WHM isn't bad right now like how AST used to be bad. It's fine
As for a reraise spell, how about an instant cast, long cooldown reraise that lasts 1 min? If you can see someone dying within 1 minute. I think it would be neat
Getting WHM on Par
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12-01-2016, 04:05 PMSylkis
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12-01-2016, 05:42 PMThunda_Cat_SMASHI like your thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
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12-01-2016, 05:46 PMRawrzWe can do the same for tanks! Let's give everyone Flash-like only skills and maybe some debuffs to use when they aren't main tanking. You don't need to do damage to hold hate if the enmity potency is high enough. xDQuote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
Meanwhile... SCHs and WARs flood the forums and riot... xD -
12-01-2016, 05:47 PMThunda_Cat_SMASHIncorrect! Main tank dps is accounted for as well. They do in fact need to deal damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
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12-01-2016, 05:52 PMRawrzBut why? We are stripping classes of essential components of their Jobs. Why not? If you aren't a Damage Per Second class, you should be Healing Damage or Tanking it. Tanks doing damage being accounted for DPS checks is just a consequence of enmity skills having base potency. Remove the potency and their damage contribution will be accounted for as 0. Please look forward to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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12-01-2016, 06:19 PMThunda_Cat_SMASH
Objection! DPS skills are no more essential to the primary role of a healer than Rend Mind, Mantra, or Fist's of Earth are to the integral role of machinist or monk, which are in fact defensive support intended to assist healers or tanks. Where dps is integral to the role of all tanks and all dps, naturally, it's not a requirement or an expectation of healers enforced by the devs, which tank and off tank dps are.
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12-01-2016, 08:40 PMEvangela
What I want the most for my WHM is... some better looking gears to wear.
and for other mage jobs too. stop dressing us up from head to toes. it's 2016. -
12-01-2016, 09:41 PMRaltsSorry, but read. It's for solo healers in high-level content, for them to be more at ease, like AST, to be helping their group in dealing dmg. That reply makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
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12-02-2016, 12:17 AMMilesSaintboroguhI posted that reply to the person trying to be funny by wanting healers stripped of their DPs spellsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ralts
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12-03-2016, 03:49 AMSeraphynaRemember that Stoneskin was 18%. But that was taken away from Whm so everyone who could cross-class could have a flat 10%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicine
Also, remember that Proshell was taken away from Whm and given to all that could cross-class Protect.
Remember that Holy has been nerfed twice.
I 'member.
SE kind of owes Whm at this point. It is it's iconic healer. -
12-03-2016, 04:33 AMLeigaonThat to a deeper extent, would be ideal for everyone. I forget that most of these complaints are from a raiding standpoint. I still freak out sometimes being in damage dealing stance thinking "I've been in here for a while..how is it someone isn't dead?" then a DRG dies so I feel better. ^_^Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
Like some have said, I would like a few things to just be adjusted for WHM. The DoT spell duration increase, consolidate stone spells, have bene be instant.
On the other hand I think Assize has a good step in the right direction, being able to heal / damage deal and give back MP. Depending on your stance will determine which has a bit more potency to it. I wouldn't mind a MP reduction on just stoneskin..I know I shouldn't but I like to use it when I can on black mages. That's more a personal thing.
Trying to think, what would be some solid cases of being identified as a white mage do you all think?
Maybe something like Bar-Magi that's a potent magic reduction but on a cooldown. Or En-light that is party wide, acc boost / elemental damage to attacks..or maybe they'll have us deal more with debuffs in 4.0 and the rebuild. In which case I'm happy to throw down a Slowga. -
12-03-2016, 05:10 AMNariaConsidering the changes coming to the cross class system in Stormblood I'm willing to bet that Stoneskin, Protect and possibly Aero and Raise (and Resurrection/Ascend) are going to cease to be cnj skills and become general healer skills. Which if that is so, means in addition to whatever new skills and traits whm gets they are also going to get several new lower-level ones. Can whm have Sublimation back pls? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphyna
I'm still annoyed by the last holy nerf myself. -
12-03-2016, 05:19 AMGhishlainExcept Sublimation was a SCH ability in XI ^^;........ I don't think SCH needs even MORE MP regeneration xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Naria
With that being said, I do agree that I'm also hoping that the more mandatory cross classes will be put into said role pool and give WHMs a few more tools to play with afterwards. -
12-03-2016, 05:24 AMNariaTrue, but it was a whm one in 1.2X. :) It also was a bit different than in XI, it did not consume HP just built a stored pool of MP equal to a percentage of your HP. Really I'd just like whm to get something to set is apart from the other healers besides its current gimmick of spell potency vs mana cost. Actually giving them a full range of enfeebles that work on bosses for mitigation could be another route although I have no idea how that would work out balance-wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
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12-03-2016, 05:59 AMGhishlainWell, that's fascinating @_@ Can't find anything about that when Googling for Sublimation with the FFXIV tag so maybe it was called something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Naria
It would be neat if they took Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Misery from XI and gave it to the current WHM. For Afflatus Solace there would definitely need to be some modifications because Cureskin would be ridiculously broken if you consider the values and the way XIV is - I would be thinking more of the more you heal, the more your next Holy would damage for. It would probably be something different than Holy though since it's an AoE in this game. Could just be the next damage spell cast gets a damage bonus based on healing done.
Misery could just make the WHM sac some HP to get a potency bonus on their damage spells.
... man everything I think up for WHM eventually revolves around "MORE DEEEEEEEPS" >>; *Goes back to the drawing board* -
12-03-2016, 06:07 AMDeathgiver
It was called blissful mind in 1.2x.
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12-03-2016, 06:07 AMThunda_Cat_SMASH
I blame Cleric Stance. It's one hell of an addictive drug.
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12-03-2016, 06:52 AMFabricioRFgr8 b8 m8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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12-03-2016, 07:27 AMNariaYeah looking back over it I'd misremembered a bit, it was "Blissful Mind" and it worked exactly like XI's Sublimation. Giving whm more MP recovery would be a quick fix for the job, although I would love something like Solace/Misery or enfeebling magic instead to give a different dynamic. In FFXIV for me whm kinda peeked in 1.2X, and has been getting progressively more dull since 2.0. The new 3.0 actions were a step in the right direction but playing whm atm is still less fun for me than SCH or AST. Which is sad because I have a lot of love for White Mage in Final Fantasy as a whole, and I really want to enjoy it in XIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
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12-03-2016, 07:41 AMXenosan
Assuming that with the change from Cross-Class Skills to Role Skills, Conjurer's Cleric Stance and Protect will get replaced with abilities that may add milage depending on what they are relative to SCH/AST's new moves, and there's the pseudo-buff in that E4E/Virus and the other cross-classes will essentially be traited (because those are moving from THM/ACN to role-specific as well). Assuming.
I do think the proc system of WHM could be expanded to instant/free-cast Stoneskin spells and Cleric-cheating instant/free DPS spells. Especially Stoneskin because I expect that is staying as a CNJ skill, it's not moving nor is there an equivelant going to be placed in the Role pool. SCH/AST will lose SS as a result (PVP?)
The duality of Assize is another direction, but I think it's too late to shift WHM in that direction. Precursor to the next healer class I hope. -
12-03-2016, 09:16 AMJunseiKeiThat was the point. As well as me saying I'm only slightly evil because I fully understand many DPS as healers. Mainly because there is no need to have two healers healing 24/7- it mainly comes down to mitigate this and go back to DPSing while your MH does their thing. In any case, my comment was more to irritate someone than to be serious. :3Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
I wouldn't mind seeing more mechanics like T11's trash pull, though, or to provide actual heal checks more frequently than maybe 3 times an expansion (exaggeration). -
12-03-2016, 09:28 AMSerilda
I think giving WHM Solace/Misery would be a bit chaotic with the job already having a stance-swapping mechanic. If we're poaching from FFXI then I'd like to revisit things like Devotion (trade your HP for a party member's MP) or Martyr (trade your own HP to heal a party member in an emergency). Very, very situational, but interesting additions to the toolkit if balanced correctly. Or a short duration defensive buff of some kind with a long cooldown as a few suggested. It makes me sad that my other healer jobs can cheese some wipe mechanics but my WHM is purely reactive; I feel like I'm slacking when I throw down Asylum or cast Medica II and pray instead of having an actual party-wide defensive mechanic of some kind.
(And if we're poaching from WoW I'd like to have a heal like classic PoM, queued up in advance and jumping on use - it was just fun and even though it was mostly overhealing outside of PVP it was still satisfying to manage.) -
12-03-2016, 09:31 AMSeraphynaVirus/Disable, Eye for an Eye, and Swiftcast should all be on that list as well. If we're going for all the same across the board, base skills should be there, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Naria
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12-03-2016, 10:50 AMGemina
I haven't done any Heavensward dungeons yet, but healing is still pretty erratic in the ARR stuff. I get everything from '3-mob pull tanks' which require no healing at all, to 'pull-everything-from-one-boss-to-the-next' tanks that require nothing but healing until enough mobs have been killed for the tank to survive a gcd without a heal. I have yet to acquire the 50+ abilities that facilitates WHM dps, so I am still on the outside looking in a bit here.
However, from my experiences thus far, I feel WHM is fine as is. The only thing I find myself wanting as I run content is an AoE cleanse. I would love if Divine Seal had an additional effect that makes your next Esuna cast AoE and making a recast unavailable until the effect of DS wears off. A lot of players want additional WHM utility, and that is one that packs a nice punch without OPing WHM. My only concern is the enmity it would generate. -
12-05-2016, 11:32 PMAura_Shurifon
The problem is SCH and AST can cross skills (and need to) most of WHM tools and they removed the trait that would make WHM better :
- Stoneskin is 10% for all, it used to be 18% for WHM
- Protect is 10% physic and magic, it used to be only physics for the other
- Cleric Stance is the same for all.
WHM have only a nearly useless version of virus and a long CD version of Eye for on eye from Scholar...
And we can't even raise in fight at low level :/
Remove crossclass skills and WHM would be the only healer you'll want ^^ -
12-05-2016, 11:43 PMRawrzKinda. Sch and Ast would just get their own versions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Shurifon
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12-06-2016, 03:21 AMJonnycbad
-Sacrosanctity: Reduces damage within an area of effect by 10%. Shares recast with "Asylum".
-Mental Discipline: MP cost reduced by 50% for duration of effect.
-Reviviscence: Removes 1 stack of "Weakness" effect. (Long recast, like 5min)
-Martyr: Converts next healing magic spell into a shield that reduces damage taken, Healing potency -50%. 1 min recast (basically turns your next Cure 1 and Cure 2 into an Adloquium)
This closes the gap between WHM SCH and AST by providing overlap with some skills, but obviously certain jobs specialize. So previously WHM dominated AoE cures because SCH only had Succor--so they gave SCH a pseudo Medica with Emergency Tactics+Succor but with a 30s recast and Indomitability which uses an Aetherflow Stack and has a long recast. That said, Sacrosanctity would be like a Sacred Soil for when that's more important for reducing Raid Damage than Asylum. Revivescence would be a unique feature that allows WHM to reduce a player's weakness stack by 1, which would be great for tanks on certain content where being weakened makes it impossible to survive a TB or an Ultimate. With a long recast, it won't be abused. -
12-06-2016, 03:35 AMGhishlain
Random thoughts for the thread and continuing on the FFXI poaching skill names:
Afflatus Solace 120s CD - Grants 10 charges of Solace that lasts for 30 seconds total. Every time you use an curative spell or ability, consume a charge of Solace. Increase the potency of that spell or ability by [5% * (11-X)] where X = number of charges remaining. If you use an ability while under the effect of Solace, reduce the recast of the ability by [5% * (11-X)]
Afflatus Misery 90s CD - Imbues the White Mage to channel their pain into healing potential. Provides a "Misery" buff of infinite duration that is consumed when the White Mage is damaged. Grants a 10s buff that makes the next healing spell instant and increases its healing potency by X% where X = the % of max HP damage they take from the attack. Healing potency caps at 40%
Devotion 90s CD - Consumes 10% of the White Mage's HP and restores 10% of another player's MP.
Martyr 90s CD - Consumes 10% of the White Mage's HP and restore 10% of another player's TP. -
12-06-2016, 05:28 AMShurrikhanUnless you're willing to use more set up, I'm not sure that's going to be possible, given that an AST itself is a WHM carbon copy apart from having traded out Asylum and Assize for buffs. If you willing to use more setup though, I feel like its elements could play a far greater part in its toolkit. That's pretty much an untapped treasure trove at the moment, with only unreliable and non-bankable 20% chance procs to show for that huge alleged component of Conjury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
Alternatively, you have other traditional skills, such as Re-raise or Shell, but you'd have to find a way for the first's niche advantage not to be overwhelming and the second to be distinct from the simple % Def/mDef bonus of Protect and flat absorbs (Nocturnal Field, Galvanize, Stoneskin), not just in tooltip description but in actual use. -
12-08-2016, 12:56 AMBrightshadowI don't think that will resolve anything, Afflatus Solace making our casting/potency better on healing spells in not our main issue it's rather our utility sucks. Same problem with Afflatus Misery we don't need instant cast, nor should we be taking damage. As for Devotion and Martyr why should it consume our HP when AST has much more utility and they can do the same without a cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
What WHM could use to make their utility on par with AST/SCH is the following:
1.) Reraise (On a long recast/not usable in-combat)
2.) Afflatus Solace (Changed perhaps provides 2% attack bonus per everytime you cast a healing spell on a target) (Max 10 charges 20% on single target) (Does nothing if it doesn't recover HP)
3.) Afflatus Misery (Changed perhaps provides 5% stoneskin per everytime you cast a healing spell on a target) (Max 10 charges 20% SS on single target) (Does nothing if it doesn't recover HP.
4.) Devotion / Martyr (Remove Penalty or make it consume Solace/Misery charges.) -
12-08-2016, 01:25 AMGhishlainI tossed out my ideas as more of a "for fun" thoughts than actually try to balance it with other healer's and resolve the issue at hand, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightshadow
However to speak specifically to your comment about Devotion and Martyr, ASTs also have to contend with RNG to get the same utility for their TP and MP restoration. They may not get Spire or Ewer at the times where they may be appropriate to use. Not that it's a knock against AST - AST players know what they're getting into and they know they won't always be consistent with their utility.
To respond to your comment about Misery - the intent was it to cover for a raid buster. It goes against the current proactive healing approach to have AoE heals go off as raid busters do, hence why the instant cast was added so WHMs have time to "charge" the bonus and use it immediately afterwards.
I dislike Reraise as an ability because, just to reword your quote of "nor should we be taking damage", "No player should be dying". I also dislike Reraise because it goes against current combat design. If they changed how they design combat, I'd consider Reraise but no strategy should ever revolve around "X Player Dying at Y Mechanic so we can use Reraise" *Shakes fist at Nisi*
As I write the response to this post though, it makes me think just give WHM LOTS OF HEALING. Give it to them to the point where they can cover both healing slots in a single package and then go with a 2 Tank / 1 Healer / 5 DPS approach. Continue to build their identity as the healer of all healers and give them the capability to heal through everything and make people think "Well, is it worth the LB build loss to get the extra overall DPS?" just to keep the composition ideas moving forward for future raids. Just some food for thought for others to think on. -
12-08-2016, 01:52 AMBrightshadow
I actually wouldn't mind content requiring only 1 healer, 1 tank, and 6 DPS there seems to be a lack of tank/healers either way would speed up queue times.
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12-08-2016, 02:10 AMGhishlain
It would be an interesting change, to say the least. If anything, don't "force" that composition but give the players the option to run an unorthodox composition if they so desire. Just to reiterate on my previous comment, if WHMs can heal enough to cover for both themselves and their co-healer, either have the co-healer go full time DPS or just bring another DPS and go nuts. This would give WHMs a niche compared to say, bringing a SCH who might need to rely on an AST to compliment their kit so they can meet the heal checks - but still have enough heals together to meet said check.