Yup. This actually happened.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

No. But I also don't think a squad commander could turn up whenever he pleases, receive the mission report and send it to the bin right away, send off the squad again and then go back to baking cakes and going fishing...

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You haven't been in the military, I see.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

I can't fathom the logic behind the "you take chances with people's lives" argument.

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It wasn't an argument. It was a joke, but people sure are taking it seriously.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

It's a video game. I feel I have to stress this. If you are to scale a 9 foot wall in real life, you can freeclimb, you can build a ladder, you can try to walk around it, you can use climbing tools, you can build a fricken tower or a tunnel through the wall if you've got the time. In a video game, it's just a stat check.

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the stat is called "Required" Attributes, not suggested or desired. the training/squad attributes is already the ability/tools to build the ladder before they take on the mission.

it was a basic example, the stat already totals all your party member and squads stats together, so it's already taken all of those things into account and your group still doesn't have the Required attributes to perform the tasks that this particular mission requires.

and it's not like the entire mission is just scaling one wall, there are other things they need to do to successfully complete the mission, that's why there are 3 required stats.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Using the level 35 mission Allied Maneuvers as an example, it requires 455/315/190 for a grand total of 960. Let's say my total is 160/160/160 for a total of 480 points, that's 50% of the required amount which should be a 50% chance of success in my opinion.

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If all it did was total all three of the requirements and total all three of your stats and compare the totals, that would completely wipe out the whole idea of having three different stats. One stat can't make up for another any more than you can boost your Dark Knight's damage with crafting materia.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

If all it did was total all three of the requirements and total all three of your stats and compare the totals, that would completely wipe out the whole idea of having three different stats. One stat can't make up for another any more than you can boost your Dark Knight's damage with crafting materia.

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I believe it was just a suggestion. There's nothing wrong with brain storming. But let's not pretend this isn't a flawed system. Using my picture for example, I had 309/310 strength. In order to meet this requirement, not only do I need to raise it by 20 to meet the one point differential, I have to decrease another stat by 20, which basically switches one qualified stat for another. For one freakin point. So my success options are bench them until they level up to meet the stat, so no overnight exp, or choose another mission I've already completed, and who wants to do that?

Each stat should have a varying rate of success based on how much it's increased or decreased. Not a flat percentage based on if you hit it or not.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Each stat should have a varying rate of success based on how much it's increased or decreased. Not a flat percentage based on if you hit it or not.

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except that's exactly what requirements should be.

what you're really asking for is to have more failures above the required stats so that it makes sense to go into them with much higher stats than stated.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

If all it did was total all three of the requirements and total all three of your stats and compare the totals, that would completely wipe out the whole idea of having three different stats.

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No it wouldn't, if one stat is almost half of the total like it is for the mission I mentioned. That means you still need a lot of that stat for a decent chance of success and as Gemina mentioned, if you're only 1 to 2 points off of the total you should still have a very high chance of success.

The stat amount for the mission should be seen as what you need to have a guaranteed chance of success, but if you're only a few points off? Then yes, I would argue you should still have a really high chance at the mission succeeding.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

http://i.imgur.com/zEBp90i.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EIantfZ.jpg

Just ain't right. I'm not even angry. This isn't a rant post. I'm just sad :( I had a bad feeling all day too. First Serpent Lieutenant is going to have to wait another day.

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'Twould seem thou hast offended our lord and saviour RNGsus... XD

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

except that's exactly what requirements should be.

what you're really asking for is to have more failures above the required stats so that it makes sense to go into them with much higher stats than stated.

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That's not what I'm saying at all. Having more than what's required should never result in failure. Having more than the required stat has never been part of anything I've mentioned. Only less.

I wonder if they are using math more like:
All stats at listed value = 100%
If you had half the listed values for each then:
100% x 1/2 = 50%
50% x 1/2 = 25%
25% x 1/2 = 12.5%

By calling them "requirements" the more straightforward way would be to not allow any chance of success unless all three are met, but they only do it that way on the final rank-up missions. I think needing to actually meet at least a couple for a decent chance at success and one for any chance of success is pretty generous. Getting close to a requirement but failing it shouldn't give extra bonuses to your success rates. If you didn't meet that requirement, then you didn't meet it. It should just look at how many of the requirements were met, not how many were close to being met or further from being met. They're either met or they're not.

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Originally Posted by Shai

It wasn't an argument. It was a joke, but people sure are taking it seriously.

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It's serious because the main ideology behind the squads are taking chances, if chance wasn't supposed to be factored into the success rate, every mission would be 100% regardless of level or training done. While no plan is ever 100% guaranteed even with proper planning or being worked on by professionals, RNG does make sense for failure every now and then. But the fact we can't actually tune the squad, outside of the training regiment, to me makes squads a failed mini game. We can't gear them, or even interact with them, so when a mission is failed because you have 230/240 strength, 300/290 mental, 410/400 tactic, and you can't do anything outside of what I mentioned as far as squad progression goes, the aspect of chance becomes the only driving force behind squadrons.

http://puu.sh/rLKkA/9f9e175303.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/298b655e7b8578b7...8dda8bfaa0.png

Guess what, my squadron failed that mission. My squadron needs a new master, I don't want them anymore

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Originally Posted by MihaelB

http://puu.sh/rLKkA/9f9e175303.jpg

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This is basically the kind of crap that's been irritating me. Please tell me no one thinks this is ok.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

This is basically the kind of crap that's been irritating me. Please tell me no one thinks this is ok.

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What, that you'll fail a flagged mission if you don't meet the requirements? Why would you expect anything else? Or do you just want a guarantee you'll succeed at everything with no requirements in place at all?

Just do one of the other missions or a training session and you'll level up. When you're as close as Mihael showed, it won't take much more to get the extra point needed to meet the requirements. Once you do that, come back to this. Too many people are offended at being told their squad isn't ready rather than just training them up to be ready.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

This is basically the kind of crap that's been irritating me. Please tell me no one thinks this is ok.

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i think it's perfectly okay, i was 2 strength points short on Saturday with my best config and had to level up my MRD and GLD up by sending them to fail. requirements are requirements, they are required. i didn't have what was required and failed and got 50% XP. that is okay and i ranked up on Sunday.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

But the fact we can't actually tune the squad, outside of the training regiment, to me makes squads a failed mini game.

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The tuning is picking the right members and training. Also picking the chemistry matters too. If you look at MihaelB's squad, if either the PUG or LNC had the exact same bonus to Physical instead of Mental, that would let him do another -20 +40 -20 training to get the Required Stats. i know i screwed it up when i traded one of those boosts for an EXP one, set me back 2 days.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

The tuning is picking the right members and training. Also picking the chemistry matters too. If you look at MihaelB's squad, if either the PUG or LNC had the exact same bonus to Physical instead of Mental, that would let him do another -20 +40 -20 training to get the Required Stats. i know i screwed it up when i traded one of those boosts for an EXP one, set me back 2 days.

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Tuning is something you do that doesn't require a RNG based boost, such as gear builds and stat allocation. Something we can't do in squadrons, we are entirely dependant on RNG in this case, yes we can switch out members, but again you can't take a GLD and apply individual points into their mental, physical, or tactical, nor can I add gear to said member to help curve the stat requirements. The only thing you can do is be entirely dependant on RNG and in this case MihaelB's squad mathematically had a 66.6% chance of winning with a 33.3% chance of failure based purely having 2/3 requirements. But if you actually add up the total stat requirements for crystal recovery you need 980 total across the board, 315 + 325 + 340= 980 and MihaelB has 1024 total, 330 + 324 + 370= 1024. For the game to determine that squad isn't ready despite the glaring fact Mihael is over stated in 2 categories, is something that needs to reconsidered.

It would not be so bad if we weren't limited to just 3 training sessions daily, but we are. I try my best to meet the recommendation, but even if i don't I'll still send them away since it's exp gained regardless. Anyways, there were times were missions did succeed despite only meeting 2/3 of the requirement.

But yeah, I don't like this system. At 18 hrs the missions take way too long and the daily training should not be limited as it is right now.

It would also be nice if we could send 2 groups into different missions rather than just one.

At the higher ranks the extra 1k XP from the comprehensive training XP doesn't do much. The 3 sessions are better spent fine tuning stats. As for the odds, sucks you need all 3 stats to clear flagged missions, but that is how the system currently stands. As for RNG for normal missions, its a fixed 100/75/50/25% success rate based on individual stats from what I can tell. Nothing you can do there either. My WVR spec has 1k in Craftsmanship and near that in Control and CS II and HT still give the same 80% success rate that was there in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

But if you actually add up the total stat requirements for crystal recovery you need 980 total across the board, 315 + 325 + 340= 980 and MihaelB has 1024 total, 330 + 324 + 370= 1024.

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When does "across the board" count for anything? And why would you expect it to here? A point of physical is not a point of mental, nor is either a point of tactical. They're three *different* stats.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

For the game to determine that squad isn't ready despite the glaring fact Mihael is over stated in 2 categories, is something that needs to reconsidered.

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Why should it treat only being over the requirement in just two categories the same as being over it in all three? That would kind of wipe out the whole point of them.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Tuning is something you do that doesn't require a RNG based boost,

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what RNG? match all 3 stats, they are all required.

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Originally Posted by Odessium

https://i.gyazo.com/298b655e7b8578b7...8dda8bfaa0.png

Guess what, my squadron failed that mission. My squadron needs a new master, I don't want them anymore

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You need to meet all 3 stats, don't do it if you don't meet all 3, rank up missions aren't like regular missions.

I wanna fire my Sergeant and hire a cute male Au Ra to be my secreta--sergeant.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

You need to meet all 3 stats, don't do it if you don't meet all 3, rank up missions aren't like regular missions.

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It's weird if with that level the stat still not met requirements. 20 Tactic should go to mental imo.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I wanna fire my Sergeant and hire a cute male Au Ra to be my secreta--sergeant.

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Are they all randomized? Because mine's is an old elezen and I see another person from a previous post with a Roegadyn when we're both in the same GC it seems. I'd like to switch him if possible, too

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Originally Posted by Eul

It's weird if with that level the stat still not met requirements. 20 Tactic should go to mental imo.

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You can't think of it as a complex system. It's not even like normal stats we see on gear, from what anyone can tell. The numbers you see for Squadrons are simply a "do you meet the requirements?" type of thing. If no, then you essentially lose 1/3 likelihood of success per stat that is not met. With rank up missions, just based on the text provided, you can only assume harsher penalties for not meeting the required stat. As in, either significantly lower odds (e.g. 30% success at most) or just outright impossible to succeed (i.e. 0% success chance). Any excess stats just won't matter, since the idea is that you have to adjust the bonus stats based on mission reqs.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Are they all randomized? Because mine's is an old elezen and I see another person from a previous post with a Roegadyn when we're both in the same GC it seems. I'd like to switch him if possible, too

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I'm in the Flames and got a big old Roegadyn. He's cool and all, but I would rather a cute male Ra. In my RP he plays straight man to my character's eccentricity in dealing with my squadron, and my character is always trying to get him fired, so it works as is. But switching would be nice :P