Patch 3.38 Discussion

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic.

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I think that Mindset can be traced to the ease of getting a raid worthy weapon for 4 relatively easy trials and 1 somewhat hard one, and certain people not liking that.

now we'll start seeing threads complaining about the current step
and i hope we never see any need for high craft in the coming steps

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic. I'm going to go ahead and say it, it being equal to a raid weapon at that early point in the xpac is irrelevant (not to mention the fact that if you were a raider you got the 210 weapon way before the relic was out anyway and since you got it first, people having a 210 weapon later shouldn't matter), the relic steps should have been designed on the time of release, i.e. the first relic steps should have had an incremental difficulty increase from the beginning and gotten harder later. The excessive and painful grind should be saved for the mid to late stages, the earliest stages (up to the 210 point) should have been the easiest out of all them and THEN ramped up as you went to the 230 and to the 240.

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I concur with you on this.

My thought process is, "They put an achievement for every single individual Anima weapon and anima weapon step in the game. I need to get them all."

meh I'll wait till 3.4 and see if its worth coming back to the game. ATM I am enjoying Neverwinter MMO on the PS4... Hey what can I say it has a pretty awesome combat system and ITS FREE TO PLAY..... Yes its a dated game but they did get a few things right. Awesome guild system, awesome combat system (the hunter class in Neverwinter is what BRD should of been in FFXIV), sweet gearing system, sweet pvp system and last but not least Skill Points actually work with the build you are going for per class. Simply put FFXIV could really benefit from doing a little modifications on the current classes to make them really shine. BRD could easily become a pure dps class that can go from range to melee in one flip of a button while in combat.

Anyways have fun farming for your relic weapon in patch 3.8... I'll be on Neverwinter having a blast in pvp and pve as a hunter....:cool:

Huh... Didn't expect to be able to do 4 Anima weapons this morning... Shame I refuse to farm FATEs, can we nerf the Zodiac quests at some point? The whole Light farming aspect is redundant at this point, pre-3.0 it got people queuing for content to farm Light and boost queues, now I just enter Sastasha solo and burn through my sanity at an alarming rate... Never would have thought the Animus books would end up being my favorite part... Actually feels like I'm doing a quest of some sort, can't say the same for these Anima weapons... They're pretty much a glorified tomestone grind, there's no nuance involved in these quests... 2.#s quests weren't great by any measure, but at least there was some direction involved... Well, except Light farms...

Really hope they work solo trials either into the next step, or for 4.0 relics... We've been getting fairly consistently enjoyable solo trials in the MSQs, wouldn't be too hard to make a fairly challenging relic trial that actually makes these quests rewarding... 2.0s quest was rewarding, it felt great finally beating Titan and getting that damn weapon... Everything since? Meh...

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic. I'm going to go ahead and say it, it being equal to a raid weapon at that early point in the xpac is irrelevant (not to mention the fact that if you were a raider you got the 210 weapon way before the relic was out anyway and since you got it first, people having a 210 weapon later shouldn't matter), the relic steps should have been designed on the time of release, i.e. the first relic steps should have had an incremental difficulty increase from the beginning and gotten harder later. The excessive and painful grind should be saved for the mid to late stages, the earliest stages (up to the 210 point) should have been the easiest out of all them and THEN ramped up as you went to the 230 and to the 240.

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Tell that to the raiding community, who got incredibly butthurt when a similar thing happened with the Zodiac weapon.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

can we nerf the Zodiac quests at some point?

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If they nerfed it any more they would just give them to you >_>

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

If they nerfed it any more they would just give them to you >_>

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Might as well with the Light farming aspect... It's a complete joke at this point... At least the Animus books are either a fun solo challenge, or helping with Lv50 dungeon queues... Light farming is just a formality, the final one I'm somewhat OK with given it can be a single run per thing, but the original one? It was a terrible stage originally, now it's terrible-er... A step above FATE farming if only by virtue of the fact that blitzing through a dungeon solo is entertaining at least a few times...

Really hope 4.0 doesn't involve FATE or Light farming... Is it too much to ask for Relic quests to be somewhat epic? You're obtaining/forging a legendary weapon, it should be exciting, not a chore... If forging a sentient weapon doesn't conclude with a solo trial against said weapon, Balrahn style...

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Originally Posted by Majuri

Hello there!

I just read the patch notes and i've a problem (or doubt..) :confused:

I was taking my time to take the 80 objects needed for the Anima Weapon, and i was going for 1 at a time.

At this point i have something like 20 Bones, and 17 Seeds, what am i supposed to do with them?

(I only have 1 class at 60, and i don't think i'll ever do another Anima Weapon..)

Are they complete garbage at this point?

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I think they can be exchanged for Grade 5 Carbonized Matter in Idyllshire. Not much of a trade, but it's something.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

Maybe this will lower the AH price if those items are still there. Good thing I kept that penny and farthing from last week.

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Prices will probably come down if people buy with seals to sell them on the market. The mats for the actual crafted ones are probably still priced at a premium and may not be worth it in comparison. Diadem mats and Dawnborne Aethersand, so much easier to get the items via seals instead.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Might as well with the Light farming aspect... It's a complete joke at this point... At least the Animus books are either a fun solo challenge, or helping with Lv50 dungeon queues... Light farming is just a formality, the final one I'm somewhat OK with given it can be a single run per thing, but the original one? It was a terrible stage originally, now it's terrible-er... A step above FATE farming if only by virtue of the fact that blitzing through a dungeon solo is entertaining at least a few times...

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Light farming was a breath of fresh air compared to dungeon spamming and hoping for Zodiac drops. I did that step after the boosted drop rate ( but long before the automatic drops) and hated it THEN. I would have probably hurled my controller through the TV when it was fresh.

Funny story. While that step WAS fresh, but I wasn't playing the game yet, my nephew was over my house farming snowcloak for a drop. I think he was a couple hours in before I took over the TV in order to play Destiny, of all things. He didn't talk to me for a month after that. I thought it was retarded at first, but I was soon made to understand exactly why he was so assblasted; and in Snowcloak no less.

Seriously, screw that step...and Snowcloak too!</rant>

I just need them to leave out the f***ing crafted items. The A/B/S rank hunts for example could be made to drop stuff (no rng bs, make it 100% drops) and would make more sense. Even if people would be at each other's throats from early pullers.

Just no crafting please. Ever.

Now I'm kicking myself for not hoarding up more of those beast tribe tokens. I was expecting them to increase the token yield, not reduce the amounts needed >_>

I have 100 moogle tokens been using the beast tribe to level my crafters has the tokens changed for it?

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

Seriously, screw that step...and Snowcloak too!</rant>

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Eh, I hated pretty much all the Zodiac quests when they were fresh, with the sole exception of Alexandrite, though I hated the materia step (they're the same? Pfft, I enjoyed getting a map to do for my Relic, wish the Unidentifed items worked on a similar principle; beast tribe currency > get map in their stronghold > fight some trash > get unidentified item). It's pretty much been down hill since Titan, though nowadays? Animus books and the Zodiac drops... I quite enjoy... They're 100% drops so it feels like I'm actually doing a quest, though a lot of my enjoyment stems from the Undersized Party option; Soloing those dungeons ends up being a lot more fun than the new dungeons...

With the Anima quests I can't see the same happening... FATE grinds out right suck the life out of me, the 10 dungeons was probably the best we're getting (even if I can't solo the Vault, I can tank it as Summoner when the DF gets me a non-tank...), Unidentified items are a currency grind... Aetheroil or whatever? Currency grind, though Crystal Tower was a welcome change of pace. Umbrite? Currency grind... These stages aren't going to get better with age like spots in the Zodiac Saga did...

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Originally Posted by Dumbledoremd

I have 100 moogle tokens been using the beast tribe to level my crafters has the tokens changed for it?

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No. Max level moogles would let you get an unidentifiable every other day (9 tokens per day) and now Vanu and Vath are being made to work the same way (3 tokens per day, an unidentifiable every other day at 6 tokens.)

I have 20 of each unidentified on my alt. I waited to turn them in for news on this patch so now i have enough for two weapons. I still need crystals for a second and crafted items but that should be easy enough to get. I guess towers quests are in my future again for the oils.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

The anima step is now what it should have been from the very beginning.

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Couldn't agree more (especially when 230 is so easy and 240 is much less tedious)

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Originally Posted by Jas710

I just need them to leave out the f***ing crafted items. The A/B/S rank hunts for example could be made to drop stuff (no rng bs, make it 100% drops) and would make more sense. Even if people would be at each other's throats from early pullers.

Just no crafting please. Ever.

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You don't have to craft now. You can buy all the items with GC seals. Not to mention, the prices of these items will plummet on the MB now. So...

But still no new content...apart from raid,there is no many things to do,they should focus on content unstead of make everything easy.
I have a bitter taste now that i see people can get 240 weap that easy,guess i should go back to EVE.

i don't see the point, if you were waiting on a 210 nerf, then your going to be just as stuck on the 240 step. The 240 step is roughly 200 roullettes to finish + 80 sands. I guess you can wait until patch 3.58 for them to nerf the 240 step but by then who even cares?!? people will have lvl 270 weapons by then.

If your not willing to put in the work to do anima while it's relevant, your way better off getting the tome weapons regardless.

Yup, looks like I'll be doing crystal tower quests again every week.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

i don't see the point, if you were waiting on a 210 nerf, then your going to be just as stuck on the 240 step.

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I dont see the point of mindless grind for months for having a 210 weapon, if you can have a (better) 235+ weapon within a few days or weeks. Be smart, be patient.

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Originally Posted by Valknut

If changing a relic step is a whole patch... I'm gonna be looking for a new game.

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Do you understand the concept of a patch that is an increment in the hundred decimal place? Especially one that increased by 3.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic. I'm going to go ahead and say it, it being equal to a raid weapon at that early point in the xpac is irrelevant (not to mention the fact that if you were a raider you got the 210 weapon way before the relic was out anyway and since you got it first, people having a 210 weapon later shouldn't matter), the relic steps should have been designed on the time of release, i.e. the first relic steps should have had an incremental difficulty increase from the beginning and gotten harder later. The excessive and painful grind should be saved for the mid to late stages, the earliest stages (up to the 210 point) should have been the easiest out of all them and THEN ramped up as you went to the 230 and to the 240.

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I don't understand this mindset at all. Why does the point in the expansion pack have any bearing whatsoever? Are you saying that the final Relic OR Raid weapon in an expansion pack is somehow "ultimate" in any way? Of course it isn't - it, too, will be rendered obsolete by the next expansion pack, just a few months later.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between the 210 weapon, the 240, weapon, the 270 weapon, and whatever ilvl the first endgame weapon in the next expansion pack will be. They are ALL "ultimate" weapons for the narrow frame of time that they top the list, which means making any of them easy to get is a terrible idea.

I might be willing to grant that they waited too long to apply the nerf to this stage, but for the 210 stage to be as rough as it was was entirely reasonable. It was troublesome enough to get folks enthusiastic about the hellishly difficult Alexander Gordius Savage raids (whether Savage was too difficult or not is a debate for another thread); allowing for an easily-accessed 210 weapon would have been the nail in the coffin.

Bottom line, it's a mistake to think of any stage of the relic weapon to be just another step in the process to some ultimate stage that hasn't been implemented yet. Whatever the final stage is at any given time - THAT is the ultimate Relic weapon.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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I do believe that whatever weapon you get at the very end of the relic grind should be special in some way. Now obviously it will be replaceable, but for all the work that went in to it? Then yes I think it needs something special about it visually at the very least on top of whatever title I'm sure will accompany it. I also don't think it's a mistake to view each relic as a step in a process because every relic IS a step in a process towards the next one outside of whatever the penultimate last step is and I do think they should be designed with that in mind. Finally, I still believe that the difficulty curve for the relic should have been a steady incremental climb rather than what they implemented.

The 210 step should have been made easier, the 230 step should have been more difficult, the 240 step more difficult than that, the next ilevel more difficult than that and so on and so forth. There would have been absolutely nothing wrong with them making the 210 an easier step than it was followed by ramping up the difficulty (again, in increments, not exponentially) if you wanted to keep building up that weapon.

I love how some people still hate the amount it requires. Reminds me of the book nerf with the 2.x relics, soon we probably get 1 item requirement, please look forward to it, hai. On a serious note, I do love it for my alts since I've grinded more than one weapon on my main, I wasn't planning doing it on any other character/job. But with the changes I don't mind getting another one :)

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

I dont see the point of mindless grind for months for having a 210 weapon, if you can have a (better) 235+ weapon within a few days or weeks. Be smart, be patient.

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Exactly, which is kinda why i think this nerf is really dumb. You can get a gimp rusty old relic that was only good in 3.1 or you can do palace of the dead for a weapon 25 item levels higher..... what is the point in this nerf in the first place?

The only people that really benefit are people that just recently joined the game, aren't we-wants, and would actually be willing to do the 240 step pre-nerf. Which i'd imagine is a small percentage.

I give it roughly 2 weeks before we get a flood of "ermergerd, the 240 step is too hard" threads. Meanwhile, I'm already done with my 240 anima because i didn't wait for nerfs.

The length of the steps is usually related to the savage raid and unless they change how they tune that I doubt it would be any different the next time around.

230 being more difficult than 210 would have been pointless since the 230 tome weapon was released around the same time (if you kept up with the gears) which is why it wasn't as crushing as the 210 step. It would run into the same problem as the 210, not being worth the effort to many people.

When 240 was released the only other way to get that ilvl weapon was to beat A7S. They have less reasons to nerf it right now because of custom stats and it's a bit better than a stock 240 weapon (3 tier V materia melded additional stats vs 2 slots on stock tome 240 that you have to pay for yourself IIRC) even if the upgrade item is out now without requiring A7S. It's definitely a miniscule difference though.

Perhaps they should have slowly nerfed it like the zodiac was in increments instead of butchering it in one go if they were just going to nerf it eventually.

The relic being the way it is also gives some relevance to EX primal weapons as in between weapons or even upgrades if you don't bother doing the relic at all. 210 slog vs Seph 220 weapon. 240 slog vs 235 nidhogg weapon.

They might be more open to nerfing the 240 step sooner since the savage weapon this time around is 245. Who knows though.

I'm excited about this. I've had an Awoken Atlas sitting on a retainer for ages waiting for me to get done with my WAR and SCH relics, then when my raid team needed me to MT, I got a PLD relic too. As someone who is working on getting a third relic to 240, I'm really happy about this nerf. It's so good I'll probably get a few more relics I wanted but couldn't bear to grind through this step to get.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

The 210 step should have been made easier, the 230 step should have been more difficult, the 240 step more difficult than that, the next ilevel more difficult than that and so on and so forth. There would have been absolutely nothing wrong with them making the 210 an easier step than it was followed by ramping up the difficulty (again, in increments, not exponentially) if you wanted to keep building up that weapon.

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At the time, 210 was the max ilvl. It HAD to be brutal. Like the other poster said, Gordias was already tearing the raiding community a new butthole, and you want to undermine them by handing out a welfare 210 weapon several months before the usual catch up patch? That wouldn't be fair to those players.

Granted, they later admitted that entire patch cycle was a mistake and that the gordian weapon should have been 215, but it's not like the way it went down wasn't understandable

Ah yes, thank you square for making me waste two months and burning out on your game... Ugh

Things are now how they should have been from the start aside the weekly limitation of the midan gears. That is, it should have been 4 weeks instead of 7 right from the start.But now its too late, this is the problem with the game, making more accesible irrelevant content is not a good thing, they need to make more accesible relevant content. If these were have been the conditions for the relics right off the bat, all those quest and progress would be repeated and live much longer, be much more active, since with ease of access also comes replayability. People would repeat the quests several times if they were just half as long, making content to be relevant and alive for much longer.

Now is too late. This game greatest design flaw. Content gets irrelevant too quickly, content takes too long to access, and afraid of people "burning through content" they make it so it takes too long, killing any chance of replayablity since by the end of 1 "walkthrough" people is just done and probably is something better coming soon anyway.

Is what dead palace is going to face now... The whole reward balance of this game is messed up. Is taking its toll in the game, its population health and its capability to retain people... Grind needs to slowdown, be cut at least in half and the relevance of gear needs to be extended...

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

Like the other poster said, Gordias was already tearing the raiding community a new butthole, and you want to undermine them by handing out a welfare 210 weapon several months before the usual catch up patch?

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Why can there never be any nuance? There can be a spot between "brutal" and "welfare." Asking for something to be easier than it is doesn't mean wanting it to be given away.

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i don't see the point, if you were waiting on a 210 nerf, then your going to be just as stuck on the 240 step.

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Not necessarily. It's a whole lot easier to get through the 210 step now without needing to spend esoterics on it, allowing more of them to be saved for umbrites.

I noticed in advance that I'd need a ton of umbrites and only esoterics could buy them, so I've been reserving esos for that... but that cost of that was that it slowed down progress on the i210 step. That isn't a concern anymore.

I did my relic 210 before this nerf but I'm not upset about it, cause I didn't burn through it and did it at my own pace.

I skipped the Anima relic and went straight up to Padjali weapons. 210 is only good for glamour at this point.

I guess my only real complaint other than the amount of notice time is that the marketboard items are obtainable literally without spending any gil now and they don't even have to be HQ. I double checked the 2.0 relic just to see and you have to buy the old HQ items still, there is no other way.

I'm by no means poor but if I knew the items would be obtainable later on without spending any gil, that would have been my priority regardless of the wait time simply so I could upgrade other classes and my crafting. Basically for the next relic assuming their will be, avoid any and all gil spending steps like the plague or just avoid it all together till its nerfed into oblivion like the 2.0 one. We all know its just going to be glamour at some point.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Things are now how they should have been from the start aside the weekly limitation of the midan gears. That is, it should have been 4 weeks instead of 7 right from the start.But now its too late, this is the problem with the game, making more accesible irrelevant content is not a good thing, they need to make more accesible relevant content. If these were have been the conditions for the relics right off the bat, all those quest and progress would be repeated and live much longer, be much more active, since with ease of access also comes replayability. People would repeat the quests several times if they were just half as long, making content to be relevant and alive for much longer.

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Why is it too late? With the addition of being able to upgrade the lore weapon to 240 it is timed just right to uncap the Midan Gear so people can get all the gears they need to get the weapon without waiting for 7 weeks. It still take little over 2 weeks to get it as the 1000 lore cost is still there.

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

Why is it too late? With the addition of being able to upgrade the lore weapon to 240 it is timed just right to uncap the Midan Gear so people can get all the gears they need to get the weapon without waiting for 7 weeks. It still take little over 2 weeks to get it as the 1000 lore cost is still there.

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These i240 weapons will become obsolete in 6-7 weeks with the release of 3.4. (My speculation though but it should be somewhere around that time frame.)

I agree, though. If these quests for relics weren't so damned grindy, I'd do them multiple times. The way it is now should have been how it was in the very beginning. I see no reason why we can't go back to the way 2.0 handled the relic weapons quests. (You know, the ones that made you do Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan HM when the highest item level was 90/95 and most people probably had Darklight gear at i70.)