Most Coil fights were already nerfed to the ground, and as OP said, queues never pop. It's not relevant to new players in any way, this character haven't stepped foot on Coil and she's not missing anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi
Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.
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04-25-2017, 06:52 AMRirita
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04-25-2017, 06:56 AMHyoMinParkExcept this is not "current level" content. Crystal Tower isn't either, but people run it usually for WT or for the weekly aether oil. And CT can be super facerolled, with the exception of WoD (which was probably still harder back at level/ilvl for it).Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
I don't see what's so wrong about actually learning a fight and it's mechanics. For dated content or for current content. You're mentioning Bahamut, but that's the exact reason it should be hard. Bahamut caused the Calamity that shook Eorzea to its core. Why would you want him to be faceroll? Coil was the equivalent to Alexander Savage back in the day (SCoB Savage was for those who truly wanted to push themselves). It's not designed to be pugged in Duty Finder. Just like Alex Savage is not designed to be pugged either, but rather ran with a static (although Creator Savage is not too too hard to PUG for some tiers).
@Ririta: T9 is not that difficult if people actually bother to follow mechanics. Half the time they aren't dying to Nael, but to not handling meteors correctly, or letting the golems get too close to each other.
And why even nerf "optional" content anyways. You could use that argument to argue against nerfing. It's not "required" to progress through the MSQ. It won't be "required" for 4.0, or any other subsequent expansion. And, even if it is the most amazing piece of content in this game, it is still not current content, which is what the developers should be focusing on. Not nerfing older content that's easy now if people just do mechanics.
That's your opinion. If it's so irrelevant, why bother with changing it, or nerfing it more than it already has been? Coil wasn't designed for PUGs/DF anyways. And aside from having the best storyline in the game, there are not enough "incentives" for people to want to PUG it at level, unless they just want to do it for fun, or to challenge themselves. In which case, they make a PF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ririta
But I find that finding players that would want to do sync'd/minimum ilvl Coil for funnsies are, unfortunately, few and far between (they're out there, just difficult to find in the sea of facerollers). People would rather unsync content, and watch Netflix during while just spamming 1-2-3. -
04-25-2017, 06:57 AMDaikiKiyoshiQuote:
Originally Posted by Ririta
ir·rel·e·vant
əˈreləvənt/
adjective
not connected with or relevant to something.
synonyms: beside the point, immaterial, not pertinent, not germane, off the subject, unconnected, unrelated, peripheral, extraneous, inapposite, inapplicable;
The Binding Coil of Bahamut is anything but irrelevant. It's firmly tied into the entire story of ARR as a whole. -
04-25-2017, 07:06 AMSenorPatty
If its giving you trouble in unsynched, even more reason to leave it as is.
Raids like coil are not day-to-day content. The fact that you face difficulties in it while you're capped should actually give you pause to think about what it means if it gets nerfed. Compare this raid to everything that is not a raid in this game and you'll see how there's always a great disparity between how many people do a raid.
Its not just the raid that gets affected when it gets nerfed. People run the harder coils for glam and craft mats to produce the other rare coil glams. I can guarantee you the prices you see now are definitely not the same as before.
Its why I wish people who revisit old raid content stop asking for nerfs because not only most of them are already nerfed to begin with but you can only nerf something so much before its rendered completely obsolete-and by extension-all it provides. -
04-25-2017, 07:08 AMViduFirst off a little layout-suggestion, not meant as an attack but could you stop putting "..." behind every second word? It makes your statements not easier and even almost painful to read (I know I'm guitly of using it a lot myself, but your posts have inspired me to tune it back, even in personal conversations with friends because I just realised how annoying it is to read)Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
Now, to your point - or to my point, however you'll see it - just because the content is old, doesnt mean it has to become totally meanigless. Coil currently serves two main meanings: Story and challenge. The game grows and more content gets added, but why should we have only one challenging raid in the game? Why should the only challenge be current raid-content? Its like "Oh, we got two new dungeons with this new patch - lets kick the two oldest ones out!"
There is a variety of content the casual player can pick from and it grows with each patch - so why not have the same for people who want to challenge themself by piling up on difficult content too?
Even if the gear is already outdated - except for glamour purpose, ofc! Second Coil gear is amazing! - there is still a relevant reward: The story. I raided back then and I never cared much for the gear - I raided for the story. So there is still a reward in place for beating that content.
You cant really compare Coil to 24man-raids, its different content - 24man raids are faceroll easy (and the devs put drops for current content, aka relic, in there)
It makes me a little angry to always see this attitude of "I want everything in this game but I dont want to put any effort into it!" - seriously, if thats what you want: Go and watch a Lets Play.
Coil fits the skill- and itemlevel it was designed for. It is not assigned to be challenge at level 60. It is not assigned to be facerolled by a bunch of strangers. Its in the DF for convenience - not because its now supposed to be easy enough to be cleared in DF.
Excatly. Coil has already been damaged enough - why make it even more of faceroll, braindead content?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ririta
The fact that its two years olf doesnt mean that there arent people out there who'd like to take on the challenge. Or who would like to take on challenging content besides Alex Savage. Casuals get more content each patch - why shouldnt raiders too? Except for the game to offer more challenging content, the old challenges have to stay in place. -
04-25-2017, 07:13 AMSilverquickWell there was this part in the 2nd turn of the Final Coil,Quote:
Originally Posted by aleph_null
We'd made it through the other insta death mechanics eventually, but then we got to this part with these Orbs that appear, and each one is different... apparently you need to tank two of them which we only had one tank unsynced...
And we'd beat down one, but apparently when it touches the other one some raid wipe mechanic is supposed to go off..
Well it did, but couldn't kill us so we were just stuck...
I tried to use Titan to tank one of them while the actual Tank took the other one...
But one of them got away apparently and jammed up everything... so we were whacking on this other one that was invulnerable and nothing could be killed at that point so we were basically stuck and it won't go any further...
If I could have queued with a full party (aka duty finder) I'm sure we could have handled it, but with only 1 tank 1 healer and 3 DPS we didn't have the numbers to do it even unsynced. -
04-25-2017, 07:15 AMHyoMinParkI mean, if you really want to get killed in Coil at level 60, provided your HP pool is low enough, you could just stand outside of the neurolink for Teraflare. Tbh, I have no idea what you're actually trying to say here. You were against insta-kill mechanics, but now you're talking about how you can't clear because lack there of? I'm genuinely confused here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
Regardless, older raids/primals and the newer ones still have mechanics that, if you don't follow them, can and will kill you. I do wish they would add more primal fights where if you push the boss too hard, it results in a wipe. I always find it fun when I'm in groups that do that for Ifrit, Levi, or Ramuh. Gives me a good laugh. But this content is supposed to be challenging. Why would you not add mechanics that can result in death if ignored/executed improperly?
I really wish Coil was included in mentor roulette, to be honest. I would find it fun to get thrown into T13 sync'd down to 50 with newbies. Would give me an actual challenge for once...something refreshing, because I tend to just get leveling dungeons in my mentor roulette. :v Only got one Ex primal, and it was Ifrit. That was actually fun though, even though it took nearly the entire time to clear it (there were two new people, I think? Tank and a healer).
Addition: I see your above post. I mean, your group chose to enter with only 5 people. And you chose to enter with only 1 tank. I fail to see how that's the fault of the content itself.
And you could have queued with a full party. It's called "waiting for your PF to fill." Because they do fill, even for Coil. -
04-25-2017, 07:18 AMCrystenBack at level 50 it was harder. Not just the level difference, but you also had no Echo and they actually nerfed several aspects of all the fights in coil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
Hate to break it to you, but if your FC had trouble with Coil unsynced at 60, you all need to quit sucking.
Then take two tanks or have one of your DPS tank the second mob? Come on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
Asking for nerfs to fights that can already be facerolled by a competent four man party at level 60? Get out. -
04-25-2017, 07:22 AMSilverquickReally?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crysten
Then why exactly did the mechanic jam up and freeze the entire fight so we were stuck there? -
04-25-2017, 07:24 AMViduYou need to tanke the sphere and the cube, yes - egg cant be tanked, but will move around the room. A level 60 mage should be in charge of the cube here, and serve both as a tank and as the person whos damaging it down. Tank the ball - and move both adds so they wont come close to each other or near the egg (that automatically moves).Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
From your description it sounds as if you were very unsure how mechanics work in the fight and instead expected them to not matter, like every other content in the game where you can just ignore them. Instead of nerfing content by making mechanics meanigless we should really start to ask for relevant mechanics in day-to-day-content so people will stop whining when they actually have to do something.
FYI: Two friends of mine and I three man'ed T12 a year ago - we had so, so much fun with it, figuring out a good composition to handle the content (we might went PLD, DRG, SCH, not sure anymore...) and new ways to deal with mechanics now. It was a challenge and it took us a few tries, but I cant tell you how much we enjoyed it!
If you dont want to challenge yourself: Please, just stay away from content that is meant to be a challenge. Its okay. You dont have to see everything in the game if you dont like certain aspects. But please, please dont ruin it for those people who enjoy to do more than press 3 buttons to get through any content.
My friends and I are actually planning to go back into coil - we got 2 months til Stormblood, nothing to do anymore and are very curious if we can still handle the difficult content this game has to offer!
What mechanic are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
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04-25-2017, 07:29 AMaleph_nullYou don't need two tanks, the most obvious way would be to have whoever have the highest aggro (highest dps?) on the adds move to kite it. When you do contents with nonstandard party composition you need to adjust accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
Oh and you can kill yourself by stepping into the middle circle, it'll kill you even at lv 60.
Edit: If you queue via DF you'll be synced to 50, and if you can't clear it unsynced I really doubt you'll be able to clear it synced. -
04-25-2017, 07:29 AMSilverquickThe very one you just described... I soloed one of the Cube... the other Tank was supposed to take the other one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
I'm thinking the egg touched the other one... but at that point some mechanic went off... and jammed up the entire instance. We were stuck there with and couldn't kill anything anymore.
He said this was supposed to be some kind of raid wipe mechanic... but we were too strong for it...
So it basically locked up the entire instance instead. -
04-25-2017, 07:30 AMThirdChild_ZKI1. Time has nerfed it all already with higher gear and the ability to run it unsynced. And even if you want to run it synced, there's the Echo as well. So it's already BEEN nerfed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ririta
2. You haven't seen the "spin strat" video, have you? -
04-25-2017, 07:31 AMLunaFayeBecause some mechanics can't be skipped/ignored/pushed and will lead to a full party wipe when being attempted. Just look at the fights itself, if you see that some mechanics would overlap with a phase change, that can't be avoided, slow down your dps and give it a second. We've done that back in the day too, after most of the parties are geared enough you'll find yourself in scenarios that needs you to alternate the upcoming events and actions. Coil can't be afk'd and face rolled in comparison to a lot of the newer content that has the option to skip a specific part of the fight itself, if you have good dps in your group. After the nerfs have been applied, you can actually solo or duo the first 5 turns of coil, but even tho you can eat one or two dive bombs without dying if you're not smacked into the fire wall. You can't just stand in the middle eat all the bombs, don't stand on the green circles during phase change and then hope that you're going to survive it and there's other circumstances/examples too, especially when it comes to the higher turns of coil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
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04-25-2017, 07:39 AMBloodyThe Binding Coils of Bahamut were THE endgame raid for ARR, just like Alexander is for HW. It doesn't need to be updated, the mechanics are designed to challenge you and yes, if you don't know what the hell you are doing, there are plenty of mechanics that will get you killed, although there aren't that many that are insta-kills. If you just want story, go unsynced and do the few mechanics needed to clear each fight, and once you actually learn how to do a fight you will realize that very few of them are truly hard when you understand what needs to be done. The gear is still good for people who have classes and jobs below 60, is good for the new jobs releasing in the next expansion, and is good for glamour. Additionally, there are orchestrion rolls and aetherstones for making glamors. There is no reason to waste resources updating content that has served its purpose, and continues to serve a purpose in current content as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
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04-25-2017, 07:40 AMVaerBoth adds have to be killed around the same time, once one of them dies the other one will immediately head for the egg and is uncontrollable and attempt to merge. Cube takes less physical damage and sphere takes less magical damage. Not a big deal anymore since DPS should be through the roof unsync anyway. After that, you need to be in melee range to damage the egg. The boss will come back and you can probably faceroll the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
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04-25-2017, 07:40 AMThirdChild_ZKIT11 is one of the turns I warn people all the time can't simply be overgeared. Mechanics still apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
During add phase, the cube is physical resistant (less so now that it doesn't matter), and the sphere is magic resistant. The cube has less HP, so it can die faster. Both the cube and sphere need to die at roughly the same time (this was something first experienced in T1 with the split snakes), or the remaining one tries to merge with the egg and will take on its properties. The egg freely moves counter clockwise around the room, and needs to be kept away from the cube or sphere. Once both are down, attack the egg, but it can ONLY be damaged from melee range (even if a BRD/MCH, even if a caster).
During this a T9 style Thunder aoe will be placed on a player and that person needs to clear away from the group or risk hitting and paralyzing others. And there will be line aoes to dodge as well.
Many of these mechanics, as I said before, are being reused even in normal content now. It was only T11 that severely punished you for failing them, both then and now. -
04-25-2017, 07:41 AMViduI can see two scenarios here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
1) It was simply a bug that shouldnt have happend - that wouldnt require nerfing the fight but fixing that bug
2) If two of the adds touch and one consumes the other one the one that remains gets huge buffs - more HP, more defense, regen... I dont remember all of them. Its getting really, really difficult to kill it at that point, which is why you always want to make sure to keep them apart from each other. If thats what happend: You failed a mechanic and got punished for that. You can wipe in level 60 content if you dont do mechanics correctly aswell - why should they be removed in any content thats below 60? Should we remove mechanics in Sastasha too?
-> after a timer runs out, Kalia will cast "nerve gas" (...or was it nerve cloud...), another mechanic that deals damage based on how much HP the adds have left still (if you havent killed all of them, it used to be an insta-wipe) and puts a vul-stack on everyone. (We used to deal with this by shielding everyone) - so if thats what happend: its supposed to be a dps-check, not an insta-wipe. You can now survive that, if you fail to make the DPS-check.
What do you mean with "locked up the entire instance"? I dont really understand what thats supposed to mean? Did it stay sealed even after you wiped or what? Did the boss freeze and didnt do anything anymore? If you just couldnt kill the remaining add - well, to bad for failing a mechanic. Sorry to break it to you: Not everything is faceroll easy - and it shouldnt be.
I hope you dont mind me saying this but you dont seem to have the mind of someone who should raid - you failed a mechanic and your approach isnt "Okay, we wiped, why did that happen and how can we avoid it the next time? What did we do wrong? How are we supposed to handle this?" but instead its "OMG WE COULDNT FACEROLL! NERF! NERF!"
If you cant handle a challenge and mechanics: Stay out of content that is challenge and mechanics. -
04-25-2017, 07:59 AMSilverquickYeah yeah I get it you're like totally awesome... there... your customary ego feeding... so you can feel good about yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
Now back to reality...
Honestly I don't know... Nothing happen... we were stuck there... nothing moved... nothing destroyed us...
Either the mechanic is broken if it can't kill you... (which is probable given we were level i240)...
Or... *shock*.. *boggle*
The content was not designed to be run at level 60. Ergo... you probably need to be 50th level or things like that will happen...
And WHY is it incredibly difficult to run it at 50th level?
Whoa!! DuDE!! No one queues for it so you can't get a full 8 man group... what a frigging concept... one would think this is easy to understand...
So either make it level 50 appropriate... for THIS day and age... or bump it up to level 60 so we can get queues again...
You know... like the ones in Alexander... Void Ark... Mhach... Dun Scaith.... heck even Crystal Tower...
Then one MIGHT just be able to do it normally without it hosing up like that. -
04-25-2017, 08:06 AMViduDoing this content "normally" aka "how it was supposed to be" is: Get a full team of people who know each other and who know the strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
Seriously, stop blaming you being level 60 for you failing mechanics - if you dont know how to handle them unsychd, what makes you believe you'd be better off doing this content "normally" on level 50 when you cant handle it at level 60?
Yes, doing this fights at level 60 breaks them - but guess what: YOU choose to do that :O
The devs have given you the means to break and destroy this content for yourself. If you do that - thats your choice. It doesnt even make the content unplayable - it just changes mechanics in a way and you need to learn how to handle those changes - or, in your case, how to handle mechanics at all.
Btw - I tried to do T11 myself with a bunch of firsttimers who ignored any mechanic-advice I gave them. We kinda managed to get three out of 7 people through the add-phase alive. Nothing froze for us. Instanced didnt break. Nothing went invulnerable when it wasnt supposed to be. Nothing, that should have wiped us, didnt wipe us... so... you might have just expereciend a bug or something like that *shrug*
Yes, the reason people dont queue for this is that the content is difficult. Nothing wrong with difficult content. Are you also upset that its most likely useless to queue up for A12S?
MAKE a full 8-man-group yourself. Find like minded people! Create a LS with people who'd like to dedicate an evening to do this content. Dont expect the game to hand everything to you on a silverplate... -
04-25-2017, 08:10 AMaleph_null
Some of the hardest contents in this game aren't really meant for DF (look at alex savage for example), coil was such content for lv 50. The devs put everything other than the latest raid tier into DF, after nerfing some of the mechanics, but some floors don't outright become faceroll after the nerf. Some of the floors are outright impossible to clear without hours of practice (see a8s), which is why I hope they'd put all raid contents in RF since there are separate queues for practice and clear, but that's a separate discussion. They're incredibly difficult to run at lv 50 because they were meant to be the most challenging contents at the time. Coils and alex savage are completely different type of contents from dungeons, normal mode raids and 24 man raids. They are/were meant to be difficult.
Generally the devs don't seem to want to put much effort into outdated contents. As I've mentioned in a previous post some lv 50 ex trials would trigger instant wipe mechanics due to excessive dps, and sometimes you really need to stop attacking and stand still for a while just to avoid that, which clearly is a bad design for a game that allows overgearing. You just need to find a way to work around the mechanics. -
04-25-2017, 08:43 AMVaerGoing by your posts, I'm guessing the hard enrage doesn't do enough damage (It's probably set to an unreachable HP number when content is current but since our HP is so high now it doesn't do enough damage) and the script stalls because your group should be dead. That should probably be fixed if that is the case to actually instantly wipe. I guess you got out by having your entire group dc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
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04-25-2017, 08:48 AMGemina
The reason why I personally would like for coils to remain relevant is because... well it's Bahamut. He's arguably square's most iconic summon and my all-time favorite. He gets more powerful in terms of lore with every FF installment, and he should never be able to be facerolled.
I haven't done this raid, and want to, but never wanted to do it unsynced. It is actually a relief that many posts in this thread have pointed out that there are still mechanics that cannot be ignored even if running unsynced with 60's at a high item level. -
04-25-2017, 09:16 AMHyoMinParkAbsolutely uncalled for. Do you think this sort of behavior is going to get people here to take you seriously and agree with you, much less the game's developers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
It's quite possible that some mechanics that could one-shot people "back in the day" can no longer do so because the maximum damage was set to 9,999. An example of this would be King Behemoth's Ecliptic Meteor in LotA. If you are a WAR with 10,000 or higher HP, you can survive that attack without having to stand behind the comets.Quote:
Now back to reality...
Honestly I don't know... Nothing happen... we were stuck there... nothing moved... nothing destroyed us...
Either the mechanic is broken if it can't kill you... (which is probable given we were level i240)...
Be that as it may, you could have just died and reset. Stepping into the center during the add phase will still kill you. Plus, I believe that phase is a DPS check, and if you don't meet it, the fight will still progress into the next phase. Although, as for what happens (massive damage or just instant death), I can't really say.
Even overgeared, Coil still has mechanics that can result in a wipe. Something that I rather enjoy because it means you still have to pay attention, and not just slam your face on the keyboard and clear it.
I mean, that makes sense. Considering Coil was designed to be, and released as, the raid tier when the level cap was 50, and the max item level you could have by the end of ARR was only i130. So it would make sense that level 60 players in i240+ gear will be OP for the content. However, that doesn't make some of the fights (or their mechanics) trivial. Ignore enough of them, and you can still wipe.Quote:
Or... *shock*.. *boggle*
The content was not designed to be run at level 60. Ergo... you probably need to be 50th level or things like that will happen...
I don't understand why the concept of "Use the Party Finder to get a group together" is such a foreign concept for people. That's what it's there for. Make use of it instead of just queuing via DF for content that others are not focused on running, and then complain when the queue doesn't pop. Want a faster queue? Use Party Finder.Quote:
And WHY is it incredibly difficult to run it at 50th level?
Whoa!! DuDE!! No one queues for it so you can't get a full 8 man group... what a frigging concept... one would think this is easy to understand...
If you want to be "level 50 appropriate", go grab some gear that just meets the minimum ilvl for each turn, and queue in (using that mystical thing called Party Finder to get your group together).Quote:
So either make it level 50 appropriate... for THIS day and age... or bump it up to level 60 so we can get queues again...
Redesigning Coil to be "level 60 appropriate" doesn't guarantee people will queue for it via Duty Finder anyway. Consider Thordan Ex and Sephirot Ex before the Raid Finder was introduced. DF queues took forever because those fights were not easily PUG-able. And really, they still aren't, but to a lesser degree than before. So, people would just put up Party Finders instead. If Coil was redesigned, it could very well be the same, considering that it was designed to be the Alexander Savage of ARR.
(Even with all the current Savage raids and Ex primals in DF--excluding Zurvan--people still tend to use Party Finder anyways.)
Considering all of those are, in some way, used for current end-game progression (gear augmentation and relic quest, specifically), it would make sense that people are queuing up for them. Alexander gives i250 gear for those that just want to bridge the gap between a lower ilvl and a (semi) more current one, and some of the stats on the Prototype Alexandian gear are better than Shire. Void Ark, Weeping City, and Dun Scaith are all required to get the items you need to augment Shire gear, and Dun Scaith drops i260 gear. Crystal Tower is used for the weekly "Gift of the Archmagus" quest to give you an Aether Oil if you don't want to spend 700 Lore on it. And those are used for the 210-230 Anima step.Quote:
You know... like the ones in Alexander... Void Ark... Mhach... Dun Scaith.... heck even Crystal Tower...
Compare these to Coil, and you don't really have a ground to stand on, because it's not a fair comparison. Coil is not used for current progression, but for other reasons such as Poetic bonus, glamour, the amazing story, tank mount farming, or just to challenge yourself. People are less likely to spend time focusing on that, and more time focusing on gearing up for Stormblood. Especially with the release date being less than two months away. -
04-25-2017, 09:19 AMSenorPattyThat's what makes it so great. Cuz even when you complete it the first time unsynched, you still can feel some sort of accomplishment and at the same time find a new level of respect for anyone that cleared it the first time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
I can't name any names but I still want to give a shoutout to this SCH-mentor too at that- on my server, who stuck it out with me and explained the mechs with me and a few others as we did t5-t13 together. The learning experience was fun and so was the story to boot. -
04-25-2017, 09:30 AMMasekase_HurricaneI am guessing you were still getting some sort of heals, as we did the fight last night and we wiped eventually. As for the mechanics they are easily figured out due to the echo and being unsynced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
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04-25-2017, 11:51 AMBloody
Dude...this typing...I can't... even.....
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04-25-2017, 01:23 PMSilverquickYeah no... Don't even go there... he's the one who started in with his "You're not uber enough" bs...Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Yeah back in like, the day and stuff, this might have been something "uber" but now... its errm... like 50th level... yeah yesterdays news.
This has nothing to do with any kind of uber... it has to do with the fact you can't que for this one and do it normally anymore.
If it were either updated with level 60 gear, and the challenge level upgraded appropriately you might see people start doing it again. Or just drop it down to the normal 50th level content as its not relevent as some kind of uber top level raid anymore... so... no one does it.
Ergo... if you really want to do this, you're not going to be able to do it in the normal way anymore.
Ie, I just queue up for Alex, or Dun... and hey I'm in. Can't do that with this one until they either upgrade it... or downgrade it...
Take your choice, because right now its neither one... and it sure the heck isn't the top grade raid anymore. -
04-25-2017, 01:42 PMSettiesamaAt the start, you couldn't just 'queue up' for Coils without having a full party pre-made anyway. Only when the content was old did they put it on DF for solo queue. Even then, chances to clear it when on DF was almost zilch, especially when it came to the likes of T9.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
The main reason people don't queue for it now on DF is mainly that same reason, joining a bunch of random people for an almost certain wipe. Why risk the time and pain of trying to do content like that when you can just go in pre-made like it was originally intended and also at a much higher level to reduce the time spent? -
04-25-2017, 01:47 PMSilverquickYeah I tried that, but as you can see the insta kill mechanics just broke it, and stranded us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Settiesama
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04-25-2017, 01:50 PMSettiesamaBroke and stranded how exactly? It's perfectly fine the way it is now, as long as you follow mechanics still it's still perfectly fine. Fighting Bahamut Prime is still fun even at 60.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
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04-25-2017, 01:52 PMHyoMinPark
Please read my post again, because it seems like you failed to understand most of it.
Coil is not the current Raid tier. It was designed for ARR when the level cap was 50 and your gear item level was much lower, not for Heavensward or Stormblood. So of course it will be easier to do today unsync'd with higher gear, and of course it "isn't the top grade Raid anymore," but there are still some fights and mechanics that aren't trivial no matter what your level is. Just a few weeks ago there was a thread asking devs to either nerf T9 or remove it from WT. Because people seem to think you can faceroll it when you cannot, and I like that it is still challenging even at level 60.
If you want to run this content sync'd down to level 50/minimum ilvl, use Party Finder to find people that, like you, would like to run Coil sync'd. Just know that it will still have the echo buff, and may still be missing core mechanics back from when it was the current tier. If you want a real "uber" challenge, then why don't you try Second Coil of Bahamut Savage as well, sync'd down with a group. And I'm sure the reason Coil was nerfed so much is probably because people complained about it being "too hard." Just like they complain about everything else being "too hard."
I don't know any other way to say that Alexander and Dun Scaith are used for current, end-game progression, where as Coil is not. Coil is now used as a way to get Wonderous Tails stickers, or a quick unsync'd clear run-through with newbies for bonus poetics. It is also used for glamour, tank mount farms, and for aetherstones/orchestrion rolls. And of course, the story. But even still, it isn't that surprising that a Duty Finder queue may never pop. And comparing it to content that is 1.) used for current progression, and 2.) not even that dated (Dun Scaith is only a couple months old) is not a fair comparison.
The devs don't need to do anything to Coil. As much as I would like for it to be restored to its original difficulty, or at the very least give an option to run it without the massive Echo buff, it's unlikely to happen. Because the developers are more focused on developing content for 4.0, not upgrading/downgrading older content. I guarantee you once Stormblood is out and people start getting to level 70 and geared, the same thing will happen to Alexander. And the Void Ark 24-mans.
Which brings me back to the Party Finder. Want to run Coil as sync'd down as you can? Then make a PF. I promise you it's not that hard. And it's even easier now than it would have been before cross-world PF was a thing. So take some initiative, and make a PF. Trust me, if you tried pugging sync'd T5, T9, or T13, I highly doubt the majority of the runs would end in a clear. Because people just want to Zerg everything, rather than actually do more than press 1-2-3.
And I still stand by what I said earlier: if you want to challenge yourself at your current gear/item level, try two-manning T5 or T13, and then come back and tell us how easy it was. -
04-25-2017, 01:57 PMBaci
Easy Solution. Git gud
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04-25-2017, 02:16 PMSilverquickWell if you missed it you should read back through the posts... I detailed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Settiesama
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04-25-2017, 02:16 PMkattzkitti
Considering I could solo some turns in just i230 gear as a WHM, and many other turns could be handled in duo with a friend on their even lesser geared DRK... and this being back when I didn't even know how to play the game very well. As many others have said, improve yourself and stop crying for nerfs.
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04-25-2017, 02:23 PMSettiesamaI've read through it, and not seen any real logical problems, rather than you just whinging because you want insta-queues and what you can't have anymore. The content was designed for pre-made, it was designed for statics. Open DF didn't come until much later in the life of Coils, and even then the queues were incredibly slow because hardly anyone did it that way. Level 60 should not just make old content instant clears, despite the rewards at the end. People clear for different reasons, and they still have mechanics to teach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
If you want to do the content the way it was originally intended anyway, you're out of luck. Even synced, echo still ruins that for ya. -
04-25-2017, 02:26 PMkattzkittiBear in mind that the minimum ilvl option is lower than what people would have gone into a piece of content with at the time it was current. So the experience even with the forced Echo would probably still be right around what it was (ignoring the aforementioned nerfs to mechanics and such, of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by Settiesama
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04-25-2017, 02:29 PMSettiesamaTrue, could always go with the bare minimum ilvl gear for that too, about as close as you'd get to the old feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by kattzkitti
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04-25-2017, 02:41 PMLunarEmerald
It's only instant death if you aren't doing the mechanic correctly.
People managed to do it at level 50 because they followed mechanics. -
04-25-2017, 02:47 PMSilverquickHuh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Settiesama
Where did you come up with that...
You said... "you can just go in pre-made like it was originally intended and also at a much higher level to reduce the time spent?"
I said... "Yeah I tried that, but as you can see the insta kill mechanics just broke it, and stranded us"
You said.... "Broke and stranded how exactly? It's perfectly fine the way it is now, as long as you follow mechanics still it's still perfectly fine. Fighting Bahamut Prime is still fun even at 60."
I said... "You should read back through the thread, I detailed it"
The instakill mechanic hosed up and wasn't powerful enough to kill us, so it locked up and stranded us there... doing exactly what you just claimed would be just fine... ie... going in at level 60.