Good bye FFXIV tanking..... maybe.....

I understand op's feeling but I disagree with your method. You said you dictate the speed of the dungeon right? Then why don't do that properly? like me, sometime I feel to pull from the first mob to the last, I will do it. And sometimes I feel to pull 3 by 3 by 3 in small pack, if you pull more for me you tank, simple and clear. Others are unhappy? Then quit; I m been kicked? enjoy your 30 min queue cuz I will be instant queued in another dungeon with hopefully ppl that follow my lead. It's ok if you want to run slow.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Hmm who do u guys even run with cause I do large pulls but I could see ddeath happening pretty swiftly on some of them , People can barely handle the to courel and other six adds in temple of fist. Or Ive seen healers not be able to handle to two apes in the last msq I want to try the full pull but feel as tho it would end in failure. I have done the pull in kugune pull everything to last boss but those adds dont hit that hard

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Well you need to be aware of your party makeup. If you have a Bard they definitely can AOE with Mage and Army. Melee should be using their AOE skills as well. As I stated earlier one big key to those pulls is not having Melee waste a level 1 LB on a first boss, unless the DPS is so low on the first boss the healer can't keep up. Save those Ranged LBs for Trash packs. Healers need to have their good heal spells ready for trash packs or at least have some kind of mitigation. A swiftcast Holy on WHM goes a long way along with Presence of Mind.

AST has Celestial Opposition but I know some like to save it for card spam. Usually I like stunning the mobs once the Tank has them all and settled into place it helps with getting your mitigation spells ready and big heals.

What tends to go wrong during big pulls.

Healers that have a stun, not using a stun. Or using things that can speed up heals, Lightspeed/ Presence of Mind...
DPS that do not AOE
Tanks that do not secure aggro on mobs while running to another pack.
Tanks not removing a regen on them before heading off to collect trash packs.
DPS that Kite mobs away instead of running to the tank so they can collect any wild mobs
Tanks that use cooldowns reactively. If you're going to use your big cooldowns you need to have it prepped. That server tick and animation can lead to your death.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Tanks that use cooldowns reactively. If you're going to use your big cooldowns you need to have it prepped. That server tick and animation can lead to your death.

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This is the biggest challenge my DRK friend faces. I heal for him, and earlier this morning, we wiped a few times on Temple of the Fist because he's having trouble understanding which CDs he needs to use and when.

It seems almost unreasonably hard to do on DRK.

It's like he needs to use Living Dead once the enemies are grouped up, and this creates some seriously low quality-of-life gameplay for us. It's hard for me to keep track of his Living Dead in all the chaos, and the overall margin of error is so narrow.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Going fast and pulling big makes me feel more of a tank than not doing that.
What good are my defenses and skill if I am not to be challenged!?

Nothing makes you feel alive quite like when you are at critical HP.

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I wanted ta quote this 'cause I think it inadvertently tags the problem with tankin' in XIV quite handily, no offense ta tha cat. The problem is ... There is no challenge.

The problem ain't pullin' big or askin' ta pull big. The problem is that's tha norm. An' it's tha norm because dungeons be toothless. I dunno if I wanna say it's a problem, per se, that's jest how dungeons be in this game. As other people've said in this thread, the rewards generally wouldn't be worth tha (relative) effort ofherwise.

But, it makes it not fun. Ta me, I wanna stress. I hate ta use WoW as an example 'cause it be tha easiest way ta make people defensive an' dismissive, but it's kinda what happened ta that game. Heroics in BC were a challenge, aye mostly because ye were fightin' against systems an' mechanics. But it made it fun ta try ta make it faster. When ye were speed runnin' Shattered Halls it was 'cause ya (and yer group) knew what ta do. Speedin' through dungeons wasn't the norm because it was a challenge, an not somethin' ya'd do with randoms.

When ya got ta WoTLK, well...That's about tha time tanks became DPS with defensive coldowns. Subtlety was lost an' gameplay became throwin' yer numbers at the enemy numbers an' seein' who's was bigger. When ye were speed runnin Azjol Nerub, it was because ya (and yer group) were breathin'. Speedin' through dungeons became tha norm because it was the path of least resistance, and even randoms handled it just so.

This was tha model XIV copied. I wanna stress again - that's fine. That's what XIV has. And has had. This thread alone shows there're plenty o' people who enjoy that. It ain't new, as someone else said we were doin' it back in Wanderer's Palace. An' it was new then, so it was fun. Now though? Nothin's changed since then. If anythin' the systems support it more now, everyone does more damage, takes less damage an' heals it faster. Monsters aren't more dangerous either, just higher numbers ta throw ours at. Yawn. Move outta one red stuff ya moved outta 'em all.

If numbers are all they can pull, coordination isn't a factor, an' maximizin' DPS is tha highest thing a tank can do ta be a good tank ... Imma just DPS instead. And again, thas fine. That's what this game has. I like dungeons an' I will most certainly keep doin' 'em. As a Black Mage. Or a Ninja. Red Mage if I'm lazy. But not a tank.

I guess the bottom line is most of the time I was tanking and pulling to my speed the runs took between 15-20 minutes. When I dps and see the "mass pulls" it still takes between 15-20 minutes. There really is not much time saved give maybe a 1 or 2 minutes, but it goes ether sometimes mine are faster sometimes the speeds are. If we wipe we lose 2-4 minutes.

I quit because I'm tired of being punished for running it at my speed which in most cases is on par with the speed runs.

As far as playing with my FC mates/friends, most have quit because of boredom and lack of new content.

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Originally Posted by Morrigu

I guess the bottom line is most of the time I was tanking and pulling to my speed the runs took between 15-20 minutes. When I dps and see the "mass pulls" it still takes between 15-20 minutes. There really is not much time saved give maybe a 1 or 2 minutes, but it goes ether sometimes mine are faster sometimes the speeds are. If we wipe we lose 2-4 minutes.

I quit because I'm tired of being punished for running it at my speed which in most cases is on par with the speed runs.

As far as playing with my FC mates/friends, most have quit because of boredom and lack of new content.

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The endless salt from complete wipes is always entertaining though. You're not alone as none of my game friends play MMO at all and tanking for EXDR is suffering on DRK.

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

I just want to say one thing: you're not forced to pull a lot.

When I'm tank, the first thing I look it's the gear of my heal, to see if he can handle a big pull.
Second thing: my dps. If they are a Nin and a Drg, I don't make a big pull, it's useless. But if I've a Brd or a Blm, then I'll do a big pull.

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Sizing up the party is what every good tank should be doing. You don't run and play leeroy jenkins just cause the party does. You look up all current jobs and players, as well as gear to make that determination, aside from just asking "pull big or nah?".

The example of pulling with drg/nin is probably one of the better ones.
But if I have at least one AoE player like SAM RDM SMN BRD MCH BLM, I'll pull a bit more since we can take them out a bit quicker than most other jobs.

Determine the heals gear and size it up in comparison to yours. Is it better? Is it worse? What level is the gear and what dungeon are you in? Is it over? Or under? These factors always matter before you pull. Start with 1 small pull of 3 mobs, see how everyone functions, and adjust to bigger pulls if necessary.

If you see people single targeting mobs and not really pushing dps at 4 mobs+, then switch to shorter amounts of mobs. Pace the dungeon if you need to according to what you have.

Speed pulls do make things faster. My temple of the fist today was 13 mins long bc the tank pulled everything(tho that did make me uneasy but the healer managed) with a 320 rdm(me) and 330 sam, imagine how fast it'd be if we were in 340.

But honestly idrc if the tank pulls big or not. Just do you.

why are we having another threat about the same topic? Is like every snoflake nowday that think they feel stress because of a game makes a whine threat. I remember when forums where for thoughtful disscussions, feedback, questions and so on, not to whine about why you are too speacial to do the vare minimum. this topic is to me the quivalent of a dps complaining because they dont want to do rotations because they play for fun so you know 1,2,3 all the way.

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Originally Posted by Lynesse

This is the biggest challenge my DRK friend faces. I heal for him, and earlier this morning, we wiped a few times on Temple of the Fist because he's having trouble understanding which CDs he needs to use and when.

It seems almost unreasonably hard to do on DRK.

It's like he needs to use Living Dead once the enemies are grouped up, and this creates some seriously low quality-of-life gameplay for us. It's hard for me to keep track of his Living Dead in all the chaos, and the overall margin of error is so narrow.

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Sounds like you're both having an issue?

Is he using Abyssal Drain? http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/darkknight/
Dark Knight has the ability to recover HP on multiple targets and a few others like Sole Survivor, and Blackest Night

You can also take in mitigation skills like Rampart and Convalescence

Dark Knight has been heavily simplified...I can understand people's frustrations and challenge with it in HW...but it's not so bad now?

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

snip

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Edit: Oops. I don't want to hijack the thread! We got it! Thanks for the advice!

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Dark Knight has been heavily simplified...I can understand people's frustrations and challenge with it in HW...but it's not so bad now?

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DRK lost Foresight, and lost 'less often DA's Abyssal drains'. (also, in good gear,on trash mobs, foresight was darn near 15%+ mitigation. I think I reached around 20% mitigation in my i270 gear on DRK in 3.4, but in Alexander savage it was as weak as 5-7% depends on how good ur gear is, and the stats of the enemies.)
You also sacrifice a chunk of DPS to DA abyssal drain.
DRK gained Quietus and TBN.
(Technically DRK also lost its evasion bonus on dark dance. And I would argue its long lasting reprisal, which I honestly relied upon for physical tank busters in physical heavy fights. but reprisal is single target, and not related to the subject at hand.)

DRK is overly simple in holding hate, and doing DPS.
DRK is not however overly simplified in mitigation.

(Its actually better to pull big on DRK, due to not always having a CD up for every pull, so to stall for time, running to another group of enemies helps)

DRK requires MUCH more attention to timing to make it equal to heal.
(I usually dread having to heal DRKs now, due to how squishy they are if not played good enough, and they already used up their main CDs)

DA AD's heal doesnt help if you just got healed up enough to ruin half/most of the heal from the drain. But you cant just pop it when u want, u have to wait for the GCD, and you need to make sure its at an optimal point in your MP, and used to fill in when ur CDs are low. (since its a DPS loss)
Sole Survivor is off the GCD, but it wont trigger right away, and if u try to wait to the last second, its possible someone kills the enemy before the animation ends, and the game tick updates it having it.
AND if it does apply, you have to worry about being healed in that period of time. mainly end up using it for the MP.
If you miss out on some of the MP, thats a DPS loss as well.

The Blackest Night is your other mitigation, taking up the same mp as a DA before AD.
The difference being that it can almost recover the lost DPS.
Depending on pull size, it may or may not help u mitigate as much as DA+AD on larger pulls, but it does help you do more DPS since quietus works better on more mobs.
If you plan to go the "easy" route, just rely on TBN, for an extremely small amount of mitigation. (sometimes its back up before a CD is, but if ur pulling big enough, and ur DPS dont suck, you'll have decent CDs back up before its ready to use a 2nd time.)

So again, DRK is pretty straightforward in DPS/threat, and its basic mitigation.
But to actually compare to the survival, and ease on the healer, as a PLD or WAR, it's MUCH harder

Yeah I'm starting to realize that too. My drk in lvl 66 and lower dungeons is horrible at single pulls. I'm just so squishy and mp intensive I've been considering bigger pulls. But I'm squishy so the thought of a bigger pull is worrying. My thinking was more procs on salted earth, more hp recovery from Da-Ad, more procs on blood price. I don't know if quietus gives flat mp or if it scales with each mob hit though.

*this isn't even an issue on my pld. I can pull as much as I want and be just fine. Ya know, clemency.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Yeah I'm starting to realize that too. My drk in lvl 66 and lower dungeons is horrible at single pulls. I'm just so squishy and mp intensive I've been considering bigger pulls. But I'm squishy so the thought of a bigger pull is worrying. My thinking was more procs on salted earth, more hp recovery from Da-Ad, more procs on blood price. I don't know if quietus gives flat mp or if it scales with each mob hit though.

*this isn't even an issue on my pld. I can pull as much as I want and be just fine. Ya know, clemency.

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It's tougher while leveling for sure, you have enough cds for pretty much 1 big pull at a time. Quietus gives flat MP return based on lvl but it's for each enemy hit, so more mobs = more MP. Same with salted earth (gauge builder) and blood price, the more the better. You have to spread out cds as best you can and just hope the healer has your back. At least that's the way I felt while leveling drk.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Yeah I'm starting to realize that too. My drk in lvl 66 and lower dungeons is horrible at single pulls. I'm just so squishy and mp intensive I've been considering bigger pulls. But I'm squishy so the thought of a bigger pull is worrying. My thinking was more procs on salted earth, more hp recovery from Da-Ad, more procs on blood price. I don't know if quietus gives flat mp or if it scales with each mob hit though.

*this isn't even an issue on my pld. I can pull as much as I want and be just fine. Ya know, clemency.

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I can assure you, tanking will get much better once you hit 70 and get TBN. I would say while you level, especially once you get to Doma Castle, just work on controlling your pulls to make sure you don't bite off more than you can chew. Aggro shouldn't be a problem, but there's only so much you can do to mitigate.

TBN is a huge life-saver, but I wish DRK had something like Hallowed Ground instead.

My DRK friend now has big pulls down, but I still feel way safer when he's on his PLD.

I find that PLD can get by on Largesse + Regen, but I need to supplement this with Asylum for DRK. Cure during the pull -> Divine Benison -> Largesse -> Asylum -> Regen -> Swiftcast -> Holy -> Presence of Mind -> Aero III -> Tetra > Cure II > Benediction > Holy spam under Thin Air.

It's a lot of buttons, and he has to survive long enough for me to get Aero III out.

We both have to make zero mistakes, which makes every pull a mini heart attack.

PLD can drop Hallowed Ground and /sit for all I care. I mean, I'm exaggerating, but healing for a DRK is scary.

But I will say that when he's doing his rotation flawlessly, it's poetry.

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Originally Posted by Lynesse

TBN is a huge life-saver, but I wish DRK had something like Hallowed Ground instead.

My DRK friend now has big pulls down, but I still feel way safer when he's on his PLD.

I find that PLD can get by on Largesse + Regen, but I need to supplement this with Asylum for DRK. Cure during the pull -> Divine Benison -> Largesse -> Asylum -> Regen -> Swiftcast -> Holy -> Presence of Mind -> Aero III -> Tetra > Cure II > Benediction > Holy spam under Thin Air.

It's a lot of buttons, and he has to survive long enough for me to get Aero III out.

We both have to make zero mistakes, which makes every pull a mini heart attack.

PLD can drop Hallowed Ground and /sit for all I care. I mean, I'm exaggerating, but healing for a DRK is scary.

But I will say that when he's doing his rotation flawlessly, it's poetry.

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Whut? He uses living dead and then a few seconds before walking dead runs out ----> benediction and done.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Whut? He uses living dead and then a few seconds before walking dead runs out ----> benediction and done.

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That's one way of doing it, but he'd still need Asylum and Regen during the pull. All that does is change the order of things, it doesn't make them any simpler.

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Originally Posted by Lynesse

That's one way of doing it, but he'd still need Asylum and Regen during the pull. All that does is change the order of things, it doesn't make them any simpler.

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Well why don't you say directly that you want a tank where you don't have to do anything as healer?

Weird that my healer had never any issues when i was on drk during HW. All i've ever heard was "take what you want, they are all easy to heal"

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Well why don't you say directly that you want a tank where you don't have to do anything as healer?

Weird that my healer had never any issues when i was on drk during HW. All i've ever heard was "take what you want, they are all easy to heal"

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It's not HW anymore lol

I'm still getting used to using TBN on dungeon pulls, until you get TBN dark knight literally only has Shadow Wall as an all-purpose damage reduction cd. Rampart is good ofc but it doesn't really make up for how weak anticipation, awareness and convalescence are for damage reduction, nor how long of cd Shadow Wall has. Both the other tanks have more native cds in additional to role skills.

(for the record I do think awareness is a worthwhile cd, it's just impossible to tell how much it's actually reducing anytime you use it. For the most part it feels like you need to combine 2 of those cds to equal 1 normal reduction cd)

Shadow Wall really needs a 120 sec cd. It's kind of ridiculous that War has the same 30% DR which is 5 seconds longer AND returns 50 potency attack when hit, but DRK stuck with 180 sec cd.

DRK mitigation is pretty fine. I used to think it was kinda bad but once you get the hang of it, it works out fine. HW DRKs have the exact same mitigation as now bar foresight, but they also have TBN which is an incredible CD, 11k shield every 15 seconds is faaaar more useful than it feels like. Take the mobs in expert, they hit for like 3k, so rampart would mitigate 500 damage per hit, it would take 20 hits to equate one TBN.

But I will admit DRK does feel like it's missing one defensive CD, and personally I don't think TBN lasts long enough.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

DRK mitigation is pretty fine. I used to think it was kinda bad but once you get the hang of it, it works out fine. HW DRKs have the exact same mitigation as now bar foresight, but they also have TBN which is an incredible CD, 11k shield every 15 seconds is faaaar more useful than it feels like. Take the mobs in expert, they hit for like 3k, so rampart would mitigate 500 damage per hit, it would take 20 hits to equate one TBN.

But I will admit DRK does feel like it's missing one defensive CD, and personally I don't think TBN lasts long enough.

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Yeah my friend used to main PLD and said now that he doesn't have to overly manage mana he enjoys DRK, he hasn't felt squishy at all leveling it up and uses it in end game dungeons regularly now.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

DRK mitigation is pretty fine. I used to think it was kinda bad but once you get the hang of it, it works out fine. HW DRKs have the exact same mitigation as now bar foresight, but they also have TBN which is an incredible CD, 11k shield every 15 seconds is faaaar more useful than it feels like. Take the mobs in expert, they hit for like 3k, so rampart would mitigate 500 damage per hit, it would take 20 hits to equate one TBN.

But I will admit DRK does feel like it's missing one defensive CD, and personally I don't think TBN lasts long enough.

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I agree 100% with everything you've said.

My friend and I have quickly come to grips with DRK in big pulls, and I really understand now. It does feel like it's missing something, but DRK's survivability is actually very impressive with TBN, Dark Arts, and Abyssal Drain.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

It's not HW anymore lol

I'm still getting used to using TBN on dungeon pulls, until you get TBN dark knight literally only has Shadow Wall as an all-purpose damage reduction cd. Rampart is good ofc but it doesn't really make up for how weak anticipation, awareness and convalescence are for damage reduction, nor how long of cd Shadow Wall has. Both the other tanks have more native cds in additional to role skills.

(for the record I do think awareness is a worthwhile cd, it's just impossible to tell how much it's actually reducing anytime you use it. For the most part it feels like you need to combine 2 of those cds to equal 1 normal reduction cd)

Shadow Wall really needs a 120 sec cd. It's kind of ridiculous that War has the same 30% DR which is 5 seconds longer AND returns 50 potency attack when hit, but DRK stuck with 180 sec cd.

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And still DRK is not impossible to heal or way harder to heal than the other tanks. In leveling dungeons he feels squishy and that was always the case.

For the record: Awarness was ALWAYS a worthy cd.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

For the record: Awarness was ALWAYS a worthy cd.

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No, it was useless back in coil when bosses didn't crit AND it prevented you from receiving critical heals

I've always liked awareness, even when it wasn't popular ;) I was just pointing out that it's hard to use it as a single cd and feel good about it, it's one of those cd's you'd usually just pair with something else. I tend to pair it with anticipation on drk (in dungeons), for example.

And no, they aren't impossible to heal. I managed to get to lv70 with very few problems. But it does feel a lot weaker than WAR and PLD for leveling. One could argue that DRK is gimped all the way to 70, given that both PLD and WAR receive new def cd's in their post 50 climb while DRK does not.

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Originally Posted by Lynesse

It does feel like it's missing something, but DRK's survivability is actually very impressive with TBN, Dark Arts, and Abyssal Drain.

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I think they just need to fix Shadow Wall. It really needs to be 120 sec cd at most, and the duration pushed to 15 sec at min, preferably 20 sec in my opinion.

A lot of SB and HW levelling dungeons allow for big pulls which will give a massive amount of exp thanks to the way the exp chain bonus works. So not only do people level up faster, the dungeon goes faster as well. It's a win-win for everyone involved!

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I think they just need to fix Shadow Wall. It really needs to be 120 sec cd at most, and the duration pushed to 15 sec at min, preferably 20 sec in my opinion.

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That or up its defensive value to 40% to match Sentinel. But even so, I think Sentinel's CD is too long and is unjustified too. Same with Bulwark. Specially when right next to it on the same hotbar (I have all my CDs on the same bar) is a 2 minute CD that gives 100% block chance AND reduce raid damage taken by 15%, FIFTEEN flipping percent (Passage of Arms). But I digress.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

That or up its defensive value to 40% to match Sentinel. But even so, I think Sentinel's CD is too long and is unjustified too. Same with Bulwark. Specially when right next to it on the same hotbar (I have all my CDs on the same bar) is a 2 minute CD that gives 100% block chance AND reduce raid damage taken by 15%, FIFTEEN flipping percent (Passage of Arms). But I digress.

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The tradeoff here is the damage you won't deal during passage of arms. I don't think it's a bad designed CD overall, Bullwark is (random, long cooldown, pretty redundant with Shieldtron now).

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Originally Posted by MauvaisOeil

The tradeoff here is the damage you won't deal during passage of arms. I don't think it's a bad designed CD overall, Bullwark is (random, long cooldown, pretty redundant with Shieldtron now).

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I rather like bulwark, it's awesome for tanking a shitload of trash. But yes the cooldown on it is way to long and always was.

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Originally Posted by MauvaisOeil

The tradeoff here is the damage you won't deal during passage of arms. I don't think it's a bad designed CD overall, Bullwark is (random, long cooldown, pretty redundant with Shieldtron now).

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Ehhh, yes and no. PoA is better than Bulwark in every regard except the self "stun". And if you're optimizing, you can time it to have it up for 2 seconds between your GCDs and block the damage that matters then continue your rotation. What I meant in my earlier post is that Bulwark is far worse than PoA (60% vs 100%, personal vs raid-wide) yet has a 50% longer CD (3 vs 2 min). Bulwark would still be fine at 90s CD like WAR's RI, 120s at worst. It's not 100% block so not having a penalty is fine.

Think of it this way: Bulwark has the same CD as Sentinel, but is it as good as Sentinel? If the answer is no then its CD shouldn't be the same.

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Originally Posted by Thela

I rather like bulwark, it's awesome for tanking a shitload of trash. But yes the cooldown on it is way to long and always was.

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Bulwark isn't a bad effect, its CD is bad compared to what it does. Refer to Sentinel analogy above.

~ Phoenicia ~

If you are a tank and use DF you can never win, pull small someone will whine, pull big someone whines again so you literally cannot win in there(and if you get bad healer and DD then you whine). If i do dungeons they are always premade and if i don't get premade i just get my tomes from pvp, i don't have time gamble with DF when there is other alternatives that are way more enjoyable to do.

Precisely, bullwark is too long of a cooldown for it's effect, even if they are not worthless, it's poorly balanced .

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

I just want to say one thing: you're not forced to pull a lot.

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Excatly, you the one that controls the whole dun so change the run to make fun.
See ya around hun bun.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

No, it was useless back in coil when bosses didn't crit AND it prevented you from receiving critical heals

I've always liked awareness, even when it wasn't popular ;) I was just pointing out that it's hard to use it as a single cd and feel good about it, it's one of those cd's you'd usually just pair with something else. I tend to pair it with anticipation on drk (in dungeons), for example.

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Awarness was always usefull in dungeons and also during the HW raids...and since we are not sticking with old ARR times it was ALWAYS worthy, at least for people who know what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Awarness was always usefull in dungeons and also during the HW raids...and since we are not sticking with old ARR times it was ALWAYS worthy, at least for people who know what they are doing.

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OK, let me revise that.. It was considered useless by a large portion of the (forum) community. I know because I was on here defending it, though I can't seem to find any posts prior to 2015, which is when that convo would've been relevant. I've always used on it on War and Pld. It definitely helps in some regard, more so now than ever probably, but it is still impossible to tell how much it's helping because there's no way to tell how many crits it prevented. Could've been a lot, could've been none at all.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

OK, let me revise that.. It was considered useless by a large portion of the (forum) community. I know because I was on here defending it, though I can't seem to find any posts prior to 2015, which is when that convo would've been relevant. I've always used on it on War and Pld. It definitely helps in some regard, more so now than ever probably, but it is still impossible to tell how much it's helping because there's no way to tell how many crits it prevented. Could've been a lot, could've been none at all.

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Its obvious that you don't know how often it prevents crits but i remember how often i cursed on TS when it was on cooldown. If it prevented just the half of the crits i was cursing about, it is more than just worth. I know that people will say its useless because eeeeverything that is not a direct damage reduction or dps gain is useless for most of the people.