4.1 and us tanks

did i hear right that WAR gets an aoe shield?

and that DRK gets nothing?

...i am not really thaat surprised to be honest...

so PLD and WAR have both better mitigation, damage, selfheal and utility now than DRK..?

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Originally Posted by Schrute

Pld is very comparable to WAR in dps atm and plds bring a lot of raid utility. Cover in 4vs is a godsend -covering the main healer after almaguest to stop Aero and earthshaker from killing them, allowing both tanks to remain in tank stance, not to mention divine veil and passage of arms for almaguest and any other big raid wide dmg going out. War has no raid utility to midigate raid wide dmg and in many cases PLD can out dps war. It should not be this close between the two. I do not see how making unchained not sharing a CD timer with IR would make it OP. OP for pulling yes but other than that it will never be used again because it is a HUGE dps loss to use it in lieu of inner release. I suggest MINOR potency buffs because of how unforgiving WAR rotation and the fact war brings way less raid utility than PLD. And if war's utility and identity is locked into being the best dmg dealer of the 3 tanks then it should be without question.

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WAR is unforgiving compared to the other tanks, I agree, but when played perfectly, the best players can out DPS the other tanks. Which is why any DPS increase, is only going to make them the go to tank like in HW again.
PLDs utility is in teamate support, and WAR has 2, both of which are hard to see for different reasons. But the one that currently matters to every group composition, is holmgangs short timer.

WAR is no longer as good in the OT role, as DRK and PLD are.

Thats why lowering the dmg of a single target for WAR i think is better, than giving it to DRK, as some ppl suggest.
(Its the closest thing to a cover/TBN, w/o being a direct copy. Similar to tempered will is to plunge, yet different)

Some want WAR to deal more DPS as its support, but with how every fight is a DPS check, and every fight can be won with WARs lack of teammate support/raid wide mitigation, it's too desirable.
(If this were an offline game, id agree to giving WAR more offense.)

Instead of direct potency buffs, some sort of way to lessen the penalty to mess ups would be better, as that would clear up the DPS, w/o going even higher than the current best WAR players. (I couldnt even suggest where to start on this, so I could be wrong, and it may be possible to raise potency buffs to fix this, w/o helpping the best players.)

As for unchained with IR, as I said, it "sounds" like it would make WAR a little too good, but I could be wrong.
Part of me thinks it should be a sort of middle ground.
Like, they share a CD still, but the CD of the oppossing ability is only half as long.
I know ppl want to stack them at times, but if the CD wasnt as long for the other, it wouldnt feel AS much of a loss, knowing they can alternate between them if they NEED to. (as WAR will be MTing more often than not now.)

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Originally Posted by Tint

did i hear right that WAR gets an aoe shield?

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Wait what? was this in the live letter and i missed it?
(woulda preferred a dmg down, of minor potency, like -7% if this is true.)

but to address the DRK comment, DRK gets TBN, the problem being that DRK is now the "lesser" in every category, even team support, if WAR gets a AoE shield that is anywhere near too potent. (anything above 10% is too potent/unfair)

EDIT: actually a way to ballance this sort of, is to make TBN be mixed with Dark Arts, and become an AoE. It would be a DPS loss, but if the group cant survive, its something.
(Of course then WAR really needs something to lower dmg dealt to the raid, like a 2nd reprisal)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Wait what? was this in the live letter and i missed it?

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it's from the unofficial translation... :O

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ve_part_xxxix/

"Shake it Off to become some sort of defensive buff barrier for the party" - under job adjustments for WAR

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Originally Posted by Tint

it's from the unofficial translation... :O

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ve_part_xxxix/

"Shake it Off to become some sort of defensive buff barrier for the party" - under job adjustments for WAR

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Bah, thats what I get for sticking to the forums to see the translations lol, they just put "We'll give details about adjustments in the patch notes"

So Square continues to ignore DRK and it's multitude of problems.....

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Originally Posted by NellMoshroca

So Square continues to ignore DRK and it's multitude of problems.....

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worse, if that shake it off barrier its a thing we are complety doom, DRK need more love that WAR idk why they hide all the info about us.

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Originally Posted by shao32

worse, if that shake it off barrier its a thing we are complety doom, DRK need more love that WAR idk why they hide all the info about us.

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I was annoyed it was a buff, since WAR is more of the "Attack to defend" like inner beast, but Shake it off does come at a cost, it requires shaking off one of your other self buffs,, like vengeance/thrill, which makes it less bad. but DRK is still in need of some help now.

WARs in a good spot, but the problem is, word of mouth puts WAR in a bad spot.

Most ppl fear bringing WAR over DRK, but in reality, once ur doing savage, WAR is easily the better, I actually groan when i get DRK replacements for our WAR.
Similar with other people ive noticed.
(I also groan when i get a DRK tank in Lv61-69 content, if they dont have gear above the iLv, due to their lower amount of CDs, and need to treat it like a Lv70 dungeon)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

I was annoyed it was a buff, since WAR is more of the "Attack to defend" like inner beast, but Shake it off does come at a cost, it requires shaking off one of your other self buffs,, like vengeance/thrill, which makes it less bad. but DRK is still in need of some help now.

WARs in a good spot, but the problem is, word of mouth puts WAR in a bad spot.

Most ppl fear bringing WAR over DRK, but in reality, once ur doing savage, WAR is easily the better, I actually groan when i get DRK replacements for our WAR.
Similar with other people ive noticed.
(I also groan when i get a DRK tank in Lv61-69 content, if they dont have gear above the iLv, due to their lower amount of CDs, and need to treat it like a Lv70 dungeon)

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yup, idk i dont want to take hasty conclusions until the patch notes are up, but for now looks pretty bad for us and they silence about our changes make me fear we just get minor adjustment becoming the new paladin of heavensward.

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Originally Posted by shao32

yup, idk i dont want to take hasty conclusions until the patch notes are up, but for now looks pretty bad for us and they silence about our changes make me fear we just get minor adjustment becoming the new paladin of heavensward.

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Yes, lets please not do the hasty conclusions.

We don't know what kinda buff shake it off offers. DR? HP? Status Removal? Enmity reduction? Speed boost? DPS Buff? Who knows.

We don't know what 'activated by using other abilities' means. It could mean we need to build up say 5 stacks using CDs and be really hard to use once per fight.

It may be weak. It may be some stupid thing no one cares about for all this trouble.

"Other job adjustments" usually means minor tweaks like potencies which drk can get. Or they may get nothing.

We don't know. Please don't start whining about how fair and unfair the war/drk life is when we don't have any details about anything.

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Originally Posted by Aana

We don't know what kinda buff shake it off offers. DR? HP? Status Removal? Enmity reduction? Speed boost? DPS Buff? Who knows.

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We know its a "Defensive buff party barrier" so not likely a DPS buff, since that woudl be offensive. If it requires a defensive CD like Thrill/Vengance, as they said, then it most likely would need to also add enough defense for the WAR to not mind sacrificing the CD. So most likely an AoE version of TBN. Status removal would sound reasonable, but is unlikely considering the cost. (and uselessness of not being able to remove anything important)

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Originally Posted by Aana

We don't know what 'activated by using other abilities' means. It could mean we need to build up say 5 stacks using CDs and be really hard to use once per fight.

It may be weak. It may be some stupid thing no one cares about for all this trouble.

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depending on which translations u read, it says it removes all defensive buffs, so if u pop them all, it eats them all. (and increasing the effectiveness of the party buff)

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Originally Posted by Aana

"Other job adjustments" usually means minor tweaks like potencies which drk can get.

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potencies is barely what DRK needs, which is why "other minor changes" isnt enough.
(Though a potency addition to blood spiller is needed, due to how TBN is a DPS loss, since MP is so much more valuable than blood, along with lost GCDs for both blood and MP by using the GCD.

WAR is already ahead, so its already within reason to be worried.
(Not like being worried does anything anyways)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

(Not like being worried does anything anyways)

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DING DING DING! We have a winner!

As for the potencies thing, people seem to have this double mind. On the one hand War damage is what makes it OP. On the other hand its focus on damage is why its a weak class that offers nothing. This forum is really confused when it comes to damage being enough. If you are in the 1st group, then potencies are a fine way to fix drk. If you aren't then pld is the only tank worth playing.

The patch notes will reveal all.

Ill just be happy if war gets something to use while OT. Pld can use CDs while OT to help people. I kinda like that approach. We have all these buttons that do nothing if we aren't taking damage. Using them to do something else when we aren't eating busters to the face is a nice direction I think.

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Originally Posted by Aana

We have all these buttons that do nothing if we aren't taking damage. Using them to do something else when we aren't eating busters to the face is a nice direction I think.

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yeah, thats how I felt in my old raid group. (sort of, I was always MT, but felt that when i was OT for any reason, I wasnt able to utilize my CDs)
of course the correct way to use them, is to swap more often, so the tanks can stay out of tank stance longer (which for my current group, our tanks never use tank stances, not even to start off a fight, and they never swap, so our OT is "wasting" their CDs, even in O4S, our WAR is just using holmgang, and holding onto CDs they never really use.

while i was a fan of the "2nd reprisal" idea to WAR, this isnt completely against WARs play style, and since WAR always has inner beast, this is a good way to use up CDs.

(Still salty about DRK though lol)

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Originally Posted by Schrute

WAR:
Shake it off >> mini infuriate OR anything else really
Unchained and inner release no longer share same CD timer
Mini potency buffs

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Id love to just see Inner release replace Unchained for both stances for a few reasons. Mainly if a warrior is going for damage they won't be in defiance ever so having the ability to access any beast gauge abilities at discount in either stance would be a massive benefit(not to mention you could stance swap for even more damage in the middle of the Inner release combo). But unless anything has changed all we can do is wait patiently for the notes to come out. God I hope the shake it off change comes soon.

Players on the Japanese WAR mega-thread have posted clarifications for the Shake It Off changes, not sure where they got it since I didn't see the Live Letter, maybe the full description was in there.

Here is what they say:
- Shake It Off will provide an AoE shield that can protect party members in range and is based on a percentage of the WAR's max HP.
- Recast 60s.
- Base percent is 4% plus any of the designated CDs buffs will be consumed if active and provide an extra 4% for a potential total of 20%.

Keep in mind, that's second hand info and not from a dev, so it may be wrong.

They also seem confused about the Fell Cleave change stuff much like here on the English forums.

As for the lack of DRK changes announced, there haven't been as many complaints about it as on here but there were a few that pretty much amounted to "Sigh ... no DRK changes".

a 20% shield from war hp? DRK time to use living dead bcs we dont survive this

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Here is what they say:
- Shake It Off will provide an AoE shield that can protect party members in range and is based on a percentage of the WAR\\'s max HP.
- Recast 60s.
- Base percent is 4% plus any of the designated CDs buffs will be consumed if active and provide an extra 4% for a potential total of 20%.

Keep in mind, that\\'s second hand info and not from a dev, so it may be wrong.

They also seem confused about the Fell Cleave change stuff much like here on the English forums.

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A Warrior hp based shield with half the cd of divine veil AND the potency to be double as good as DV/more uptime?

WHAT THE FUCK SQUARE ENIX

Srsly Warrior should not have utility outside of damage. My Shake it off replacement would have been a combo action to Holmgang to make you move during it upon activation or an attack that does more dmg the less hp you have to also combo with holmgang

But this is idiotic

That's actually not particularly OP. I mean it's good enough but when you realize how it would be in practice it's just okay. I mean I like it but it's most definitely not OP. It actually makes WAR more of an OT role, which it's been a MT role for a long time due to how easy it gets aggro and can swap into dps stance.

But MT or OT, in savage you CANT just blow you CDs all at once. Every one requires both tanks to have CDs for mechanics. So a 4% aoe shield every min is actually just right, I'd say. At most you'd get 2 20% shake it offs in maybe o2s, that's it. And in casual content a 20% shield doesn't really matter anyway and will help not so great healers so it's not bad if it's true.

I assume Thrill, RI, Vengeance and maybe rampart would be consumed. Seeing as two of those skills have 2 min cds, it doesn't actually have the full 20% every minute. It would be 12% every 90 seconds or so.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

So a 4% aoe shield every min is actually just right, I\\'d say. At most you\\'d get 2 20% shake it offs in maybe o2s, that\\'s it. And in casual content a 20% shield doesn\\'t really matter anyway and will help not so great healers so it\\'s not bad if it\\'s true.

I assume Thrill, RI, Vengeance and maybe rampart would be consumed. Seeing as two of those skills have 2 min cds, it doesn\\'t actually have the full 20% every minute. It would be 12% every 90 seconds or so.

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Which is still significantly better than a 10% pala based hp shield with heal trigger every 2 minutes -,-

We wars got some nice raid utility, but at what cost? I'm amazed no one else is panicking about the Fellcleave and inner release comment.... I HOPE HE MISSPOKE!

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Originally Posted by Schrute

We wars got some nice raid utility, but at what cost? I'm amazed no one else is panicking about the Fellcleave and inner release comment.... I HOPE HE MISSPOKE!

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so? the whole war side of the community complained that if palading had utility it should not have the damage, they gave war the damage then complained about utility now you get utility and going to complain about damage again? I'd say a smalll potency reduction wont break it for war, even then It might not even be a potency reduction and even if it was I would not surprised and you should not worry. The ones that need the help right now are DRK as to me is the only tank that atm is just not the best at anything. pld and war are leads on mitigation and damage and for the looks of it utility now while drk is not as good on either dps, mitigation nor utility but atleast they are the best at MT dps even tho with the current meta is irrelevant as we spend 90% on dps stance.

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Originally Posted by shao32

a 20% shield from war hp? DRK time to use living dead bcs we dont survive this

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I laughed but it hurt a lot. I really hope we at least get something out of this...

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

so? the whole war side of the community complained that if palading had utility it should not have the damage, they gave war the damage then complained about utility now you get utility and going to complain about damage again? I'd say a smalll potency reduction wont break it for war, even then It might not even be a potency reduction and even if it was I would not surprised and you should not worry.

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で、フェルクリーブで使命と原初の解放が、今まで個別にアクションそうといられたんですけど、スタンスによって使える使えないが変わるので、お引き換えアクションになります
"As for Fell Cleave and Inner Release, until now they've been separate actions, but whether or not you can use them changes depending on stance, so they will become interchangable actions."

Depending on what you think this means for war it could be very bad, because it could mean that fell cleave may only be usable under inner release? This was the cost I was talking about. This is not a minor nerf for raid utility.

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Originally Posted by SunAurel

Which is still significantly better than a 10% pala based hp shield with heal trigger every 2 minutes -,-

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It's....a little better. Not significantly bc as I stated you won't just blow your CDs willy nilly. It's 12% every 90 seconds if you're a bad tank that doesn't use Cds and dies constantly to tankbusters. Or in fights such as O1 or 2 normal mode where OT is literally just a dps(whyyyy???).

But....PLD also has its shield constantly blocking attacks, the ever useful intervention and the improved 20% CD cover, and the utility emergency clemency of which WAR has no equivalent. And War dps is only baaaaarely above PLD...like less than 50 dps, so I don't mind this war buff at all, if anything it brings WAR and PLD more on par.........but seriously rip DRK.

Veil is a 10% shield every 2 minutes at zero cost whatsoever. This thing (allegedly via unofficial translation) is a 4% shield every min (8% every 2). Stop getting your knickers in a twist. It's flat out worse than veil unless you CONSUME a cooldown.

This isn't some pld killer. Sure you can use your ENTIRE defensive suite and beat veil. Jebus chill out people. This is actually a reasonable ability. Worse than the equivalent that has a direct tradeoff to increase power and has some nuance in how to use it to make it legit interesting to figure out how best to use it.

This is a really nice direction and we should hope they continue this interesting and reasonable power style abilities for all tanks and jobs.

Kudos to SE for taking a terribad ability and making a reasonably powered, useful, easy to use yet nuanced ability that even fits the theme of the job. Nicely done.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

snip

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In that case passage of arms needs a wayyy faster deployment time and DV still needs ita cd cut short by around 30 seconds because since warrior has more hp, their 8% shield is wayyy better than a 10% paladin hp shield and the sacrifice of one or 2 cd's for such a shield is a valid trade off since healer can dps and tbn/int./cov. exist to shield the war

I'd still have prefered that warrior gets a holmgang interaction and stays true to damage tank

Also i don t like how they assimilate the tanks which is my biggest annoyance tbh...and drk NEEDS help

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Originally Posted by SunAurel

In that case passage of arms needs a wayyy faster deployment time and DV still needs ita cd cut short by around 30 seconds because since warrior has more hp, their 8% shield is wayyy better than a 10% paladin hp shield and the sacrifice of one or 2 cd's for such a shield is a valid trade off since healer can dps and tbn/int./cov. exist to shield the war

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WAR doesn't have more HP than PLD outside of Defiance, so DV would be stronger than an 8% shield from Shake it Off. In Defiance, 8% of WAR's HP is the same as 10% of PLD's HP, so the shields would be equally as strong (but that would mean you're in tank stance which isn't a good thing). If the shield worked with Thrill of Battle's HP boost before consuming it, it would still be slightly weaker than the 10% from DV.

PLD still has more utility. It can rotate DV and PoA every minute to match Shake it Off's cooldown (if it doesn't get increased), Cover is great for things like Critical Hit in O3S and Aero III/Earthshakers in O4S, and Intervention is a lot of free mitigation during any fight. WAR isn't going to burn multiple cooldowns every time Shake it Off is up because they're its only mitigation. PLD/DRK have a lot of free mitigation for every tankbuster through Sheltron/TBN, WAR doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Schrute

で、フェルクリーブで使命と原初の解放が、今まで個別にアクションそうといられたんですけど、スタンスによって使える使えないが変わるので、お引き換えアクションになります
"As for Fell Cleave and Inner Release, until now they've been separate actions, but whether or not you can use them changes depending on stance, so they will become interchangable actions."

Depending on what you think this means for war it could be very bad, because it could mean that fell cleave may only be usable under inner release? This was the cost I was talking about. This is not a minor nerf for raid utility.

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That wouldn't make sense, inner release is a level 70 skill, fell cleave 54, that would make the skill useless for low leveled toons

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Originally Posted by Launched

PLD/DRK have a lot of free mitigation for every tankbuster through Sheltron/TBN, WAR doesn't.

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wat ?

WAR can Holmgang every 3min, which is incredibly good for tank busters. On top of that, Vengence and ToB are up every 2min, and they still have RI for physical damage and Rampart. Compared to Shadow Wall and Sentinel with their 3min CDs and HG/LD with 7/5 min CD, WAR effectively has more mitigation available through CDs than the other tanks, without even counting RI since it's physical only and might be useless in a lot of instances (just like Dark Mind for DRK). And if you, for whatever reasons, need any more survivability than that (which you shouldn't with current fights, but we never know, Ultimate might give us such needs), you still have the possibility to go Defiance and use IB and Equilibrium.

Instead of looking solely at the number of available CDs, you should look at their durations and recast times. Shorter recast CDs are what makes WAR so good. On top of that, you might be able to sacrifice a CD for Shake it off when it's at the end of its duration. For example, you use Vengence for a TB, which lasts 15 seconds. If raid-wide mitigation is needed some time after, you can use Shake it off at the last remaining second on Vengence and depending on the duration of Shake it off (which we still don't know about), it might be completely do-able and worth it since you wouldn't really "sacrifice" anything and still boost Shake it off.



I really hope that DRK will get something in that patch. I really do. But they didn't even mention the job at all in the LL and it saddens me.

I think he means like....Short CD readily available defensive buffs. If you're only taking one hit from the TB you can easily just pop sheltron for a 25% damage reduction and just forego CDs. WAR doesn't really have an equivalent to that(well Inner Beast but that doesn't count bc tank stance.)

Anyway that's a good example for a time to use it. Take O1s, for the first TB, he roars immediately after iirc so you can sac vengeance fot a shield.

What do you think about DRK?

maybe, I think DRK need some buff like WAR.

I'm not holding my breath for any buffs to DRK, but they would be much appreciated.

Honestly, the changes to Shake It Off sound absolutely idiotic, and not just because it's now got WAR competing with Divine Veil.

I don't see it changing Savage obscenely, since there are always going to be bosses that demand you balance your cooldowns. It might be handy to use before the cooldown expires when nothing is coming your way, but I'm skeptical.

I was getting my use out of Shake It Off. If it's removing defensive buffs, and you were using it for the debuff removal... it's going to make survival a bit tougher. Maybe I'm just cherry-picking a situation, but I was perfectly fine with it being an incredibly niche ability.

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Originally Posted by ScotchyScotch

And yet one tank has their mini CD locked behind tank stance and a guarantee of dps loss for using it.

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Something something near 100% uptime WAR perfect.

I kind of wish they would just rework dark arts in general it's just no fun relying so heavily on resources to push out numbers...And spamming dark arts is a bit annoying

Shake it off will be almost entirely useless in savage. MT or OT you need cds for every tier except O2s since the downtime between TBs is so long you can potentially pop everything for a shield. But a 4% shield per min is definitely better than what it is now. That's about as much shield as succor provides. It probably won't save anyone but it might save a sch from needing to succor!

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Originally Posted by SunAurel

A Warrior hp based shield with half the cd of divine veil AND the potency to be double as good as DV/more uptime?

WHAT THE FUCK SQUARE ENIX

Srsly Warrior should not have utility outside of damage. My Shake it off replacement would have been a combo action to Holmgang to make you move during it upon activation or an attack that does more dmg the less hp you have to also combo with holmgang

But this is idiotic

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Get out. Now.

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Originally Posted by SunAurel

Which is still significantly better than a 10% pala based hp shield with heal trigger every 2 minutes -,-

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Which PLD gets alongside party wide damage reduction skill at level 70, intervention, clemency, and Cover with basically the same damage and a rotation that's braid dead easy to learn and do at any point in a fight.

Meanwhile WAR gets...similar damage as PLD and...a shield every 60 seconds.

The only reason you don't want WAR to be good is because it'd make PLD worse by comparison. That's soooo petty.

And I'm not even getting into poor DRK.