Yes, 4.0 Dragoon is TOO simple

The OP mentioned our Jumps, you still will use your jumps and backflip in the same manner at least on the surface, as before(imo). You still have your escape and or style points for evading with you backflip, and instant jump back in with a Jump, or SSD. Power surge being taken out will reduce some off gcd weaving (that will be missed along with leg sweep, and may make the rotation less intense, I have not played it yet so I am not sure). But, you used your 3 jumps on CD 99% of the time anyway. The 1% will still be relevant in raids imo. Those decisions came about when mobility or saving your burst meant more than putting out an extra bit of dps at that moment.

My point is I still see room for skill in a raid setting with the new set up, even though I can agree with the up front reaction of "they took our jobs" (lol).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Machinist no longer needs to be concerned about adding ammo at the appropriate times as not to waste shots. All non-combo weaponskills have been removed, and ammo is now consumed by oGCDs, which means that it too, like everything else (apart from WF) after losing CD synergy, is popped immediately upon CD refresh.

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Ammo consumes GCDs still, not oGCDs. There are still non-combo weaponskills, and some new added. I don't think it's dumbed down that much for this job at least, since it's pretty different.
Since the discussion is regarding DRG, I do agree it will be lot easier when SB comes. Oh well, we will know more with certainty in a week or so.

I still think there's going to be a massive gap between highly skilled dragoons and similarly geared players who are doing "the rotation." Even if the blood for blood change from a 30% damage increase on a 90s cooldown is changed to its media tour numbers of 15% on an 80s cooldown, dragoon will still lose/gain potency from correctly timing their abilities and weaponskills within this window. And there is also dragon sight to consider--which appears to have a different cooldown timer, and buff duration. So both of those windows (and how they interact with each other) will make a noticeable difference in PPS for dragoons. On top of that, there's other simple things that make a huge difference in damage output too. Like holding cooldowns and party buffs to synergize with phases of a fight, using mobility to maximize uptime, and also adapting the GCD rotation during certain phases or situations in fights.

Plus, subject to change, preliminary information, etc.

There is still no word what the raids are going to look like. TBH I think you will be thanking SE that they made classes simpler when we see how difficult the raids are. Why do I think raids will be harder?

Sprint doesn't use TP... that means more sprinting to avoid mechanics.
True North cross class that negates positionals... are we gonna get stuck on flank or rear for extended periods of time?
Melee Virus (feint)... We're gonna have to help mitigate raid dmg?!

I think raids will require group synergies to differentiate great players (groups) from average players (groups), not single rotation.

People need to stop jumping to conclusions based entirely around outdated information. No one has even played any of the classes at endgame, this "sky is falling" mentality is based completely on hypotheticals. Wait until you get to 70 and have everything at your disposal, then give feedback.

I see a lot of people calling others whiners and I understand there is a lot of that going on but the OP posted a well thought out comment.

As players we should be able to comment, with civility, on our opinions without having to be attacked and called names just because of it...

Having said that I agree with the opinions of the OP, the dragoon class, along with monk, Blm and others are being made too easy. As many of you have said they were already simple enough, this is a video game after all not brain surgery. I will hold out a healthy skepticism until I am able to play the game but I believe it is quite clear from dev statements and what we have seen that a simplification of all (or most) classes has taken place. Only time will tell if this is a case of over correction or if it will turn out alright.

Until then let's not call each other names and let's permit others to express their opinions freely without having to suffer judgement.

I think people are over reacting a little bit. We don't have any solid info on an actual rotation for dragoon. You might have an idea, and you might have read some info on reddit or somewhere else of somebody putting current info to paper, but that doesn't mean it will translate to the game exactly as they would want. We have time, and I think we should reserve judgment for when the game is released.

As a side note, as per all of my calculations on working on my own rotation with potencys and numbers, I think the it might be a bit tougher than people might think it is... just throwing it out there.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

I think people are over reacting a little bit. We don't have any solid info on an actual rotation for dragoon. You might have an idea, and you might have read some info on reddit or somewhere else of somebody putting current info to paper, but that doesn't mean it will translate to the game exactly as they would want. We have time, and I think we should reserve judgment for when the game is released.

As a side note, as per all of my calculations on working on my own rotation with potencys and numbers, I think the it might be a bit tougher than people might think it is... just throwing it out there.

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I agree with this. after suffering through the min. long priority dance that 2.0 dragoon was, and the BOTD parade that was 3.0 drg; 4.0 drg is actually looking pretty fun and just the right amount of complexity.

I'm personally looking forward to the changes that are to be implemented. I consider myself a mixture of a casual/core player, although I never really had difficulty with my rotations (minus the Cleric Stance issue from time to time). I'm liking the consolidation aspect on skills, particularly for healers.

Healing is...probably the most criticized aspect regarding the classes and the community. Expected to provide good DPS, but also keep everyone alive in a constant shuffle between Cleric Stance. With Cleric Stance "removal" from core gameplay and allowing healers to not have to shuffle between attacking and healing, this will be a positive for the majority. Having skills like Aero and Combust consolidated will also be beneficial. Easier time keeping up DoTs, more time for support (like cards for AST), and healing will not be as heavily impacted because of the accidental CS heal.

Of course I could be wrong, and it becomes a nightmare. However, I've seen a lot of these types of threads pop up and it just leaves me feeling like we need to actually HAVE Stormblood available to play first. Just my opinion though, carry on. ;D

4.0 DRG is may be simplier than 3.x DRG. But still it's way more complex than 2.x DRG.

and people plays DRG in 2.x with no problems, so plz....

Since it looks like I'll be playing Dragoon in 4.x as well...

I'm not entirely happy with the Geirskogul changes. It felt good to be able to pump 3 GKs / minute and still have time to spare. Seeing it reduced to a 35 second CD with a loss in the time cost makes me a bit sad. I'm also sad to lose Internal Release. I'm hoping Life of the Dragon and Torpandr make up for these in how good it feels to pull them off.

Like many people have mentioned this is unfortunately happening to most jobs. As a mdps main myself and returning from a break, choosing a job to take into SB based on what changes we know are coming mechanically was a pretty hard decision for me. I thought the depth and design of mdps across the board was phenomenal in HW, so essentially my choice for which to choose came down to which job is looking like its going to retain the most depth in the expansion transition.

For how much simpler Dragoon is going to become, I'm still choosing it. Even with its changes it still looks like its going to be the most complex melee job besides possibly SAM which is too hard for anyone to call yet without real hands on experience with the job. MNK is well... MNK nothing really big happening there other than some generic toning down of what was already the most "simple" of mdps. And Ninja changes have made it the most faceroll dps job in the game. The moment I saw Ninjas new dumbed down rotation and incredibly simple scroll/auto charging mechanic, I knew the job was dead to me. So while it sucks what they are doing to DRG, at least we get a small consolation prize by retaining some flavor, albeit less.

The biggest concern of all is whether or not combat across the board will be too boring in SB and we can't find dpsing on any job as enjoyable as we once did. I felt like with my time in HW I could play any of the mdps at any time and it would be enjoyable with no complaints. With SB I'm just hoping I can find one job worth stomaching enough to not want to quit after falling asleep at my keyboard mowing through all the easy content. The dungeons and typical content may be the same difficulty in SB as HW, but at least in HW you had interesting gameplay within your micro dps world to keep you on your toes while doing them.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

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It definitely shows what kind of player you are if this is your opinion.

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Geirskogul decreasing your BotD timer was annoying too, they got rid of Enochian's timer for the BLM so it's only fair they did this to DRG too.

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You never HAD to use geirskogul and if it ever was the cause for you losing BoTD then that is just due to your poor judgement or lack of skill. You could use it only when you had 30 seconds of BoTD and that would still be using it.

However a player who wants the most out of their class would use it as much as logically possible while keeping up BoTD. These were the choices that distinguished a good player from an average one.

I actually agree with lobotomize because every melee dps had 2 dots for some reason, and they were usually not integral to the gameplay which is a questionable design choice. However....

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along with the fact it freaking broke your combos and completely destroyed your rotation if you pressed it at the wrong time.

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Anyone having that issue is just not a good player, straight up. That's like saying remove heavy thrust because it interrupts combos, or actually better yet don't allow you to hit any button apart from the lit up button because it can ruin combos. That's a player issue and not one i've ever come across to be honest.

Regardless, the class has had its balls cut off and if you're happy with it fine, but don't act like anyone who doesn't share your opinion is wrong or alone

Anything that increases my ability to focus on the encounter as opposed to myself is welcome. Alas I mostly play Tank/Healer so the encounter itself is generally my job, but dps to me was always boring since outside of the too few add/cc type me hanics all I had to do was go through the rotation and not blow my CDs at a bad time, being as most fights lacked a "good" time for them. So if the changes to DOS and CC result in more interesting fights, I'm all for it, but time to wait out the last 7 hours to find out.

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

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No, all that did was distinguish who came to the forums or read the guide. those that read the guide knew that as long as you had about 21 seconds left on blood at any given time and you knew for a fact the boss wasn't going to jump away or you could be called away to do a mechanic you were free to use gierk. Your opinion and those who share it are just plain wrong the class did not get less complex where it is complex simply shifted from geirk usage to life of the dragon usage not that drg the most strict of the melee jobs in terms of rotation was complex.

ywah but it doesnt change the fact drg is the worst melee right now and is being out damaged by mch even

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Originally Posted by Renkei

and is being out damaged by mch even

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Let's stop stretching the truth before we snap it

Yeah that may be pushing it... but it's not far off.