Faking disconnects

I definitely don't mind waiting 5-10 minutes. I understand a random 90k can happen--it's done so to me more times than I care to count--and I know that some people also try to fake DCing in the hopes that they're kicked for that. If they want to "Fake DC" and only take 3-4 minutes to come back, well, then I hope they like the immediate other option of leaving the duty on their own.

Of course, on the other hand, I try not to be so bad that I drive anyone to fake a disconnect. <_<

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Originally Posted by Crysten

prancing about on my moral high horse.

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That did make me smile - will have to use in a sentence today.

I never understood the need to 'fake dc' in the first place.

Just man up and take the penalty on the nose if you don't want to be in the dungeon, 'fake dcing' is being rude to everyone else in the group for no good reason. Even if you hated everyone else in the group, you could always blacklist them to help prevent the rare chance of ever seeing any of them again.

And if your logic behind it is 'I'm going to do something else for 30 minutes and then come back' then you really might as well have just dropped in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

I never understood the need to 'fake dc' in the first place.

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Botters and griefers will do it to speed up their profiting,or harassment.

Under optimal conditions, DC'ing should actually penalize the player at the data center select screen. You all know about the 90K errors. The server could just push an explicit error that forces them to either log back into the world they are still logged into and continue playing, or wait 30 minutes.

Should just cause a DF strike if you get kicked from duty, same thing that stacks up if you withdraw from a DF queue pop, since it's the same effect whether it's a real 90k or fake - you're wasting the time of the pugs in queue.

If it's a real 90k or a real situation to withdraw, then it's not a huge penalty unless you've been constantly 90king/withdrawing all day - at which point you should fix your internet or whatever situation caused you to constantly withdraw from queue instead of continuing to queue. If you constantly get kicked from duties you should probably reflect on yourself why it's happening.

If it's a serial faker then they'd have requeue penalties until the next day so whatever.

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Originally Posted by Jeykama

Should just cause a DF strike if you get kicked from duty, same thing that stacks up if you withdraw from a DF queue pop, since it's the same effect whether it's a real 90k or fake - you're wasting the time of the pugs in queue.

If it's a real 90k or a real situation to withdraw, then it's not a huge penalty unless you've been constantly 90king/withdrawing all day - at which point you should fix your internet or whatever situation caused you to constantly withdraw from queue instead of continuing to queue. If you constantly get kicked from duties you should probably reflect on yourself why it's happening.

If it's a serial faker then they'd have requeue penalties until the next day so whatever.

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I hope you start getting 90k errors every few minutes and then see what other players have to put up with. Before you blame it on there internet. Massive Disconnects they said is from ddos attacks so how is that the players fault.

You don't always get massive disconnects due to DDoS attacks all year round, do you? When something like that happens, it's more than reasonable to halt the DF penalty count server-wide, just like how certain measures are put in place during expansion launches to manage traffic.

I used to get frequent 90k disconnects back in 2.3 or 2.4 when our connecting submarine cable was damaged. What did I do? I stayed out of DF instead of trying my luck and wasting everyone's time even after knowing that my connection is unstable. If you have an unstable connection, you need to fix it or get your ISP to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

You don't always get massive disconnects due to DDoS attacks all year round, do you? When something like that happens, it's more than reasonable to halt the DF penalty count server-wide, just like how certain measures are put in place during expansion launches to manage traffic.

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By the time the devs realize there's an issue and halt the penalties hundreds of people across all 60+ servers will be unfairly affected, not to mention network issues aren't always related to DDoS or even related to SE at all.

These forums never cease to amaze me with the endless obsession with seeing other people being punished for every small thing, it's like the enjoyment of some people depends on other people being punished.

It's a matter of time before someone asks for perma bans if you don't say hi in a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Botters and griefers will do it to speed up their profiting,or harassment.

Under optimal conditions, DC'ing should actually penalize the player at the data center select screen. You all know about the 90K errors. The server could just push an explicit error that forces them to either log back into the world they are still logged into and continue playing, or wait 30 minutes.

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Lol this is idea is bad.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

I hope you start getting 90k errors every few minutes and then see what other players have to put up with. Before you blame it on there internet. Massive Disconnects they said is from ddos attacks so how is that the players fault.

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DDoS attacks don't happen every single day. Neither do internet issues. And if I was disconnecting like crazy I would be taking my own advice and not be queueing for instances.

If you're legitimately disconnecting that much, regardless of the cause you shouldn't be queuing. Obvious answer. Same answer if the servers are being unstable for whatever reason, avoid queuing. It doesn't take a genius to figure out when servers are unstable.

At any rate, I only suggested to incur a DF strike if you were kicked for whatever reason, not just because of a disconnect. You can report abusive kicks if you felt you didn't deserve it, but if you were offline/afk long enough it's not really any contest.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

By the time the devs realize there's an issue and halt the penalties hundreds of people across all 60+ servers will be unfairly affected, not to mention network issues aren't always related to DDoS or even related to SE at all.

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Which is why I noted my own experience, and stayed out of the DF until my connection problems were fixed.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

These forums never cease to amaze me ...

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There's a problem, and someone proposes a penalty. Let's discuss the merits of the penalty instead of turning it ad hominen as if that somehow supports your argument.

The original idea was that disconnecting does basically the same thing to the party as leaving early, hence it should be counted as leaving early and get penalties. It takes the idea further and proposes a strike, making the penalty equivalent to declining a queue.

Personally I can support it because I don't think it's "small thing". There are legitimate ways to leave a duty. If one tries to fake a disconnect to avoid the penalty, it's only fair to get a heavier penalty. Now if it is not faked and there really is network connection problems, then why are you even trying to queue, or trying to play the game at all? You should be trying to find out what the problem is, and fix it. If it's outside of your sphere of influence, then report it and do something else, instead of saying "it's not my fault so all of you are obliged to suffer from my disconnects".

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Now if it is not faked and there really is network connection problems, then why are you even trying to queue, or trying to play the game at all? You should be trying to find out what the problem is, and fix it. If it's outside of your sphere of influence, then report it and do something else, instead of saying "it's not my fault so all of you are obliged to suffer from my disconnects".

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You need two things to play this game that you must pay your own money for. Subscription and internet fees. If I d/c so frequently that the game is unplayable then yeah it makes sense to not bother logging in, but I've had occurrences where I d/c every few hours and I have no idea why or when it will stop and my ISP of course is being obliviously useless. I am not going to not play the game I am paying to play just because I -might- d/c in DF.

That is what vote kick is for, the group can simply replace me if it happens so, no, there is no suffering and any possible suffering incurred isn't the fault of someone who had an unforeseeable disconnect happen that was completely out of their control. It's not like I planned for it to disconnect me.

If I get 90k either because of my internet or the servers themselves I don't deserve a penalty to my game play as it is not my fault and it is out of my control. I've been on skype with people or on other streaming type media and the servers have 90k'd me off while my internet had no disruption in service so it wasn't even my internet that disconnected me in those cases, why should I log back in and end up with a penalty?

I mean I've even had times where my power kept going out randomly and you never know when it will stop. It goes out at say 2PM in the afternoon on Sunday and I lose connection in a DF group, it comes back on around 3PM, okay great, its back. So I wait a little bit to see if it seems fine, then log back in and try to DF, but then the power goes out again 20 mins into the content. How the heck was I supposed to foresee that?

I mean good on you that you chose to stay out of DF all that time until you knew for sure your connection was fixed, but you cannot force that on everyone else and not everyone elses issues are static like yours was and it might be more random, unforeseeable, and also the ISP might not even understand why it is happening. You were luckily privy to the information that it was a damaged cable that may take a bit of time to fix.

I am in control of when I log in and when I queue for DF. No one has the right to tell me "you can't play because you might d/c and ruin my DF". That is a beyond ridiculous demand to make.

You can't just punish people for disconnection problems. The innocent people get it worse because the people with the mentality to fake d/c just don't care and they'll probably be laughing at all the innocent people getting screwed over because of what they caused to happen.

There is one thing I could advocate for and that would be an exemption to the 5 min vote kick timer where you cannot vote kick someone within the first 5 mins of a duty. I feel that the 5 mins should be bypassed IF the player is fully disconnected and therefore it should allow people to kick that person, but no others as long as they are online until the 5 mins pass. I've been in groups where someone lost connection on entry or something then we are stuck missing someone for 5 mins if they don't come back. I've also lost connection on entry lately and the game doesn't let me back in for awhile and I feel bad that it happens, but not knowing the cause I cannot do anything about it. It would be fine if the group could have just removed me if they so chose.

The best way to put it is yes people do fake disconnect but not all disconnects are fake disconnects. Here's one many people may be unaware of that as far as I know your cable company is liable for when it occurs. Weather conditions like rain can add wear and tear to the cable outside. The water seeps into the cable connectors and starts eroding the wiring within. When this occurs you'll end up having predictable moments of disconnecting, for me it would always occur in the afternoon and vary from lasting from 1-3hrs in that time frame.

Basically if you find yourself always disconnecting at X time and you've concluded that it's not your modem or router, odds are your outside wiring needs to be replaced.

I've never run into this issue, but I'm a newb, so...

But anyways, thank you to those of you that DO wait. I can't remember what Dungeon it was, but when I was doing one for my MSQ, my power blipped out right before the final boss of the dungeon. As a DPS, I'd been waiting in queue for almost half an hour, and I was devastated that I wouldn't be able to finish the dungeon. I hopped back on (took almost ten minutes, because I forgot my BIOS boots my Linux by default, and had to reboot after the first boot), and my party was there, patiently waiting for me, and said, "we couldn't kick you on your first run!" I was so happy, I could have cried.

Honestly, the overwhelming majority of my experience with other players so far has been extremely positive, with the number of "bad" incidents being able to be counted on one hand. I've been so pleasantly surprised by this (my first experience with MMOs), because I've always heard that many MMO vets were assholes.

Those people who say "kick me". In a sense it's harassment to tell people to kick you.

You realize there is a 4-hour cooldown to kick another player once you do it. Those people AFKing in frontlines get kicked, and I'd rather use it where it's warranted because I've ran into situations where I can't kick again, lol.

If you want to leave so bad, you can eat a penalty. No one is stopping you, so don't harass people about it.

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Originally Posted by Airget

The best way to put it is yes people do fake disconnect but not all disconnects are fake disconnects.

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This. The way people talk about it, you'd think everything every other player does is specifically to spite you. :|
Sure, there may be some fake DC'ers out there, but I highly doubt it is the majority.

There are already tools in place to kick offline players. Trying to claim they deserve an extra level of punishment when you don't even for certain know their circumstances is just antagonisitc.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

That did make me smile - will have to use in a sentence today.

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I agree, this made me laugh. Best line I've seen in a while and I intend to use it also.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Which is why I noted my own experience, and stayed out of the DF until my connection problems were fixed.

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This isn't always so cut and draw. Nvidia currently has an issue with its drivers that causes Directx11 errors constantly yet refuses to acknowledge them. I spent the last month or so with entirely unpredictable disconnects. If there were a penalty in place, I could very well screw my raid group since we can't queue even as a pre-made if someone in the party has a penalty. Under your purposal, I'm either forced to downgrade to Directx9, buy a whole new GPU or cross my fingers and hope I don't disconnect. It's that assumption of guilt that makes such a system wholly unfair just to punish the occasional bad apple.

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Originally Posted by technole

If you want to leave so bad, you can eat a penalty. No one is stopping you, so don't harass people about it.

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This is where SE needs to do a better job allowing GMs to dish out punishment. You wouldn't see people demanding a kick if they knew it was a guaranteed ticket to no DF access for 24 hours. It's only an issue because they don't enforce penalties consistently.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Nvidia currently has an issue with its drivers that causes Directx11 errors constantly yet refuses to acknowledge them.

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So you take your chances and when you get another error in the middle of a party content, everyone's supposed to suffer and accommodate you? My EVG A8800GT had an overheating problem and I had to un-overclock it (it was factory overclock) to play FFXIV stably. If you know you can downgrade to DX9 and get a stable experience, why would you insist on using DX11 and cause disruption in group content?

I'm not strongly promoting adding a disconnect penalty, but I can agree with it. I am also of the opinion that unless the problem is on Square Enix's shoulders, you should first try to solve it or work around it before doing goup content.

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I suppose that's the main difference between the "eastern" way of thinking and "western" way of thinking. If you put "me" upfront, then sure, it's not my fault so you should all accommodate my disconnects. If you put "people" upfront, then you try to avoid causing disruptions. In your eyes I'm being selfish and demand that you degrade your experience, but I'm actually talking from the perspective of someone having the disconnects, i.e., I'm trying to be selfless in upholding everyone else's experience.

I guess I'm in the wrong forum for that.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

So you take your chances and when you get another error in the middle of a party content, everyone's supposed to suffer and accommodate you? My EVG A8800GT had an overheating problem and I had to un-overclock it (it was factory overclock) to play FFXIV stably. If you know you can downgrade to DX9 and get a stable experience, why would you insist on using DX11 and cause disruption in group content?

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Because the disconnect is entirely random and inconsistent. I did numerous stress tests but couldn't know if they worked until the game crashed again, i.e., I had to run Directx11 otherwise how do I know it's solved? Keep in mind, these disconnects only trigger when queuing into DF. So before you say "don't use DF," that isn't an option. When I discovered underclocking solved the issue more or less, I did that. So either I permanently downgrade my experience until Nvidia one day fixes it or I test solutions. Your "suffering" is a meager two minutes or less. I think you'll manage.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

I suppose that's the main difference between the "eastern" way of thinking and "western" way of thinking. If you put "me" upfront, then sure, it's not my fault so you should all accommodate my disconnects. If you put "people" upfront, then you try to avoid causing disruptions. In your eyes I'm being selfish and demand that you degrade your experience, but I'm actually talking from the perspective of someone having the disconnects, i.e., I'm trying to be selfless in upholding everyone else's experience.

I guess I'm in the wrong forum for that.

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Knock off the woe is me nonsense. Your stance isn't selfless. You "can agree with" a system that punishes players who have occasional disconnects through no fault of their own because your experience was temporarily interrupted for two minutes. Furthermore, this idea is rooted entirely on the premise of people willfully disconnecting to escape dungeons they dislike or to dodge the penalty. It's design is inherently to presume guilt wholesale because you may meet a jerk sometimes. Vastly more people will be inconvenienced by such a system than those punished who aren't likely to care about a 30 minute penalty anyway. And this doesn't even begin to factor how American ISPs work. Many places are devoid of choice. You're locked to Comcast or Verzion. If they're having difficulties, your stance means people have to stay out of DF for days, possibly forcing their raid groups to find a sub because a random disconnect means they are locked out of DF.

All because you don't want to be inconvenienced.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

I suppose that's the main difference between the "eastern" way of thinking and "western" way of thinking. If you put "me" upfront, then sure, it's not my fault so you should all accommodate my disconnects. If you put "people" upfront, then you try to avoid causing disruptions. In your eyes I'm being selfish and demand that you degrade your experience, but I'm actually talking from the perspective of someone having the disconnects, i.e., I'm trying to be selfless in upholding everyone else's experience.

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If someone was trying to be "selfless" and really cared about "people" and not themselves they probably wouldn't generalize and insult whole cultures just to try to prove a point in a video game forum.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

So you take your chances and when you get another error in the middle of a party content, everyone's supposed to suffer and accommodate you?

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So they should for an unknown time stop playing a big part of the game because they could get an error and disconnect? People can always have days that went by without a single disconnect and then they can have one where everything is fine and suddenly they might have one. If its a normal DC then they should be back really fast and it should not be too much for the people to wait a bit. Punishing a probably way more bigger part of the community for their unwanted Disconnect just because some people are horrible and fake theirs is a really bad idea.

I had a mentor dps dced at the beginning of dunge after saying 'hello'. Why? I queued for levelling got Doma castle I wrote as a healer that I don't do Stormblood content that often but I will do my best. We cleared stuff until 1st boss before we could kick the dc'ed mentor. Got new rdm. The run went without a hitch even with undergeared bard. It felt bad tho.

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Originally Posted by sakkito

I had a mentor dps dced at the beginning of dunge after saying 'hello'. Why? I queued for levelling got Doma castle I wrote as a healer that I don't do Stormblood content that often but I will do my best. We cleared stuff until 1st boss before we could kick the dc'ed mentor. Got new rdm. The run went without a hitch even with undergeared bard. It felt bad tho.

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I really dislike people that disconnect at the very beginning of a dungeon just because they dont like it or because people are new. Why do they even go into roulette if they dont take anything that is in there? Or at least they could take their punishment and not further punish all the others. I mean I could understand it, if its not doable because the people are just too bad but then one can simply still take the disconnect. I really dont find those people really mature..

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I really dont find those people really mature..

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To be fair in sakkito's case you can't actually tell if the person did it on purpose. You guys are just assuming they did it on purpose, they might not have. I've had my power go out just as I was loading into a DF and I've also lost my internet connection to my ISP before as well at really bad times. I've also been d/c while loading into some DF's lately, but sometimes I get back in on time before I get kicked while others I've been kicked before I could get back in.

I mean you can call it suspicious, but without proof you cannot claim it was intentional.

I can acknowledge that a player's connection can fail due to an outage in the area. What gets me heated are people--more often than not endgamers who think they're too "pro" for anything that isn't a hardcore raid--who take advantage of this fact to do scummy things such as pull the plug on the their cable modems, close the app, or other such acts because they find themselves in a dungeon they don't like or someone in the party is new. These people are the types who enjoy making the game less enjoyable for others.

D/Cs can be unpredictable too, like during the SB launch I probably d/c'd into dungeons as a healer like 30% of the time because of the server issues. I happened to be queued with an FC tank so they can tell the party that i'll be back in when the server lets me. Like maybe if your connection is already flakey going into an instance is the straw the breaks the camel's back.

A funny one is every time the BLM in my raid somehow falls off the arena in O4S, half the time he'll get zapped out of the void and D/C. So if we have to wipe, they won't ever jump off. It hasn't been a burden because we have cleared it for awhile. I'm not sure why it can be that harsh to their connection.

I can only remember doing this twice off the top of my head in my 4 years of playing. It has to be really, really bad for me to just shut off the game and walk away. I avoid leaving 99% of the time unless it's clearly getting nowhere. Eating the penalty is preferable to bashing one's head against a brick wall for almost an hour. That 30min will give you time to cool down.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I mean you can call it suspicious, but without proof you cannot claim it was intentional.

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Its true that we dont know if they did it on purpose or not but my post was more about those that truly do it for a fast way out. It could be that the player was not one of them or they might be. I also know that DCs can come at the worst times but if someone disconnects right at the very beginning of a dungeon and exactly after the poster said that they are not that experienced its really suspicious. On top of that they were not even back when they were at the first boss so that its quite a long time too. Yes cases like yours can happen too but imo this sort of combination really feels like a fake DC and if they did that, they are immature in my view.

This year my ADSL very unstable. Some days drop a lot. I imagine some people can think about being fake dc, but I never did that >.< And generally appear error 3102 after dc, then takes a time to I come back.
Anyway, lately playing more as bard than healer because is more easy party catch other dps after kicked me.

Faking wuuuut?...well i know one thing i can fake at late free times :P

But serious about faking dc in dungeons..oki in the world open when things gotten too much, but then its also my own fault for drive alot attentions at same time because i luuuuuv it and sometimes it gets too much at once but at least NO one gets hurts, we all ppl and i want to respect this even if i can be a bitch and say fukk off now im leaving and then we all leave happily ever after, what important is we all return to see each others again and we all wanna remember a good game and much laughter and not be a scumlord :D

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I can acknowledge that a player's connection can fail due to an outage in the area. What gets me heated are people--more often than not endgamers who think they're too "pro" for anything that isn't a hardcore raid--who take advantage of this fact to do scummy things such as pull the plug on the their cable modems, close the app, or other such acts because they find themselves in a dungeon they don't like or someone in the party is new. These people are the types who enjoy making the game less enjoyable for others.

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That sound more like the leeching rage kid mentality than raiders. If you're part of a static that don't rely on other people guides then you're used to wipe until you've got the hard encounters of the game figured out. At that point you don't really care what dungeon you get from a daily or what kind of players are with you. It'll take roughly the same amount of time anyway and won't be difficult to clear.
Most of the time people that brag the most about being "elite" are really not part of it, they just try to look the part.