From Yoshida himself

Calm down?

Did Yoshi-P just tell me to calm down?

Awwww hellllll nawwww *goes into pigeon neck mode*

https://i.imgur.com/MBlS7Wr.gif

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Originally Posted by Mature

Some people just Overreacted in an absurd manner about WHM changes. Specially when the game is not even out even...

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You don't need to play it to see that it's toolkit is extremely weak compared to the other healers.
Heck, unless they completely overhauled the entire system from the April build till now, "waiting and seeing the patch notes" is not even a good argument. It's just delaying the inevitable.
Then you'll tell us to wait till savage, then wait till 4.1, then wait till 4.2. seriously, when are we actually allowed to voice our complaints?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

If the Lily mechanic isn't improved, people aren't just going to default to Cure spam when Regen remains a better heal. It's the same with mass pulling and healer DPS.

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You don't know how it will evolve.
Using more Cure could become optimal in Stormblood than doing mass Regen.

I wasn't really upset about the gauge and whatever... I was open minded about that... could be cool... whatevs... but lillies do need something else... a casting speed buff while having the stacks... increased heals... something... and yes... people will say it's not fair... blah blah blah...

My biggest issue was them gutting WHM of all their abilities... and giving it to everyone else, so WHM has to waste most of their action slots for the skills they use to have... and not giving WHM something else to replace those skill and buffs... that was upset me the most... yet they left repose... because that's a useful skill they couldn't have gave to everyone else instead

My concerns over WHM aren't about viability. I have no doubt in my mind that WHM will be viable for endgame content. My concerns are whether groups will find WHM desirable compared to AST and SCH.

When all three healers can heal and dps sufficiently, desirability of the healers will be determined by what else they bring to the raid, namely raid wide dps buffs which AST and SCH have but WHM does not.

I find the whole storm over WHM hilarious. Lilies boost recast of utility spells, confessions boost things, WHM is "pure healer".


Watch all the complaints vanish when we find out the raids have mechanics that make WHM top healer, glass cannon bosses or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

You don't know how it will evolve.
Using more Cure could become optimal in Stormblood than doing mass Regen.

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The likelihood of that is slim to none. They aren't going to make Cure or Cure II significantly stronger than their counterparts on Astro and Scholar. Regardless, it still doesn't change the fact cooldown reduction just isn't a worthwhile attribute in this game. Like I already said, everything is pre-planned. It's why Spear is considered fodder. An Astro giving me Spear doesn't mean I'll use Living Dead or Shadow Wall anymore than I did before. Likewise, it won't have me using Assize more unless I know the fight and am blowing it for DPS.

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

I find the whole storm over WHM hilarious. Lilies boost recast of utility spells, confessions boost things, WHM is "pure healer".


Watch all the complaints vanish when we find out the raids have mechanics that make WHM top healer, glass cannon bosses or something like that.

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There can be no content that requires a WHM to complete. Let that sink in. There can be NO CONTENT WHATSOEVER that can't be completed with an AST/SCH. Given that fact (and it IS a fact), why bring a WHM when you can bring an AST (20% more damage to the group) and a SCH (20% more crit to the group vs the boss)?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

There can be no content that requires a WHM to complete. Let that sink in. There can be NO CONTENT WHATSOEVER that can't be completed with an AST/SCH. Given that fact (and it IS a fact), why bring a WHM when you can bring an AST (20% more damage to the group) and a SCH (20% more crit to the group vs the boss)?

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Idk man. I don't really care either. End of the day its the player. BiS class can be garbage in the wrong hands. So who cares.

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

Idk man. I don't really care either. End of the day its the player. BiS class can be garbage in the wrong hands. So who cares.

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And I doubt people recruiting for a static are going to actually say "I know we need a healer but you are a WHM so we would just rather not raid than take a WHM."

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

Idk man. I don't really care either. End of the day its the player. BiS class can be garbage in the wrong hands. So who cares.

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It doesn't matter if the player is good or not... people will choose what can bring more to a fight... and right now WHM has just strong heals, and some quick heals... and people may lock them out, they may not... SE designs it so every job can complete the content... we choose what we want.

The only thing in the april build that was not final was the numbers game. The lily system and what it brings are here too stay for the rest of SB, how well the system works is going to depend on how they tune it.

I see no way for cure 1 and 2 spam to be a thing unless they really pump up the healing needed for most content(even tuned up it would still flop unless it was done in a certain way). But from the SB content I've seen so far, it doesn't look like they did. It looks like we'll be able to cover 99% of dungeon etc healing with HoTs again. Maybe I'll be surprised and healing will be well... more about healing than DPS...but I need to stay pessimistic to avoid being disappointed.

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

I find the whole storm over WHM hilarious. Lilies boost recast of utility spells, confessions boost things, WHM is "pure healer".


Watch all the complaints vanish when we find out the raids have mechanics that make WHM top healer, glass cannon bosses or something like that.

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Even if that was the case, why would WHM be more sought after?
Their new and only mitigation is locked behind lilies, and their AOE heal that only effects confession holders is locked behind 20% RNG.
Why would you want a WHm healing something that does huge amounts of damage? They're too unpredictable. Better to have a AST with comparable heals do it.

Yah I don't see how they can make raids and dungeons with RNG healing spells in mind unless they thought of something no other developer has thought of before or it'll be faceroll again. Also it's not the entirety of the problems being mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

And I doubt people recruiting for a static are going to actually say "I know we need a healer but you are a WHM so we would just rather not raid than take a WHM."

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That's the thing, if there is no competition in the community, slight balance differences don't matter that much. As long as each combination is capable of clearing, and it's actually hard to find people for a static, people will just take anyone that would fit in the group. If there is a lot of competition out there, and there is even more due to cross-world PF, people will be demanding more.

It should say "Y'all"

It loses its power without it.

I truly don't understand how some of you can defend these changes, or support Yoshi when he says people are just overreacting.

Unless they've completely redesigned the entirety of the WHM changes since they were shown, then the job is still going to be in a very unfortunate place.

https://imgur.com/gallery/5RYol

WHM skills from E3. Most likely the final build of the game.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

I truly don't understand how some of you can defend these changes, or support Yoshi when he says people are just overreacting.

Unless they've completely redesigned the entirety of the WHM changes since they were shown, then the job is still going to be in a very unfortunate place.

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Because Yoshi P's changes are word of God and cannot be challenged. Clearly. Pffffft.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

I truly don't understand how some of you can defend these changes, or support Yoshi when he says people are just overreacting.

Unless they've completely redesigned the entirety of the WHM changes since they were shown, then the job is still going to be in a very unfortunate place.

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Because no one has any idea what the actual changes are yet. They already said they had changes coming for WHM, things have already changed since the build they used in april. He was right to tell all the people frothing at the mouth witj emotionally charged knee-jerk reactions to calm down, no one has any kind of factual information on how any of these jobs are going to play at 70. People need to chill until we have played the jobstacles at 70.

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Originally Posted by Remus

https://imgur.com/gallery/5RYol

WHM skills from E3. Most likely the final build of the game.

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So basically.... by the looks of it... they just changed cure II to 100%... maybe cure buffed chance... so he didn't say anything cause they really want to see what we do with it first... and they didn't want a riot lol ... I didn't really expect a change too huge... but at least some sort of ability.. or gave the original stone skin back...

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

I truly don't understand how some of you can defend these changes, or support Yoshi when he says people are just overreacting.

Unless they've completely redesigned the entirety of the WHM changes since they were shown, then the job is still going to be in a very unfortunate place.

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Because no one has any idea what the actual changes are yet. They already said they had changes coming for WHM, things have already changed since the build they used in april. He was right to tell all the people frothing at the mouth witj emotionally charged knee-jerk reactions to calm down, no one has any kind of factual information on how any of these jobs are going to play at 70. People need to chill until we have played the jobs at 70.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Because no one has any idea what the actual changes are yet. They already said they had changes coming for WHM, things have already changed since the build they used in april. He was right to tell all the people frothing at the mouth witj emotionally charged knee-jerk reactions to calm down, no one has any kind of factual information on how any of these jobs are going to play at 70. People need to chill until we have played the jobstacles at 70.

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Dreamland must be a wonderful place to live.

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Originally Posted by Victoria_Silverdawn

It doesn't matter if the player is good or not... people will choose what can bring more to a fight... and right now WHM has just strong heals, and some quick heals... and people may lock them out, they may not... SE designs it so every job can complete the content... we choose what we want.

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Just raid with your friends and not elitist a**holes....

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

Dreamland must be a wonderful place to live.

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Because clearly people that understand the terms "Subject to change" and "Not Final" are the ones living in "dreamland". Nice logic.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Because clearly people that understand the terms "Subject to change" and "Not Final" are the ones living in "dreamland". Nice logic.

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The final build abilities have already been shown and posted, and the adjustments since the previous iterations we were shown are pitiful.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

The final build abilities have already been shown and posted, and the adjustments since the previous iterations we were shown are pitiful.

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Where were the final iterations shown?

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Where were the final iterations shown?

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The Susano battle build during E3. There's literally a link at the top of this page.

Er.. the previous page now.

They didn't iterate at all on Monk based on E3 footage. Monk gameplay in action looks completely lame.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Because Yoshi P's changes are word of God and cannot be challenged. Clearly. Pffffft.

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There is an argument to be made in that there was both a decent amount of players that desired a pure healer, which White Mages have traditionally been in the Final Fantasy canon, and that healer players that want to be more still have Astrologian and Scholar.

I don't actually like the argument, but it's still a counter point. These overarching changes to all the jobs slammed White Mage into dead last of the meta.

I understand that Yoshi-P is frustrated, but us complaining that what we're seeing in the early versions isn't adding up.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

The Susano battle build during E3. There's literally a link at the top of this page.

Er.. the previous page now.

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Looks like they want WHM to spot heal. Healers adjust.

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Originally Posted by AlexanderThorolund

He's absolutely right. At the time people were reacting like they had seen the final build of the game.

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The problem with this statement is that it leads into an extension of the Golden Patch fallacy, because you see something that may look like shit but then get convinced that it'll be better upon release because it's not the final build. Most of these mechanics are already in place and committed to, and we won't see any major changes in design for about 2-3 years until 5.0 is announced (only for them to once again cling to vagaries and info dumps instead of talking about what they plan to do with the jobs ahead of time). At most you might see number tweaks, but things that have issues in terms of design (Confession + Plenary Indulgence) are not going to drastically change in a couple of months.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The problem with this statement is that it leads into an extension of the Golden Patch fallacy, because you see something that may look like shit but then get convinced that it'll be better upon release because it's not the final build. Most of these mechanics are already in place and committed to, and we won't see any major changes in design for about 2-3 years until 5.0 is announced (only for them to once again cling to vagaries and info dumps instead of talking about what they plan to do with the jobs ahead of time). At most you might see number tweaks, but things that have issues in terms of design (Confession + Plenary Indulgence) are not going to drastically change in a couple of months.

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How can you have an issue with an instant cast stoneskin (15% max HP) usable after every cure 2 and a on 15 sec CD. Calling Plenary Indulgence bad design seems odd.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

How can you have an issue with an instant cast stoneskin (15% max HP) usable after every cure 2 and a on 15 sec CD. Calling Plenary Indulgence bad design seems odd.

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Divine Benison is the Stoneskin. Planery Indulgence is the heal based on Confession stacks.

Well, even if the shown footage isn't actual and subject to change tomorrow, they made the direction of the future battlesystem clear to everyone. They want to simplificy the battlesystem to let people who invest in this game not get much better than completely dumbasses. They feel like it's a bad thing, if you think about your class and they want FFXIV to be a lazy faceroll experience.

Today I had Niddhogg duty roulette. The other tank was, while OT, constantly in Tank Stance and spamed his aggro rotation. stole the boss a couple of times from me, which led to fire breaths into the group. Didn't listen to Chat, didn't turn off Tank Stance. In the end I had to constantly use aggro rotation myself which led to high dmg loss and especially boring gameplay because of no time to gain mana and play with Dark Arts.

It makes me angry knowing that SE, and particulary Yoshida, is on his side, like telling me. "We don't want you to be so much better then this douchebag, so we take away all your tools, that you cannot do much more".

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Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

Divine Benison is the Stoneskin. Planery Indulgence is the heal based on Confession stacks.

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Oh... ya, that did seem a little weird with the 30sec duration of Confession stacks.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

There is an argument to be made in that there was both a decent amount of players that desired a pure healer, which White Mages have traditionally been in the Final Fantasy canon, and that healer players that want to be more still have Astrologian and Scholar.

I don't actually like the argument, but it's still a counter point. These overarching changes to all the jobs slammed White Mage into dead last of the meta.

I understand that Yoshi-P is frustrated, but us complaining that what we're seeing in the early versions isn't adding up.

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I'm sorry, what Final Fantasy canon? Even in the older games White Mages still had damage dealing spells such as Dia and Holy.

In some games White Mages could damage undead enemies WITH their heals.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

How can you have an issue with an instant cast stoneskin (15% max HP) usable after every cure 2 and a on 15 sec CD. Calling Plenary Indulgence bad design seems odd.

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As mentioned by the poster below you, you're confusing Diving Benison with Plenary Indulgence. I'm still wondering why go for a fancy name when they could have just called it Stoneskin. I think that would mollify some of the people who complained about losing abilities, since one could argue that it got repurposed rather than removed.