Why does a Rank 10 Chocobo heal more than a BiS SCH's Fairy?

http://imgur.com/N6QcrwF.jpg
http://imgur.com/QtbVLBQ.jpg
http://imgur.com/tOF8nMJ.jpg
http://imgur.com/rKK7J3m.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nVR25Sz.jpg

Easily 200 points superior. I forgot to screencap whm Character screen, but it is identical gear. i250 crafted weapons on both and identical gear the rest of the way down. 250 potency may not be true 250, but it's still higher than 150 despite not being much higher.

Addtionally, pardon my hotbars, I haven't set them back up since the changes lol.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Who actually balances healers at SE? Do they have parses? Do they know what HPS (heals per second) is? Are they even aware that fairy is so bad now that a chocobo is doing well? Can we get a chocobo that can out DPS Bahamut?

I am blown away that these people still have jobs. Who approves this? YoshiP is meticulous about who he's hires? He must be hiring amateurs who have never played an MMO.

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Sorry but this made me laugh. Cant really get it how someone can rant about this. Chocobos are just fine. They arent even designed for the content your fairy takes part in...

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Originally Posted by Docteur_Fluttershy

The fairy was nerfed, but remember that sch now also have access to largesse.
Sch didnt have access to a "free" healing boost OGCD before. (fey illumination is eos only, and dissipation kills the fairy).
Same for the nerf to aetherflux, which,i think, is to compensate for the access to lucid dream.

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Huh???? No its not?? It never was eos only.
Fey Illumination: Increases healing magic potency of self and nearby party members by 10%.
In HW it was 20%. Literally largesse is only good because illumination got nerfed.

You missed my point on eos, i meant that "fey illumination" is only usable when using "eos", therefore "eos only", as dissipation is only accessible by killing a fairy. (i wasnt refering to the skill range or effect).

For largesse, its an amazing skill, it is not "only good because fey illumination got nerfed", it is a free healing boost.
The nerfs of the fairy could be predicted, but since the devs added largesse, they are are way more important than if sch didnt have access to it.
And again, that is a supposition. If the fairy stayed like she was, and sch had access to largesse with no counterpart, that would have been a healer beast.
Remember that actualy, sch is the only healer that can put himself to +60% healing. (not that this have any use right now, but since raids have really high spikes and low sustain damage, that seems like a good asset. we'll have to wait for the raid to actualy see if it is nice.)

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Originally Posted by Docteur_Fluttershy

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Ah ok that just seemed really weirdly worded. Honestly im not overall happy with the cross role abilities to begin with, seeing as they just took pretty important things from all healers and want us to buy them back instead of making new and helpful healer abilities(like shirk), thats just how i see it. SCH +60% is still weaker in healing compared to whm/ast, but its more about the indom/lusrates/shields anyhow. I'm hoping for omega to not suddenly change the low sustain damage expectancy.

Just please, fairy being OP was a joke.
Healing requierement were just too low in expert dungeon, combined with Shadow Flare's massive mitigation when landed on a lot of mob, combined with tanks CD and enough DPS made fairy able to heal through whole dungeon.

Now, fairy is weaker, tanks lost a CD, Shadow Flare's uptime is lower and overall AoE DPS is down.
But I guess Fairy can get a 200hp/3s out of a 100 more potency means everything is okay.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

Just please, fairy being OP was a joke.
Healing requierement were just too low in expert dungeon, combined with Shadow Flare's massive mitigation when landed on a lot of mob, combined with tanks CD and enough DPS made fairy able to heal through whole dungeon.

Now, fairy is weaker, tanks lost a CD, Shadow Flare's uptime is lower and overall AoE DPS is down.
But I guess Fairy can get a 200hp/3s out of a 100 more potency means everything is okay.

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Fairy was only strong because of how cleric stance worked. Now that every healing can DPS without needing to swap and heal, Fairy is fine. Nerfing it made no sense.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Fairy is weaker than Regen by itself. Regen can be cast on multiple people. Multiple regens (medica 2, asylum, etc) stack.

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Fairy tax ranges somewhere between 30-40% in terms of potency. While the exact value varies with gear progression, embrace effectively heals for a player potency of 160-170 and Whispering Dawn for a regen potency of 60-70. When roused, both moves heal much closer to their listed potency of 250 and 100 respectively, which raises the issue that you have to rouse the fairy just to get to perform properly, making one wonder if Eos isn't just super lazy.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

Shadow Flare's massive mitigation

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Everything else aside, I feel compelled to call this out. People see a Slow debuff icon and assume it's doing something.

It's not.

5% slow is extremely negligible. You might be able to note a difference if you allow the mobs to expire of old age, but in your average fight, 15 seconds of 5% slow isn't enough to mitigate much of anything. Besides, if 20+ mobs are all attacking your tank for 15 seconds or longer, that's usually an indicator that you have a much bigger problem on your hands.

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Fairy was only strong because of how cleric stance worked. Now that every healing can DPS without needing to swap and heal, Fairy is fine. Nerfing it made no sense.

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Even then, AST extended buff duration and WHM holy spam were as strong in cleaning trash.
Every one had their way arround cleric stance, fairy just asked less (to no) input.

8-man is another matter, SCH was the off-heal spot of choice. But then, that make them more a commodity than a necessity. The sheer number a WHM can bring is what can make a clunky party into a successful one, not someone who is neither a full-time DPS nor a healer.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

making one wonder if Eos isn't just super lazy.

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No way, she just got tired of healing expert dungeons by herself for month.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

Even then, AST extended buff duration and WHM holy spam were as strong in cleaning trash.
Every one had their way arround cleric stance, fairy just asked less (to no) input.

8-man is another matter, SCH was the off-heal spot of choice. But then, that make them more a commodity than a necessity. The sheer number a WHM can bring is what can make a clunky party into a successful one, not someone who is neither a full-time DPS nor a healer.



No way, she just got tired of healing expert dungeons by herself for month.

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Eos is like the Doma resistance. We need YoshiP (Hien) to rally some blood back into the hearts of Doma.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

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Obviously mobs are gonna hit the tank for more than 15 sec. If they would die that quick, tanks wouldn't even be needed. and it being only 15 sec is what makes the SCH weaker now, as 30 sec would cover most of the fight previously. I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

Also, that weak slow is the best option here. Eye for an eye is less reliable, virus and shields are for burst damage and sacred soil falls flat on single target. 5% slow is exactly the kind of thing you need in a situation where a group of 10-15 mobs are pummeling one target with mostly auto-attacks, only stopping to cast dodgeable skills.

If it was that useless, why was it reworked the wya it is ? The way it is now is clearly aimed at reducing its uptime without affecting its damage, i'm pretty sure it's not for cosmetic purpose. There's a clear direction toward making dungeon less insignifiant in 4.0, the changes done to shadow flare is part of that.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

If it was that useless, why was it reworked the wya it is ? The way it is now is clearly aimed at reducing its uptime without affecting its damage, i'm pretty sure it's not for cosmetic purpose. There's a clear direction toward making dungeon less insignifiant in 4.0, the changes done to shadow flare is part of that.

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You might as well ask why it has that 5% Slow to begin with. My guess would be "flavor," because it's mathematically rather insignificant.

As you may have noticed, SE developers, while generally pretty good IMO, make some highly questionable design choices now and then.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

You might as well ask why it has that 5% Slow to begin with. My guess would be "flavor," because it's mathematically rather insignificant.

As you may have noticed, SE developers, while generally pretty good IMO, make some highly questionable design choices now and then.

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My assumption was so that we could see what mobs were actually standing in the shadowflare.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

If it was that useless, why was it reworked the wya it is ? The way it is now is clearly aimed at reducing its uptime without affecting its damage, i'm pretty sure it's not for cosmetic purpose. There's a clear direction toward making dungeon less insignifiant in 4.0, the changes done to shadow flare is part of that.

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Not really on topic, but I think one reason for it was to close the skill gap (for SMN), since I've seen a lot of SMN (and SCH) who didn't keep their SF up.

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Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

Not really on topic, but I think one reason for it was to close the skill gap (for SMN), since I've seen a lot of SMN (and SCH) who didn't keep their SF up.

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Uh, fair point. It makes a lot of sense in the way too.
I always though it wasn't worth the damage for its cast unless there were more than one target.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

Uh, fair point. It makes a lot of sense in the way too.
I always though it wasn't worth the damage for its cast unless there were more than one target.

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It was worth it on single target, but it required the enemy to stay in it for 21-24 seconds of it's 30sec duration.

As far as Im concerned SCHs fairies' biggest issue is still its slow and clunky AI. Which would probably be more worthwhile and effective to update than some pretty unnecessary potency buffs.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

Very bad example then ...

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It's not a bad example. You clearly lack reading comprehension. No one is asking to nerf the chocobo and it's healing, they are using it as a comparison to show SE that scholar's fairy was nerfed way too hard. A core mechanic of a healing class should not be less than a companion that is designed to smooth out the leveling process outside of group content. Try actually understand what is being said otherwise you make yourself look foolish.

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Originally Posted by Selova

It's not a bad example. You clearly lack reading comprehension. No one is asking to nerf the chocobo and it's healing, they are using it as a comparison to show SE that scholar's fairy was nerfed way too hard. A core mechanic of a healing class should not be less than a companion that is designed to smooth out the leveling process outside of group content. Try actually understand what is being said otherwise you make yourself look foolish.

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Yeah you get it. Fairy should be unnerfed because cleric stance is what made it "OP". Without cleric stance, we just have weaker sustain and shields.

http://imgur.com/wpXtJQ2

The top sections were the chocobo healing himself, an average of 7k. The thing is, ChocoSurge is such a ridiculously short CD, it's always up.

The bottom sections were embrace. An average of 3K. Roused AND Illum'ed only brought them up to 4.3K.

So yes, A chocobo CAN outheal a fairy. That is freaking unacceptable.

This is at 306 ilvl, not the best, but certainly a good sample.

http://i.imgur.com/wpXtJQ2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Yeah you get it. Fairy should be unnerfed because cleric stance is what made it "OP". Without cleric stance, we just have weaker sustain and shields.

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Not to mention another test, my lvl 60 AST in i270 with a i255 wep provides a Noctural Aspected Benefic of 3-3.3k, at 250% (default) thats a 7k shield roughly. My BiS SCH lvl 70 does a adlo for roughly 5k providing a 5k shield. They should have just left the fairy alone. While I could understand the chocobo being comparable to the fairy it should definitely not heal more. As well people dont seem to realize that regens accomplished the same thing as the fairy just differently which is why they had huge burst AOE imo. This whole situation just irritates me.

there is a similar thread about egi-potecy in the dd forum. haven't found it yet after a quick look – but it's indeed proven that char pot =/= pet pot. At least for egis, which would make it logical that fairy pot is calculated in another way as well. : o

I don't see any value in fixating on the arbitrary chocobo comparison; it makes the complaints seem weak because it's so obviously comparing apples to oranges. The chocobo is meant to compensate for not having a healer at all in solo content, while the fairy is meant to supplement a healer in group content. Where chocobos are generally not permitted in the first place.

However, I do agree that the SCH nerfs were excessive and silly. Hopefully we'll see some un-nerfing taking place in tomorrow's update so SCH gets its shine back :/

Because a Chocobo is a healer on it's own as an assist.

As a Scholar, it's you the healer, and your fairy as an assist healer being the extension of your abilities. Together, you make one big heal.

Is this the kind of mentality where some think a Fairy can solo heal for Scholars in new content?

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

Is this the kind of mentality where some think a Fairy can solo heal for Scholars in new content?

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someone in another thread got it straight on point:

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Originally Posted by Averax

Leveling scholar to 70 was very easy for me. You still get way more dps time than any other healer because the fairy can still do pretty well on her own. She just can't do your whole damn job anymore.

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thats what it's all about nothing more nothing less – this chocobo comparison is just a joke... like Dynamo said now the fairy is actually what she was supposed to be since the job hits the game: an assist healer. ^^

Fairy couldn't solo heal. Thats a fact and you're overexaggerating.

1001 runs proves the opposite but well don't worth a discussion ^^

you got any links to a pre 4.0 video or anything like that?

Vid? Don't have any specific one but youtube should be full of raid videos or ex primal runs... maybe I have parsing screenshots from my static with Sch output but i won't post them here - not worth to risk a bann just for proving : /