Get rid of jumping puzzle in Kugane

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Originally Posted by WhiteRoseSamurai

It's one thing to make a game challenging. It's another to just be a jerk. And whoever thought it was a good idea to put that sightseeing point in Kugane at the other side of a ridiculous jumping puzzle is exactly that. A jerk.

I can't do it. I just cannot do it. I've been trying for nearly two hours, and near the top, I overshot a jump and fell all the way back down. I just don't think it's very fair to people who want to fill their sightseeing log up, because most people won't ever be able to do it.

So here's an idea. Maybe, in a future patch, give people who've leveled at least one job to 70 another way to get up there.

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Acquire skill

I still haven't climbed to the top. I suck at jumping to the point that I never finished a few games just because I could not pass a jumping puzzle. I tried a few times but I still have more important goals for the game and the this is not a priority. I still think it's a nice addition to the game. I admire the agility and tenacity of the people who manage to do it.

It doesn't need removed, but they do need to fix their hit boxes. When I am tapping slowly to get both feet just slightly OFF the platform to be floating in the air to get a good angle then something needs fixed.

They can certainly improve for next time, but forcing others to not experience it because you have chosen to act out in frustration?
That is not alright.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

What we really need is an Aethernet Shard at the top. So once you complete it you can always just aethernet back up there if you want to see the nice view again.

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Then it will not optional anymore, but neccessary to unlock all city aethernet teleports.
Just hide a key at the top that give the player access to the hidden elevator.

The first time I got to the top of the tower it took me 3hours(this was when DPS queues were still 45min-1hour long, rather than the 20-30min now). Gave me something to do when I finished my hunts/MSQ. Still go up the tower every now and then just because(only that very first corner and the final jump still give me trouble)

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Originally Posted by Maku

It doesn't need removed, but they do need to fix their hit boxes. When I am tapping slowly to get both feet just slightly OFF the platform to be floating in the air to get a good angle then something needs fixed.

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I disagree actually. If there were not a sightseeing log entry at the top, but the route to the top still existed people would be exchanging tips online for how to do it. People would be talking about how you can glitch your position just right to get the jumps done and so on. It would be considered an 'easter egg' and players would have been lining up to thank the dev team for including this kind of thing. I wish that in fact there were no sightseeing vista up there, not because I want the challenge removed but because I want players like the OP to stop acting like it's too hard and then whining that it means they can never finish their sightseeing log.

It's a moot point now, but I honestly like the idea that this exists, and hope that there are others alreaddy in the game or included in future that don't have a sightseeing vista, but exist to be found and challenge players.

Oh, and thank you Dev team for including this kind of thing. Next time don't put a vista there, just give us the breadcrumbs to get started on it and watch us go.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

It's a moot point now, but I honestly like the idea that this exists, and hope that there are others alreaddy in the game or included in future that don't have a sightseeing vista, but exist to be found and challenge players.

Oh, and thank you Dev team for including this kind of thing. Next time don't put a vista there, just give us the breadcrumbs to get started on it and watch us go.

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I currently know of three total jumping "puzzles". Two of which lead to sightseeing logs(Kugane Tower and Kugane Bathhouse), and one that leads to nothing(last set of arches on the left side of Rhalgr's when you enter from the Fringes, backside you can jump up to sit on the arch over the water). I really do hope they add more(Azzim Steppe would have been awesome to get on top of those rock formations near the Dawn Throne...making you circle the whole thing to get up top).

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

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What do you disagree with? My whole argument was to fix hit boxes. I too don't want it removed as I stated.

It's optional. It's also optional to get achievements. It's also optional to craft. It's also optional to do anything involving relics.

Many people have gotten the sightseeing point in Kugane from the jumping puzzle. Don't like it? Don't do it. It's optional like a whackload of other things in game. If there was nothing at the top, there'd be a lot less people trying to do it at all.

And 'oh no you tried it for two hours woe is you!'. Others took much longer to get up there. I've seen a few people who said it took them a couple of days of trying for 1-2 hours a day.

Lets also get rid of savage everything too, since it takes some people over two hours to learn anything from the fight, if at all. It's ONLY optional to do those as well.

Honestly the jumping puzzle isn't too difficult, it just takes a lot of banging your head against it :P I personally love the fact they're adding little jumping puzzles to do, gives deeps mains something to do while waiting for queues ;)

I'm awful at jumping puzzles - did few in Guild Wars 2, mostly because friends wanted me to join them there.

I started practicing with Kugane inn, which also has sightseeing log point on top of. Got up to like 80% of the Kugane "tower" climbed within first 10 minutes, and decided to jump down and do it later. :p

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Originally Posted by Maku

What do you disagree with? My whole argument was to fix hit boxes. I too don't want it removed as I stated.

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I don't think the hit boxes need to be changed. The point was that if the exact same jumping puzzle existed without the sight seeing vista, it would have been accidentally found and explored by players believing it to be a glitch, and easter egg - which it would be. Fixing the hit boxes turns it into just another piece of content.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I don't think the hit boxes need to be changed. The point was that if the exact same jumping puzzle existed without the sight seeing vista, it would have been accidentally found and explored by players believing it to be a glitch, and easter egg - which it would be. Fixing the hit boxes turns it into just another piece of content.

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Jumps should make sense though. Having to jump onto thin air to avoid the hitbox from the roof pushing you off is not a good implementation.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I don't think the hit boxes need to be changed. The point was that if the exact same jumping puzzle existed without the sight seeing vista, it would have been accidentally found and explored by players believing it to be a glitch, and easter egg - which it would be. Fixing the hit boxes turns it into just another piece of content.

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Purposefully, allowing players to glitch the game, AKA walking on air, breaks immersion. They can still have the jumping puzzles be less obvious. Honestly, I think they are rather well hidden currently, but would appreciate it if they went full GW2 levels of hiding them places.

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Originally Posted by Maku

Purposefully, allowing players to glitch the game, AKA walking on air, breaks immersion. They can still have the jumping puzzles be less obvious. Honestly, I think they are rather well hidden currently, but would appreciate it if they went full GW2 levels of hiding them places.

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Breaking immersion is an argument that passed away with the snowman tank. I cannot take it seriously any more. I understand your point and I agree with it in one way, because the walking on thin air everywhere else in the game is annoying. But in this puzzle, I find it less an annoyance than it is a factor in the difficulty. If they did fix the hit boxes everywhere else, and of course including this puzzle I wouldn't be upset, but it might make the puzzle somewhat easier.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Breaking immersion is an argument that passed away with the snowman tank. I cannot take it seriously any more. I understand your point and I agree with it in one way, because the walking on thin air everywhere else in the game is annoying. But in this puzzle, I find it less an annoyance than it is a factor in the difficulty. If they did fix the hit boxes everywhere else, and of course including this puzzle I wouldn't be upset, but it might make the puzzle somewhat easier.

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I think moving forward they just really need to work on the hitbox issue. Leave Kugane as it is, it's totally doable once you learn the tricks, but they really need to put a tiny bit more effort into making their JPs logical. Make them difficult, sure! But get rid of the cheap falls due to invisible walls that shouldn't exist.

I really, really love JPs - they were always one of my favorite things to do in GW2. I'd be thrilled to see more in game - just gotta fix some things.






Also, WTB mesmer.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I don't think the hit boxes need to be changed.

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But the jumps make no logical sense as they are. A jumping puzzle should have a solution one can piece together with visual examination - not something you have to trial and error trying to find the exact point where the invisible hitbox clips out into empty space.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I think moving forward they just really need to work on the hitbox issue. Leave Kugane as it is, it's totally doable once you learn the tricks, but they really need to put a tiny bit more effort into making their JPs logical. Make them difficult, sure! But get rid of the cheap falls due to invisible walls that shouldn't exist.

I really, really love JPs - they were always one of my favorite things to do in GW2. I'd be thrilled to see more in game - just gotta fix some things.

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Oh, colliding with invisible walls that alter your jump before you land is very annoying. I complete agree with that. In my last reply ( I re-read it), I said I found the walking on air thing annoying in other areas, that was poorly worded. I dislike the walking on thin air everywhere - including Kugane Tower.

With regard to jumping puzzles, often in games the puzzles have been unofficially sneaked into games and so glitchy hit boxes play a part in them, which is why I have less of an issue with it with regard to the puzzle in Kugane. But, since it's clearly official content, if hit boxes and invisible walls were improved elsewhere, they ought to be here too.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

But the jumps make no logical sense as they are. A jumping puzzle should have a solution one can piece together with visual examination - not something you have to trial and error trying to find the exact point where the invisible hitbox clips out into empty space.

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Mmhmm. I've gotten to the jump before you're on the roof, where you jump from a long post on to a little tiny post. I line up my jump, aiming for the post. My jump height and distance look good, but then I smack into some invisible pixels and bounce off the top of the post and fall back to the bottom.

I shouldn't have to aim for they air beyond the post. I shouldn't have to step onto the invisible pixels on the edge of the post I'm jumping from. I should be able to jump from post to post directly. Also without hitting invisible ceilings from roofs that I have walked beyond.

I was up there twice now, the first time i took me 10h second time 15 min, its about practice. It seem hard for people to endure the basics things for an achievement.

http://sourcesofinsight.com/wp-conte.../09/image1.png

It feels better when you have to work for it OP.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

It feels better when you have to work for it OP.

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It's possible to have challenging jump puzzles that don't rely on BS invisible hitbox issues and clumsy movement control for their challenge. See GW2 and WildStar.

I managed in about 40 minutes, it was just one jump that gave me grief, it was pretty frustrating at times (I missed the last damn jump) but overall I did have some fun with it. I will say the engine is not great for precise platforming.

My biggest problem is the hitboxes which make me think I missed when in actually I made the jump, my damn feet are standing on thin air! Its very disorienting.

Its also easier to do if you have a buddy to chat with on voip who gets to suffer with you.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

It's possible to have challenging jump puzzles that don't rely on BS invisible hitbox issues and clumsy movement control for their challenge. See GW2 and WildStar.

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It is. It however doesn't mean it isn't doable as is.

I actually enjoyed the jump puzzles myself, however I did not enjoy the "invisible" ledges you are forced to use in order to successfully climb up. That last jump has you literally standing on the edge and after 10 tries the only way I found to get up there is facing the tower and doing a side hop. I enjoyed the reward and the view, do believe they need to add a mini aether so we can teleport back once we succeed. Funny thing is I did the tower first, so the bath house one was a snap.

I do enjoy jumping puzzles, I think they can made quite challanging as well.. However, Square-Enix can def learn from Guild Wars to improve on them as the Kugane one is not really well done. It's a good height for a puzzle, has good challanging bits, but the invisible hit boxes, bad placement of certain jumps etc, can be improved on.

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Originally Posted by WhiteRoseSamurai

It's one thing to make a game challenging. It's another to just be a jerk. And whoever thought it was a good idea to put that sightseeing point in Kugane at the other side of a ridiculous jumping puzzle is exactly that. A jerk.

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Or maybe you could just appreciate that they added interesting jump puzzles to the game? to me, sure it was frustrating at first but I felt really happy when I managed to make it to the top the first time. Besides, there are some pretty challenging vistas here and there in case you haven't gotten them already. I'd say some of them are worse.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

I took a hard crack at it and have a fear of heights, and finally made it. I proved to myself my stubbornness is stronger than my fears.

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This, exactly. The first time I made it to the last few jumps I was shivering and got reaaaally hit with anxiety (yes, even though I knew it was just a game); but i was too stubborn and a few days later finally got to the top :D

I raged so hard for that jumping puzzle. I did it, but I won't be doing something like that again. I would have liked it more but the entire tower has little invisible edges and corners all over that make the jumps strange and even more annoying.

But you know what is worse then the Kugane Tower sightseeing log? 99% of the ARR sightseeing logs. Time restrictions, crazy jumps, weather requirements; all of this and in combinations too. The Kugane Tower can be done with perseverance and practice but those ARR sightseeing logs are pure evil.

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Originally Posted by Erudito

I raged so hard for that jumping puzzle. I did it, but I won't be doing something like that again. I would have liked it more but the entire tower has little invisible edges and corners all over that make the jumps strange and even more annoying.

But you know what is worse then the Kugane Tower sightseeing log? 99% of the ARR sightseeing logs. Time restrictions, crazy jumps, weather requirements; all of this and in combinations too. The Kugane Tower can be done with perseverance and practice but those ARR sightseeing logs are pure evil.

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Really? seemed pretty logic puzzle and was a lot fun in my opinion. Love how SE test a persons ability to adapt to certain situations. :P

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Originally Posted by Naunet

It's possible to have challenging jump puzzles that don't rely on BS invisible hitbox issues and clumsy movement control for their challenge. See GW2 and WildStar.

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Exactly, heck I've been fiddling around with GW2 out of curiosity and the one "jump puzzle" I did is straight up fun. it's not just "I wanna be the guy" style of pixel perfect jumping, it actually feels engaging, you have to look at your surroundings and some even have traps you have to avoid. That's fun. Sadly the twitchy movement of trying to get your character right and not executing the wrong type of movement or trying to move jump and jump in the air only to jump halfway because the movement wouldn't move and you jumped right off, just isn't fun. If you want good jump puzzles, the controls need to support it and currently XIV's controls lack that finesse needed to make them fun.

"Get rid of jumping puzzle in Kugane"

How shall I respond to this thread? Hmmm... Oh, I know! How about no. Just because you gave up trying doesn't mean it should be removed. I never gave up when it took me hours to get up there the first time.

I'm going to vote NO on removing this puzzle, because it's already in the game and already been proven again and again it can be done if you work at it.

however I do not want MORE of this kind of puzzle. it's frustrating and substitutes difficulty of inputting and judging jumps for actual skill.
if they want to put something similar in game make more of the puzzle part and less of the jump part, FFXIV doesn't really do the platforming thing very well.

Rather than get rid of the jumping puzzles I would prefer that SE improve the jumping system itself. There are too many inconsistencies with how the controls react such that it is hard to get repeatable results when going through a puzzle. I don't mind the occasional fall but hate it when it happens due to the software not reacting the same way to software and network response times.

Please go back to the ARR sight seeing log where half of the vistas require conditions that only happen once or twice a month at a time that isn't convenient for 60% of the playerbase. Thanks SE.

I wouldn't mind this one or more of these if it came down to actually being a good or difficult jumping puzzle, not a load of bullcrap geometry.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Exactly, heck I've been fiddling around with GW2 out of curiosity and the one "jump puzzle" I did is straight up fun. it's not just "I wanna be the guy" style of pixel perfect jumping, it actually feels engaging, you have to look at your surroundings and some even have traps you have to avoid. That's fun. Sadly the twitchy movement of trying to get your character right and not executing the wrong type of movement or trying to move jump and jump in the air only to jump halfway because the movement wouldn't move and you jumped right off, just isn't fun. If you want good jump puzzles, the controls need to support it and currently XIV's controls lack that finesse needed to make them fun.

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I'll give GW2's credit in general, as most of the original ones still hold up well, but even it has its quirks. There are a number that don't have enough space on the platforms you need to jump to, resulting in the same effect seen here where you have to essentially 'stand on nothing' (Especially when playing a Charr or Norn). And the weird stuff they started doing to amp up the later ones where you have to jump just right and then rotate the camera to change the direction of your jump mid-air.
That game's jump physics absolutely beat FFXIV's (though the concept of changing jump direction mid-jump is... questionable...), but I don't think it (or any MMO I've played) has handled things well enough to make them feel like a natural part of the game. Might work alright in B&S or Tera. I've not played those, but the movement system appears to be a bit less awkward in those.

Eternal Bond with someone who can get to the top and teleport to them. Easy peasy.

Sounds like you need a mesmer portal.