The Royal Menagerie

That music though! has a little James Bond in the middle

I really enjoyed this fight.

I kind of wish I had gotten to do it blind instead of ending up with one of those players who felt the need to coach everyone even though nobody asked for it, though.

It was fun until I was continuously 90k'd. It must be because it's the weekend but I actually was recording when those occurred. Somehow we made it.

I'll go do it for fun in the middle of the work week, whew.

I too really loved this fight. Bravo to the team that created it. :cool:

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

It will nerf itself once more players are ilvl 310 and higher. The difficult is mostly contributed by players being between ilvl 280 to 290 gear which makes the fight drag on longer than a group of ilvl 310 and higher gear members.

The longer the fight takes the more prone to mistakes people get as platforms get destroyed and TP and MP recovery becomes more needed which is why it is best to always have someone with MP recovery for the healers currently until more people are geared.

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You deal most of the damage by killing the tail. Ilvl isn't a factor on this encounter.

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Originally Posted by TeddyXIV

I love EVERYTHING about this fight. It test everything I have learned, and I stood up and cheered so hard after we won.

Thank you. Please don't change it. Please keep it this way! We as a community will learn, help each other, and we'll be out geared in no time.

Thank you for a wonderful story in Stormblood!

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I laughed hard at this. You kidding me? This community? Soon as it pops up in Trial roulettes people bail or give it one shot and then bail.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

This is the kind of difficulty we should expect for normal fights. This is the bar for the future, SE. Don't let us down with another awful Zurvan monstrosity, please.

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Nah you want challenge EX is that way. MSQ doesn't need to be challenging. It's not there for that.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

This is the kind of difficulty we should expect for normal fights. This is the bar for the future, SE. Don't let us down with another awful Zurvan monstrosity, please.

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Zurvan isn't even that bad it's got a design flaw ya, but more or less the community made it worse than it is, just like they do this fight.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

Nah you want challenge EX is that way. MSQ doesn't need to be challenging. It's not there for that.

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I laughed so hard at this. It's not Even hard.

This was such a great fight that combined everything from the 60-70 story dungeons and instances; it felt really rewarding to beat it for the first time!

I've tried about 8 different duty finders and none of the groups can do it with the minimum ilvl 280 gear required for the duty... I expect this to be the extreme mode for this difficulty and not the normal difficulty. Some of us just want to get through for the story after all... It would be nice if we could have access to the gear vendors before having to deal with this fight...

Fight of this level of difficulty has no business being in main story.

I was hc raiding in one other game and I know full well how (in)capable is usual casual player.

Difficult raids are supposed to be part of extreme, optional raids.

Casual players who just want to finish msq are now being blocked by a trial and countless hours of frustration for which you get nothing at all except 10 stones.

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Originally Posted by Namixx

Fight of this level of difficulty has no business being in main story.

I was hc raiding in one other game and I know full well how (in)capable is usual casual player.

Difficult raids are supposed to be part of extreme, optional raids.

Casual players who just want to finish msq are now being blocked by a trial and countless hours of frustration for which you get nothing at all except 10 stones.

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It's really not that bad, it's just new and people dont know how to beat it yet. Give it a month or 2 and it will be fairly easy, especially due to people starting to outgear it.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

You deal most of the damage by killing the tail. Ilvl isn't a factor on this encounter.

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Ilvl does have a factor in this fight as the tail is not always up thus players will have to focus on Shinryu himself during the down time of tails and there is a DPS "time limit" in this fight.

During moments when Tails are not up the party will have to focus on Shinryu himself to cause damage and sometimes Shinryu will destroy two platforms with his tail which will prevent players from having a chance to kill the tail.

If too many platforms are destroyed before Shinryu is killed then the fight will instantly reset. Missing a tail or two can cause this if the party's DPS is a bit lacking due to too many death penalty or just dead.

Why are people acting like this is some savage raid content? As long as you have half conscious healers then the fight is seriously just avoiding ground AoE, chains, and not moving during the Shiva move.

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Originally Posted by Namixx

Fight of this level of difficulty has no business being in main story.

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Final steps of faith hit hard and was about this challenging back in 3.3. That was also part of the main story. People complained but after being beaten down so much by 3.0/3.1/3.2 nerfs, the community had waves of backlash against the call for nerfs and it stayed as is.

I guess I was really lucky with this fight.
I went into it blind with 3 FC members (well, one member had looked up stuff but didn't tell us how to do everything) and we had a 5th new person as well. Cleared it after only 1 wipe with none of the 3 experienced people dropping.

It helped a lot that one of the experienced players was a healer and we had a red mage to help with raising. The fight is more punishing than a lot of story trials but I don't think it needs to be nerfed. Once you've seen the mechanics they aren't too hard to avoid.

Never forget this moment about weeping city, We can make it happen again: https://youtu.be/BJwPCxau7CA?t=869

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Originally Posted by Raim

Why are people acting like this is some savage raid content? As long as you have half conscious healers then the fight is seriously just avoiding ground AoE, chains, and not moving during the Shiva move.

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Tbh, your personal opinion about difficulty of this fight is not relevant. I also do not think it is overly complicated, I did it with first half-decent group I got, but even half decent players are hard to come by these days.
What does matter is data from the game, and unfortunately, success level of this trial is abysmal at the moment which says to us that difficulty is indeed too high.

A lot of casuals are stuck behind this quest and I see that as a problem. No one would complain if hard/extreme mode was hard, but this is story quest.

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Originally Posted by Namixx

Fight of this level of difficulty has no business being in main story.

I was hc raiding in one other game and I know full well how (in)capable is usual casual player.

Difficult raids are supposed to be part of extreme, optional raids.

Casual players who just want to finish msq are now being blocked by a trial and countless hours of frustration for which you get nothing at all except 10 stones.

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Final Steps of Faith would like a word with you on that...and really, how do people have a hard time with this fight? Assuming you've never stepped foot inside of a raid before, Shiva HM taught you not to move during the ice floor, The Vault taught you how to get rid of chains, Susano taught you to stack up for the stack mechanics, and Doma Castle taught you how to avoid the big room wide AoE. If you can't put all that together, nor know how to use your class after at least 20 levels playing it, no offense, but you've truly learned nothing.

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Originally Posted by Namixx

Fight of this level of difficulty has no business being in main story.

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Why should all main story content be the level of difficulty that a party of braindead monkeys could complete it blindfolded?

The fight can, as it is right now, well be defeated in a random party completely blind to the fight as it is now - just perhaps not on the first try or even in the first allowed time. It's challenging, but beatable without preparation, knowledge of the fight, gearing or even particular skill in playing your job.

i love this trial too. so much fun

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

I laughed so hard at this. It's not Even hard.

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Clearly a good number of the community thinks it is.

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Originally Posted by Cirith

I've tried about 8 different duty finders and none of the groups can do it with the minimum ilvl 280 gear required for the duty... I expect this to be the extreme mode for this difficulty and not the normal difficulty. Some of us just want to get through for the story after all... It would be nice if we could have access to the gear vendors before having to deal with this fight...

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Nah sorry you're a filthy scrub casual and you aren't allowed to have a casual MSQ experience according to the try hards on here. Sorry.

It sucks even more, because like you said even if you do alright in the fight yourself you have to hope everyone else performs as well.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

It's really not that bad, it's just new and people dont know how to beat it yet. Give it a month or 2 and it will be fairly easy, especially due to people starting to outgear it.

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lol a month or two to beat a MSQ quest? Is this real life? This just proves my point even more. You shouldn't have to outgear MSQ content.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Never forget this moment about weeping city, We can make it happen again: https://youtu.be/BJwPCxau7CA?t=869

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I never understood the "Wiping City" stuff. I would actually argue this final trial is harder then Wiping (it's mostly just Ozma since one person can fuck up the whole thing).

Just popping in to say that this trial is neigh perfect in design. It has currently my favorite trial in the game. From the feel and tone, to that slight tension I get while doing it: it is a perfect conclusion for our literal god slayer of a character in the expansion's MSQ.

My first try was like this... yeah no

"Oh, you killed all my adds 5 secs before I start my countdown? Better wipe the non-tanks with 42k dmg"

Have to admit, the fight is damn fun.

As a player who has been around for years on this game, and is also casual due to life etc, I absolutely loved this trial. I did two runs and completed it on the second try. I actually liked the QTE (I know not everyone is a fan) but it was something different to the usual dodge off of giant AOE or dps check mechanic.

I hope SE, Yoshi-P and the development team don't change a thing! :)

The people I have seen complaining are mostly people who want every victory handed to them and don't want to learn.

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Originally Posted by Sammix87

As a player who has been around for years on this game, and is also casual due to life etc, I absolutely loved this trial. I did two runs and completed it on the second try. I actually liked the QTE (I know not everyone is a fan) but it was something different to the usual dodge off of giant AOE or dps check mechanic.

I hope SE, Yoshi-P and the development team don't change a thing! :)

The people I have seen complaining are mostly people who want every victory handed to them and don't want to learn.

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It's not we want victory handed to us but the fact that even if you do everything correctly, you can bet the "you don't pay my sub" players will screw it up for the group.

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Originally Posted by Slirith

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Welcome to an MMO?

You're playing content with multiple people and the completion hinges on performing the required mechanic. FFXIV:ARR has been like this since launch. The whole of the main scenario (Dungeons & trials etc.) requires cooperation with other players to complete.

I too have been in runs where duties have failed because players didn't communicate and wouldn't work together. I failed Steps of Faith four times before I completed it, and I had about seven attempts at Final Steps but I didn't cry for a nerf, I didn't complain it was too hard. I simply tried again and again until I got through.

Nothing in this game is hard if you try.

I loved doing the trials blind early this expansion and Menagerie was the most fun. Learning the fights without any guides was a blast.

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Originally Posted by Slirith

It's not we want victory handed to us but the fact that even if you do everything correctly, you can bet the "you don't pay my sub" players will screw it up for the group.

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No offence, but the 'blame everyone else for my failure to clear' mindset really needs to be let go.

If you are struggling oh so much with this duty, then perhaps the fault doesn't just lie with everyone else.... about time you took your own playstyle, and thought about why YOU are having an issue with clearing it, into consideration and not just blame all the other "you don't pay my sub" players you are so quick to blame. Blaming everyone else for your own lack of a clear is tasteless at best, tbh.... you're all in a party together and one person can really only wipe the whole thing if everyone else is already down. I got in a wipe-run of this a few nights ago and a DPS I was chained to derped the mechanic when we could have beaten it finally, but you know what? It just wasn't meant to be.

This trial is no difficult to any of the other trials we have faced in this game, it just requires you to learn strategy.... which again, is nothing new to this game. FFXIV has been like this since launch. I'm so bored of seeing people ask for nerfs because they're so used to the faceroll of older content that anything with a tiny rise in difficulty is "epically hard"..... it's ridiculous tbh.

Leave this as it is, it's honestly the best non-raid piece of content for a long time and Yoshi's team did a fantastic job on this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

I'd argue an exception in a 24 man (Is there any other fight in the whole game that starts on P2?) is different than the overwhelming majority, especially in a basic story fight. The point still stands that most fights are a start to finish scenario.

They probably added it to the 24 man to help with the number of chimps that just AFK in the sea of bodies in conjunction with Diabolos practically serving as 2 seperate fights than take longer than the other bosses each.

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You have Ascian Prime at the end of the Aetherochemical Research Facility dungeon who it a two part boss.

I one-shot this trial when I did it for the first time, going in blind. It was fun and got me pumped for things to come in a way that Lakshimi and Susano'o didn't. Then I tried to help someone else clear and we gave up for the night after spending two full sessions beating our heads against the last phase. So I understand why some people are frustrated too.

In the end, you will clear. If the group you're with is not making it, another will. Not all players are good and some will need to be carried through it- do your best to be the one who carries instead of the other way around and the path to success will open for you.

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Originally Posted by SixtyLove

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Yes, let's miss the point. Never blamed anyone Mr. White Knight, never said to nerf it. Let's see if you can complete the duty with complete idiot players. When you're in a group where mechanics are explained yet 4/8 immediately die to the first mechanic and still continue to do so repeatedly until a vote abandon goes through. Course I guess pointing out that "you don't pay my sub*lot nicer to call em this and not be banned from OF*" being terrible players is blaming?

I feel bad. Got Shin for trial roulette today with a really good group (no one shot but excellent progress and two near misses). I wanted to be there when they got the clear but ran out of time personally as I had to leave to catch bus to work. I really hope they made it they were doing so well. Lesson learned though, don't queue for Trial right now unless I have about two hours.

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Originally Posted by Slirith

Yes, let's miss the point. Never blamed anyone Mr. White Knight, never said to nerf it. Let's see if you can complete the duty with complete idiot players. When you're in a group where mechanics are explained yet 4/8 immediately die to the first mechanic and still continue to do so repeatedly until a vote abandon goes through. Course I guess pointing out that "you don't pay my sub*lot nicer to call em this and not be banned from OF*" being terrible players is blaming?

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I find it hard to believe that this continually happened to you, or did you simply only attempt this fight the one time? Either way you must have awful luck in the DF if you are stuck at it, or I'm super lucky an just encounter the nice, helpful people (which I doubt).

Also, you didn't ask for/want nerf? Then why did your reply to me insinuate otherwise?

SixtyLove did indeed complete the duty as WHM and she ran it a second time to help me through it. So, yes actually she has completed it twice that I know of.

The fact remains though that something shouldn't get nerfed just because a few derpy parties failed to do the simple mechanic. Did you check that everyone in the party spoke the same language? Did you give an explanation that actually made sense? Even on my derpy first attempt, when no one knew what to do, we get to less than 50% health on the boss.

Calling someone a terrible player because you also failed the duty is blaming or do the "you don't pay my sub" players you mention in your response to me not count? Remember, you were a part of that team too, you were there for the explanation of the mechanic. An 8 man party can only succeed if everyone cooperates, and in this case, knows what to do. But alas, people would rather ***ch and moan and cry for nerf because simple mechanics they have seen before are baffling.

This fight isn't impossible like some people are trying to make it seem, plenty of people seem to have cleared it on Zodiark (Home of some of the most derpy people I've had the honour of knowing).

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Originally Posted by Slirith

It's not we want victory handed to us but the fact that even if you do everything correctly, you can bet the "you don't pay my sub" players will screw it up for the group.

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It's really not that bad. A couple of the groups I have been in were pretty frustrating, but I just stepped up and took charge of the group. People just want to clear, so as long as you're not rude about how you give instructions, they'll probably do what you say.

I didn't expect people to attack me for saying that the trial was too difficult. I still haven't found a group that has been able to get past it. I guess I might have to be attacked some more by others so they will feel superior to me so I can cancel my subscription to this game.

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Originally Posted by Cirith

snip.

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Dont let it get to you. First group I was ever with explained nothing and tried to pin the failure of the whole group on me because I was a bad healer. Cleared it with my next group who chose to not stand in the bad and fell of the platform less. Just do the best you can do and do the mechanics as best you can and you will get through!

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Originally Posted by Slirith

Tantrum snip!

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If you weren't blaming them, you wouldn't even have to mention them at all. I'm not missing the point at all, you did the exact same thing again in the post that I just quoted. Not being able to clear something straight away, or not getting the strat down first time does not make someone a terrible player; get a grip. You have a massive chip on your shoulder and you need to let it go.

Secondly, I agree with what Sammix87 posted above, I also find it difficult to believe that you are continually getting 'terrible players' in the duty finder but, if that is the case then perhaps instead of thowing a hissy fit on the FFXIV official forums you could be better spending your time looking for a group through the party finder, there are plenty of LFG up on the EU and World data centre, perhaps you should try those.

Lastly, I'm a female btw so that's Miss. White Knight, to you. :)