EU Confirmed as 3rd Rate Customer

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

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It's not the same at all, you're just deflecting and deliberately ignoring the very valid concerns raised. European servers were only added after a lot of European players decided to settle down on North American servers. You are literally expecting European players to sacrifice an incredible amount for very little in return. It would be a completely different scenario if European players were allowed to transfer from North American servers to European servers and not lose out on their in-game acquisition such as player housing and gil. That isn't the case, though - and that's without factoring in the social connections left behind.

So, yes, I will quite rightly call out anyone making it seem like European players are wholly to blame when the larger picture isn't even being taken into consideration. Bear in mind that European players were also treated as an afterthought in regards to the campaign associated with the maid/butler attire as well. So there are multiple reasons for European players to feel like they're not getting a fair deal.

What I will say, however, is that this thread could and should have been made to be more constructive. The OP does himself and his cause no favours by not expanding on the situation.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Why would you even expect to get a good ping on NA servers or even expect it to stay decent?

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i am playing on an EU server since i started in 2.0.

however, it made no difference as a EU or NA player to play on an EU or NA server, before they moved the EU servers to europe, since both NA and EU servers were located in america. when they moved the EU servers to europe, they offered a free transfer for all the NA players who were playing on the EU servers because of the increased ping. however, EU players who were playing on NA servers didn't get a free transfer, since nothing changed for them. so it's likely they are playing since this day on the NA servers.

sure, it's their own fault to play on the NA servers, when there are labeled servers for EU players. but same could be said about the NA players who were playing on the EU servers. the NA players on EU servers maybe didn't deserved the free transfer in the first place, but they got one. and since the NA players who didn't deserved the free transfer got the free transfer, the EU players who don't deserve the free transfer deserve a free transfer too.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Yet the NA players who chose to be on Ragnarok back then for timezone or friendship reasons were bailed out by the free transfer. What about all of the people who joined after 2.0 hit, but before the mythical EU datacentre ever came to be? They were actively being advised to join NA servers 'because there's no real difference' on these official forums for a very long time, and no mods ever jumped in and said that was bad advice because until the EU datacentre was formally announced very few people believed that it was really coming. S-E has acknowledged that the lag will increase for players outside NA, therefore the decision to play on a NA server has a different meaning now than it did back then.

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Not sure about players saying this, but SE said numerous times that the EU servers will offer better pings than NA and JP servers.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

European servers were only added after a lot of European players decided to settle down on North American servers.

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There might of not been a EU data center but there was always servers designated as EU servers which those were the ones that where later moved to a actual data center in the EU. So actually most the blame does lay with the consumer for choosing which server they joined. Unless they were legacy but then again there still able to transfer to server of their choosing from 1.0 with in a certain time frame. I did it myself as one of my alts was placed a JP server which I used the free 1.0 to 2.0 transfer to move my alt to my mains NA server.

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Originally Posted by Tint

i am playing on an EU server since i started in 2.0.

however, it made no difference as a EU or NA player to play on an EU or NA server, before they moved the EU servers to europe, since both NA and EU servers were located in america. when they moved the EU servers to europe, they offered a free transfer for all the NA players who were playing on the EU servers because of the increased ping. however, EU players who were playing on NA servers didn't get a free transfer, since nothing changed for them. so it's likely they are playing since this day on the NA servers.

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EU server was located in Canada as far as I remember. I was on Sargantanas and here in the UK it made a big difference for me on fights like Titan,Lev etc. Only reason I remained on there after 1.0 is I missed out on the free 5 days and as others pointed out I too made friends on there.

Although due to family reasons I left the game for a year and a half and when I came back there was an EU data centre, so with most of my friends having left the game I decided to transfer to Ragnarok.

But those issues were my own fault not SE.

There was no free transfer from NA to EU servers because EU players who were currently playing on a NA server would see absolutly no change. Chaos servers moving to Germany absolutly didn't affect them whatsoever. Sure, if they actually moved to Chaos, their ping would likely be reduced, but that's not a reason for SE to offer them a free transfer. The goal of the server relocation was to improve the experience of EU players playing on "EU" servers already. EU players who choose to play on NA servers weren't the target of that relocation. Besides, it was their choice not to follow official recommendation, and their choice to ignore the future possibility of server moving (it's not the fault of SE if people had poor forseeing abilities and didn't know that server merging, relocating and whatnot are pretty common in MMOs).
Anyway, EU players playing on NA servers didn't see anything changing for them, so no free transfer for that way.
However, NA players on EU servers would see a significant ping increase because of EU servers relocation. So a free transfer was put in place.

Now, NA servers are being relocated somewhere in NA. The ping increase that some people may see is balanced with the ping reduction others will get. Besides, -except if a large portion of NA players get an awful route which leads to big ping increase,- the change shouldn't be as significant as relocating a datacenter to the other side of the planet. So, a free transfer is completly useless in this case.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

There might of not been a EU data center but there was always servers designated as EU servers which those were the ones that where later moved to a actual data center in the EU. So actually most the blame does lay with the consumer for choosing which server they joined.

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At launch, there was no indication that the servers located on the EU "datacenter" would ever be moved to an actual datacenter located in the EU. There was no reason for me to create a character on the "EU" servers.
Since I moved to XIV from playing another MMO on its NA servers (TERA, playing on NA since the EU publishers were absolutely trash), I decided to make a character on Sargatanas, along with a few people I played TERA with.

At some point before 2.2, I found out that Balmung ended up being the unofficial RP server. Since I used to play on an RP server in WoW, and I really enjoyed the atmosphere of a busy RP server (Balmung had not yet reached its current popularity, back then), I decided to create a character there. Eventually moving my main there, since there was still no indication that the EU servers were going anywhere.
The announcement of the physical datacenter didn't come until 1.5 years after that. Note: this was also a year after the introduction of privately owned housing.

If a EU player decided to start on a NA server right now, then yes, most of the blame lays with them. However, you can't lay the blame on any EU players that started out way before there was even a hint of a physical EU datacenter.

That said, ping for EU players will only noticeably increase if they decide to move the NA datacenter to the west coast, and SE has been pretty hush-hush when it comes to where their new NA datacenter will be.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

At launch, there was no indication that the servers located on the EU "datacenter" would ever be moved to an actual datacenter located in the EU. There was no reason for me to create a character on the "EU" servers.

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This person said it pretty well

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Originally Posted by Fyce

EU players who choose to play on NA servers weren't the target of that relocation. Besides, it was their choice not to follow official recommendation, and their choice to ignore the future possibility of server moving (it's not the fault of SE if people had poor forseeing abilities and didn't know that server merging, relocating and whatnot are pretty common in MMOs).

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Originally Posted by Lexia

This person said it pretty well

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Can you show me how many big MMOs have moved a datacenter to a different continent, post-launch?

It's not nearly as common as the quoted person seems to imply. XIV is probably one of the first that I've seen doing this, since other MMOs generally just open up new servers in a different area. So for example, a different company wouldn't move Chaos to the EU, they'd just make an entire new set of servers located in the EU, with a new name. There's no such thing as "poor foreseeing abilities" when it comes to something as uncommon as a server relocation.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Can you show me how many big MMOs have moved a datacenter to a different continent, post-launch?

It's not nearly as common as the quoted person seems to imply. XIV is probably one of the first that I've seen doing this, since other MMOs generally just open up new servers in a different area. So for example, a different company wouldn't move Chaos to the EU, they'd just make an entire new set of servers located in the EU, with a new name. There's no such thing as "poor foreseeing abilities" when it comes to something as uncommon as a server relocation.

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It doesn't change the fact that you had absolutly no reason to choose a NA recommended server instead of a EU labeled one.
In fact, timezones alone are a good enough argument to join the officially recommended servers.

Don't put that one on SE. It's your decision only.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

It doesn't change the fact that you had absolutly no reason to choose a NA recommended server instead of a EU labeled one.
In fact, timezones alone are a good enough argument to join the officially recommended servers.

Don't put that one on SE. It's your decision only.

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It changes a whole lot, though you and the handful of other posters parroting the same comebacks are simply being stubborn. Clearly it isn't an issue you care very much for, so one has to wonder why you're even posting if you're not bothering to consider the bigger picture. You're very welcome to contest the list of individual points raised by various posters - myself included - throughout the thread. As it stands, you're just pointing fingers and claiming that European players are utterly to blame. Which is a rather bizarre stance to take.

Well, NA people joined datacenter labeled for EU.. AND got free transfer out of it.

I don't see what harm it'd cause if they'd give free transfer to EU server now that NA server is moving.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Well, NA people joined datacenter labeled for EU.. AND got free transfer out of it.

I don't see what harm it'd cause if they'd give free transfer to EU server now that NA server is moving.

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Let's not forget that Japanese and North American players received an excellent deal when it came to the maid/butler promotion whilst European players did not. That European players aren't prone to being overlooked or handed a raw deal by comparison to their North American and Japanese counterparts is something many in this thread would do well to bear in mind. Especially those that are seeking to pin the blame on European players completely.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It changes a whole lot, though you and the handful of other posters parroting the same comebacks are simply being stubborn. Clearly it isn't an issue you care very much for, so one has to wonder why you're even posting if you're not bothering to consider the bigger picture. You're very welcome to contest the list of individual points raised by various posters - myself included - throughout the thread. As it stands, you're just pointing fingers and claiming that European players are utterly to blame. Which is a rather bizarre stance to take.

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I'm only pointing a finger at EU players who choose a NA labeled server for not apparent reason, and are now blaming SE for not offering them a free transfer, even though their experience absolutly didn't change at all.
I am an european player myself. One of the vast majority who made a smart choice. And I already explained everything in my previous post... but since you probably didn't read it, here we go again:

- NA player on EU server (ping increase after servers relocation): makes sense to offer a free transfer (EU->NA) after Chaos got moved in Germany since that player would've had a worse experience if s/he stayed on the same EU server.
- EU player on NA server (same ping after servers relocation): Chaos moving to Germany has no impact on that player, since that player isn't on Chaos. Chaos was officially recommended for EU player for sharing timezones between players, and because it had supposedly better routing from Europe. That player made the choice to ignore these two relevant points.
- NA player on NA server (same ping after servers relocation): nothing happens. And now, NA servers will be moved to another NA location. No need to transfer anyone.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Let's not forget that Japanese and North American players received an excellent deal when it came to the maid/butler promotion whilst European players did not. That European players aren't prone to being overlooked or handed a raw deal by comparison to their North American and Japanese counterparts is something many in this thread would do well to bear in mind. Especially those that are seeking to pin the blame on European players completely.

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Well, japan is a single country, pretty easy to do events. NA was probably easy to sey up do to similarity in laws to events or company policies or what have you. EU seems like a much bigger m3ss to deal wi5h 2hen an event isnt set for one or two countries, winc3 you hav3 5o abide by all laws for every country participating

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Well, NA people joined datacenter labeled for EU.. AND got free transfer out of it.

I don't see what harm it'd cause if they'd give free transfer to EU server now that NA server is moving.

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Does it really matter if they have free transfers? It would still have the liminations of the paid version. With that said would you still transfer? But let me guess that be SE's fault also?

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Originally Posted by Fyce

I'm only pointing a finger at EU players who choose a NA labeled server for not apparent reason

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I stated my reasons in my previous post. While they might not seem good enough for you, that doesn't invalidate them. Another reason to add is that I'm usually awake during midnight/morning, so those recommended EU time zones don't do much for me, to begin with. Then again, I'm not complaining about a free transfer, even if something like that would be the most fair way to go about it.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

- NA player on EU server (ping increase after servers relocation): makes sense to offer a free transfer (EU->NA) after Chaos got moved in Germany since that player would've had a worse experience if s/he stayed on the same EU server.
- EU player on NA server (same ping after servers relocation): Chaos moving to Germany has no impact on that player, since that player isn't on Chaos. Chaos was officially recommended for EU player for sharing timezones between players, and because it had supposedly better routing from Europe. That player made the choice to ignore these two relevant points.
- NA player on NA server (same ping after servers relocation): nothing happens. And now, NA servers will be moved to another NA location. No need to transfer anyone.

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It's clear that you've never heard of the terms "East coast" and "West coast". If the servers are moved to the West coast, it'll definitely increase the ping for both EU players on NA servers and East coast players on NA servers.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Let's not forget that Japanese and North American players received an excellent deal when it came to the maid/butler promotion whilst European players did not. That European players aren't prone to being overlooked or handed a raw deal by comparison to their North American and Japanese counterparts is something many in this thread would do well to bear in mind. Especially those that are seeking to pin the blame on European players completely.

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for crying out loud you're still on that? Maybe not I but you should do some educational research, because you would find out that the promotions that were offered, needed to be based on the law's of these countries/regions and not on SE's mood that day.

There's also a reason people in australia are excluded most of the times when it comes to promotional campaigns via virtual platforms. And you'll see these people constantly blame the company behind it instead of looking up why these kind of promotions can not be applied as is compared to other countries. I don't support it but that's sadly the facts and how it goes throughout most platforms.

Let me repeat myself again, after reading the comment made by Anzaman. To that time the data center was located on the same continent as the NA data center. As the EU data center moved to Germany (different continent) NA players got offered a free transfer, and not because of the ping... (i swear if someone uses that word again), there was a massive issue with the connection/routing and accessing the servers due to our horrible internet providers. While there was a small ping increase (complete different subject), it was and still is not relevant, lots of people would have stayed if our routing to Germany would have been better in comparison to montreal (which is even worse in most cases).

This time the NA data center is being moved to a different region but the same continent, and that's the whole point right here. Anything else is irrelevant, because your routing will be the same from europe to the new data center then it has been prior. If it would be moving half across the globe and become a problematic in itself's, I could understand the outrage and disappointment about none existing free transfers, but that isn't the case.

To be honest, if someone would have stepped up and opened a topic with a plausible explanation, evidence and concerns about a move of NA data centers and the possibility of offering free transfer, to europeans, that are currently still playing on the NA data center itself, proper and accurate worded I and many other's would have supported that petition. Because nobody should have a gaming experience like this.

But coming to the forums opening a topic that starts with absolute wrong accusations right at the headline is not the way to go, followed up by comments that were intentionally placed as a trigger to the NA community, in the hopes that the topic will be labeled "as more important" then others and maybe be seen by moderators, is something I don't and can't support because it's not just wrong but plain out ridiculous. I am still waiting for the person that throws the words "discrimination, racism and fraud/scam" in the mix, even tho it has nothing to do with it, but mostly used when topics like this one opens up.

The problem here is the situation is completely different situation. It's apple and oranges. During the EU move it was a completely drastic change. There was only 2 data centers. NA and JP so moving to EU is a HUGE move. It was obvious that those on the designated EU server would be affected so there was the option to transfer out. The NA servers are moving... to NA. There's no indication that it's moving across country or 10 miles in either direction. And now there is a place for you to go to if you are worried about your ping you have the option to go to EU if you feel IF it will affect you. So stop playing the victim and realize it's a fair move. It's not preferential treatment to one or the other.

My question is, how much will the ping really change (since the servers are still gonna be in the same continental region). I expect a minor increase as it is moving south, but unless it gets a few more relay points added in to the route, I don't think it will be going up that much.

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Originally Posted by Bloody

My question is, how much will the ping really change (since the servers are still gonna be in the same continental region). I expect a minor increase as it is moving south, but unless it gets a few more relay points added in to the route, I don't think it will be going up that much.

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It's moving over 1,500 miles further away from the EU, with the network traffic now passing through the US infrastructure (which is garbage compared to the rest of the world, btw). There's going to be a very significant increase in EU player latency, and their gameplay will suffer for it.

As an NA player, I'm actually quite disappointed with how Squeenix is handling this.

Well at least NA and EU people have official servers they can argue over.... -_-'

If EU = 3rd rate, what in the world do Oceania and SEA people rate on this scale.

Like others have pointed out, this topic is beside out of line with the title and accusations, pointless .
Grow up or try to make some research before making accusations.
See , in the real world every decision will have a following or more than one.

P.s LunaFaye nailed it , but it takes logic and reason to make a debate instead of crying and making false accusations.

So the NA region is getting a promotion which JP got first. EU may or may not get it, and may or may not have it available to all EU players. The title of this thread seems more and more accurate...

Knowing SE, they are going to promise an event for EU, then introduce the promotion in September, then just before the codes expire, they will send someone to share the bad news that most of the EU countries will not be getting the event....

Realy starting to get pissed off, by this behavior.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

It's moving over 1,500 miles further away from the EU

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As the location of the move has not being released to the public, please do tell us where this new NA Data Center is moving to with source to back up statement.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

So the NA region is getting a promotion which JP got first. EU may or may not get it, and may or may not have it available to all EU players. The title of this thread seems more and more accurate...

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Do you mean the Amazon Promo?
The fat chocobo mount was the same, in that NA Promotion is actually just in reality a United States Promo, Canada is rarely included in the so called "NA" promotions

Canada can still use Amazon.com and get items. As long as you have a NA account, you can use it.

God forbid SE should spend hundreds of thousands of £/$ etc to improve the vast majority of players gameplay, not once, but twice, but because you chose not to take them up on that kind outlay, that they should then choose not to plough more money into transferring those people for free that CHOSE from the beginning not to play on a server that was TAGGED AS BEING THEIR REGION.

Entitled much?

Choices have consequences, you made your choice, these are the consequences. Stop belly aching because SE aren't bending over to help you overturn those choices at their cost.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

So the NA region is getting a promotion which JP got first. EU may or may not get it, and may or may not have it available to all EU players. The title of this thread seems more and more accurate...

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Can't wait to likely miss out on these items thanks to some rubbish promo like before with the garbage magazine; all because SE doesn't know that the UK and EU has Amazon, too (they probably do know... probably... maybe?).

They managed to make such a mess of it before, so what're the chances they'll do it again? Besides, at no point did anyone stop the cumbersome mess that the EU version was before it went out - with that level of ignorance and non-caring, who is to say they even learned from it; who is to say they even acknowledged the 7 million page thread full of negative feedback on it!?

My favourite part will be the region-locking of individual parts of the EU, so when one country gets a bad deal like us Brits got - we won't be able to go with the better deal another country got. Why? Because reasons... illogical reasons.

EU players never got free transfers. Only NA players did. There was the choice of stay where we are or pay money to transfer while everyone else gets freebies. So much for bending over.

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Originally Posted by Aronys

EU players never got free transfers. Only NA players did. There was the choice of stay where we are or pay money to transfer while everyone else gets freebies. So much for bending over.

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My EU friends got the free transfer option when we moved from a Chaos server to Aether server.

Well, that then wasn't advertised, as this was the announcement: http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...447.1443077166

* The free World transfer service will not apply to characters moved from the Elemental, Gaia, Mana, Aether, or Primal data centers to the Chaos data center.

EDIT: Ok, misread your post.
Chaos is EU, Aether is NA. There were transfers from Chaos to Aether, and not to Chaos. So, EU players never got free transfers to the EU servers.

Following the reasons given for the previous free transfer when a datacenter moved :

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Because the Chaos data center is being relocated, certain players may find they are no longer playing on a desirable World. In order to address this issue, players will be allowed to transfer from Worlds within the Chaos data center to Worlds within the Elemental, Gaia, Mana, Aether, or Primal data centers free of charge for one week.

Residents in the North American region playing on the Chaos data center may begin to experience issues with latency after the transition. We ask that you try the game after the transfer, and if you experience connectivity issues disruptive to gameplay, consider using the free World transfer service while it is available.

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the same reasons can be applied to this datacenter move, and I don't see anything that makes this transfer different than the previous one, as long as it always is a datacenter being relocated.

It is not that a datacenter moves every day, and to give here a free transfer option too, isn't unreasonable. If SE afraid to lose the income from people jumping the free service for other reasons, they just have to put rules for it in order to make the service available to who really have issues with the move.

And after saying the above, no, I'll not agree with the OP, because his post is contradicting itself: he want play with friends but complain about no free transfer, but transfer means no more his friends. Unless they all were EU but made the very bad choice of playing on NA servers.

And no, as long as EU datacenter were moved in EU, I don't feel being 3rd rate. If I have to get a feel, it maybe is some envy against NA players that in previous relocation they done the same poor choice to play in EU servers, but got a free server jump anyway.

The thing that makes it different is the EU servers were located in NA and then moving move to a different region a actual EU location. With this the NA data center just being moved to different part of NA staying in the same region.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

The thing that makes it different is the EU servers were located in NA and then moving move to a different region a actual EU location. With this the NA data center just being moved to different part of NA staying in the same region.

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what has the region to do with the connection? the actual distance to the data center is what matters, and yoshi himself said:

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

We expect that the players most likely to experience a significant increase in ping times will be those in Europe playing on an NA data center World. We will be working hard to minimize the anticipated increases, but there is the chance that based on their location, some players may be more severely affected by this relocation than others.

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so he knows this will affect EU players not for the better. so why no free transfer?

edit:

i also want to point out that, regarding to the topic "EU Confirmed as 3rd Rate Customer", NA players (wich are 2nd Rate Customers behind JP, wich is also not okay) again get the campaign for the DLC items before the EU players. you know, the maid/butler and fat white chocobo and now the eastern stuff and cloud mount.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's not the same at all, you're just deflecting and deliberately ignoring the very valid concerns raised. European servers were only added after a lot of European players decided to settle down on North American servers.

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They were advertised as EU recommended servers since ARR Release with the exception of Ragnarok, which was created during the server merges for 1.20 and advertised as a EU recommended server.

So honestly, the recommended option has been in place since 1.20.


Personally I am not deflecting or ignoring what happened with the EU DataCenter move. As I feel, any player that wanted to transfer off Chaos should have paid for it period. Why? Because they knew they were the recommended EU Servers. Just like EU Players knew non-Chaos DC were NA Servers.

Those that feel this is not the case, simply ignored SE's recommendations. Right on the Character Creation Screen since 2.0 with (EU) tags.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/playguide/ps3/

PS3 Playguide still has the same images since ARR launch, minus when they added the DataCenter option at the Title screen. Which in the images you can clearly see there is no DataCenter under the Start Selection. However, upon server selection all the (NA) and (EU) tags were there.

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Originally Posted by Tint

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If they were going to offer free transfers they would of did it when they moved the EU servers. How long the new EU data center been around now, over a year? NA staying in NA for all we know the the new data center could be only 10 miles away from the current one.

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Originally Posted by LORD_METATRON

because i have friends in NA?

now im getting more ping

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They haven't moved the servers yet, how are you getting more ping?

Or do you mean you plan on getting more ping from the new location that SE won't disclose?

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Or do you mean you plan on getting more ping from the new location that SE won't disclose?

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Given their statement that EU players would have ping issues issues, that would indicate the servers are being moved further west, which doesn't quite say much given how I think nearly everything on the NA continent is west of where that datacenter is now.

Also, as a NA player on a EU server, I haven't had much issue with ping, but still feel like something should be done to better accommodate Aussie players.