Why are bad hunt behavior rewarded?

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Damn you guys are so selfish.

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Why? Hunts are first come first served content, it's really easy to understand this. The first group capable of killing the mark, can kill he mark if they want to. You have no entitlement at all to that mark if you're not there, or don't join in when it is attacked. The only selfishness is the one demanding that others delay their play to enable more free seals for low effort players.

Unless you have any kind of solid proof that this is something being done as griefing or some other violation to the terms of use laid out by Square Enix, there is nothing that warrants disciplinary action. As it is, hunts and other open world content is first come, first serve as stated by Square Enix. Even if "early pulling" is purposely being done against a person(s), if the content is open world, it still falls under first come, first serve and there may not be any grounds for griefing in the first place.

Even then, if you have proof that should warrant an investigation, the forums is not your go-to platform unless you're simply here to stir up trouble. Customer service or contacting a GM ingame is where you should be.

Advice: since they seem to be getting a kick out of generating salt, spread the word to cut back on sodium intake levels and stay hydrated. Usually, once people notice their tactics aren't as effective, they get bored and move on.

/post falls on deaf ears

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Ok so what you are missing here is that they don't even wait. They see a mob, they kill it. Just because it's fun for them to see the salt in shout.

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What do you want?

Your whole thread just comes across as whining.

Set out what it is you want to change in a clear statement and send it to Square in an email.

This isn't the place for it.

For what it's worth, OP, I agree with you. I think that's a really rude thing to do.

Just because something is "allowed" doesn't mean it's right.

How selfish of you to expect us to give up our time waiting 10 minutes for people in other zones to arrive on the scene and yell at us to wait for more. We definitely don't have anything else to get on with do we.

Edit: When exactly do you want the boss pulled? When you get there? When the entire server gets there? When just enough people are there that everyone only gets to attack once and gets no credit at all because it's dead?

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

How selfish of you to expect us to give up our time waiting 10 minutes for people in other zones to arrive on the scene and yell at us to wait for more. We definitely don't have anything else to get on with do we.

Edit: When exactly do you want the boss pulled? When you get there? When the entire server gets there? When just enough people are there that everyone only gets to attack once and gets no credit at all because it's dead?

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exactly you always will get the wait 1 min more bs anyways since i dont care anymore i get way more hunts in way less time but to keep it fair people can always join my Hunting LS but if you dont go out hunting you shouldn except much there at this way i keep the Leechers away which annoyd me too ever had to reinvite the same person over 8 times a day in less then 2h ? another annoying point (atleast in my opinion)

Lol @ Entire Thread.

Okay, so, first things first. Yes, it is rude to pull hunts as soon as you find them, but it is perfectly acceptable. Why? Because waiting to start any open-world content like hunts is a community created norm. Open-world content in any game has always been fair game with first come, first served. Because of the limited availability of hunt mobs, people who are more community-minded than individualist give others time to make it to the mob before they kill it. That's perfectly fine, and it's their choice of playstyle, just like those who pull as they find them. It's literally differing playstyles/opinions, just because it is generally considered rude doesn't make it bad behavior.

On the other hand: Specifically pulling immediately, or taking a mob and resetting it, for the purpose of "shits'n'giggles" as I call it (aka, salty chat, trolling, or similar behavioral reasons), is not only a no-go for the community at large, but also to my knowledge violates griefing policy. Get your screenshots, get it dealt with, and find a good hunt LS to help you make it to the hunts before the trolls get there. A good hunt LS is your best weapon to combat them.

Hunts are first come first serve. And it sounds like a world issue. I know famfrit had a similar problem until it got so bad everyone shunned that FC which forces their FC to leave the world due to their FC being on everyones blacklist.

Why exactly is it a 'problem'? The problem lies with people expecting the finders to waste their time waiting for people not even actively hunting, or in other zones at the time. For all we know, the group the OP is talking about are just pulling to save time to move onto the next Hunt, and the whole 'troll' debates in the shouts are probably just them laughing at the salt of those who only just entered the zone, crying out in shouts at how 'unfair' it was because they were doing other things.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Ok so what you are missing here is that they don't even wait. They see a mob, they kill it. Just because it's fun for them to see the salt in shout.

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You don't have to wait. You don't have to post the Mob either. If people do that its a friendly gesture nothing more because hunts are not designed to be a mass event. The only rude thing i see is that people demand that the finders have to wait at least 5-10 minutes until everyone arrives at this spot.

It's not really against any rule, just poor etiquette.

Rude? Absolutely..
Obligated to wait for stragglers? Nah.. It's an open world mob. People are going to pull.

What is "on time" for some people is still going to be "early" for others.

Again, it's not a problem or rude. It's wasting peoples time in demanding they wait for others that's rude. If they want to wait, that's just a decency. Not waiting is just them wanting/needing to be elsewhere, or trying to hunt quickly and they happened on it first.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

On Ragnarok there's a whole FC having fun fast pulling all the NM to troll all the other player, and while no measure can be taken against them, we can be reported if we reset the NM to help people coming for it.
I think you guys have the idea of good behavior wrong.

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that is how hunts truely are suppose to work. People choose to wait, in no measure were they forced to. Which is why fast pulling doesn't exist. The shout/wait mantra was the community being nice. If their is an fc who can kill the hunts, they are free to do so, and not bad behavior.

resetting a hunt, is bad behavior as it resets progress and trolls the group as their contribution is set to 0 and get no reward. Pretty much it is a dick move.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

For what it's worth, OP, I agree with you. I think that's a really rude thing to do.

Just because something is "allowed" doesn't mean it's right.

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that was SE vision for hunts. to have a fc or group kill it, not wait around.

I kind of wish they'd have HP/level scaling on the ARR S rank hunts like Odin does so that they don't melt as quickly as they do.

Technically it doesn't violate any rules of policies, unless of course they announce they are doing it to piss people off. If people in the zone announce they are on their way and they go ahead and kill it anyway, that is just rude and disrespectful. Unfortunately that is how people are in this day and age, they have no respect for their fellow players. We live in a generation where everyone wants instant gratification. People can't seem to wait 3 min for others to join. I wouldn't take it too personally Arutan, people are just impatient jerks. I remember years ago when MMO communities were full of patient, helpful players. There are still people like that, my wife and I for example, but it's getting to where most people only care about themselves. It's like decency and compassion has been bred out of people. The world is a crappy place and people are crappy. My advice for you, don't become one of those people, do what you can to be a decent, respectful human being.

There are no rules about pulling open world mobs, and Yoshida himself has said that they're not going to be policing hunts.

@OP i am on Ragnarok and i was hunting the Last days. There will be always People they are Pulling and not Waiting, all you can do is Get into a Hunting Linkshell, Teleport immediately.

The Person which found the Hunt can do w/e he wants to. First Comes first thats the Rule. At the beginning of Heavensward you had to Hunt them by your Own, if u say this pace is fast, then you have no clue how fast it can be at the Moment hundreds of People Farming them.

1) Reduce your loading time to a Minimum. New Hardware?! Upgrade PS3 -> PS4
2) Hunt them by your own
3) Get into Hunting Linkshells

Arutan you is whats wrong in now days gaming. This is why we cant have nice things.stop being so selfish.
Harder and more interesting content? People like you cry and mane extra work for se.
Where is the problem i people pulling befor someon they dont Know got there.how they needd to kbow this?
Its an mmo not solo game.you dont like that some people do things faster that you dont play mmo play solo.

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Originally Posted by Nghthawk

You seem to be missing the point others have already responded back to you, anyone one at any time either alone or with a group of other players can attack any open world mob as they see fit. There is no such thing as early pulls

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There is indeed such a thing as early pulls, and people behaving the way described are jerks. It just so happen that being a jerk is not in and of itself breaking SE's rules.

I do miss the NM/HNM way of doing things from FFXI...can only imagine the amount of anger we'd have here if the claim system from there was here...

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Originally Posted by Ririta

I imagine that those people are mostly older MMORPG players who are used to the competition.

Back then there was no such thing as sharing rewards.

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On the contrary, on older games like EQ1 for instance, people use to shout in zone when they found a rare mob and group with each others to kill it.
Some even made "server call" to allow as much people as possible to benefit from the kill

And, even if it's not against the rule, it's called common courtesy to wait for people when a 72h mob pops or to let people know when you find a A rank in a zone, even if you don't need it.
But hey, courtesy nowaday...I men, why would people waist 5 minutes of their precious rushing time to wait for others ?
Those 5 minutes could be used to whine on forum that their is nothing to do anymore

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Originally Posted by Celef

On the contrary, on older games like EQ1 for instance, people use to shout in zone when they found a rare mob and group with each others to kill it.
Some even made "server call" to allow as much people as possible to benefit from the kill

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Sounds like Pre Kunark EQ1? I started in Luclin and my memories of EQ1 was it was a very cut throat game. Personal memories and memories from friends and others being trained and killed if another group decided they wanted the camp. Training if your group spawned a named to flat out risking being kicked out of a guild for sharing raid strats with others.

One story in particular comes to mind. Before the first server merger the server I played on was the last server in the game that didn't wake The Sleeper. It was an agreement between guilds that could do Sleepers Tomb to not wake him up. Since waking him up meant no more Primal Velium weapons would drop ever again. Well, one guild one day decided to break that agreement and woke him up just because they could. Which from how the server worked did have a lasting impact on the server short term since it set casual raid guilds, to up and coming raid guilds to even the advanced raid guilds progression back a few months till the Shaman version of Group Avatar became more easy to get. Until then, raid DPS were basically required to have Primal Velium for the Avatar proc.

This case is not so bad, worst yet are people that shout out (just the location) and within a minute or so it is already pulled. Like seriously why waste people's time who may be other side of map
only to arrive and everyone is teleporting out as it is clearly dead. There used to be a group on Leviathan (not naming them) which would always early pull OR reset the damn hunt for their friends when they would arrive.
I have lost many seals because of those jerks in the past as i am solo at times with my chocobo

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Originally Posted by Aylis

Sounds like Pre Kunark EQ1? I started in Luclin and my memories of EQ1 was it was a very cut throat game. Personal memories and memories from friends and others being trained and killed if another group decided they wanted the camp. Training if your group spawned a named to flat out risking being kicked out of a guild for sharing raid strats with others.

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Very much this! Especially mobs that were involved in epic weapon quests.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

Very much this! Especially mobs that were involved in epic weapon quests.

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DO NOT BRING BACK THE MEMORIES OF NATURE WALKERS SCIMITAR QUEST!!! PLEASE NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

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Originally Posted by Aylis

DO NOT BRING BACK THE MEMORIES OF NATURE WALKERS SCIMITAR QUEST!!! PLEASE NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

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LOL. Venril camping.... So wonderful......NOT.....

I had SK and Druid 2.0. Shaman and Beastlord 1.5. Multiple 1.0 weapons.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

LOL. Venril camping.... So wonderful......NOT.....

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I'm just going to go....cry softly in a corner now. >_> on top of "Oh hey! We see you attended a Plane of Growth raid with your guild! Enjoy spending weeks fixing your faction!" >_>

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Originally Posted by Aylis

I'm just going to go....cry softly in a corner now. >_> on top of "Oh hey! We see you attended a Plane of Growth raid with your guild! Enjoy spending weeks fixing your faction!" >_>

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Ahh the good old days of EQ. Too bad EQ next got scrapped.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

Ahh the good old days of EQ. Too bad EQ next got scrapped.

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Totally >< It was looking amazing and had some wonderful ideas then POOF gone.

Be happy you can at least hit it to get rewards outside of party. If my memory serves me, older games gave the loot to the pulling party and not anyone who whacked it. Having players scout spawn zones to get claim used to be a strategy.

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Originally Posted by Atlas-04

Be happy you can at least hit it to get rewards outside of party. If my memory serves me, older games gave the loot to the pulling party and not anyone who whacked it. Having players scout spawn zones to get claim used to be a strategy.

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I've seen a few games where pulling party only got the loot. WoW has since changed that and up to 23 people (IIRC) can get loot. In EQ, the person or group who did the most damage got the loot.

Why? Because the hunt is a bad system that was designed and handled poorly.

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Originally Posted by Bloody

Specifically pulling immediately, or taking a mob and resetting it, for the purpose of "shits'n'giggles" as I call it (aka, salty chat, trolling, or similar behavioral reasons), is not only a no-go for the community at large, but also to my knowledge violates griefing policy.

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Disruption of gameplay as far as policy with hunts only applies to players that are continually resetting the hunt mob.

Chat based outcomes can go into the realm of harassment for anyone involved.

If a Hunt LS continually pulls mobs immediately and shows no forms of harassment. There is no policy violation.

A GM makes the determination if a group is continually harassing and/or Disrupting Gameplay. In other words "griefing". Case by case situation.

This is why generally, if someone/or a group pulls, most other players within the area join the fight to at least get a reward. As there is nothing restricting them from engaging the mob.

I have to side with the fc here only because the OP is being aggressive and that makes me feel like we are getting only half the story.

Its easy to talk about that "troll fc" not waiting for slow entitled players. And people who hunt know that a lot of hunt monsters have to be spawned. Is the FC in question going to the trouble to spawn these things? Did you or others help spawn it or just let them do the work with the expectation of swooping in and getting a kill? How dare they not let you profit from their work. Such trolls.

If they are putting in the work they are entitled to the kill man. You are entitled to nothing. And I would go a step forward and guess their teasing is a result of irritation at othersmaking them put it the work without helping. That's only a guess though.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

What's the bad behaviour in question? Pulling an open world mob before someone unrelated is ready to engage it isn't against any rule.

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http://techdigg.com/wp-content/uploa...5927_670x0.jpg
you get my dislike button Hellluuuuuu

The entitlement in this thread is funny. Waiting for people to show is a nice and honorable thing but not doing so is in no violation of any rules. If a group is ready to pull and kill, it is their every right to go ahead.

Also I am not someone who pulls the mobs, I wait for people in LS and other groups to arrive. However I understand there is zero obligation to return that favor.

The question is: Do you go around and look for hunts or are you just waiting till someone calls it and go there?

I mean if you take your time and travel the world to find hunts and always get it snatched away by those FCs I could understand that it would become frustrating. But if you are doing other things and are only knowing about it because of LS calls..well I would say that maybe missing an hunt is the cost you have to pay for letting others do their work.

I for example dont really hunt actively. I am in a LS and if I feel like it, I might go to some hunts but mostly I am just there to post them myself if I randomly stumble about them. I wont complain that the hunt is down when I get there because I really did not put work into it anyway.

Also like others said: You could wait minutes till you attack and yet you will still have someone yelling in shout chat that people could not wait..how long should someone wait? Is five minutes not enough? If you care about it you will get to any place in 5 minutes, yet there are still people being rude afterwards because somehow they did not manage to go there in that time...at the same time the more people the less the chance to even get something..so I can understand people that are kind of not wanting to wait till everyone on the server is there. Especially if they were the ones that found it, maybe even actively looking for it for some time and yet might not even get something from it because its down in seconds.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

The question is: Do you go around and look for hunts or are you just waiting till someone calls it and go there?

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Neither really, my friends and I don't go actively looking in the sense of "lets do hunts tonight!" kinda deal. We more or less stumble into them while doing other things. So for us its more of a "Oh cool. Its a hunt thing, lets kill it" kinda deal. If one is announced typically we won't bother going to it at all. Just because its either dead by the time we get there anyway and we really don't wanna listen to the shout arguments that usually follow one.

What surprises me the most is, people still doing hunts.