Remember When Tanks Asked Before Large Pulls?

Just a byproduct of 'expert' dungeons continuously amounting to nothing more other than 3-4 trashes pack and then bosses, repeated ad nauseum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Or maybe I'm casting protect. It gets super annoying when a tank runs off, and then I have to cast it again.

---

Personnaly I don't care, "You don't want my Protect, fine, your problem not mine" ^^"
Trust me, it makes things easier to just....
http://66.media.tumblr.com/6037fea34...afe6o1_500.gif

(Sorry, had it in my mind from the moment i woke up, best cure is to pass it to someone else :p)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chocolys

From what I read on the forum, it seems healer now spent more time in Cleric stance than not and I even hear people saying some Tank can survive without heals in some dungeons. So that has clearly changed because before I quitted I don't know any dungeon where the tank could pull stuff and survive without any kind of healer.

---

It's true the dungeons are now easier than they were in 2.0, but even back then healers were expected to be DPSing as much as they are now. I remember I was expected to Holy in Brayflox, which you used as an example, and use Benediction to heal the tank as planned between the Holys (and Scholars were able to Lustrate in Cleric Stance in 2.0). It's in no way a new thing, these days it's just much easier for healers to DPS.

Because dungeons are nerfed down to stupidity mode. Looks at "Expert" roulette we have now. 1st day on 1st try huge pulls and mobs died in few secs. They have too low HP. This kind of easiness is boring. Dungeons used to be fun and challenging back in 2.X series. Now they are made for toddlers. I remember we wanted to get the new shiny tomestone gear to run the new dungeons more efficiently. Now we want the new tomestone gear for the skin and looks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

It's true the dungeons are now easier than they were in 2.0, but even back then healers were expected to be DPSing as much as they are now. I remember I was expected to Holy in Brayflox, which you used as an example, and use Benediction to heal the tank as planned between the Holys (and Scholars were able to Lustrate in Cleric Stance in 2.0). It's in no way a new thing, these days it's just much easier for healers to DPS.

---

Oh I did use benediction often but I did not really have the opportunity to plan for when. So maybe you have luck with being random matched with excellent tanks, but most of my runs as soon as tank had finished gathering the giant group of monsters, it would take almost less time to his HP to reach zero than the animation time of Holy xD.
Basically most of the times when the tanks stopped running and starting getting hit, If I had not both Divine Seal + Presence of Mind on me, Regen on the tank and me spamming Cure I and Cure II (sometimes even just cure II because cure I would not cut it) then the tanks would be dead. Any distraction from me for a second or two, and they would be dead. And to make it even more fun, sometimes I had to use Medicas because of DPS somehow getting dangerously low, or to get more regen power).

But that's how I like healer class, I want healing to be a fight in itself. For me if I have enough time to do DPS, that means something is wrong and the monsters do not hit hard/debuff enough. Said otherwise, DPS have DPS check, I want healer to have Heal Check where no time can be afforded to go DPSing.

I dunno man, these last few dungeons are just so ridiculously easy healing wise that I actually feel offended if a tank pulls small or ASKS before a pull...

Only all the pulls are enough pulls :> These dungeons are boring enough without tanks being unnecessarily cautious

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So basically, every fight is like a primal that takes a while to beat. Yeah no.

---

More like

Trash that requires the party to stun / silence a few of them or else they'll get decimated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katana190

The Vault says hi.

---

Aurum Vale returns the greet.

PS: those 3 dungeons are endgame ones, not levelling ones. Because then AV takes the cake for the hardest levelling dungeon ever. Vault is far easier in comparison.

PPS: Yes I was late at the reply.

It's funny to read people talking about Aurum Vale being a hard leveling dungeon. I never considered it a hard dungeon. Back in 2.0 for me the hard dungeon would be AK and its damn bees at the wall, or WP at the last boss. (I'm talking about the first times doing them and not after you get used to them)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Aurum Vale returns the greet.

PS: those 3 dungeons are endgame ones, not levelling ones. Because then AV takes the cake for the hardest levelling dungeon ever. Vault is far easier in comparison.

PPS: Yes I was late at the reply.

---

Except when you're a brand-new healer and, suddenly, someone whispers in your ear "sickness must be purged".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Aurum Vale returns the greet.

PS: those 3 dungeons are endgame ones, not levelling ones. Because then AV takes the cake for the hardest levelling dungeon ever. Vault is far easier in comparison.

PPS: Yes I was late at the reply.

---

Vault is in leveling roulette. it's a leveling dungeon. Vault is also required for story, AV is not. I seem to get vault every other day in leveling roulette. excuse me if i consider it a "leveling dungeon".

AV is a leveling dungeon too... except it's optional and hilariously gives less exp than the dungeon before it. weird

I only ever ask if the healer's gear is questionable. More often than not, most dps and healers demand it and it is more efficient, so why not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

I dunno man, these last few dungeons are just so ridiculously easy healing wise that I actually feel offended if a tank pulls small or ASKS before a pull...

Only all the pulls are enough pulls :> These dungeons are boring enough without tanks being unnecessarily cautious

---

lol this is how I feel too, it's like a personal insult

triggers me almost as much as in mentor roulette when one of the dps start "helping out" with a crossclassed physick whenever the tank takes a scratch

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Here we go again.

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTAAsCNK7RA :C

But going back to the OP i still pull big when i do tank but from another case point if the group u have is not aoe ( and/or doesn't know how to aoe :/) thats a thing T_T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randysquirrel

lol this is how I feel too, it's like a personal insult

triggers me almost as much as in mentor roulette when one of the dps start "helping out" with a crossclassed physick whenever the tank takes a scratch

---

don't forget:

PLD: *pops HG at 40%*

me, the salty sch: lol look at that, 10 secs of free DPS while my fairy deals with your BS

... and yeah, I also find those SMN/BLM annoying. When I run into one of those I just like pretending they're not there and DPS for them

Honestly at this point, I get majorly confused if the tank doesn't pull everything up to a gate. Speaking as both a DPS and healer.

I mean it's fine if they don't, I know not everyone is comfortable with large pulls or are wary of a healer with outdated gear... but man, does it make me really confused for a few seconds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yeol

- Most of the time, tanks will check healers gear and whether it is their first time or not.
- Some tanks can handle themselves well in large pulls by using the right CDs to make it easy on healers.
- Dungeons are easy to heal in general.

If you don't want a large pull just ask the tank to pull less.

---

http://i.imgur.com/3dXBfV0.png

i would consider the dps players gear more than the healer
mobs dying faster means less healing , that how it works

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YISUG

i would consider the dps players gear more than the healer
mobs dying faster means less healing , that how it works

---

That too. Had a bad run with 2 bards taking ages to down mobs.
Turned out one is just bad and the other one is not geared well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riardon

Because dungeons are nerfed down to stupidity mode. Looks at "Expert" roulette we have now. 1st day on 1st try huge pulls and mobs died in few secs. They have too low HP. This kind of easiness is boring. Dungeons used to be fun and challenging back in 2.X series. Now they are made for toddlers. I remember we wanted to get the new shiny tomestone gear to run the new dungeons more efficiently. Now we want the new tomestone gear for the skin and looks.

---

I'd better not see any of you hardcore posers jump ship from any of these dungeons you want to impose on other players. Just sayin'.

My Swiftcast is Reserved for my First Holy... Some cases for stoneskin II
If you ran off before i put protect on you ... Well guess Who fault that was... :p

anyway if a tank runs off without protect when you get back to him just get his Health up (bene even if you absolutly need to) and then cast it. Dont get what the issue is here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Klamor

Another one of these posts, by this guy? Nothing to see here, folks. Bad healer is bad.

---

I am not a bad healer. Nobody dies the first minute, all I'm saying is that it would be nice if healers slowed down enough for other roles to do their jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

don't forget:

PLD: *pops HG at 40%*

me, the salty sch: lol look at that, 10 secs of free DPS while my fairy deals with your BS

... and yeah, I also find those SMN/BLM annoying. When I run into one of those I just like pretending they're not there and DPS for them

---

TBH, when I play PLD I pop HG to let the healer dps because they damn well should be.

Remember When Tanks Asked Before Large Pulls?
http://i.imgur.com/GPE63eJ.jpg

The most warning I usually got was the wipe after the tank started running while I was zoned out looking at armor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hen-Hen

TBH, when I play PLD I pop HG to let the healer dps because they damn well should be.

---

:) Don't get me wrong, I do this myself on the odd occasion that I feel like tanking a run (this only if I've done a couple of pulls and verified that the healer is in fact DPSing)... pull everything in sight, pop HG and then let the healer DPS for a while... if the team is competent, 10 seconds is enough for the mobs to be at low health, at which point I just use the rest of my cooldowns until everything dies.

This is however, a very different situation that when you see a tank using their panic CD at like, practically half HP with only half a dozen mobs on them, lol.

So I havent done any hw dungeons yet , so you guys are saying that all of the dungeons before it the level 50 ones and stuff like stone vigil, and level 44 dd is harder than all the hw dungeons? Just a question of clarification?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

So I havent done any hw dungeons yet , so you guys are saying that all of the dungeons before it the level 50 ones and stuff like stone vigil, and level 44 dd is harder than all the hw dungeons? Just a question of clarification?

---

The HW leveling dungeons are of ok difficulty, tbh (although of course if you're overgeared you'll still breeze through), it's the endgame ones (lvl 60) that are laughably easy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

So I havent done any hw dungeons yet , so you guys are saying that all of the dungeons before it the level 50 ones and stuff like stone vigil, and level 44 dd is harder than all the hw dungeons? Just a question of clarification?

---

The Aery and Vault are roughly on Stone Vigil and Aurum Vale's level. They don't really have any nasty mechanics, but things hit decently hard. Everything in Expert roulette though is a complete joke. Xelphatol's bad enough I don't even need cooldowns for mass pulls. I use them just so the healer can DPS, basically. It doesn't help anyone actively updating their gear is anywhere from 30 to 60 ilvls ahead of the dungeon. And the devs wonder why people find their dungeons boring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

So I havent done any hw dungeons yet , so you guys are saying that all of the dungeons before it the level 50 ones and stuff like stone vigil, and level 44 dd is harder than all the hw dungeons? Just a question of clarification?

---

The leveling dungeons certainly feel harder because the sync is tighter. Where I normally pull from gate to gate in 50s and 60s dungeons, in leveling I generally can't pull more than around 4-7 enemies. That's because I simply do not have the luxury of being 30-60 item levels above the dungeon level.

It's not really "difficulty", mind you - there aren't any more mechanics and you don't need to pay more attention most of the time. But yeah, you can't take quite as many enemies at once.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

This used to be a thing, but now I don't see it anymore. How come?

---

I still encounter it every now and then. More often then not, I see the tank look over my character. I assume to inspect gear instead of just asking (since I queue as a healer unless I'm running with friends/ pre-made).

Like seriously, why complain about anything and "everything"? I've been having these tanks alot of times, even as when i'm typing "hi guys", they already ran forth. You know what I do? I just walk behind them, until they've gathered all the mobs they could gather, then I cast protect then regen, then start spamming my AOEs. Even if I used swiftcast before, that SC will be ready for use when the time comes for me to double holy/gravity.

Always compalining about the small stuff. Are you people robots, that every runs have to be done the same? Go with the flow, whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralts

Like seriously, why complain about anything and "everything"? I've been having these tanks alot of times, even as when i'm typing "hi guys". You know what I do? I just walk behind them, until they've gathered all the mobs they could gather, I cast protect then regen, then start spamming my AOEs. Even if I used swiftcast before, that SC will be ready for use, when the time comes for me to double holy/gravity. Always compalining about the small stuff. Are you people robots, that every runs have to be done the same? Go with the flow, whatever.

---

How DARE you to not overreact over these small things?! I'M DONE WITH THIS GAME.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So basically, every fight is like a primal that takes a while to beat. Yeah no.

---

(edit) Not what I meant, See below.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

A simple middle ground would be PotD's harder floors. Those trash mobs deal upwards of 5,000-7,000 damage when tanks barely get above 20k. If you even think about pulling the entire room, they'll murder you in seconds. If you design the mobs to be like glass cannons, it keeps things interesting without needlessly bogging down the run. (...)

---

This is pretty much exactly what I would like to see for Extreme dungeons, as far as trash is concerned. As for bosses, again, they could take some ideas from the harder PotD bosses I've seen (floors 50, 90, and 100), or even from some of their older Dungeons. Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard), and Sastasha (Hard), and Pharos Sirius (normal) are some that I can think of off the top of my head that had mechanics that couldn't (easily) be ignored when they first came out or if you had a low ilvl. Haukke Manor (Hard) can still wipe a group if they're not paying attention on the final boss, too.

It was just a thought, tho. :)

--Erim Nelhah

Tanks doing huge pulls typically doesn't bother me personally but that's because I can handle almost anything in DF dungeons. Sure a heads up is nice but by the time they run up to the 4th trash pack and then keep going I'm already like "Oh you're one of those. Ok." Cleric stance comes down and swift cast cure II and Bene and tetra are all prepared for the inevitable cure bomb they will need when they stop running. What does bother me is those "special" tanks that pull more than they could handle even if they had a whole party of healers, who then rant about how horrible the healer is when they die.

I don't mind if they do not ask. What I do mind is healing tanks who behave erratically. Big pull then small pull then pull a group, run forward, then stop, etc... It's really annoying just make your day mind up already.

I'll do "1 group" pulls if I'm undergeared as my tank for the dungeon or if I'm new to said dungeon & I used to ask back in 3.2 before big pulls but now... unless a healer/DD is intentionally using VIT materia I have learned to judge ilv of HP (for GGH & Xelo its 19K min DD's & about 1K less healers & u can dubble pull fine if u have 28K+ as tank... cept for that 1 uber pull for GGH, that takes higher gear &/or LB)

Personally I'd welcome a more "Harder" Expert Roullete but thanks to current ilv (& ilv of gear dungeon's drop) most players far exceed the min ilv's for "slow" runs (was even the case on release)... till they maybe add "harder" ones but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

I just let the tank set the pace of the pulls in duty finder now and days not worth the stress to worry over anymore a divine seal regen and bubble usually work to well. I mostly DPS then unless tank doesn't roatate buffs or bother too manage hate because I have strip hate off mobs. Its situational on any df group I adapt to the situation and move on to get my tomes aither way is find by me /shrug.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

I remember when dungeons used to be fun. Then 2.2 came and they became snore fest, starting this trend of making large pulls because "why even, they're so easy!"

R.I.P. Pharos, Copperbell and Haukke manor. Best and only good dungeons ever created.

---

Aurum Vale is echoing through the layers of reality to join those 4 dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Klamor

Another one of these posts, by this guy? Nothing to see here, folks. Bad healer is bad.

---

Another one of these posts, by this guy? Nothing to see here folks. Poster that adds nothing adds nothing...

Seriously, you add nothing to the discussion and indulge in name calling to boot. Why are you even here?

Because dungeons now are easier than ever to do max pulls due to a locked gate behind every 2nd pack or so.

There really is no reason not to do a max pull unless everyone is under-geared.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So basically, every fight is like a primal that takes a while to beat. Yeah no.

---

Oh the days of XI when it took couple minutes just to beat one mob.