A plea from a MNK to SQX

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Originally Posted by Jas710

The other two stances outside of FoF are super useless. Ok, so maaaaybe Earth is useful if in the rare instance the tank dies and MNK needs to temporarily step in. The only thing Wind is useful for is taking up a hotbar slot. Get rid of it already.

They also need to axe that Meditation spamming.

And rework the cheapazz Bruce Lee wanna-be animations to something more respectable.

The rest of the job seems okay though, imo.

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Uh, no, wind is great for running around as well as PVP because you litterally walk faster than anyone else in combat without sprinting...



As far as worrying about monk nerfs...

If you mean strictly DPS nerf...
We've literally been getting Monk buffs throughout most of 3.0 so to worry about nerfs is pretty selfish.

If you're worried about rotational change...
You probably shouldn't as monk is fairly simple and there's really not much to streamline except maybe cross class skills. Like what could they do? I can do monk just fine with one controller hotbar + expanded and still have room for more. We don't have as much bloat abilities as others.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

As far as worrying about monk nerfs...

If you mean strictly DPS nerf...
We've literally been getting Monk buffs throughout most of 3.0 so to worry about nerfs is pretty selfish.

If you're worried about rotational change...
You probably shouldn't as monk is fairly simple and there's really not much to streamline except maybe cross class skills. Like what could they do? I can do monk just fine with one controller hotbar + expanded and still have room for more. We don't have as much bloat abilities as others.

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How is not wanting a damage nerf selfish? The jobs aren't supposed to be equal in damage and a nerf to that would mean there be even more reason to exclude monk from raid.

Also I wouldn't be so sure about not having rotational changes, all it would take is an extension of a few buffs and they could add a new ability for every form.

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

How is not wanting a damage nerf selfish? The jobs aren't supposed to be equal in damage and a nerf to that would mean there be even more reason to exclude monk from raid.

Also I wouldn't be so sure about not having rotational changes, all it would take is an extension of a few buffs and they could add a new ability for every form.

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I mean't the opposite. XD worrying about buffs when we've been getting buffs throughout 3.0. Sure we could use them and might even get em but i mean worrying about not getting them long before 4.0 seems silly and selfish to me.

Rotational changes, sure, but I mean at the core and also he's right Monk is at a great spot, why should it change much besides maybe another OCD or top(lvl 70) ability?

I don't understand how anyone who has played MNK since before 3.0 doesn't want a change to the rotation...

I think MNK is in a great spot right now too, but we didn't get any changes to rotation in 3.0, and I certainly want a change of pace in 4.0, and not just the same rotation that I can perform almost literally in my sleep now.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

I don't understand how anyone who has played MNK since before 3.0 doesn't want a change to the rotation...

I think MNK is in a great spot right now too, but we didn't get any changes to rotation in 3.0, and I certainly want a change of pace in 4.0, and not just the same rotation that I can perform almost literally in my sleep now.

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It's not a fear of change, it's a fear of dumbing down. I don't want DRG level brain-dead rotations, I want, at the very least, what we currently have or something similar with more depth.

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Originally Posted by SublimeIbanez

It's not a fear of change, it's a fear of dumbing down. I don't want DRG level brain-dead rotations, I want, at the very least, what we currently have or something similar with more depth.

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I don't want them dumbing it down either, but they said they wanted jobs to be more like in 2.X, and to be honest, MNK didn't get harder to play in 3.0, I would even say MNK got easier in a sense, so I'm not worrying too much about it.

Also, how is DRG's rotation brain-dead and MNK's not? MNK's rotation is the easiest in the game, and it's the most static there is also, you don't have to think about anything except timing for downtime.

MNK is FINE where it's at. It flows so nicely in fights once you get used to doing them. If anything I'd like them to add glowy hair that resembles a certain Super Saiyan. A dyeable, glowing, head piece that looks like hair... that glows.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

MNK is FINE where it's at. It flows so nicely in fights once you get used to doing them. If anything I'd like them to add glowy hair that resembles a certain Super Saiyan. A dyeable, glowing, head piece that looks like hair... that glows.

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Pretty much my whole point. I only added the other stuff just in CASE they were looking at changing anything; if they were, then those parts should be looked at first.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

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MNKs rotation is by all means not static, unless you're attacking only a strike-dummy. You shouldn't be use the basic side combo > finisher > rear combo > finisher. While this may pump out decent dps, you're by no means utilizing all the the class offers. The DRGs on the other hand, is static. the only "difficulties" with the class are the shear number of skills you use throughout a fight (29-ish or something like that). That class definitely needs to be reworked a tad bit to fit all of the buttons imo. Otherwise, you're sticking to your basic rotation with only new OGCDs and one final 4th move per combo. In fact, it's because of the combos and how they work on DRG that make it so simplistic.

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Originally Posted by SublimeIbanez

MNKs rotation is by all means not static, unless you're attacking only a strike-dummy. You shouldn't be use the basic side combo > finisher > rear combo > finisher. While this may pump out decent dps, you're by no means utilizing all the the class offers. The DRGs on the other hand, is static.

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Not sure what rotation you're doing but monk is just as static as DRG. Variation in the monk rotation comes from leaving the boss and the same is said for DRG.

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

Not sure what rotation you're doing but monk is just as static as DRG. Variation in the monk rotation comes from leaving the boss and the same is said for DRG.

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Depending on skill speed, with MNK, you may be able to fit in another BS > TrS. Also, you must be used to and ready to use BS > TwS, and alternatively DK > TrS, depending on how the fights go about as opposed to DRG whose rotation on the boss remains essentially the same. Not to mention the use of Fracture depending on DOT ticks.

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

Not sure what rotation you're doing but monk is just as static as DRG. Variation in the monk rotation comes from leaving the boss and the same is said for DRG.

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That's not accurate though, a monk's rotation can change over the course of a fight due to disengaging from the boss. Should you disengage for as long as it takes for Dragon Kick to fall off and cycle forward with form shift to compensate so you don't lose your stacks, your rotation goes from Dragon Kick>Twin Snakes>Third string>Bootshine>True Strike>Third String to Bootshine>Twin Snakes>Third String>Dragon Kick> True Strike>Third String. A dragoon will always go Heavy Thrust>Chaos Thrust Combo>Fourth String>Phlebotemize>Full Thrust Combo>Fourth String and repeat it.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

That's not accurate though, a monk's rotation can change over the course of a fight due to disengaging from the boss. Should you disengage for as long as it takes for Dragon Kick to fall off and cycle forward with form shift to compensate so you don't lose your stacks, your rotation goes from Dragon Kick>Twin Snakes>Third string>Bootshine>True Strike>Third String to Bootshine>Twin Snakes>Third String>Dragon Kick> True Strike>Third String. A dragoon will always go Heavy Thrust>Chaos Thrust Combo>Fourth String>Phlebotemize>Full Thrust Combo>Fourth String and repeat it.

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Even then, depending on the skill speed, you may even be able to fit 2 BS into 1 DK, which becomes more prominent if you get Arrow from an AST.

What I find a bit weird about the job is it's feels disconnected in it's skillset sometimes.

You have this wonderfull flow, or dance if you will, of blows, but have to interrupt it to build chakra stacks. If they could so something to include the chakra building into the flow of the job it would be awesome imho. Tornado Kick also somehow gets lost in translation unless you know when to use it. If you have constant uptime however, you probably won't use at all. It feels like a waste sometimes not to be able to use it.

Hmmm... now I'm wondering if they could maybe make chakra building by introducing channeled skills. Or give it in- and out of combat different effects, making it an oGCD with a small CD in combat so you can charge it in between skills. Meh, I'm rambeling... xD

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Originally Posted by SublimeIbanez

Even then, depending on the skill speed, you may even be able to fit 2 BS into 1 DK, which becomes more prominent if you get Arrow from an AST.

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That's not a viable way to play. Someone tried it once and they ended up letting dk fall a few times before reapplying and It was a really tight fit the entire time even on dummy, so it wouldn't work on an actual boss.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

That's not accurate though, a monk's rotation can change over the course of a fight due to disengaging from the boss. Should you disengage for as long as it takes for Dragon Kick to fall off and cycle forward with form shift to compensate so you don't lose your stacks, your rotation goes from Dragon Kick>Twin Snakes>Third string>Bootshine>True Strike>Third String to Bootshine>Twin Snakes>Third String>Dragon Kick> True Strike>Third String. A dragoon will always go Heavy Thrust>Chaos Thrust Combo>Fourth String>Phlebotemize>Full Thrust Combo>Fourth String and repeat it.

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No... when dealing with mechanics that cause you to stop attacking you could end up needing to use Heavy Thrust before your Full Thrust combo and Phlebotemize before the Chaos Thrust combo. It's literally the EXACT same situation with monk. Just like a monk will see a big loss from losing Twin snakes, a drg will see a big loss from losing heavy thrust. They BOTH have to reapply it asap when going back to the boss. And as for fracture, it's used vary rarely through out a fight if used correctly and i'd hardly consider it as adding variation in the way monk plays. I'd say maintenance of BoTD and the million oGCDs a drg has to use adds more of a varied experience than using fracture on monk. And the proper usage of geirsgokul adds for the most dynamic experience of all between the two imo.

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Originally Posted by SublimeIbanez

The only abilities I can think of that need any sort of adjustments are the other fists (earth and wind), One Ilm Punch, Featherfoot, and Haymaker. Also, a look into the meditation system would be nice.

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Just to add to this, from a purely PvP perspective Featherfoot, One Ilm Punch, and Fists of Earth / Wind are extremely useful and it would be a huge blow to PvP monks if they were removed or changed in any way.

In fact, just to drive this point home, removing Fists of Earth or Fists of Wind from Monk would be as devastating for Monks in PvP as removing Fists of Fire for PvE players.

From what I gather about them reworking classes to make them "easier" so they can make raid mechanics "harder" is that melee classes which require positionals to be relieved of them! That's what makes sense to me from that context.

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Originally Posted by Snickerzbar

From what I gather about them reworking classes to make them "easier" so they can make raid mechanics "harder" is that melee classes which require positionals to be relieved of them! That's what makes sense to me from that context.

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No they mean to remove the need to concentrate on a rotation, buff timers, dot timers, procs, and boss mechanics and tells all at the same time. That is where SE believes the issue lies. They definitely won't remove all of those things but they'll reduce the number of timers you need to watch for, split second decisions that you have to make on your rotation, and possibly the number of buttons you need to press. Most monks are worried that the job will be too easy or changed too much if they try to reduce the number of buttons we need to press but most are in favor of them reworking a lot of the "useless" skills. Useless meaning the skills that aren't used often in endgame content. I however, do not believe them to be useless and think it'd hurt the job more than it would benefit it. In other words positionals will remain because they aren't that difficult to execute on but the job may still end up getting easier.

Monk is the focus of the next expansion. All jobs are getting new abilities for 60-70. The class and battle systems are being reworked. I would think that if nothing else MNK would change the most. Not trying to be mean, but this could be a good thing.....I hope.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Meditation:snip

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This guy gets it and nailed it right on the head for making Chakra more useful and its the like combo points from WoW for the rogue and gives meaning to it.

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Originally Posted by Nagrom

Honestly if SE gives mnk anything in 4.0, I hope it's some utility. Outside dragon kick we offer nothing to a group but high dps and a dance performance.

Maybe something like a weak aura effect from the fist stances, or full effect under a trigger from refreshing grease lightning III. This way it would fall off from having to do mechanics or invincibility phases on a boss. If that's not a good enough balance, maybe tie it into tornado kick, so to trigger a party wide fist of fire buff, you have to lose your stacks. I'm sure some balance wizard could figure out how long such a party buff should last.

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Umm.... mantra? I mean I'm all good with more utility for monks - but you left out a big one imo.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

Umm.... mantra? I mean I'm all good with more utility for monks - but you left out a big one imo.

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Yeah but mantra is cross-class. I'm not arguing that the extra 5% isn't useful, but if I cross it onto my drg I get more utility. 2 stuns, a slow (for whatever that's worth), 2 dots, piercing debuff, increase crit for the party, and mantra. Its not that it was left out but since its a cross-class skill it just feels like its more beneficial if more jobs cross it, then taking a mnk because of it. Its not a consideration when choosing a mnk for a pt comp in terms of utility, i think is what she was getting at.

I'm admittedly speaking from minimal raiding experience, but Traited Mantra was a godsend in most pug experiences I had back in Coil days, and with any EX run. In an organized group I can see a AoE 20% healing buff being extra fluff, but when everyone is disorganized it can really bring things back in place. Or help fish stronger crits from Adlo if for some reason you don't have a War.

20% mantra is far more valuable in an organized group than a pug group. It becomes an extra CD that your healers can use. It's just not very useful outside of early prog at low gear levels so most groups don't consider taking a monk for it.

On the topic of new monk abilities, HW basically just added QoL abilities that only enhance the monk experience rather than change its rotation or the way it's played. If they continue this in stormblood then I'd like to see an ability that ignores all positionals requirements for about 10 sec. Not sure how long the CD would be but it'd would definitely enhance the experience.