Is it just me or are people overreacting to WHM too soon?

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

They might get more usage in raids, but the other point is, there's nothing a WHM can do that the other two healers can already provide with even more side bonuses.

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This I 100% agree with

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

If you're using them as clutch heals you're not using them efficiently.

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Healers aren't a dps class where you use every skill when up. The why I play has serverd my well.... you do you...

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Healers aren't a dps class where you use every skill when up. The why I play has serverd my well.... you do you...

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You're free to play however you want. It's still inefficient.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

You're free to play however you want. It's still inefficient.

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Yep see my quote. I was editing and 5 new posts appeared.

If you are using them as clutch heals, it means someone does not know what they are doing. If you can run full DFs and never use them because your waiting for clutch moment, you are one of them that does not know what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Using them as cluch heals means someone does not know what they are doing.

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I can dps just fine without relying on them as a crutch. It reminds when when AST was first released and people constantly complained about mana efficiency and dsp... never had any issues doing both back then either.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Those cool-downs are intended as clutch heals.... if being used otherwise we play the role differently.

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You most definitely play the role differently. Healing CDs are planned as counters to mechanics and burst damage, and when they're not needed for those, you use them to replace less efficient hard casted heals.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

they allow to squeeze in more dps. Using them as cluch heals means someone does not know what they are doing.

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Oh, I thought they meant clutch heal as in you DPS until tank is almost dead and then use Benediction or Tetra? That's what I do...I thought it would be kiiinnd of considered a clutch heal since you need an instant heal if you let the tank drop that low and close to death. If Tetra or Bene are on cooldown I usually stop DPS sooner in order to Cure II the tank to make sure he dont die then go back to DPS etc.

You sure that isn't what Momi meant? I may have misunderstood her though :x but my explanation is what I thought she meant.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Healers aren't a dps class where you use every skill when up.

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That's exactly why lilies suck.

And lilies aren't even the worst problem by a long shot. But they're not useful for exactly because CDs are planned out based on phases and attack sequences and having it come up a few seconds earlier won't change that.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

You most definitely play the role differently. Healing CDs are planned as counters to mechanics and burst damage, and when they're not needed for those, you use them to replace less efficient hard casted heals.

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perhaps clutch heal was the wrong term to use. what you are outlining sums up how I use them

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I can dps just fine without relying on them as a crutch. It reminds when when AST was first released and people constantly complained about mana efficiency and dsp... never had any issues doing both back then either.

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You are not understanding, so ill try something else.

Tank does a large pull. Cast aero III/ aero I while pull is being made, swiftcast holy, assize, presence of mind, aero III (because the last group shouldn't be hit so you cast it here while everything is stun to make sure everything is hit) cast holy (toss in shroud of saints when mp is low enough to make use of it, like 2 or 3 holys? use bene when tank is low enough, sometimes pulls can be done without a heal, but usually only good wars do that, and keep dpsing. This is why me and momi are saying waiting for them for clutch is inefficient, if you are skilled enough you should be able to adjust to bad without them. (Oh I forgot DS regen in somewhere in there but that's the idea)

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Originally Posted by Miste

Oh, I thought they meant clutch heal as in you DPS until tank is almost dead and then use Benediction or Tetra? That's what I do...I thought it would be kiiinnd of considered a clutch heal since you need an instant heal if you let the tank drop that low and close to death. If Tetra or Bene are on cooldown I usually stop DPS sooner in order to Cure II the tank to make sure he dont die then go back to DPS etc.

You sure that isn't what Momi meant? I may have misunderstood her though :x but my explanation is what I thought she meant.

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When someone says they hold for a clutch moment, it mean they do not use them like you, momi, and me have in mind, we are talking to moogle head ;p usually people mean by " save for clutch moment" they hold them till something bad happens to heal a huge amount of damage (i/e playing with bad tanks, dps that don't dodge, etc) That is why momi was saying it is inefficient (dps loss) because it is.

I mean, compared to the other two healers, the updated design of WHM definitely leaves something to be desired.

I don't think there is any need for doom saying at this point, but speculation about WHM no longer being super raid-viable, etc isn't unwarranted.

I guarantee WHM will still be viable in casual content, but people will likely forego the new design decisions to essentially play it as 3.0 WHM.

Is it the end of the world? Most certainly not. Is it kind of disappointing? I think so, anyway.

Yes I think they are overreacting. I wonder how they cope with things in real life. Yes you can not like changes and provided feedback but it is how you do it. It\\'s not what you say but how you say it. And most of the "noise" people are making will drown out the legitimate concerns. People don\\'t have to act like this to have their voice heard. It is like a child throwing a tantrum and eventually the parent zones out. If people continue to act this way I pretty sure SE will stop listening all together.

I play all the 3 healers. WHM was my main in 2.0 then AST. When I didn't like AST prior the buffs, I changed back to WHM. Now I\'m back to AST again. If I don't like something in 4.0 I will change jobs or find another game to play. I don\\'t like the looks of the WHM changes but I\\'m going to wait until I can actually play it. If people don\\'t like the changes that much they can always pick another job or play another game it is that simple. Life happens and sometimes it sucks. You learn to either roll with punches or let it beat you down. It is not end the world

not only is cure/ii seldom used because of regen, asylum and tetra/bene; but the new skill Plenary Indulgence actually lets people cast cure even less since it basically gives ogcd healing, for a limited amount of time. i see no point of casting cure twice if a cure cast gives me a confession stack, which just proves how the lily mechanic is for the job. And if you think cure is really casted that often, just look at the logs or a stream of a decent whm player and check how many cure/ii casts there are in a fight compared to every other spell.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

not only is cure/ii seldom used because of regen, asylum and tetra/bene; but the new skill Plenary Indulgence actually lets people cast cure even less since it basically gives ogcd healing, for a limited amount of time. i see no point of casting cure twice if a cure cast gives me a confession stack, which just proves how contradictory to how the job works the lily mechanic is. And if you think cure is really casted that often, just look at the logs or a stran of a decent whm player and check how many cure/ii casts there are in a fight compared to every other spell.

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Even more to throw in the pile of 'why lilies are rife with contradictory design' arguments!

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I'll just quote myself from the consolidated thread of what I think should have been done with WHM instead.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

- Solid Earth: Passive. Casting Stone spells 3 times builds Earth Blessing, which can be stacked up to 3. Earth Blessing stacks are consumed to either increase the duration of or lower the cooldown of special Earth-aspected abilities.
- Jagged Shield: Summons a shield of spires on the targeted party member or pet. The shield nullifies damage equal to 50% of the target's maximum HP at the time of casting for up to 15 seconds. When the shield is broken or the duration expires, damage equal to the shield's HP is inflicted to all enemies in a 10-yalm radius of the target (hey, a reason for Bards to use Troubadour in Mage's Ballad mode, and for Warriors to use Thrill of Battle offensively!). 90 second cooldown, but can be reduced to 80/70/55 seconds. (This and Solid Earth are learned at Lv. 42.)
- Granite Wall: Casts a shield on a single party member that becomes near impenetrable when they are about to suffer a fatal hit, preventing their HP from dropping below 1 for 5 seconds once triggered (duration can be increased to 7/9/12 seconds). 300 second cooldown with 15 second buff duration before triggering. (Yes, I did just give a targeted Holmgang to White Mages.)

- Calm Water: Passive. Casting Cure/Medica-type spells 3 times generates Water Blessing, which can be stacked up to 5. Medica II critically healing has a 10% chance to generate a stack, and a critical Holy also has a 20% chance to generate a stack too.
- Water Blessing stacks have three effects. The first is that they're obviously used to cast new abilities. The second is that holding a full stack of 5 reduces MP costs of Cure/Medica/Holy spells by 10%. The third is that each stack reduces emnity generation by 5%, for a total of 25%. (The last effect exists because I foresee the removal of Cleric Stance resulting in Assize usage leading to MASSIVE emnity generation, especially with the cooldown reduction.) Learned at Lv. 34 to replace Stoneskin's former position.
- Cure/Medica spells are currently considered to be wind-aspected due to the green aura when casting. This should be changed to blue/water-aspected (especially since Esuna is now a cross-role skill, and Esuna is the only water-aspected GCD that WHMs currently have).
- Holy also gets changed to become water-aspected. (I know this doesn't really matter, but lore.)
- Vital Aura: Requires and consumes 3 stacks of Water Blessing. Generates a barrier around all surrounding party members that shields them from critical hits. Additionally, this will also shield party members from 1 debuff or knockback attempt, but the Aura will be canceled early to guard against those. 20 second duration, 90 second cooldown. (Learned at Lv. 36 to replace Shroud of Saint's former position)
- Divine Benison: Same effect, but uses 1/3/5 Water Blessing stacks for cooldown reduction rather than the Confession/Lily stuff.

- Raging Wind: Passive. Each time Aero-type spells inflict critical damage or Regen critically heals, a Wind Blessing is generated, stacking up to 15 times. Once the 15th Blessing is granted, they are automatically consumed to grant Rage of the Wind for 20 seconds, which increases critical hit chance by 10% and additionally reduces Assize's cooldown by 5 seconds once triggered. It also allows a new spell to be used.
- Assize gets changed to be wind-aspected. (I know this doesn't really matter, but lore.)
- Thin Air: Same effect as before, but cooldown can be decreased to 100 seconds if used while Rage of the Wind is up (and thus consuming the buff), 120 seconds otherwise.
- Tornado: Can only be cast while under Rage of the Wind status. Inflicts 50 potency damage to the target and all enemies surrounding them, along with inflicting Aero II's debuff. Casting immediately cancels Rage of the Wind status, allowing Wind Blessing stacks to be built up again. 30 second cooldown.

- Font of Creation: The White Mage borrows the power of the Wind, Water, and Earth elementals to summon a field of destruction and succor both. Enemies inside the field take 30 potency damage over time from the searing winds within, and the water also drops their magic resistance by 5%. The power of the earth also shields party members inside the field, reducing damage taken by 10%. Requires at least 1 stack of Wind, Water, and Earth Blessing, and using the skill will consume all stacks, though effects do not change depending on how many stacks are consumed. 15 second duration, 180 second cooldown. (Before anyone asks, the activation requirement for this ability means that Divine Benison can't be used at the same time.)

Note: I came up with all of this on the spot in just half an hour, and I don't even main White Mage. (Though I used to, I switched to Bard about a full year ago.)

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On a side note, this is probably even more lore-friendly than the Lily stuff, which obviously appears to be something that was slapped together last minute with a theme that looks like it was lifted from some random RPG, rather than something unique to FFXIV. Consider the design of BLM's job mechanic, which features their mastery of Fire, Ice, and Lightning-aspected spells. Lilies show no emphasis on WHM's mastery of Wind, Water, and Earth-aspected spells. Weren't WHMs supposed to be the opposite of BLMs, for as much as possible?

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Originally Posted by ZhaneX

It's kind of absurd almost how little faith people have in the devs. Like they seem to think they just arbitrarily do this and that to a job, and don't actually use and experiment with it themselves in-game when developing those changes.

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More like you guys have overbearing faith in them. They're not godly balance machines. They make mistakes, or miss things that others may see as well.
Just look at 2.0 WAR and DRG, 3.0 AST and MCH. They were HORRIBLE.
And even after significant buffs, they STILL weren't very good.
You really have to stop thinking the devs are some godly figures that have everything planned out years in advance. The more likely conclusion is they fucked up.

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Originally Posted by RukiaFae

Yes I think they are overreacting. I wonder how they cope with things in real life. Yes you can not like changes and provided feedback but it is how you do it. It\\'s not what you say but how you say it. And most of the "noise" people are making will drown out the legitimate concerns. People don\\'t have to act like this to have their voice heard. It is like a child throwing a tantrum and eventually the parent zones out. If people continue to act this way I pretty sure SE will stop listening all together.

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So what exactly would you like them to do?

I haven't seen a single post along the lines of "F*** YOU SE, WHM SUCK!" (except on reddit). All the posts are providing very reasoned arguments about why WHM is in for a world of pain, supported by detailed information and playtests from the media embargo lift.

If anything, it's the anti-feedback people that keep throwing insults--doing as you just did, comparing them to tantrum throwing children and so forth while adding nothing new to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by ZhaneX

It's kind of absurd almost how little faith people have in the devs. Like they seem to think they just arbitrarily do this and that to a job, and don't actually use and experiment with it themselves in-game when developing those changes.

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They have been attempting to balance healers for two years and have failed considerably. That does not instill much faith, especially since they seem determined not to nerf things like Balance.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

They're really not used often at all unless if you don't know how to efficiently use your other spells and abilities.

WHM has it even weirder because they have Tetragrammaton AND Benediction, spells that are direct replacements to Cure and Cure II, and those abilities don't give you lilies. They reduced the cooldown on Benediction to boot, so that means even less Cure/Cure II required.

It's badly designed, plain and simple.

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the real joke is that the more often you use Cure/Cure 2, the more often you can use the replacement for said Cure/Cure 2. that also means the more often you use the replacement, the less often you can use the replacement o.@

this whole system is designed to reward your healspam with even more healpower. so if you use Cure/Cure 2 already on GCD you can weave in a lot off-gcd extra heals, so your HPS are going through the roof.

however, this system only works if you NEED that much healing, wich is almost never the case in current content. WHM could still be usefull for first week progression and solo heal tactics, especially when paired with a PLD and/or DRK who have access to shields wich the WHM lacks.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

SNIP.

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Short of cussing SE out yes making the same threads over again saying how they messed up and hate WHM is not constructive criticism. SN: funny how the poster above you said they F\\'ed up. That proves my point on it is how you say it. Many people have clearly expressed how they feel in calm manner and gave great suggestions. That is the best way to do it.

No I don\\'t have anything to add about making changes because I\\'m going to wait and see how it plays. I feel like it got the short end of the stick from what I\\'ve seen. The actions are lack luster and don\\'t add much to their healing kit. It seems very simple and not interesting to me. I like Heavenward actions better. At this time I decided to continue on with my AST.

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Originally Posted by Tint

the real joke is that the more often you use Cure/Cure 2, the more often you can use the replacement for said Cure/Cure 2. that also means the more often you use the replacement, the less often you can use the replacement o.@

this whole system is designed to reward your healspam with even more healpower. so if you use Cure/Cure 2 already on GCD you can weave in a lot off-gcd extra heals, so your HPS are going through the roof.

however, this system only works if you NEED that much healing, wich is almost never the case in current content. WHM could still be usefull for first week progression and solo heal tactics, especially when paired with a PLD and/or DRK who have access to shields wich the WHM lacks.

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A self defeating system. Beautiful.

The problem is not with the proc rate. It's not even with the spells it's tied to. You could tie lily generation to Stone and Aero spamming or make their proc chance 100% and they'd still be shrugworthy at best. Assize is the only spell that realistically benefits from cooldown reduction. Tetra is weaker than Essential Dignity and a full set of three lilies makes it still on a longer cooldown. The lilies give White Mages an Arrow card that only works on themselves and only affects four spells. You know, the horrible card that Astrologians immediately Royal Road because its effect sucks compared to all five other cards.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

So what exactly would you like them to do?

I haven't seen a single post along the lines of "F*** YOU SE, WHM SUCK!" (except on reddit). All the posts are providing very reasoned arguments about why WHM is in for a world of pain, supported by detailed information and playtests from the media embargo lift.

If anything, it's the anti-feedback people that keep throwing insults--doing as you just did, comparing them to tantrum throwing children and so forth while adding nothing new to the discussion.

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This. It's kind of ironic. The people that SHOULD be mad are the ones being as constructive and detailed about why this new system doesn't work as possible, while the people who don't care are extremely bitter and aggressive to the people complaining.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

The problem is not with the proc rate. It's not even with the spells it's tied to. You could tie lily generation to Stone and Aero spamming or make their proc chance 100% and they'd still be shrugworthy at best. Assize is the only spell that realistically benefits from cooldown reduction. Tetra is weaker than Essential Dignity and a full set of three lilies makes it still on a longer cooldown. The lilies give White Mages an Arrow card that only works on themselves and only affects four spells. You know, the horrible card that Astrologians immediately Royal Road because its effect sucks compared to all five other cards.

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I would actually take this. Tie it to Stone use, so 3x stone means I get a 20% reduction on a CD in return for DPSing a bit? That would be relatively good. Not game changing (we'd still need CD planning in raids but for dungeons, or using assize on CD for dps+mp...), not amazing, but it would be a lot better than what we're currently slated to get.

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Originally Posted by RukiaFae

SN: funny how the poster above you said they F\\'ed up. That proves my point on it is how you say it.

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The difference between saying someone "f*cked up" vs "f**k you" is the same difference as saying "SE screwed up" vs "screw you". The latter in both cases (like calling people children and so on) is a direct attack and insult. Saying someone screwed up/f'd up or similar is not; it is instead a criticism of actions (although it is blunt, but such is the internet).

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Originally Posted by Hamada

When someone says they hold for a clutch moment, it mean they do not use them like you, momi, and me have in mind, we are talking to moogle head ;p usually people mean by " save for clutch moment" they hold them till something bad happens to heal a huge amount of damage (i/e playing with bad tanks, dps that don't dodge, etc) That is why momi was saying it is inefficient (dps loss) because it is.

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Ah okay I got a bit confused on who was saying what haha xD thanks for clarification!

People wonder why raid populations are so low. The hissy-fit threads that have popped up this week provide as clear an answer as anything I can think of.

People overreacting? On these forums? Unheard of!

No but seriously, people will overreact and scream over any changes and even though they've said that things are still subject to change, a lot of players have taken them as full facts. I for one will wait until the game is released and try everything myself and decide which changes I like and which I don't...

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They have been attempting to balance healers for two years and have failed considerably. That does not instill much faith, especially since they seem determined not to nerf things like Balance.

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This is my problem, particularly after they went out of their way to promise that they would take extra effort to balance healers. It was our 'we aren't leaving you out' promise when SAM and RDM were revealed as the only two jobs. They have had major issues balancing healers as it is and the main root causes for those issues are still there in this new design. Worse is that the WHM design is just bad. Very RNG and very little control over the mechanics. Even if the heals were needed, the new design is difficult to use without limiting your use of abilities, which is what the mechanics is supposed to give you more use of. Lilies require RNG to proc and WHM have very little control over how they spend them. That doesn't even touch on the issues with the complete lack of utility it has.

Lets get this clear. WHM will be able to heal all content just fine. It will get little out of its new systems and spells but it will be quite capable of healing the content. Its just that that is almost all it offers while the AST offers so much more. This isn't that WHM is unviable. Its just AST is a clearly better choice.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Let's play Whm 4.0 first, so that the Devs can get a better overall look at the job, and analyze what works and what doesn't, so that they can make the proper changes.

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The tooltips are out. The only thing left to wait for is every other job to theorycraft their own outputs, get the exact damage intervals of the first Savage raid, and theorycraft further for best combination of classes therein.

If the devs are incapable of testing this themselves before release and are unwilling to release a PTR, then what else are we to do?

Moreover, what difference does it make? It's not like watching the animations go off immediately after our own keystrokes tell us anything more. We can read the latest build's numbers watch the latest build's footage to gather all pertinent information, so long as each skill is shown.

All internal factors are already known, barring translation error or SE's revision.

So why wouldn't we want to theorycraft now and encourage as much revision as is necessary to ensure a more balanced product on the expansion's release?

A historical guarantee to balance the job by the .4 patch is a far cry from balancing it from the start. Which would you prefer?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

So why wouldn't we want to theorycraft now and encourage as much revision as is necessary to ensure a more balanced product on the expansion's release?

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Because the devs are not going to read any of these threads anyway. You are complaining to a wall.

I agree to disagree. It is all about tone. Both ways come off as an attack. You feel attacked when I referred to complaining repeatedly about the same thing is like a child throwing a tantrum. I'm sorry but that is best analogy I can come up with. Blame the parent in me. If you feel attack by that simple comparison don't you think developers feel attacked right now by the way people are going on. In society people do not listen to people who complain about the same thing over and over again. They eventually tune them out. Yoshi already said he is not listening anymore about changing raid difficulty. Soon they will stop listening about job changes because we complain too much. After while you learn how to make your point, stop complaining all the time, and just let things go.

The biggest problem here is that AST is a direct upgrade from WHM

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I would actually take this. Tie it to Stone use, so 3x stone means I get a 20% reduction on a CD in return for DPSing a bit? That would be relatively good. Not game changing (we'd still need CD planning in raids but for dungeons, or using assize on CD for dps+mp...), not amazing, but it would be a lot better than what we're currently slated to get.

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I'm not sure how much more clear the devs have to make it. WHM is not going to be rewarded for DPSing. It's not happening now, and it likely won't happen ever. And any adjustment WHM gets in 4.0 will still gravitate towards reestablishing it as a pure healer, and getting this concept to work. 3.0 WHM is going away, and those who will continue to play it that way, might as well take the new gauge off of their UI.

Once we get our hands on SB, we will find out how "not amazing" their reduced CDs will be.

Oh I agree with you, I was just talking theoreticals. But it just won't work for heals because of different concepts. DPS abilities you want to use as often as you can. Healer abilities you plan around damage spikes. (And that's even if it had a completely OP, 100% proc rate...)

But then again, maybe I shouldn't agree with you. 4.0 WHM is actually looking very good on the DPS front. SCH AoE DPS was heavily nerfed, WHM AOE significantly buffed... and that stone 4 potency is huge...

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The concept won't work for our current content in 3.0. I agree with that 100%. However, the game is changing and we simply have to wait to see how this works in the new content. All healers received increased healing ability, which is telling me they've recalculated how DMG is dished out. Regens likely won't be enough to keep a group up anymore, and even if they are at the start of 4.0. I predict they will have their potencies and/or durations reduced to make healers access their new skills, or previously low-used skills.

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Playtesters of the new dungeons don't agree, and said they were easy to heal. And data shows that durations were not nerfed (Aspected Benefic was buffed both in terms of raw potency and from the new stance buffs).

I feel like part of the 'doom and gloom' of it all is because WHM came into HW pretty underwhelming as well. People were upset that they had no identity, that the other healers had more utility, that WHM had to share some of its more unique abilities through Cross Class etc. Along comes SB and we don't get a new healer or tank because they want to work on balancing the three of each we have so everyone gets excited. Especially WHM's who, arguably, needed the most love to bring them up to speed. Instead they:

-Lost tons of spells to the new cross role system, to the point that its practically nothing new for WHM at all because they'll essentially be buying back five spells they used to get naturally without getting anything to replace the ones that were taken. Ex. Divine Seal was a job quest skill and now WHM just doesn't get a new skill at lvl 40. In fact there are now several places where it appears they will go for long stretches without anything new because those skill are all cross role.

-Were handed an RNG system based on an RNG stat, that rewards something that doesn't seem at all useful or practical. Either the chance of getting it is low but the reward is worth the effort or its a very small benefit for equally little effort. You can't combine 'hard to get' and 'may or may not be useful'. That doesn't make for fun game play.

-Had both their shiny new mechanics tied to Cure/Cure II which are primarily used on tanks and not spammed on anyone unless things have gone really really badly. A good WHM will keep everyone topped off with Regen and Medica II if needed and then use their cooldowns to top off anyone who takes a hit. Nothing in their play style has ever been catered to mass cure spam and its not a very appealing idea to suddenly try to force them into.

-Overall just feel neglected, both in the 'rework' aspect we were promised and, personally, the visual aspect. More rocks? Yay? More vague flashy lights? Double yay. Meanwhile AST summons a freakin galaxy.

While I will say some people take it all too far with threats of quitting etc, I agree I feel rather miffed about the situation and rather past the point of feeling like I want to be patient with them. It puts a damper on the whole thing when you realize you may have to deal with slipshod design for months before they decide to do something about it so honestly right now I'm just hoping they at least adjust the percentages and procs of the lily system before launch.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Oh I agree with you, I was just talking theoreticals. But it just won't work for heals because of different concepts. DPS abilities you want to use as often as you can. Healer abilities you plan around damage spikes. (And that's even if it had a completely OP, 100% proc rate...)

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The concept won't work for our current content in 3.0. I agree with that 100%. However, the game is changing and we simply have to wait to see how this works in the new content. All healers received increased healing ability, which is telling me they've recalculated how DMG is dished out. Regens likely won't be enough to keep a group up anymore, and even if they are at the start of 4.0. I predict they will have their potencies and/or durations reduced to make healers access their new skills, or previously low-used skills.

Pure healer simply will never be optimal when the fights are tuned for any healer combo to be able to complete it. If an AST can heal it instead of a whm while giving buffs to the group and dps, why would anyone opt for a whm over an ast. Sure a group CAN do it with a whm. But going sub-optimal means the performance will have to be that much better leaving most groups leaning towards the healers that bring more utility other than pure heals.

So are people over reacting. Maybe, but there is still a valid point. If they insist on direct spells giving lilies why not let stone provide a lily too?

Divine Benison is just stoneskin that I won't be able to cast as often because it needs Lillies. You can't just take a spell away, change it's name to something dumb, slap some restrictions on how it's cast, and call it something new. This is not a new spell, this is an insult.

Plenary Indulgence makes no sense at all. It's an AoE but it only heals people you were already spamming cures on. If people other than the tank need healing I would use one of the AoE heals I already have, not cures. If I have time to spam cure on multiple people then I have time to heal them fully with something else. It seems like a spell I would need to go extremely far out of my way to make full use of, if it's even possible to get a full stack on all party members at once.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

- Their primary mechanic is -entirely- RNG-based. No other job behaves this way. Even worse, it's based on a 20% chance when casting two single target healing spells. Do you realize how low of an activation chance 20% is? Go play Bard, and keep track of how many times Straighter Shot activates throughout the course of a fight. Then consider that Heavy Shot is a Bard's most spammed attack, while you shouldn't be spamming Cure I/II at all unless you want to run out of mana quickly or not contribute anything else in a fight (since chances are you're going to be overhealing - and thus generating immense unnecessary aggro). And if you're spamming Cure I/II that much in an attempt to generate lilies, why should you even cast Regen?

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the machinist want to talk with you about them ammo thing.... them whole combo mechanic is based on rng...

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- Their primary mechanic also eats their stacks whenever they use their key skills with no choice in the matter, some of which they can't really afford to delay for too long, like Assize.

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the AST want to have a word with you with royal road buff that get consumed at the next use... forcing you to think a bit before use your card.

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- WHM still doesn't have any unique defining support that truly separates them from SCH and AST (if anything, they LOST some uniqueness with the removal of Stoneskin), unless we're counting the fact that WHM didn't really get nerfed in terms of damage inflicted against multiple mobs while almost every other job did. And as it turns out, attacking doesn't do anything for their primary mechanic anyways, not to mention the vast majority of major fights are single target affairs!

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if the white mage can heal stronger than other (what it can already, you know?)it means he can dps more before heal... then assist in dps... or in raid allows the second healer (generally ast or sch) to dps more. assist is not only about give a buff, but allows other to do more...

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And none of the above is even getting into what AST and SCH gained in comparison. Sometimes, you don't have to have played it yourself or even main the job to realize there's something wrong here. For me personally, this WHM situation mirrors what I saw in the previous MMO I played that ultimately resulted in the healer community being permanently decimated, and I have fears that I'm watching the same about to happen in FFXIV. I just hope it doesn't take the FFXIV devs two years to acknowledge that there's even a problem compared to that previous MMO.

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from what i have seen soo far, you have little to no knowledge about how the game work for the other jobs... they want make people focus on using mono heal instead to play the easy road of aoe heal... because maybe the monster in Stormblood will hit far harder and will recquire more solo heal than aoe heal.. in the video about the dungeon a sam did get a 19k damage from an aoe of a trash... it's insane... and it's only level 63... i think people really need to stop to over react and wait to test the actual change on the long terms... and stop with meta is absolute... yoshida have make sure is possible to do every content with any composition... if your group only want to rely on the best of the best... they aren't really facing the challenge... they are taking the easy way out by playing the best in the slot composition.

In this case, I'd have to disagree about people overreacting. I feel like devs listened to complaints from most jobs. Bards complained, "cast bars are for mages", the dev team said, "boom, they're gone", Paladins complained, "we suck against magic" the dev team said, "boom, shields now block magic", Black Mages complained, "Enochian is hard", the dev team said, "boom, easy button", White Mages complained, "We'd like more..." the devs basically said, "Shut up and hold these lillies." It doesn't seem as if they've done anything to fix issues WHM's had with the job and realistically, the best way to let them know that is by complaining loudly and often.

its just you! Doom and gloom!!!! ripWHM!