[Devs] Add high-end content for light party too, please

Yes please to light party content. I would also enjoy some duo content.

And while we are discussing different size party content, please give us 12 and 16 party content in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

Yes please to light party content. I would also enjoy some duo content.

And while we are discussing different size party content, please give us 12 and 16 party content in 2.0.

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Yeah, I miss large group content like that, especially coming from MMOs where there's even 20 man content.

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Originally Posted by Brickz

yes its a mmo .. that's pretty much becoming the most casual of all time... so if its gonna be casual be that and stop straddling the fence for gods sake. this game still has no identity. by implementing what the op suggested at least u provide more content by allowing less restriction on party size its not like the op was asking to let us be able to solo the content .. for instance why when darkhold became able to be entered with 4-8 people why not just have a 4 man mode where the enemies were scaled to b a hard challenge for that size party. i understand its a mmo, but you need to look at big picture most people that came from 11 aren't kids anymore and some never were so the days of huge linkshells when you had people on all day and available for most /all events is a done deal also. and now those people are the majority. just my 2 cents.

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I know what you're saying. Hell, they could have not made FFXIV an MMORPG and gone the route of SEGA with Phantasy Star.
I think that would have worked much better.

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

Someone get this guy an oxygen mask before he passes out. All you see is red. You're angst is hilarious and misguided.
8 people for raid content and people are asking for even LESS?
Amazing.

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Yap. I'm raging so hard right nao. BZZZZZZZRT!!! /red

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Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

Yes please to light party content. I would also enjoy some duo content.

And while we are discussing different size party content, please give us 12 and 16 party content in 2.0.

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This, exactly.

Point here is not "give me easier stuff to do cause I can't find a group", point is "give me a diversity of content with various constraints and strategies"

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Originally Posted by northernsky

This, exactly.

Point here is not "give me easier stuff to do cause I can't find a group", point is "give me a diversity of content with various constraints and strategies"

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This +1 ^101010

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Nothing is wrong with options - What's wrong is if you negate the need for high level full party content, human nature is an interesting thing, if you lay out these options for people:

- 8 people, hard content with (great reward)
- 4 people, same content with lesser difficulty and same reward
- 2 people, same content with lesser difficulty and same reward

Can you realistically say people won't ignore the 8 people content in favor of doing it with 4 people or less at the chance of getting the same reward?

You can scale all of the content you want, but that means initial design of the content will leave much to be desired versus designing content specifically for full parties versus light parties or less.

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Wait. Who asked for same content, lesser difficulty, and same reward?

If anything, the only parameter that should be locked is difficulty. Best option would different content, same difficulty, different (complementary) reward.

Now I realize you were replying to someone and I did not go up through the whole conversation, but your post sums well the general, and wrong, thought that people are asking for an easier way to obtain the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

8 people for raid content and people are asking for even LESS?
Amazing.

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Then don't call it raid content if that's the problem

If they are developing content with solo play in mind, there's no reason that they could not develop content for smaller groups. Yeah yeah it's an MMO we're playing, but "massively multiplayers" also implies a massive diversity in expectations and playstyles within the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

...
- 8 people, hard content with (great reward)
- 4 people, same content with lesser difficulty and same reward
- 2 people, same content with lesser difficulty and same reward

Can you realistically say people won't ignore the 8 people content in favor of doing it with 4 people or less at the chance of getting the same reward? ...

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I don't think anyone is suggesting we should get the same reward for Light Party Content (if they are, then I agree that they are wrong), but offering challenges for Full, Light & Solo is pure Win imo. Of course the rewards should be scaled according to difficulty.

BTW, in FFXI there were 2 ways to get your Avatars for Summoner. You could do the Full Party Battle (with the long, often dangerous journey) or you could do the Mini-Tuning Fork Solo fight (and warp there if you had previously visited).
I don't think that broke the game plus you still had to do the Full Fight to eventually get Fenrir.
XI also had lesser versions of some high end gear that could be done solo or with Duo/light party.

This game still needs loads more content for every play style but given the low populations it would possibly be smarter to introduce several Low-Man Raids alongside whatever Full Party Content they release. It would be nice if the Low-Man Raids were a sequential prerequisite to the Full Raids. That way peeps waiting for a Full PT just need to wait for other low-man groups to finish so they can team up for the big fight.

Game needs content for 2-4 people, and the game also need content for 16+ people.

Please add both.

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

The whole risk = reward...that's crap. The content should be designed with the high number of people in mind. If it becomes feasible with less people, there should be some adjustments made to make sure people are being challenged.

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Except one day the cap will be raised and 4 level 60s may be able to do the work of 8 level 50s. At the very least make 4 the requirement, 8 the max and leave the difficulty alone.

Why are you so against this Jennestia?

There are times when people can not get the full 8 parties need to do other content.

Look at Toto-rack, it's exclusively 4 people. It's perfect. What's so wrong with different types of content. If they do implement Ifrit to be able to be done with 4-6 people, the reward % should be drastically reduced. I mean come on...

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Why are you so against this Jennestia?

There are times when people can not get the full 8 parties need to do other content.

Look at Toto-rack, it's exclusively 4 people. It's perfect. What's so wrong with different types of content. If they do implement Ifrit to be able to be done with 4-6 people, the reward % should be drastically reduced. I mean come on...

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Umm.... Toto-rak is 2 - 4 people and Darkhold is 4 - 8 people ....

The OP isn't up to date on the state of affairs.

I'm sure once more powerful items are released, Ifrit will be 4-8 or 6-8...

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Umm.... Toto-rak is 2 - 4 people and Darkhold is 4 - 8 people ....

The OP isn't up to date on the state of affairs.

I'm sure once more powerful items are released, Ifrit will be 4-8 or 6-8...

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That's what I meant lol, but at first it was exclusively 4 people.

Now Rukkiri said they plan on having level sync with the dungeons.. I think this is great.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Why are you so against this Jennestia?

There are times when people can not get the full 8 parties need to do other content.

Look at Toto-rack, it's exclusively 4 people. It's perfect. What's so wrong with different types of content. If they do implement Ifrit to be able to be done with 4-6 people, the reward % should be drastically reduced. I mean come on...

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If you negate the reason to do the regular style content you pretty much determine 'full parties' should never happen for content if you can do the same content with less people and get the same reward -- That's what I'm against, since you didn't exactly read what I wrote:

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As long as the content isn't comparable to Primal battles or anything that would offer better rewards -- Why would anyone want to do content with more people if they can get just as good if not better rewards by soloing or with 2 others?

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If it's the same content, with the same rewards but doable with only 1-3 others versus 7 others...why would anyone do full party when they can do light party and get the same reward? You essentially killed your own game balance.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

BTW, in FFXI there were 2 ways to get your Avatars for Summoner. You could do the Full Party Battle (with the long, often dangerous journey) or you could do the Mini-Tuning Fork Solo fight (and warp there if you had previously visited).
I don't think that broke the game plus you still had to do the Full Fight to eventually get Fenrir.

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The reason this worked is because the reward was the avatar itself, it didn't offer the same content (essentially) for doing the mini-fork fights -- Doing the regular battle (as well as the super form battle) was for a lot of rewards and certain quests to eventually fight Carbuncle, it was a whole different content route. Things like this is exactly what I meant by as long as it's not essentially the same content just with less people, because chances are people will want to go with the lesser route to get the same thing instead of the regular route.

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XI also had lesser versions of some high end gear that could be done solo or with Duo/light party

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This was alternative gear, which goes back to what I said as long as it's not exactly the same if not better than what you can get for going the full party route and why I mentioned content that's specifically designed for full vs light party is almost always better than just slapping in content and allowing it to scale, because you run the risk of tipping reward in an unbalanced way, i.e Normal/Hard = One reward, but scaled to easy/solo = same reward just the fight being scaled in difficulty.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

That's what I meant lol, but at first it was exclusively 4 people.

Now Rukkiri said they plan on having level sync with the dungeons.. I think this is great.

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Realistically asking for light-party content when there is so little content to begin with is laughable. They are pushing toward full-party content... and really any content is welcome but I'd prefer full-party over light-party and light-party over solo.

Stongholds are great light-party challenges... sure you can't kill the final NM without a full party (or 2!) but you can farm most of the chests with 4-6 people and get some pretty good items, if you put the time in.

Sorry I didn't feel like reading your whole post.


and honestly, I doubt Square would make a dumb decision like that.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

It's 2:45 in the afternoon on Thursday. at this moment 15 people in your LS are on, 3 are AFK, 3 are new(low level), 4 are in a SH and the other 5 are gathering for Ifrit, or the Moogles, or for what ever else that REQUIRES 8/8.
Why not just allow the 5/8 PT go and fight Ifrit, just scale the difficulty, or allow them to enter.

I don't think anything in FFXI required a set number of members to enter just a minimum. Why do you need a requirement for XIV?

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I agree! It is so frustrating hanging around trying to find the last person required for a group. There are so many times when I would have happily joined a group, but they only had some party members already and I knew I didn't really have enough playing time to hang around. I hate joining a group, wait around looking for someone for 30 minutes or longer, only to have to bow out because by the time we found enough people, either I or someone else had no time left to do the event.

Scaling it to match the number of participants would be great, but I'd be ok with a partial party even if the difficulty were left alone. One thing I loved in FFXI was the ability to enter many instanced events that were designed for a group with just a few people (or solo) for the challenge of it. I really miss being able to do that here.

The ability to enter a dungeon with any number of people up to the cap I see nothing wrong with and is a good concept. Scaling that content for low man without massive reward penalty is a horrible mechanic.

Group content needs to be designed for groups, those having issues or those who do not want to wait need to get into an active ls that schedules events. Pic up groups for endgame events and such are always difficult in any mmo... that is the primary reason guilds exist to gather people to accomplish things you cannot do alone or in small group.

Agreed. It sucks waiting for a full party to tackle on some good content. Especially since the population is so low.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Why are you so against this Jennestia?

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Duh, for the same reason he is against everything that would make the game more enjoyable for more people: Because the more others get locked out of experiencing the game the more special he feels.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Duh, for the same reason he is against everything that would make the game more enjoyable for more people: Because the more others get locked out of experiencing the game the more special he feels.

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Glad you're talking about someone else constantly referring to a 'he'.

Also if you were actually talking about me and actually knew me, you'd know I'm the last person that agrees with "locking others out", or else I wouldn't support party play, let alone large party content (think about that, then think about wanting a "lock out".)

There's a big difference between locking someone out of content and wanting content specifically made -- Scaling end-game content isn't as good as creating specific content for x party size because you basically kill the need or desire to do anything but the lowest/quickest option possible, because that's human nature -- People will want to do the most efficient and quickest route to the reward possible and that pretty much cheapens the overall content, so there's actually nothing wrong with creating the content mutually exclusive of each other while keeping a focus on 'full party' play, which is what other MMOs does because they know there's people playing in all level ranges and require different type of rewards and content as they go if you're not cannonballed to end-game.

If creating only solo-duo/trio content is what's enjoyable, what's the problem with creating content specifically designed with that in mind while not destroying content designed for more people?

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Glad you're talking about someone else constantly referring to a 'he'.

Also if you were actually talking about me and actually knew me, you'd know I'm the last person that agrees with "locking others out", or else I wouldn't support party play, let alone large party content (think about that, then think about wanting a "lock out".)

There's a big difference between locking someone out of content and wanting content specifically made -- Scaling end-game content isn't as good as creating specific content for x party size because you basically kill the need or desire to do anything but the lowest/quickest option possible, because that's human nature -- People will want to do the most efficient and quickest route to the reward possible and that pretty much cheapens the overall content, so there's actually nothing wrong with creating the content mutually exclusive of each other while keeping a focus on 'full party' play, which is what other MMOs does because they know there's people playing in all level ranges and require different type of rewards and content as they go if you're not cannonballed to end-game.

If creating only solo-duo/trio content is what's enjoyable, what's the problem with creating content specifically designed with that in mind while not destroying content designed for more people?

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Ok, the first portion I put in bold...no, not everyone wants the most efficient route due to human nature...many people here, myself included, unfortunately do not have the time that many like you have. Some people's lives get busy...real busy, and some like to relax via a video game. However, due to having little time to do full group content, some would prefer smaller group content so they still have the change to enjoy a game they are playing. There is no harm in that, especially if the reward IS scaled down % wise based on degree of difficulty and full party vs. light party. From what I have read, no one wants the content to be cheapened, and scaling it down for those who just can't afford the same type of time you do, isn't wrong. They have every right to enjoy a game they purchased to it's fullest just the same as someone else who prefers doing big group content.

Secondly, from what I have read, I don't think people want the content to be destroyed for full party content. People just seem to want to have options available.

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

[/B]

Ok, the first portion I put in bold...no, not everyone wants the most efficient route due to human nature...many people here, myself included, unfortunately do not have the time that many like you have. Some people's lives get busy...real busy, and some like to relax via a video game. However, due to having little time to do full group content, some would prefer smaller group content so they still have the change to enjoy a game they are playing. There is no harm in that, especially if the reward IS scaled down % wise based on degree of difficulty and full party vs. light party. From what I have read, no one wants the content to be cheapened, and scaling it down for those who just can't afford the same type of time you do, isn't wrong. They have every right to enjoy a game they purchased to it's fullest just the same as someone else who prefers doing big group content.

Secondly, from what I have read, I don't think people want the content to be destroyed for full party content. People just seem to want to have options available.

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This ^

But really he's all about drops and the game only putting out for people with the most free time.

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

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Ok, the first portion I put in bold...no, not everyone wants the most efficient route due to human nature...many people here, myself included, unfortunately do not have the time that many like you have. Some people's lives get busy...real busy, and some like to relax via a video game.

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Isn't this exactly why people generally want the quickest most efficient route to do things? Given they have very little playtime and want to actually get stuff done in the time they do have available, or were all MMO developers as of late mislead? (Which btw, when was it mentioned I had a lot of free time to constantly play MMOs?)

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People just seem to want to have options available.

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Exactly, but what happens in a lot of MMOs is if you have the option to solo/duo/trio content, that's what people will generally choose more so than big party content if it's the same content, this is exactly why I said there's nothing wrong with options as long as it doesn't kill off content, i.e solo dungeon = same reward as full party content.

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

They have every right to enjoy a game they purchased to it's fullest just the same as someone else who prefers doing big group content.

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Wait, what? I don't recall having a right to enjoy ANYTHING. Some games I do not enjoy, I do not play them. Some games I could enjoy if it was different. If it's not a big deal to make said change or the designers make that type of change, so be it. But I don't have a right to have that change so I can enjoy said game.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

if you have the option to solo/duo/trio content, that's what people will generally choose more so than big party content if it's the same content, this is exactly why I said there's nothing wrong with options as long as it doesn't kill off content, i.e solo dungeon = same reward as full party content.

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No1 is asking for solo/duo/trio, 5 or 6 or 7 yes. Also it's up to SE to scale stuff properly so that a 5 man ifrit is as challenging as a 8 man ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

No1 is asking for solo/duo/trio, 5 or 6 or 7 yes. Also it's up to SE to scale stuff properly so that a 5 man ifrit is as challenging as a 8 man ifrit.

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or they should not scale it so it will actually be challenging to take down ifrit that was intended to be beaten with 8, with less? they should just lower member requirements to enter.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

or they should not scale it so it will actually be challenging to take down ifrit that was intended to be beaten with 8, with less? they should just lower member requirements to enter.

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I was gonna bring that up but then I remembered the new 60-seconds cooldown doomspike. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Instead of restricting players into 4/4 parties or 8/8 why not create events that scale based on number of players in the party?

Sure it would be more difficult to balance each encounter, but what about those times when you want to do Ifrit but can only manage 6/8 members?

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This is absolutely ingenious. Borderlands and Diablo 2 work this way too. More players = stronger, harder hitting enemies with more hp.

Chalk that one up for the future Square!

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Originally Posted by northernsky

Wait. Who asked for same content, lesser difficulty, and same reward?

If anything, the only parameter that should be locked is difficulty. Best option would different content, same difficulty, different (complementary) reward.

Now I realize you were replying to someone and I did not go up through the whole conversation, but your post sums well the general, and wrong, thought that people are asking for an easier way to obtain the same thing.

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I think some people are asking for same content, lesser difficulty, less reward. This will allow people with smaller static playing groups to see the same content Yoshi-P and his team has been working tirelessly to provide but also prevent the "cheapening" of the fight for those who actually do it as a full blown 8-man group.

It's only beneficial to the longevity of the game to give more people with different playstyles and party preferences more things to do.

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Originally Posted by Bahn

I think some people are asking for same content, lesser difficulty, less reward. This will allow people with smaller static playing groups to see the same content Yoshi-P and his team has been working tirelessly to provide but also prevent the "cheapening" of the fight for those who actually do it as a full blown 8-man group.

It's only beneficial to the longevity of the game to give more people with different playstyles and party preferences more things to do.

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It's not a matter of party preference for many of us, sometimes you don't have 8, sometimes you have more than 8 but not 16.

What I would personally like is the flexibility to take from 5-8 people, difficulty stays the same (because it adjusts to the number of people you have), same for rewards.

I support light party high end content. SE should be able to adjust the difficulty as challenging or even more exciting than full party.

Light party hard ifrit should be challenging where role responsibility is clear and specific to each member and if any one die in the middle is simply game over.

Where as full party ifrit now pretty much doable with 6-7 and with duplicated roles. Two conj and a bunch of lnc

I'd also like to see this implemented.
My LS does pretty much everything together, and we like it that way.
But very often we are only 4-7 people online at once, and we don't want to be forced to team up with strangers who may not know how to play their class or how to react to bad habits we have.
If it's too much of a hassle to implement new light party content, I think SE could and should just allow us to do the content already ingame (like Ifrit) with a party of 4-8 people instead of being forced to have 8 people.
If we wipe, well, that's our problem.
But we are confident enough to think we can do it with 7 people instead of 8, too>:D

We also know this is technically possible, because Toto-Rak was for 4 people before, too, and they changed it so it's 2-4 people now.

You know...I wish I could see posts about Strategy! Accomplishments! Brag Threads! Class Breakdowns! Guides on Crafting, Leveling, Farming!

ANYTHING BESIDES PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT SE SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT DO!

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Originally Posted by XStruckX

You know...I wish I could see posts about Strategy! Accomplishments! Brag Threads! Class Breakdowns! Guides on Crafting, Leveling, Farming!

ANYTHING BESIDES PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT SE SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT DO!

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Go ahead. But I'm sure there are good reasons why the community is less interested in current content and more in changing it.

Light Party Ifrit!

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...7f5e004698.jpg

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...7f5e004699.jpg

I dont think this game needs 16+ members in party. This was after (15/15) release, and it was really chaotic, thats why the changed party size to 8/8 and its fine by me. There could be large-open scale pvp in pvp zones if people tag there. That will be also content, wont it be ? p.p

I am having really hard time to get full party togehter, so I cant imagine how would I get another 8 non-existing people on the server.

EDIT : I agree that rewards from full 8/8 raids should have stay better than one from 4/4 (possible) raids.

example?
you re getting 50lvl gear in current end game contents (DH, Ifrit)
you could get lvl 46-48 (unique) gear from end game 4/4 raid for reward. etc.

I answer your questions here :P
(Q) Who would play that if we can have 50.
(A) Me and my friends because we cant afford to run DH or Ifrit (lack of people)
and therefore I think I am not only one. If you have 8/8 parties and you re doing ifrit, DH then you re lucky and you're mostly of NA or JP time. I have bad time zone, but I am not only one. Thats why I came with idea of 4/4 instanced content as well. For your replies that we can go DH with 4+, sure we can, but we cant finish it (/surprised). We re not so good to finish it just with 4 people.

Problem seems to be the population.
Case closed.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Isn't this exactly why people generally want the quickest most efficient route to do things? Given they have very little playtime and want to actually get stuff done in the time they do have available, or were all MMO developers as of late mislead? (Which btw, when was it mentioned I had a lot of free time to constantly play MMOs?)



Exactly, but what happens in a lot of MMOs is if you have the option to solo/duo/trio content, that's what people will generally choose more so than big party content if it's the same content, this is exactly why I said there's nothing wrong with options as long as it doesn't kill off content, i.e solo dungeon = same reward as full party content.

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I am not sure, you tell me. Your last post insinuated that "human nature" (at least to me), you were referring to possibly being lazy, not lack of time. I don't see lack of time as something found in human nature, lazy, I do. Hence why I chimed in.

And I do agree with you about not destroying content, but as a reader, it sounds to me like you were insinuating that some of the posters were wanting SE to destroy content. Hence why I chimed in. I am very much so for options for smaller crowds that largers crowds can do, however difficulty of content should be scaled down based on participation and the reward % drop should be scaled down as well. Very much so.