From one tank to other tanks..STR Gear is not a thing anymore..Get used to it now!

My healthbar moves down slower than most VIT tanks I've had the unfortunate displeasure of running with in any of the 8 man content. If they're freaking out that the actual # attached to the slower-dropping healthbar is lower then that's their issue and only theirs. They'll have a harder time healing a VIT tank of average skill level than they will healing me any day.

Usually tank who use vit accessory are the one who don't use cool down on tank buster because they think they can just take it without any danger

But when a str tank in play they need to use cd and and make a perfect play or they are dead


Usually tank who play like this has a higher skill level in both mitigation and dps

I use fending accessories on trash packs and slaying on bosses in dungeons and I've yet to die to lack of health on bosses.

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Originally Posted by Aeui

I use fending accessories on trash packs and slaying on bosses in dungeons and I've yet to die to lack of health on bosses.

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Ah but you see, tanks like you and me who swap accessories situationally don't exist, or so the soap-boxing healers keep telling me ;)

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

Ah but you see, tanks like you and me who swap accessories situationally don't exist, or so the soap-boxing healers keep telling me ;)

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Tanks who wear str accessory to do double trash pull are crazy even I don't dare to do such a thing

On vit I barely survive with all the cd with a average healer on DR

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

To put it simply, you take the same damage with 10k or 100k HP. If you can survive a hit with 10k HP, why would you need 100k HP for it, especially if it significally lowers your damage? Extra HP in this case is wasted, but extra party damage is always useful.

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This is a dangerous line of thought. Instead of thinking of health as raw numbers, instead think of it as a percentage. The difference between a boss dealing 90-110% of a tank's HP and 70-90% of a tank's HP is literally the difference of hours of practice time.

If they lock us out of the 270 STR accessories I'll stop using them and won't complain about it.

Until then, I don't understand why we're gonna chastise people for running BiS gear, because that's what it is. It's indisputable that the HP and cool downs you have make it possible to survive anything the game is gonna throw at you.

It's not a "but muhdeeps" thing, it's just the way the game is designed. I think the way that tanks are built right now is an oversight. I don't think just locking tanks out of the STR gear is the "best" solution, and I don't understand the fundamental argument of why damage can't scale off VIT. But whatever changes they make I'll adjust accordingly and rock the new BiS, whatever that ends up being.

1. This whole argument that "That doing more damage grants more enmity" is utter garbage and BS now! In just this last patch as I stated in the very beginning of my post you literally generate the same amount of hate you did with VIT accessories now when compared with STR. So this argument is beyond done.

2. What are you going to do when patch 3.05 comes out in the next few weeks when SE is going to lock all STR based Accessories from tanks? NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! GET USED TO IT OR STOP BEING A TANK! SE has made it clear that tanks are made to use VIT gear and there is nothing you STR tanks can do, complain, or shout about it that is going to change that fact! All your doing now is holding on to your useless final fantasy(pun intended) that you wearing STR will change anything SE does from this point forward.


3. In regards to those claiming you need STR to maintain aggro on other MMO's to tank.....I am calling BS on that! I have played WoW(Mained a tank), SWTOR(SAME), and many others to maintain aggro in any form of content unless you were severely out leveled or severely under geared. Those who claim this are utter liars and here is my prove! http://www.wowhead.com/armor/role:5/type:-3:-2:-4 If you look at all the class artifact rings on WoW for every tank role...NONE OF THEM HAVE STRENGTH! NONE! SO STOP LYING! Lets look at SWTOR, another MMO that has a WoW feel to it like FF14! In SWTOR, they consolidated all main stats(not secondary) into Mastery except one...can you guess which one that is? ENDURANCE....SWTOR VERSION OF FF14 VITALITY! http://dulfy.net/2016/12/22/swtor-5-...s-master-list/ Every piece of gear for this MMO's lastest expansion in regards to tanks have Endurance above Mastery while all other classes including healers are the polar opposite.....can you guys why.....o yea....their tanks thats why! So with this blatant lie that other MMOS tanks use STR on their gear for tanking....it is not true!

I do not care what side of this argument you are on....bottom line is that SE will make the final policy...and guess what STR tanks.....its not yours! You will be using Vitality no matter how bad you complain.....because all your issues are nothing more than wishful thinking.....not anything in relation to facts!

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Originally Posted by FreyjaAshe

snip

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The problem is while you think it is BiS healers are seeing you health tank which causes us to have to stop our DPS (which from what i understand is better than yours) which then makes everything take longer killing the point of taking STR gear. As Annah was saying it IS noticeable when a tank is using STR acc and IT DOES slow things down. You can claim the you don't do it to have higher DSP but you should understand that if a healer has to focus all our effort to healing you the party DPS does drop.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

1. This whole argument that "That doing more damage grants more enmity" is utter garbage and BS now! In just this last patch as I stated in the very beginning of my post you literally generate the same amount of hate you did with VIT accessories now when compared with STR. So this argument is beyond done.

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SE needs to be careful what they do If they did a census now Im sure it would show a drop in tanks, your crazy to think people will just continue to play jobs that SE keeps ruining so your solution of stop tanking is a pretty stupid one. There is already enough people scared to play tank as is lets not ruin the jobs for the good ones just because you think tanks should play how you want them to play

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Originally Posted by spf1200

The problem is while you think it is BiS healers are seeing you health tank which causes us to have to stop our DPS (which from what i understand is better than yours) which then makes everything take longer killing the point of taking STR gear. As Annah was saying it IS noticeable when a tank is using STR acc and IT DOES slow things down. You can claim the you don't do it to have higher DSP but you should understand that if a healer has to focus all our effort to healing you the party DPS does drop.

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people keep sayin this but I have never seen healers out dps a tank never seen one parse where a healer out dps a tank so why to people continue to say ths

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

SNIP

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Payton....it has nothing to do with how I want them to play. Every possible bit of evidence clearly shows that tanks are suppose to wear Vitality gear....not STR! They even stated that in patch 3.05 that all STR based accessories are going to be locked out from tanks....so when SE is saying and doing these things....how is that solely my opinion? If people do not want to tank solely because they cannot dps high on charts(this is the main excuse I hear all the time from STR minded tanks) then they truly never wanted to be tanks in the first place. I have not seen anything to me that is a detriment to any of the tank jobs thus far....on the contrary....I love what they did with DRK so far and I am level my WAR having the exact same feelings based on me being a WAR in 2.0 to now.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

If they brought so much STR gear a tank buster took them to 5% then they sacrificed a dangerously large about of VIT and I would slap them myself if I were present <.<

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well, 120vit per right side accessory adds up....a lot

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

SE needs to be careful what they do If they did a census now Im sure it would show a drop in tanks, your crazy to think people will just continue to play jobs that SE keeps ruining so your solution of stop tanking is a pretty stupid one. There is already enough people scared to play tank as is lets not ruin the jobs for the good ones just because you think tanks should play how you want them to play

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the problem is SE cant do proper conten as this problem still being a thing, for good or bad they need to end the STR meta as soon as posible and probably end with tanking in dps stance too to dont get worried about players skyping mechanics in day 1, overgear is a thing yeah but the weight of skyping come fron this tactics.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

I am level my WAR having the exact same feelings based on me being a WAR in 2.0 to now.

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You feel completely irrelevant because the other tanks are better in every way? ;)

THAT was WAR's lot in 2.0

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

From here:



Why do it? Because optimizing DPS is how players have fun, plus DPS is a form of mitigation because you don't have to take as many tankbusters.

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It's how SOME players have fun, and the argument that i bolded is literally grasping for straws. The 100-200 extra dps for a tank to wear str accessories MAY push the boss before 1 tankbuster.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

people keep sayin this but I have never seen healers out dps a tank never seen one parse where a healer out dps a tank so why to people continue to say ths

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Ok I could be wrong on healers doing more DPS. but my point still stands that the small amount of extra damage you do with STR acc isn't going to make up for the DPS lose from healers having to stop and heal you more often.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Payton....it has nothing to do with how I want them to play. Every possible bit of evidence clearly shows that tanks are suppose to wear Vitality gear....not STR! They even stated that in patch 3.05 that all STR based .

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If I had to guess the main people who are using the str pieces are hardcore raiders that are much better than your average tank I first saw that they where being used by xenos. If people are wearing these pieces and still clearing the content what does it matter, raids are for statics which means most of the time your healer would know exactly what type of gear your wearing. Your average dungeon running tank isnt wearing str pieces thats why I said why does it matter most of the tanks wearing this aren't gona be running with randoms in raids so I call bs on SE sayiin they are worried that this will make it hard for healers. Simply because the healers running raids are better than your average healer and would already know what their tanks are wearing.

The issue is SE thinks they can force healers and tanks to do the basic parts of their jobs and they just cant and they really should just let people who play the less common roles play how they want to play. Its bad for business when you push people away from jobs that people barely want to play. They should be listening to tanks and healers on how they want to play instead of trying to force their agenda, their not gona stop tanks from tanking in offensive stance their not gona make healers stop dpsing its a waste of time tryin to force the issue. All people will do is come up with some other way to cheese the system maybe even just kick ot out of content like zurvan ex , they just need to stop and embrace the fact tanks want to feel like they are contributing after all they create content around tank and dps damage as they keep sayng.

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Originally Posted by Annah

I also noticed, tanks who are in actual tank gear, we drop the mobs faster because I am part of the DPS team too. Pop spell length cool down, thin air?, and spam the hell out of holy...a whm can out dps any tank with STR any day. We can wipe the board with the two other dps when a tank is a tank. (and the most health the tank will ever lose with me during this entire process is probably 25-30% MAX).

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The hidden calculation that the defenders of wearing i270 STR gear don't seem to ever consider. Parsing logs for existing Ex fights, and then adjusting for 4 man content because DPS and healers can both DPS easier, the two DPS jobs would be ~65% of overall DPS, and tanks and healers would be close to an even split. This adjustment occurs because in normal 4 man content, no way the healers are as stressed on heals as they are in 8 man Ex, and there is no OT doing their best DPS-only thing.

So basically, they are both about ~17% of overall DPS. Now, for which job would making their DPS easier add the most NET benefit to the entire team? Is it the tank who gets 5-15% more dmg per button press, thus adding 1-3% overall dmg, or is it the healer who now gets to press a "does DPS" button versus a "does not do DPS" button? Does my boosted Decimate hitting for 15-40 extra potency outweigh that extra Holy the WHM casts that take them from 0 potency to 100-200 for that GCD?

Remember - the tank is hitting those buttons ANYWAY. A healer chooses between the heal buttons or DPS as the situation demands. If the tank chooses straight VIT-tankiness, they do indeed lower their personal share of the overall DPS, but in doing so have enabled to the healer to substantially increase their DPS while also making their healing job easier. They now get to choose the DPS button more often than the healing button, taking more button presses from 0 to 200+ potency.

All that said, even if the DPS gain/loss was a net wash (tank DPS decrease exactly offsets healer DPS increase), the survival chance and "smoothness" of the dungeon/trial went up substantially. Not every healer is created equal, nor are all parties where things liking standing in bad, positioning, knowing the fight, etc are concerned. In such a world of uncertainty, it makes more sense for the tank to play to the average and go straight tanky than it does to figure that the other members who you can't pick ahead of time will be geared and skilled enough to let you tank with a reduced EHP pool and focused on DPS instead of taking beatings.

Everyone pays their own sub and I get that, but a lot of "blame the healer" rants are a result of the tank deciding they will play the way they want, and damn that healer for not playing in a way that supports that choice!! Not everyone tanks/gears like me, but hearing it from a healer makes me satisfied that my "VIT-tank 1st, all else 2nd" approach has merit. I just know that I don't seem have the shortage of good healers I read about on the forums. In the game I play, there's proper healers everywhere.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

people keep sayin this but I have never seen healers out dps a tank never seen one parse where a healer out dps a tank so why to people continue to say ths

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Most parses you see are for 8/24 person content. In that content, healers are far more stressed than they are in normal 4 man stuff, but there is a point not to be missed there - the healers are more stressed on heals. Referring to above - even if the DPS gain/loss exactly balances out with tanks being super tanky, the survivability of the entire group goes up because the tanks are tankier. If you consider the gain/loss of DPS by healers when tanks gain/lose survivability, at best a tank going banzai STR is going to add a net 1-2% DPS to the overall equation. If they go super VIT-tanky, they likewise only lose about 1-2% overall team DPS, but have significantly added to overall team survival, i.e. success.

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that vit accessories actually do affect how easy a tank is to heal? I lack the time or skills to do the math on it... but vit accessories typically have tenacity, which while yes I do understand has negligible effect on how much dmg a tank does it also does have the effect of how much HP cure spells restore and how much dmg a tank takes. That being said, tanks do need to have a viable way to increase damage done. It might not be the primary focus of their role but they do have to have some increase, if nothing else to enable them to do content outside of grouping.

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Originally Posted by Annah

when a tank buster brings them down to 5% health rather than 45% health no amount of calculations will tell me STR is better. Sorry.

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Why does it matter whether they are at 5% or 45% though? They're still alive either way, and the absolute number of HP they need restored to be at full is the same.
So what is that extra 40% HP doing? well, you can think of it as one or two heals you don't have to cast over the course of the encounter, but if you put that time towards healer damage instead, you'll almost certainly add less party DPS than the tank wearing STR would (possibly an exception for a Holy or Gravity on a large number of targets in a short encounter)

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Originally Posted by Annah

As a white mage, i can tell a remarkable improvement with tanks who wear tank gear. And I can definitely tell when a tank is a "i want to really be a dps person" because their health drops faster than the 1929 Stock Market

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If they "want to be a DPS", then they are most likely not using their cooldowns very well. That is why their HP is dropping faster, remember, VIT does nothing to reduce incoming damage at all.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

it has nothing to do with how I want them to play. Every possible bit of evidence clearly shows that tanks are suppose to wear Vitality gear....not STR! They even stated that in patch 3.05 that all STR based accessories are going to be locked out from tanks....so when SE is saying and doing these things....how is that solely my opinion?

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The thing is - we're not bound to do what SE intends at all. SE set the rules of the game, anything we do within those rules is fair play. If SE doesn't like the way we as a playerbase play the game, it is within their purview to change the rules, but until and unless they do, their intentions have no binding hold over us whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

This isn't about emnity.

Vitality is not mitigation, vitality increases the pool of health **snip**
Tank heals scale of STR; this is especially true for DRK who's AD+DA combo and Grit+Souleater return HP based on damage dealt. This provides a form of active damage mitigation..**snip**[/B]

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If VIT increasing the health pool - aka HP is not mitigation, then why do you in turn call the combination of "AD+DA combo and Grit+Souleater" that you described, a form of "active damage mitigation". By your own definition of what constitutes active midigation, more VIT = more HP = passive mitigation.

Remember any ability you or a healer uses that is based on your max HP will scale with VIT.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

Ah but you see, tanks like you and me who swap accessories situationally don't exist, or so the soap-boxing healers keep telling me ;)

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Tanks who wear str accessory to do double trash pull are crazy even I don't dare to do such a thing

On vit I barely survive with all the cd with a average healer on DR

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I think those two have the core of it all. A tank has to adapt to the situation. You don't use the same accessories in every situation.
The first time you fight a raid boss is not the same situation as when you are farming it. A raid or dungeon with your static is not the same as doing it with random people.

The problem is people blindly following the trend that str accessories are BiS and use them everywhere everytime!

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Every possible bit of evidence clearly shows that tanks are suppose to wear Vitality gear....not STR!

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And? Healers aren't supposed to be able to DPS in group content, yet here we are with mobs hitting like wet noodles and healers able to add in a lot of extra DPS. NIN had a different intended rotation back when it was released, and people quickly discovered a way to play it differently and better. Tanks were intended to stack parry, but instead avoided it like the plague with its horrible returns.

The point being there are lots of things the devs intend, but its not how it plays out. The fact that tanks can wear melded 270 acc for added STR and do content just shows there's an issue with their design. And a lot of it stems from there being neither enemies that hit hard enough or meaningful tanking secondaries. Extra health does nothing in a fight if you have enough to survive it conmfortably. So with gear adding nothing to help you mitigate, the only way to improve is to contribute DPS.

Until they make things hit hard enough (without pulling 2-3 groups at a time) and give us mitigation stats, the DPS tank meta will remain, as there is simply nothing else there.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that vit accessories actually do affect how easy a tank is to heal? I lack the time or skills to do the math on it... but vit accessories typically have tenacity, which while yes I do understand has negligible effect on how much dmg a tank does it also does have the effect of how much HP cure spells restore and how much dmg a tank takes. That being said, tanks do need to have a viable way to increase damage done. It might not be the primary focus of their role but they do have to have some increase, if nothing else to enable them to do content outside of grouping.

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The Tenacity you mention on VIT accessories, has 3 effects and is a bit stronger than the initial testing suggested. It's a bit less strong than DET for damage dealt, but at the same time it also impacts how much damage you take and how much you are healed for. Personally, I still think it's too weak, because for a stat specifically designated the *tank* role stat, it should have a pronounced effect such that players who stack for it (where they can) are at a measurable advantage over those who do not.

The difference between a tank using their melds wisely and stacking Tenacity -their tanking statistic, vs a tank who tries another method, should be greater than the margin of error in a statistical analysis of the battle log. Currently it's not.

Tenacity is too weak for that to be the case, but because of it's multi-faceted impact on things it's still worthwhile, making all those lovely VIT accessories better still for it's inclusion. STR tanking is still a thing because numerically STR accessories have a direct impact on our attack power, it scales linearly. As we move away from being able to use ilvl 270 STR accessories, we will only be able to meld so much STR on things. Ultimately this will silence the debate.

Either they should revert it or add STR to tank gear.

Like someone said, tanks that self-heal via damage get more mileage out of STR right now so that actually means healers need to heal them far less.

As a healer main, i can appreciate that...

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

I'm saying that if someone is going to start messing with STR/VIT trade-offs, they'd better know what the hell they're doing and do it right. See my above comment.

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While ideal to always know what they're getting into that a not quite the mentality of the newer and more "sheep" following tank players who only make the tank STR because they "heard from someone" or "this source say so".

It gets annoying when the "Sheep" tanks only go STR because they were told it is better and ignore all suggestion that it is better to balance between VIT/STR accessories if they're going into a DF random group since no one know the skill level they may get from other teams and their only response to sticking with pure STR Accessory is "this source proves I am right" and "the forums disussion say other wise".

There are more "Sheep" tanks than people believe

("sheep" are what I call players that only follow a certain trend because they saw others do so or because they are told to do so without knowing the full aspect of both benefits and consequences. They don't really play for themselves but play becuase it is the "big thing" right now before following the herd to the next new "big thing")

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that vit accessories actually do affect how easy a tank is to heal? I lack the time or skills to do the math on it... .

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Because the people who've done the maths came out with a figure of 3-5% mitigation for every 1,000 tenacity. A full set of Lv320 fending accessories plus melds yields something in the region of 400 tenacity.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Why does it matter whether they are at 5% or 45% though? They're still alive either way, and the absolute number of HP they need restored to be at full is the same.
So what is that extra 40% HP doing? well, you can think of it as one or two heals you don't have to cast over the course of the encounter, but if you put that time towards healer damage instead, you'll almost certainly add less party DPS than the tank wearing STR would (possibly an exception for a Holy or Gravity on a large number of targets in a short encounter)

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The crit auto attack that comes at the same time as the tank buster that wipes said 5% and kills the tank. It's also the difference of your healer being able to heal up as needed or panicking over a tank with hardly any HP

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

Because the people who've done the maths came out with a figure of 3-5% mitigation for every 1,000 tenacity. A full set of Lv320 fending accessories plus melds yields something in the region of 400 tenacity.

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So, if we assume the higher end, Tenacity provide the following boost of 5% per 1k: 5% reduction in ALL damage (magic or otherwise), 5% increase in ALL damage done, and a 5% increase in ALL healing received.

Add in melds to both left and right side for tenacity and you're easily exceeding 2k Tenacity total. On top of this, you keep your 25% larger HP pool

I don't think I'd call a 10% adjustment to ALL 3 areas to be a miniscule bonus. Hell, I'd argue that taking these increases far outweighs the, at most, 15% increase in DPS a tank does with STR accessories.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

So, if we assume the higher end

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That's currently not a very safe assumption, so I would suggest you re-write with reference to the lower bound as well as the upper bound since assuming the most positive possible interpretation skews the entire discussion you are going with.

Why not the median? 4%

You're looking at 8% reduction in damage, 8% increase in DPS, and 8% increase in healing recieved, along with 25% more hp than using STR accessories. If you're a DK, this increase in HP boosts the mitigation provided by TBN by 25% as well. This of course is assuming 2k in Tenacity. When looking at the gear it looks to be really easy to get there as most pieces have it.

If you use STR accessories you gain 15% dps but lose 25% of your HP. You get no additional mitigation, and do not receive any additional healing

I'll take the other bonuses for a 7% loss in DPS.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

Why not the median? 4%

You're looking at 8% reduction in damage, 8% increase in DPS, and 8% increase in healing recieved, along with 25% more hp than using STR accessories. If you're a DK, this increase in HP boosts the mitigation provided by TBN by 25% as well. This of course is assuming 2k in Tenacity. When looking at the gear it looks to be really easy to get there as most pieces have it.

If you use STR accessories you gain 15% dps but lose 25% of your HP. You get no additional mitigation, and do not receive any additional healing

I'll take the other bonuses for a 7% loss in DPS.

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Sure, the median will work, I just didn't like the iea of the best possible case being spoken of as *the* way it is, people have a habit of taking such numbers and running with them. As it happens I agree that stacking tanking accessories with tenacity and where I can't meld Tenacity, Direct Hit, Critical Hit and Determination. The multi-faceted nature of what Tenacity offers outweighs simple STR stacking for me, though I wish that it's impact was a little more visible than it is right now. Since Determination is also meant to affect more than one thing, I would prefer to stack it after tenacity and then direct Hit and Critical Hit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Klongol

So, if we assume the higher end, Tenacity provide the following boost of 5% per 1k: 5% reduction in ALL damage (magic or otherwise), 5% increase in ALL damage done, and a 5% increase in ALL healing received.

Add in melds to both left and right side for tenacity and you're easily exceeding 2k Tenacity total. On top of this, you keep your 25% larger HP pool

I don't think I'd call a 10% adjustment to ALL 3 areas to be a miniscule bonus. Hell, I'd argue that taking these increases far outweighs the, at most, 15% increase in DPS a tank does with STR accessories.

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The increase to healing is only applied to self-healing done, and with 1072 Tenacity my Dark Arts abyssal drain still only drains 88% of it's damage dealt, so it's not augmenting life-steal type healing either.

@ 1076 tenacity (Full vit rightside)
DA-AD 1256 dealt, 1111 healed = 88.45% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 3818 dealt, 3378 healed = 88.47% lifesteal

@ 807 tenacity (2x Vit 3x STR)
DA-AD 1128 dealt, 998 healed = 88.47% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 4098 dealt, 3626 healed = 88.48% lifesteal

@ 364 base tenacity (none from gear):
DA-AD 468 dealt, 414 healed = 88.46% lifesteal
DA-Souleater 1556 dealth, 1376 healed = 88.43% lifesteal

So in 708 points of tenacity my lifesteal increased by 000%. The 0.01 - 0.05% differences I'm going to chalk up to the game's calculations, you can't tell me 0.05% differences are significant, and they even go up by 0.02 and 0.03 with 269 less tenacity. Yeah no. If it was working as advertised my lifesteal %'s should have gone up to 92.87%

Currently Tenacity has zero effect on incoming healing from anyone else, and zero effect on self healing generated by lifesteal. The only thing I've seen it increase in testing has been Paladin's self-healing with clemency.

Even at 2k Tenacity if it's boosting your overall damage by 10% and reducing damage taken by 10% you're forgetting that the loss of other useful secondaries begins to subtract from your 10% damage increase.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

Currently Tenacity has zero effect on incoming healing from anyone else, and zero effect on self healing generated by lifesteal. The only thing I've seen it increase in testing has been Paladin's self-healing with clemency.

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Seems like the simple fix - make the impact of Tenacity affect all types of self healing, whether it be spell, trait, ability based on damage done or lifestealing. No reason for it to be otherwise - although if Tenacity also buffs the outdoing damage, there is in effect a double dip, but the amount is small enough to be ignored.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

The increase to healing is only applied to self-healing done

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In researching this specifically, there is a thought out there that the healing portion of Tenacity is broken, and the only increase in healing comes from the increase in damage dealt due to Tenacity itself. That would suck, but maybe we'll see a fix in 4.05

Honestly, I'd still take the % damage done and taken along with HP's over the DPS :)

I won't comment on stat weights and picking one over another right now because in truth, nobody knows the true figures on everything to see which is better in the long run for damage.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

Why not the median? 4%

You're looking at 8% reduction in damage, 8% increase in DPS, and 8% increase in healing recieved, along with 25% more hp than using STR accessories

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The accessories, at best, melded optimally, give ~400 tenacity, that's closer to 1-2% not 8%, where'd you get that maths from :P

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

It's how SOME players have fun, and the argument that i bolded is literally grasping for straws. The 100-200 extra dps for a tank to wear str accessories MAY push the boss before 1 tankbuster.

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Yes, I'm very aware that some players think tanks should just "tank" because FFXIV babies them so they don't have to optimize DPS to hold aggro when in most other MMOs they'd actually have to optimize DPS to hold aggro.

Even if it is one tankbuster, that's still one tankbuster not needed to take and thus mitigation. Of course DPS is a team effort. Still, even though tank DPS is not as high as real DPS, it does contribute to the overall killing time, whether that be a few seconds or not. And sometimes it can mean hitting enrage or not depending on the party. That's also mitigation.

Another factor to keep in mind regarding Tenacity is it only benefits the active tank. This means it loses all value relative to its secondary stat counterparts if you're off-tanking. Since tanks should swap at least a few times, the diminishing returns are that much higher whereas Crit and Direct Hit always benefit you no matter what you're doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spf1200

The problem is while you think it is BiS healers are seeing you health tank which causes us to have to stop our DPS (which from what i understand is better than yours) which then makes everything take longer killing the point of taking STR gear.

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Once again, that just means you're bad at the game. Before you criticize STR Tanks why don't you work on your own fundamental flaws you just outed yourself for?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

The difference between a tank using their melds wisely and stacking Tenacity -their tanking statistic, vs a tank who tries another method

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It's not wise to do something that's just objectively inferior, it's just stupid.