Eight Fixes to Make These Changes Good.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

If they do it is currently completely unnoticeable. I use both skills all the time. Neither one of them has any significant impact on my HP.

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-then you realize the same HP reductions probably apply to the new skills.-

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I really am baffled by this Lancer Change. Honestly, how do you jump from Straight line multi target skills and High TP generation to Sacrifice Health to do more Damage.

I suppose it annoys me more that this kills the possibility of Dark Knight job than that is Gimps my Mains sustainability

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it still a lancer/dragoon it has breath moves and jumps, but it needed more than just that maybe your right, maybe there is something of the dark knight about it. but, and this is just me guessing at things that could have driven the idea of dragoon. not got any basis on fact. but maybe they were in 2 minds about dark knight and dragoon, so they made a hybrid but gave it the dragoon name, and if this is the case, then i fear your right about not getting your dark knight, but like i say that could all be just pie in the sky

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Originally Posted by Kiote

A list of things to fix for these Class Overhauls:

Lancer is supposed to be a Dragoon, not a Dark Knight.

Conjurers do not have enough offensive abilities for Solo.

Reactionary Skill(Phalanx, Haymaker, Fracture and Feint) should not be class specific.

Mages do not have enough spells. Mages should always have more skills than Melees

There is a severe lack of Enfeebling Magic.

Classes are too closely aligned with Jobs. There should be a noticeable difference between the two.

Puglist Elemental Skills will not be effective in Combat against the Majority of Creatures in Game. (Low Damage + Elemental Resistance = Lower Damage)

Archer's Bow should not be an Auto Attack.

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Can you just quit the game already. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Quatre

One Fix to Make These Changes Good.

1. Don't listen to any of Kiote's suggestions.

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most definitely

let's not be douches

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

I'm a 50 lancer since dunesfolk was the big thing and frankly I'm loving these changes.. also as far as mage changes go, good, if the 50's are ok with it then so am I because in the end THEY will be the ones playing the job not me.. Also SE wants feedback ,yes, but they also want feedback thats worth something.. it's like someone is asking for help on physics and you don't know jack shit and in the end all you do is confuse them... Same thing goes with this, no experience, don't bother, because in the end you want the people in which the change will affect most speak out.. It's their feedback that counts, not us DD's, we should talk solely on content that pertains to us, to allow for a more streamlined and useful, heap of feedback.

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First of all, I do this for a living so I do know what I'm talking about.

Second of all, these class changes shouldn't consider the people at level 50 any more than they consider the people at level 1. It is the people who have not yet leveled a class who have to deal with the impact of a drastic overhaul and the significant balancing issue it will cause.

A Conjurer who had to level up to 50 with only Aero and Stone will have a significantly harder time than a Conjurer that had all six.

A Lancer who loses a significant portion of their health every time they buff will be eaten alive if they try to solo a levequest that typically has cluster of three enemies at a time.

A Gladiator who can't put out remotely decent damage because all his skills are now defensive will never get the time bonus from completing a levequest.

There are more thing to consider when you do something like this than just the people who leveled the Job already.

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A Conjurer who had to level up to 50 with only Aero and Stone will have a significantly harder time than a Conjurer that had all six

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Just to clarify, when I played the game back in november my first class to 50 was con and aero was pretty much all I used. So you are wrong on this part as well as every other part.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Just to clarify, when I played the game back in november my first class to 50 was con and aero was pretty much all I used. So you are wrong on this part as well as every other part.

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Back in November this game was so easy you could have spit on the enemies and they would have died. The game has gotten significantly harder than it was. Elemental Alignment plays a huge role. Elemental Resistance drops a spell doing 300 dmg down to 70.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

A Conjurer who had to level up to 50 with only Aero and Stone will have a significantly harder time than a Conjurer that had all six.

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Explain how, although you have yet to reply to one of my posts in this thread... did you put me on ignore /sad panda face

If you are refering to the opposing element stuff then for all we know this may have been "abolished"

Back when we could put stats in one element all I used was Water.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Back in November this game was so easy you could have spit on the enemies and they would have died. The game has gotten significantly harder than it was. Elemental Alignment plays a huge role. Elemental Resistance drops a spell doing 300 dmg down to 70.

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the game was easy then? The game is easy NOW...

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Ya think that might be because your also using life surge ?

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Never use it, I always do Speed Surge, but thanks for pointing out that that has been removed from the game.. Fantastic..

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Originally Posted by Kiote

A list of things to fix for these Class Overhauls:

Lancer is supposed to be a Dragoon, not a Dark Knight.

Conjurers do not have enough offensive abilities for Solo.

Reactionary Skill(Phalanx, Haymaker, Fracture and Feint) should not be class specific.

Mages do not have enough spells. Mages should always have more skills than Melees

There is a severe lack of Enfeebling Magic.

Classes are too closely aligned with Jobs. There should be a noticeable difference between the two.

Puglist Elemental Skills will not be effective in Combat against the Majority of Creatures in Game. (Low Damage + Elemental Resistance = Lower Damage)

Archer's Bow should not be an Auto Attack.

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very few of these are fixes just your personal opinion... i don't like it...

kiote, you do this for a living? i knew there was something about you. your tanaka aren't you?

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Originally Posted by Kiote

First of all, I do this for a living so I do know what I'm talking about.

Second of all, these class changes shouldn't consider the people at level 50 any more than they consider the people at level 1. It is the people who have not yet leveled a class who have to deal with the impact of a drastic overhaul and the significant balancing issue it will cause.

A Conjurer who had to level up to 50 with only Aero and Stone will have a significantly harder time than a Conjurer that had all six.

A Lancer who loses a significant portion of their health every time they buff will be eaten alive if they try to solo a levequest that typically has cluster of three enemies at a time.

A Gladiator who can't put out remotely decent damage because all his skills are now defensive will never get the time bonus from completing a levequest.

There are more thing to consider when you do something like this than just the people who leveled the Job already.

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The only problem I have with this is the fact that the people who have leveled the jobs have played through 1-50 so at one point in time they were that noob........ if your just starting rank 30 ish fine stick your opinion but in reality main job mage's feedback should be of the highest priority.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Never use it, I always do Speed Surge, but thanks for pointing out that that has been removed from the game.. Fantastic..

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-.- speed surge also replenishes HP doesn't it ?

Not to be an ass but if you don't understand what the current abilities do, how on earth do you presume to understand how the future ones works.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Never use it, I always do Speed Surge, but thanks for pointing out that that has been removed from the game.. Fantastic..

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Life surge still gives HP... and ferocity 2 takes off max 90 hp I think? one max tp doom spike 2 and your almost back to where you started... and tp regen is nuts on lancer so in reality the HP loss is so menial it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

The only problem I have with this is the fact that the people who have leveled the jobs have played through 1-50 so at one point in time they were that noob........ if your just starting rank 30 ish fine stick your opinion but in reality main job mage's feedback should be of the highest priority.

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People at level 50 will almost exclusively be using Job. They would be better off focusing their attention there. Classes are going to be utilized most often by people leveling up. Those are the people who the Dev team should be concerned about. If the skill sets are not viable for leveling up solo, people wont play.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

People at level 50 will almost exclusively be using Job. They would be better off focusing their attention there. Classes are going to be utilized most often by people leveling up. Those are the people who the Dev team should be concerned about. If the skill sets are not viable for leveling up solo, people wont play.

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Xp party says hello.

In 1.20 we get a nice shiny party search feature too :D

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Originally Posted by Jinko

-.- speed surge also replenishes HP doesn't it ?

Not to be an ass but if you don't understand what the current abilities do, how on earth do you presume to understand how the future ones works.

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Speed surge heals rough 10-15 hp a hit. It would in no way mitigate a significant impact on health from a buff. If the impact of the health cost is not going to be significant then there is no reason to put it in the game.

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People at level 50 will almost exclusively be using Job. They would be better off focusing their attention there. Classes are going to be utilized most often by people leveling up.

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Spoken with such surety; but the truth is, you have no clue how it's going to end up working.

Could you just give it a rest, maybe, with the constant doom-and-gloom? Jeez. Go play Skyrim for a while and relax.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

People at level 50 will almost exclusively be using Job. They would be better off focusing their attention there. Classes are going to be utilized most often by people leveling up. Those are the people who the Dev team should be concerned about. If the skill sets are not viable for leveling up solo, people wont play.

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pretty sure the way the system is set up to work is your on your class, and you use your job as an overlay to specialize your class.. meaning your still using the class..?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Xp party says hello.

In 1.20 we get a nice shiny party search feature too :D

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While I agree MMOs should be more party focused. Unfortunately, even with a good search feature, most players prefer to Solo. It's a sad statistic of the MMO genre.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Speed surge heals rough 10-15 hp a hit. It would in no way mitigate a significant impact on health from a buff. If the impact of the health cost is not going to be significant then there is no reason to put it in the game.

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Yes one is a buff for yourself and the other is a buff for the party.
I think the whole point is the buff mitigates the loss in HP, plus acts as a party buff to give HP back to the whole party everytime they land a hit.

Edit:- You are assuming that the new abilites will drain a great deal of HP from your character, which may not be the case, it could be no more or less than Ferocity and Invigorate currently use.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

pretty sure the way the system is set up to work is your on your class, and you use your job as an overlay to specialize your class.. meaning your still using the class..?

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Yes, but your Class is supposed to be and effective stand alone version of your Job. The Job should push the class into a party mode. It should not be party dependent before you even have the Job.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Would you just stop already?

I thought it was enough that you talked about this in another thread and here you are posting threads about it.

Quit running all over my parade and everyone elses. YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE CHANGES IN ACTION YET.

So stop. Kthanks

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Macro1 : Stop STOP Stop STOP Stop STOP STOPPPPPpPpPpPpPpPpPpP

And just to throw this out there, you shouldn't be getting hit much as a lancer.. you probably already know this so even if I took 200+ damage from this buff, with speed surge and the aoe heals that will be present with PLD and the mages will likely throw, the dmg really wont matter.. and speed itself is totally capable of healing you 200 hp quickly.. you have auto attack which hits pretty fast with speed surge so your getting about 8-9 hp every 3 seconds.. then you have your three basic attacks which heal 14 hp -ish- then you have the insane tp lancers get and with a full buffed ability your getting 40+ heals on a speed surge heal.. add that up and in a minute.. you have over 200 hp healed WITH ONLY speed surge.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

pretty sure the way the system is set up to work is your on your class, and you use your job as an overlay to specialize your class.. meaning your still using the class..?

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things are alittle hazy here. from the note's today it would seem to suggest this, but from what we have been told in the past of how jobs work. when you get a job, you get a job stone. and when you put the stone on you get job abilities and lose class abilities and you get access to job armour and weapons.

but that is old info who knows how it will work when it is released

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Yes one is a buff for yourself and the other is a buff for the party.
I think the whole point is the buff mitigates the loss in HP, plus acts as a party buff to give HP back to the whole party everytime they land a hit.

Edit:- You are assuming that the new abilites will drain a great deal of HP from your character, which may not be the case, it could be no more or less than Ferocity and Invigorate currently use.

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It doesn't really matter I just double checked and neither of those two abilities consume health. That effect is only added after this patch.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

It doesn't really matter I just double checked and neither of those two abilities consume health. That effect is only added after this patch.

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I must log in and investigate .. I will be back >.>

http://i42.tinypic.com/qsa7hy.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Yes, but your Class is supposed to be and effective stand alone version of your Job. The Job should push the class into a party mode. It should not be party dependent before you even have the Job.

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you realize your getting the job really early on.. like level 30.. so early on.. you will start to see the effects of jobs.. 1-30 is going to be fine, in all honesty just cool your little taco and let's wait for the patches to hit.. as of now I think we are in good hands.. I just hope they fix this leveling BS.. and the way the game is going classes will not be like that.. Jobs are going to be a must, as it should be, because later on they will likely add other jobs so that each class has more options.. it makes sense.. why would you need a 50 lancer if there is a 50 DRG...technically its lancer/drg which I don't like the way that sounds .. seems redundant.. I wish the armory system would gtfo >_>

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

And just to throw this out there, you shouldn't be getting hit much as a lancer.. you probably already know this so even if I took 200+ damage from this buff, with speed surge and the aoe heals that will be present with PLD and the mages will likely throw, the dmg really wont matter.. and speed itself is totally capable of healing you 200 hp quickly.. you have auto attack which hits pretty fast with speed surge so your getting about 8-9 hp every 3 seconds.. then you have your three basic attacks which heal 14 hp -ish- then you have the insane tp lancers get and with a full buffed ability your getting 40+ heals on a speed surge heal.. add that up and in a minute.. you have over 200 hp healed WITH ONLY speed surge.

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Any person who is soloing will get hit through the entire fight. Once again I have to point out. Classes are supposed to be designed for Solo gameplay.

Also Lancer has an incredibly slow auto attack.

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Originally Posted by grandm

things are alittle hazy here. from the note's today it would seem to suggest this, but from what we have been told in the past of how jobs work. when you get a job, you get a job stone. and when you put the stone on you get job abilities and lose class abilities and you get access to job armour and weapons.

but that is old info who knows how it will work when it is released

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yeah the system is still very vague atm.. but hey, 1.21 is looking fun.

My bad they do, its 60 health..

Pointlessly unnoticeable..

I used them and my health regened faster than I could look at my HP bar.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Any person who is soloing will get hit through the entire fight. Once again I have to point out. Classes are supposed to be designed for Solo gameplay.

Also Lancer has an incredibly slow auto attack.

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with speed surge, not so much, in fact they probably have the fastest auto attack in the game, side pug... and yes but then again you wouldn't be using abilities like that in a normal fight, I know I don't.. I only ever buff for big fights, and when soloing I go for survive ability and cross class my cures.. which will still be available to cross class post job system so in the jist of things I see nothing but good things coming from this patch..

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Originally Posted by Kiote

My bad they do, its 60 health..

Pointlessly unnoticeable..

I used them and my health regened faster than I could look at my HP bar.

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which is why no one is really worried.. hell I wont be worried unless its like 500+ damage..

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Any person who is soloing will get hit through the entire fight. Once again I have to point out. Classes are supposed to be designed for Solo gameplay.

Also Lancer has an incredibly slow auto attack.

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this is wrong. class is suitable for solo not designed for. meaning you can play solo if you want. not you have to play solo or it is stronger for solo than party

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

which is why no one is really worried.. hell I wont be worried unless its like 500+ damage..

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Hmmm i can see it now !!
Lancer has 300 HP and uses ability .. hmmm

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Hmmm i can see it now !!
Lancer has 300 HP and uses ability .. hmmm

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if a lancer had only 300 hp.. i'd cry..

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

if a lancer had only 300 hp.. i'd cry..

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Hey!! he's been fighting hard and the whitemage is being lazy >.>

it'd be like popping ninja 2hr lolol...