SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

I've found the leves and crafting much more acceptable than HW's and people still complain.

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Maybe because there's no real reason why a specific DotH class should have a lower item production per hour than any other because of the way ressources are gathered. Especially when ressources are limited in regards to the number of people who can farm them.

And it's not because you didn't need some HQ mats that it's the case for everyone.

Get off your high horse.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Maybe because there's no real reason why a specific DotH class should have a lower item production per hour than any other because of the way ressources are gathered. Especially when ressources are limited in regards to the number of people who can farm them.

And it's not because you didn't need some HQ mats that it's the case for everyone.

Get off your high horse.

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What high horse? Have you read the guides out there? You don't to be super melded this time to level up. Even better certain rotations don't really need HQ mats.

Maybe instead of being rude and snide you would spend the time looking at those guides and realizing I am right. You can now meld most gear without needing carbonized matter and using collectibles will net you materia fast.

This is a far easier grind than the HW ones and a majority of the turn in are reasonable.

Also I don't get why "there's no real reason" There is a very good reason, go back and read the thread.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

Mind sharing your routes/spots for mob farming? I may try some good old mob grinding out of pure desperation for Gagana and Tiger skins to level up my poor LTW.

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Halgai are all clustered around the north side of The Dawn Throne. Easy to find.
Manzasiri are on the far western edge of Azim. Same deal.
Baras just north of the manzas drop much better than the Yanxia tigers.
For gags, I just ran around Fringes killing lessers. Faster kills than the higher level ones, and there are more of them.

You definitely don't need to rely on retainers for farming raw LTW and WVR materials (although they help).
Good hunting!

Edit: I just did 77 gazelle skins in an hour, which isn't too bad. No drop rate buff is required.

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Originally Posted by ChloeGrace

Halgai are all clustered around the north side of The Dawn Throne. Easy to find.
Manzasiri are on the far western edge of Azim. Same deal.
Baras just north of the manzas drop much better than the Yanxia tigers.
For gags, I just ran around Fringes killing lessers. Faster kills than the higher level ones, and there are more of them.

You definitely don't need to rely on retainers for farming raw LTW and WVR materials (although they help).
Good hunting!

Edit: I just did 77 gazelle skins in an hour, which isn't too bad. No drop rate buff is required.

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This is good to hear. They definitely buffed the drop rate, if that's how many you are getting.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

What high horse? Have you read the guides out there? You don't to be super melded this time to level up. Even better certain rotations don't really need HQ mats.

Maybe instead of being rude and snide you would spend the time looking at those guides and realizing I am right. You can now meld most gear without needing carbonized matter and using collectibles will net you materia fast.

This is a far easier grind than the HW ones and a majority of the turn in are reasonable.

Also I don't get why "there's no real reason" There is a very good reason, go back and read the thread.

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"It's easier than HW" is not an argument to say that it's good. It you put some whipped cream on dog poop and eat it, sure it's better than normal dog poop, but at the end of the day you're still eating dog poop.
At most, you can say that it's a step in the right direction. But stopping there and calling it good enough is... stupid.

So, again, there's no valid reason why this particular DotH class has a harder time dealing with materials than any other.
The only thing that would justify it is that you don't need a DotL class. But you still need a DoW, and you are extremely dependant on the current gear iLv of combat jobs, and have to fight other players for farm routes. And DoW jobs have no control over HQ, yield and all the things that make DotL good. These disadvantages by far outbalance the unnecessity of a DotL. Heck, you still need some stuff from DotL anyway to make your leather. So even that argument doesn't hold. At least the DotL materials are cheap and you often only need one, but yeah...

And for the high horse thing, you really sounded like "I did it, it was easy, y'all suck, stop complaining". Hence my comment.

It is easy. Meanwhile while you spend your time complaining I have seen people fairly new to crafting get to 70. Guess it is too hard. *shrugs*

They made crafting and gathering work together as well as adventures still needing to make money able to get items.

The drop rates are fine. The only concern I have was the mane and hair, but other than that everything else felt fine.

Anyone can get level 70 crafter if they just buy leve kits >.>

I blew through all my leves leveling the gatherers. HOWEVER, most of the mob drops can be desynth'd from Kugane items if you have LTW desynth, I got Goldsmith to 70 in one day by buying a bunch of the accessories and desynthing them to get HQ ingots (which at the time we're completely RNG this was like...day 2 of early access), if you're willing to invest in it, could be worth it.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

Anyone can get level 70 crafter if they just buy leve kits >.>

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They won't get all the skills though of they don't know how to craft. They made the Stormblood job quests where you have to craft the item (in the Class Quest recipe) and turn it in.

With that said. I was using Mango7 Rolls guide on leves and used a guide for the CP indebted

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...w_cp_crafters/

None of these stats are hard to get to and friends that were lower geared than me surpassed me in getting their crafters. They used the time instead of spamming Raubahn Ex to get mats for future crafts.

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Originally Posted by Eskuire

I blew through all my leves leveling the gatherers. HOWEVER, most of the mob drops can be desynth'd from Kugane items if you have LTW desynth, I got Goldsmith to 70 in one day by buying a bunch of the accessories and desynthing them to get HQ ingots (which at the time we're completely RNG this was like...day 2 of early access), if you're willing to invest in it, could be worth it.

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This! I have gotten almost all the leather and dawn serge i need through desynth, it was very fast to level up to max and i already have ltw desynth at 320. Its really easy to level up even from scratch if you start now, but it wont be too profitable/money saver now. In the beginning of Stormblood Gazelle Leather was 250k on my server and you could by gazelleskin belt of gathering for 16k at a vendor which yielded about 30-35 leathers per 50 belt in my experience. Just start desynthing if you dont have them leveled!

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

They used the time instead of spamming Raubahn Ex to get mats for future crafts.

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How could they get materials for future crafts if they couldn't progress past the first few quests in SB MSQ?

Or am I reading this wrong?

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

How could they get materials for future crafts if they couldn't progress past the first few quests in SB MSQ?

Or am I reading this wrong?

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I saw a lot of people hit gathering and crafting to 70 because of collectibles. Since Gagana leather is a leve and early craft, many people instead of spamming Rauhban grabbed a ton of skins and the Alumen during that time and ground out leatherworker. Since you couldn't access the new leves, they simply accumulated and were able to spam a low level leve when it finally became available to get to 70 for LTW.

Many of the early mats they could gather turned out to be a benefit once they could reach Kugane and spam the leve. You can level up CRP for example with just "Beech Please" if you had enough leves.

A lot of 61 and higher collectibles never ask for mats higher than that level to make them. So that couldn't pass Raubahn just hung around the Reach and gathered. I did the same after getting frustrated during early access and grabbed the new collectibles for turn in: the branches and triphane. It was pretty good stuff, even if the stretch got longer because we couldn't get to new zones.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Yhd-yEa7dPj2WY9X3t02w0P3WeDydVRCWWzQiBoifuA/htmlview?sle=true#

Here you can see the list of leves and some collectibles. You don't get leves where crafting items are higher than the level you're crafting and will generally be accessible anywhere. Same with collectibles. So like an X belt of Striking that is level 61 won't have a 67 ingredient in it.

I get that LTW are costly to level (WVR is not, it has more then enough items with inputs from land jobs only, and ALC you can do Persimmon Tannin at 66, or the teas which one require one WAR drop). That is why I "slow" level it, with the focus on GC turns, then only leves much later.

Personally, I think the high cost of WAR drops is a good thing. It is one of the few times you have largest Gil movement going from Crafters to WAR players only, and not just the normal slow burn of Crafters to Gathers. With Crafters just building stacks.

Personal experience is that it got me into Gathering and Crafting. At the lunch of HW my WAR retainer made me the few millions to gear up my miner for the first time, which lead me to level BTN, which lead to income to level crafters, etc.

At the end of the day, Gil moving through the economy is a good thing, without it happening who would buy your items at a 500% mark up?

(Also cost to make anything that is not a turn-in, be in GC, leves, or script, is pretty pointless, as the cost will just be passed on to the end consumer)

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

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I'm not sure if you miss the point on purpose because you can't answer to it or if you genuinely don't understand what I'm saying.

I'll try one last time.

It's not about how easy or hard it is. It's about how does it compare to the other classes, and how theses classes can have their material supplied, and at what rate. And also how much material is needed for the recipes.
Currently, LTW falls behind in every category. Getting materials is slower, it's limited per people farming, the HQ rate is way lower, and the quantity needed doesn't change much from other classes.

That's all I'm saying. I don't care how easy or hard it is. But I do care about imbalance between classes.

i don't think there is an issue with this it's a matter of what is your priority to save gil and lvl up you farm these it takes time or you can just buy them off the mb and pay for someone's time ppl that farm or gather these also lose time while you do other things like lvl up help friend and so on its really up to you what your goals are i have farmed up to 3 stacks of these skins while i did lvl up so some ppl want to save time while others want to save gil you choose but key rule TIME IS MONEY or GIL in this case

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Originally Posted by Fyce

I'm not sure if you miss the point on purpose because you can't answer to it or if you genuinely don't understand what I'm saying.

I'll try one last time.

It's not about how easy or hard it is. It's about how does it compare to the other classes, and how theses classes can have their material supplied, and at what rate. And also how much material is needed for the recipes.
Currently, LTW falls behind in every category. Getting materials is slower, it's limited per people farming, the HQ rate is way lower, and the quantity needed doesn't change much from other classes.

That's all I'm saying. I don't care how easy or hard it is. But I do care about imbalance between classes.

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Except it isn't imbalanced? It's also based on which class tends to garner more profit.

Clothes are needed most because more players glamour, or need gear to level up, vs people needing infusions or food. It's not that food or infusions aren't useful, but only a percentage of the population is going to need it. This means the obvious choice would mean leveling up that LTW or weaver because of the potential money, but it shouldn't be a faceroll to level up. The difficulty is just right.

They are fine where they are at. As I said the only concern was the mane and hair, but even that wasn't terrible.

The mats aren't exceptionally difficult.

You want to do leves alone, you're looking at 48-49 leves to get to 70 Less than other leves of other classes (some are averaging 50-52) if you do the cheap route. Which is spamming the leves with the Tiger Skin once you are able to reach it. Crafting the skins into the leather nets you even more XP if you're working to make them HQ, ON TOP OF using Commercial Engineering manuals since you can get those cheap with red scrips. Speaking of Red scrips...

You got collectibles too which a lot aren't asking for the stupid dissolvents to be added to the gear recipe now.

So..
http://i.imgur.com/IsE6ipO.png
Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...view?sle=true#

Tiger Leather takes 3 skins which are an easy farm from Azim Steppes if you kill Baras, and also rather easy if you kill the Yanxia tigers sitting at the front entrance that leads you to the Ruby Sea. I advise against Rainbow Tigers....

The Alumen is also easy, in fact the market has crashed on my server because most people were leveling up during Raubahn EX that there's a rather huge glut of them (and they're really a 60 gather).

Gagana Belt of Scouting to level 62 = 63 Gagana skins, and 21 Titanium Nuggets (you can buy the nuggets with the Gnath beast Tribe).
So doing the Tiger Leather Leves, = 306 skins, and 102 Alumens. How unfair....????

Seems LTW has it made honestly if you're doing the grind to 70. If you're doing it a weird way and trying to make everything in your log, then maybe there's a problem...?

Tiger Leather takes 3 skins which are an easy farm from Azim Steppes if you kill Baras, and also rather easy if you kill the Yanxia tigers sitting at the front entrance that leads you to the Ruby Sea. I advise against Rainbow Tigers....

The Alumen is also easy, in fact the market has crashed on my server because most people were leveling up during Raubahn EX that there's a rather huge glut of them (and they're really a 60 gather).

Seems LTW has it made honestly if you're doing the grind to 70. If you're doing it a weird way and trying to make everything in your log, then maybe there's a problem...?[/QUOTE]

Exactly folks are just lazy to farm these its just so simple that is what i did farm every single skin with no issue ppl just don't want to use up the time they have to do this so solution is pay up for it or farm it .:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Except it isn't imbalanced?

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So you're basically saying that it takes the same amount of time to gather enough materials to make leather and, say, 4 logs for a lumber?
Or that 3 Gagana skins cost the same as 4 Beech Lumber?
Or that gathering 3 skins is as difficult as getting 4 lumbers?
Or that someone who needs some HQ mats to make some HQ products will get the same amount of HQ skins that a botanist would get HQ lumber?
Or that the availability of the gathering spot is equal and that gathering skins is like gathering rocks or plants in the way that it's not impacted by the number of people farming?

(I took CRP as an example because it's the most obvious, but this applies to a lot of other classes.)

Sorry, but I can't argue any further. That's the third time you either completly missed my point or ignored my arguments, even if they are completly valid facts (see all of the above showing that yes, a lot of stuff regarding gathering monster's materials is imbalanced compared to BTN and MIN can do for other crafter classes). You haven't answered to any of these and keep saying "It's easy! It's easy!" even if that's absolutly not the point.

At least, you were right regarding one thing: I'm wasting my time here.

well sry if you cant hq nq mats you might have to look in to your crafter rotation and possibly gear and melds i hit hq and all nq skins i even sold some on the mb and made gil even on carpenter hq nq logs and and well obviously you'r battle class has no ability to increase the amount of hq skins you get that is just silly cant compare that since miner and botanist have ability to get you hq or 3 times the amount of logs in 1 hit your hq leather is based of your skill as a crafter to hq those mats................

You may not like it, but it's 100% intentional to throttle some base mats but make an infinite supply of intermediate mats at a fixed npc price through desynth.

I am actually quite impressed at how well SE manages the economy in general.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

So you're basically saying that it takes the same amount of time to gather enough materials to make leather and, say, 4 logs for a lumber?
At least, you were right regarding one thing: I'm wasting my time here.

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Actually yes, I killed one mob within seconds and got 3 skins. That's about the same as a 80% chance gathering from a tree. Keep in mind the hit rate on a btn/min node if not properly geared is not 100%. The only difference is that maybe a person is smart about their GP to get better yields from a node. There's usually more mats for GSM/ARM/CUL and ones that depend on more gathering classes. Oh yes some may yield more like 3 per item, but to kill that argument, they want ALL 3 in each turn in. So, pls.

It's funny you left out FSH who gets more RNG than the other two... XD Poor CUL.

Ok so I looked up your character on the lodestone. I see you went with the scrip gear (red scrip) at least before you decided to upgrade.
If everything was 200 Augmented gear like this http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/11C0R

http://i.imgur.com/Dmks4O6.png


That put you at 943 CRFT, 878 CTRL and 381 CP. That was more than enough to do a rotation that was for the CP poor if you ate the Tempura Plate from the vendor in Kugane.

I posted a link to a rotation earlier that you clearly ignored when trying to cherry pick about the mat consumption (which I answered several times to the reason why some crafters may need a mat that seems "unbalanced" compared to another class). I mean you complained about needing HQ and I said it's absolutely not necessary.

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So my stats are:
Craftmanship 817 | Control 770 | CP 381 unbuffed, 424 CP with Food “Tempura Platter” (Kugane vendor)
It is very easy to get to 381CP

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Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...w_cp_crafters/

The only rub was getting to level 61 to do the rotation. That was easily done by doing a Grand Company daily turn in and grinding the base mat needed for leves. Get a commercial engineering manual and you got XP doing that as well. You obviously had the red scrips to get your gear.

It's as if as a crafter you can't even do the basic math, you find out how much progress you make at your level and figure out a rotation. It seems you couldn't do that and when I find a guide that actually gives you info, (in fact multiple) excuses are still made. Then you tell me I don't listen? I don't even think that's a fair argument. I'm giving info to resources to HELP.

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

... in fact Leatherworker, Alchemist, Weaver, basically any recipe with a mob drop in it.
It is completely ridiculous that we are still in this situation with some of these drops. Limited spawn locations, low-ish drop rates and not dropping enough mats for recipes that are BASIC levelling recipes.

What baffles me even more is that during ARR 2.00 we had this same issue with Fleece and they added MORE spawn points and INCREASED the drop amounts of items so they knew things like this were an issue. Then came HW and they seemed to have forgotten all about it and now it continues.

This was also an issue for things like Dissolvents in HW which were a pain in the ass too, requiring 4 Deep Eye each which would not be such an issue if SO many of the recipes required them. It just becomes a huge time sink.

I hear that Weaver has it bad at the moment at 60 with many items needed dropped items again.

Now i'm not saying this is an issue with ALL mob dropped recipes, i'm fine with having to put some work in, but for BASIC stuff this should really not still be an issue. And it's such a shame because there are so many GREAT changes in the crafting system at the moment that my passion has been reinvigorated.

So please SE, take a look at these mob drop rates and increase them like you did in 2.00

EDIT: About retainers.

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I was thinking about making a post on this very issue. You forgot about Diremite Web though, and it shocks me they keep repeating this mistake. Because of this, anything with Worsted Yarn/Dawn Serge ended up(ends up? I haven't looked at the prices in the last few days on my server) not worth crafting, even as something to sell, you have higher profit margins selling things that do not take those materials. It is so bad to buy the gear dirt cheap for the GC/leve turn ins that require gear with those mats from people mass selling them as MSQ quest rewards vs crafting them. The cloth for about a month or so was 65k, if you where even interested making something with one of those cloths, you where better off just making the cloths and selling those, then bothering making the gear.

Yeah for 2.0 my retainers were on full time farm for Deepeye Tears and Chimera Hair and the leathers. With x4 battle retainers, I could get 40 items an hour.

Issue is I've only got one battle retainer at 70, and the other three are 60s on classes that..... I switched from being primaries at 60 because I didn't like them as much as alternates XD So while I'm a BRD DRK SMN SCH as my primaries, my retainers are unfortunately BRD WAR WHM BLM. I planned to get those to 70 eventually, but they took a backseat to the classes I enjoyed at 60 first. I'll probably dig into WHM BLM and WAR next purely for retainer purposes. Who knows, maybe I'll like them better at 70 than I did at 60...

But in the meantime, farming materials for Dawn Serge is absolutely horrible. I spent 45 minutes killing mobs with my chocobo the other day. It was a bit better last night, only 25 minutes for the 60 drops needed for a single piece of gear...

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Originally Posted by Catwho

But in the meantime, farming materials for Dawn Serge is absolutely horrible. I spent 45 minutes killing mobs with my chocobo the other day. It was a bit better last night, only 25 minutes for the 60 drops needed for a single piece of gear...

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It's also psychologically irritating. From an immersion perspective, the manzasiri is a large animal/mob. To have something that big not able to cultivate its hair is rather ridiculous. (Right next to Spear Fishing ;) I mean I get why regular fishing is RNG, but really...we're wandering around stabbing blindly with a spear? )

Leathers aren't as bad because it's only Skin --> Leather
Worsted Yarn and Dawn Surge (Steppe Surge) is because it's 2 Mob Drops that you need multiples of ---> Yarn then 3 Yarn ----> Cloth
That's why I had said before the other thread started, that it needed to be its own topic because the LTW rates weren't that bad, the mane was.

<Sigh> As if 4.0 didn't dumb down the game enough.

Don't complain that your hunter retainers aren't a class you've leveled yet, that's just poor planning. I had one of four like that (an archer, I main WHM with a side of WAR now), so I reset him to Fisher and re-leveled him.

And after putting L310 scrip gear on my retainers, I'm awash in skins, manes and hairs. And still have four stacks of ventures, the amount of GC seals you get from dungeon drops is insane.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

<Sigh> As if 4.0 didn't dumb down the game enough.

Don't complain that your hunter retainers aren't a class you've leveled yet, that's just poor planning. I had one of four like that (an archer, I main WHM with a side of WAR now), so I reset him to Fisher and re-leveled him.

And after putting L310 scrip gear on my retainers, I'm awash in skins, manes and hairs. And still have four stacks of ventures, the amount of GC seals you get from dungeon drops is insane.

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I've got 8 retainers. XD The gatherers are all 70 now. yeah, poor planning (more like a straight up oversight) on my part - but I've got 1 battle retainer at 70, and if someone only has 2 retainers total, they're in an even worst situation than I am. I'll get em to 70 once I get myself to 70 on those classes, so no big deal.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

<Sigh> As if 4.0 didn't dumb down the game enough.

Don't complain that your hunter retainers aren't a class you've leveled yet, that's just poor planning. I had one of four like that (an archer, I main WHM with a side of WAR now), so I reset him to Fisher and re-leveled him.

And after putting L310 scrip gear on my retainers, I'm awash in skins, manes and hairs. And still have four stacks of ventures, the amount of GC seals you get from dungeon drops is insane.

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Because going out and killing monsters or waiting hours on retainers requires so much thought? The dumbed down rebuttal doesn't work in this scenario because hunting requires you not actively be crafting nor does it make the process easier. Bumping up the numbers simply makes getting mats less tedious.

Considering many consider paying for extra retainers as a pay to win, I don't ever try to make arguments that involve more than the free retainers. Especially if you have multiple of the same kind.

I try to look at it from the perspective of having 2 leveled.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Because going out and killing monsters or waiting hours on retainers requires so much thought? The dumbed down rebuttal doesn't work in this scenario because hunting requires you not actively be crafting.

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I don't wait on my retainers. I'm smart enough to anticipate what I'll need and send them out to get it before I need it.
But you don't? You wait until you need something and then send a retainer out for it?

In that case, I suggest you get rid of the wait by buying the thing you sent your retainer out off the market board and then recouping the gil by selling what the retainer brings back. No waiting required, even if you can't plan ahead.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

I don't wait on my retainers. I'm smart enough to anticipate what I'll need and send them out to get it before I need it.
But you don't? You wait until you need something and then send a retainer out for it?

In that case, I suggest you get rid of the wait by buying the thing you sent your retainer out off the market board and then recouping the gil by selling what the retainer brings back. No waiting required, even if you can't plan ahead.

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Your post implied a reduction in mat component would somehow equate to dumbing down crafting. Planning ahead doesn't change the two methods for getting mats have nothing to do with crafting, thus a reduction wouldn't be "dumbing it down." You'd simply be less dependent on your retainer or farming.

Nice try though.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Your post implied a reduction in mat component would somehow equate to dumbing down crafting. Planning ahead doesn't change the two methods for getting mats have nothing to do with crafting, thus a reduction wouldn't be "dumbing it down." You'd simply be less dependent on your retainer or farming.

Nice try though.

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Don't blame me, you're the one that brought up the issue of time-to-get-mats, by posting:

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Because going out and killing monsters or waiting hours on retainers requires so much thought? The dumbed down rebuttal doesn't work in this scenario ...

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It is dumb to not plan ahead, and dumb to not realize you can "borrow" mats from the marketboard.
Yet you seem to think these two options aren't available.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Don't blame me, you're the one that brought up the issue of time-to-get-mats, by posting:



It is dumb to not plan ahead, and dumb to not realize you can "borrow" mats from the marketboard.
Yet you seem to think these two options aren't available.

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1. Not everyone has more than 2 retainers, please stop ignoring that point because it does make a difference.
2. "Borrow" is beyond operative due to market fluctuation and how many one can afford to buy at a time.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

1. Not everyone has more than 2 retainers, please stop ignoring that point because it does make a difference.
2. "Borrow" is beyond operative due to market fluctuation and how many one can afford to buy at a time.

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1) Everyone has two, and if your concern is Leatherworker, they can both be hunters. And that's enough. I have three hunters, and they keep me well stocked in fleece, furs, hides, and meat.

2) It's always a handicap to not have gil, but anyone who made it to L70 without accumulating gil has only themselves to blame.

The drop rate is horrible. In my experience, my retainers can get more in an hour than I can (admittedly I gave up farming mobs fairly quickly due to the low return). That's giving a huge advantage to those who have paid retainers, or those of us who can log in several times a day to send our retainers out. A buff would be most welcome.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

The drop rate is horrible. In my experience, my retainers can get more in an hour than I can (admittedly I gave up farming mobs fairly quickly due to the low return. That's giving a huge advantage to those who have paid retainers, or those of us who can log in several times a day to send our retainers out. A buff would be most welcome.

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I'm waiting for the other poster to come back and somehow make it your fault that you don't play the game enough. Seriously though, some people forget that not everyone can spend vast amount of time on the game so what seems like a "simple" solution is not so because others can only play a certain amount of time.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Seriously though, some people forget that not everyone can spend vast amount of time on the game so what seems like a "simple" solution is not so because others can only play a certain amount of time.

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People who don't spend much time on FFXIV (or any MMO) won't be competitive with those who do.
That's fundamental element of RPG design, and FFXIV is a MMO RPG.

So if you want a game where the people who play an hour a day can do everything the people who live the game do, and just as well, look for another genre. This game isn't and shouldn't be like that. If it were, if the game were dumbed down that much, the people who spend 15+ hours a week on the game would get bored by the lack of challenge and go elsewhere ... and that's already a bit of a problem.

Yup, right on schedule. Predictable argument too. It's a shame really. I thought they'd have something outside the usual platitude and "talking points".

Especially since Yoshi P stated he wanted to make this easier for people to not have to stress and log in every day.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Yup, right on schedule. Predictable argument too. It's a shame really. I thought they'd have something outside the usual platitude and "talking points".

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Ah, a logic-free personal attack. Tsk tsk tsk.

Public Service Announcement:
Personal vendettas and ad-hominem arguments aren't looked on kindly by the forum administrators.
The ban hammer drops a lot more readily than some people think, if Reddit FFXIV posters are to be believed.

So if a person finds that they can't make a post without attacking or harassing another forum participants, perhaps that person should choose not to post, before Square makes that choice for them.

And remember, a person can edit their posts later if they got carried away in by the heat of the moment. If a person is fast enough, they might be able to erase their faux pas before someone hits the "report" button down there at the bottom left of their post.

Not this time, though.

Not at all. There is no personal attack, just that the responses are predictable.

Most, if not all your replies read from the same scripts and platitudes people tend to jump to instead of going back and reading Yoshi's interviews and therefore applying the logic of the direction he's taking. He wants the feedback, as long as you don't make personal attacks at the devs, he welcomes it. He's stated he doesn't want players to feel overwhelmed and constantly trying to play catch up.

So the game has to be looked at the perspective of the average player who will not always buy extra retainers. - That means most if not all of your arguments otherwise are pretty null and void. No one is going to buy retainers if they stop playing. This is not what Yoshi wants, he wants subscriptions over retainers. Retainers are a cost for the maintenance on space, meaning they are paying back into the resource they're given.


So with that in mind, are the drop rates fair? For the most part I'd say yes, but not the mane and hair due to a couple of problems

1. It is a "double mat" Meaning it needs to be crafted at one level and then multiples of that same level need to be crafted again to make the next product.

2. Where Halgai and Manzasiri hair become problematic is from the fact that one type of mob drops these. This is unlike a lot of the skins, where for example Tiger skin drops from 3 different level mobs, Gagana drop from 2 types.

Perhaps hopefully like they did with HW they'll have a vendor that sells them at a certain price or a Beast Tribe that later sells it, but right now Dawn Surge/Steppe Surge is probably the biggest issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

So the game has to be looked at the perspective of the average player who will not always buy extra retainers. - That means most if not all of your arguments otherwise are pretty null and void.

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Nonsense. As I posted, two hunting retainers are enough - I have three, and they bring in mats faster than I use them. And everyone gets two for free.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

So with that in mind, are the drop rates fair? For the most part I'd say yes, but not the mane and hair due to a couple of problems

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Fairness, in a video game? Are you kidding? The concept doesn't even apply. Everyone plays by the same rule. What, are you envious of Blacksmiths? Then be a Blacksmith. No one is forcing you to be a Leatherworker (or Weaver).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

1. It is a "double mat" Meaning it needs to be crafted at one level and then multiples of that same level need to be crafted again to make the next product.

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What, like ingots? Like most Weaver mats?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

2. Where Halgai and Manzasiri hair become problematic ...

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Isn't for Leatherworkers, the topic of this thread, since they are Weaver mats. And Weavers get easy-to-get Twincoons as a top-level mat, so they have no reason to complain. Besides, you want to talk about mat availablilty, let's talk Culinarian seafood, shall we? Checked the market prices on that lately?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Perhaps hopefully like they did with HW they'll have a vendor that sells them at a certain price or a Beast Tribe that later sells it, but right now Dawn Surge/Steppe Surge is probably the biggest issue.

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Except it isn't. iL320 combat gear isn't based on it. It's an intermediate material currently only good for DoH and DoL, that will become just as irrelevant as Chimerical Felt (remember how hard that was to get, if you didn't have retainers?) once the next level of DoH/DoL gear is made available.

So: Please forward to whatever the iL320 DoH/DoL gear requires being even harder to get.
Yoshida-san understands that top-end crafting should be a challenge, just like top-end raiding, and that includes getting the mats for it.