three vendors and a summoning bell.
My house on my main and my house on my alt are both item capped. I worked hard to gather and craft everything in both of those houses. How is it fair to me that I should have to lose one of my houses so that someone else can buy it and then never use it? I use both of my homes every day. I put in the time and work to craft and decorate them. I don't see how people like me are the problem, it seems to me like the people who buy a house and then NEVER use it are the issue. -
10-19-2017, 12:06 AMPentheaWhat players do with their own house is their own business as long as it's not against the terms of use. A player decorating or not decorating their house is a poor argument to allow them keep it or to take it away. The problem has to do with the amount of houses available to the player population, not the quality of decoration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niraves
The game is designed so that you can do everything on one character and SE do nothing to encourage playing alts save for allowing them to be made. You can't even mail your alts. Alts being able to buy plots is definitely an oversight...unfortunately the housing system is riddled with them, so here we are. If you own more than one personal house and one fc house on a single server, you're part of the problem. Whether you decorated them lovingly or not. -
10-19-2017, 01:07 AMAbelfei
They earned the right to buy them, if you didn't get one, it's because you were too slow or couldn't compete with their gil. Why should you get a house for putting in less work and time then people that got them? Nothing is stopping you from buying and flipping either. And no, I did not get a house at Shirogane and no I do not flip houses. I reiterate, if housing is so important to you, find a way to get competitive with people who obviously want them more than you do. Bottom line is, in order to get a house, you have to be rich, timely, smart, crafty, saavy etc. You're not just going to get handed one.
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10-19-2017, 01:15 AMPentheaLess work? Do you not know loads of people didn't get houses because of server queues, lobby errors, the patch not downloading and the launcher having errors? God it's so patronising when people say "you obviously didn't work hard enough" when several issues outside of a player's power affect their chances to even log in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abelfei
Not even the fact that it's against the terms of use and if you're caught you could get banned or even lose your account?Quote:
Originally Posted by Abelfei
Yes because having all those traits magically makes lobby, server and launcher errors disappear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abelfei