Hullbreaker HM is an example of how dungeons shouldn't be designed.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I don't know why people are complaining about gates now when they been shoving them in every dungeon ever since the shenanigans of Brayflox Longstop hard mode.

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I still PASSIONATELY hate that dungeon to this day. Like, it's the sole reason I just ignore lv 50 roulette.

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Originally Posted by Altanas

8089089

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Keeper of the Lake's final boss had the AOE spam you love and as a caster/healer, I absolutely hated it.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

that the dungeon allows people to play their designated roles due to the gates between monsters

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"designated role" because all what HBHM encourages is this
http://puu.sh/pDrJh.png

Also on the "play their designated role", we know well theres a lot of dps that can't break 500 dps while playing their "designated role".

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I don't see anything wrong with Hullbreaker HM. I'm sorry (not sorry) that the dungeon allows people to play their designated roles due to the gates between monsters. The first boss encounter is a nice change of pace (and don't act like gauntlets haven't been used as boss encounters in other games). Ymir's only really a pest when it comes to timing casts and Wildfire. While Mistbeard's not quite as harrowing as Hraesvelgr, he does put up a decent fight.

To the thread starter: Not every aspect of XIV needs to be Alexander Savage.

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I am not sure what you mean by the gates allowing people to play their designated roles? Do you mean that if there are not gates then tanks are not allowed to tank, dps are not allowed to do damage or healers are not allowed to heal? Or was this a sarcastic remark in that with the gates up there is very little to no healing required 'forcing' healers into DPSing more or idling?

No dungeon in the game is even as difficult as Alexander Normal, so I am not sure why you are using such a hyperbolic statement. If they increased the difficulty by 200%, you wouldn't be anywhere near Savage level difficulty.

Regardless, the ease of Hullbreaker HM isn't really why it sucks. It's just extremely boring. The colour pallete is lame (I really dislike the washed out colors vs the bright colors of Hullbreaker NM), the music is dreadful (loved NM), the boss mechanics aren't fun to perform. It's literally just like a path with a bunch of dummy fights. If you find doing your combination of skills fun in and of itself, then yes it is fun - as is every combat-based encounter in the game. If you want an encounter that has great visuals, great music, an engaging story and interesting mechanics, then look somewhere else.

I agree, and it's even more insulting because it was a faceroll from day one. I can honestly say I enjoyed, or at least found challenging, every other dungeon in game. This one is just bad all around.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Because it's pretty much trash mobs, the boss. There's one mechanic to it and that's the Coeurl.

I don't mind gauntlet type fights (T4 is fantastic), but making them the equivalent of trash mobs with one 'mechanic' isn't very interesting.

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I don't mind it. I think it's a bit of a breather between "stand there and attack for three minutes".

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

1. Bland layout and/or concept.

It's basically Halatali HM(which was also boring imo) but on Gilligan's island.

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Hullbreaker HM and Halatali HM are two of my favorite dungeons in the game, at least in the top 5. My personal preference, I'm glad these exist. Hull-hard is very pretty and has a nice relaxed feel with its music and fighting the Maelstrom instead of void demons or something. I want this change of pace sometimes. It being a linear straight line would be my only real complaint but that applies to most dungeons. It will take more runs than most dungeons for me to get tired of this one.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

"designated role" because all what HBHM encourages is this
http://puu.sh/pDrJh.png

Also on the "play their designated role", we know well theres a lot of dps that can't break 500 dps while playing their "designated role".

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Unless you think of us as idiots....The icons were photoshoped to be all Red for DPS when there is a Dark Knight there and a White Mage.
And about the 500 dps... If people actualy put effort in giving a shit about the dungeons, they would be done faster, but we have to deal with Solo combo Dragoons, monks and etc. At least i do give a shit, and i use every class in the game (Except for Warrior (lvl 54) and Scholar which i can't get the hang of) and when going with my friends, dungeons take less 10 minutes than they take with pugs.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I am not sure what you mean by the gates allowing people to play their designated roles? Do you mean that if there are not gates then tanks are not allowed to tank, dps are not allowed to do damage or healers are not allowed to heal? Or was this a sarcastic remark in that with the gates up there is very little to no healing required 'forcing' healers into DPSing more or idling?

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I think its more that DPS can do their proper ST rotations on something other then a boss mob. Instead of just sitting there spamming the few AoEs you have as something like a melee DPS.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

I think its more that DPS can do their proper ST rotations on something other then a boss mob. Instead of just sitting there spamming the few AoEs you have as something like a melee DPS.

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Yep, because recently most Dungeons is basicly " Tank everything, AoE everything"

I had a tank call me bad when i was healing as Ast because i was healing him non stop and didn't used any Gravity to clear mobs.... So He... a Warrior that is hard as hell to heal, wants me to damage mobs while he is being attacked by almost 15 mobs... Right...

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Originally Posted by Ashewalker

Unless you think of us as idiots....The icons were photoshoped to be all Red for DPS when there is a Dark Knight there and a White Mage.

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http://puu.sh/pDv7D.png

This amount of gating doesn't encourage healing or tanking, only dps from all the 4 members in the party.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

I think its more that DPS can do their proper ST rotations on something other then a boss mob. Instead of just sitting there spamming the few AoEs you have as something like a melee DPS.

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I see, but that isn't doing your designated role - AoE and Single target are both damage, which is your role. I guess he meant everyone can do their proper rotations?

That said, as a SMN, I feel that AoE is more involved that single target -> it adds nuances like if we reach 4 guys Blizz 2 = Ruin III, but Ruin III is better at 3 guys etc.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

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Personally i even feel holy was nerfed, if i used it on these tiny pulls i'll go oom for almost no damage done at all vs using it on groups of 4+ mobs.

What some people on this thread don't seem to understand is that gating is the laziest way of limiting pulls, it has nothing to do with "i like this" or not. They can make mechanics where mobs can't be paired together or they do x mechanics after a while or just add mobs that hit so hard that they can't be pulled in large amounts.
Gating just forces the player to play the game at the dev pace and that is wrong, if i'm on a premade party or even on a pug party with people full of i240 gear i'm not going to want baby pulls for people at minimum ilvl.

I'm not even talking of challenging content as dungeons are daily content, if i want challenges i'll go to savage or ex primals. What i'm talking about is fun and this new trend of gates on every pull with hp sponges that do nothing but auto attack and a occasional cone is far from fun.

And there I thought Antitower and Neverreap were the worst, here comes a new challenger!

Why can't we have more dungeons like Brayflox HM....that dungeon was quick, enjoyable (because it was quick), and barely any gates.

Making a dungeon last 20-30 minutes by limiting pulls isn't fun....

You should look at these dungeons as "Is this something I want to spam 1-2 times a day?", because in that regard, Hullbreaker(HM) is built very well. Putting too much or making a dungeon longer just for the sake of making things "unique" is what people will like the first few days, then absolutely get sick of it later.

Different strokes for different folks. I like my dungeons to have a little fight in them (I loved Pharos Sirius back in 2.1 and frequently ran it, teaching newbies the mechanics and etc). Hullbreaker HM is about as boring as Tam-Tara HM (don't get me wrong, I loved the story there, but the bosses themselves were very boring. First boss: stack behind her, tank and spank. Second boss: tank and spank, touch balls. Final boss: tank and spank, kill adds).

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You should look at these dungeons as "Is this something I want to spam 1-2 times a day?", because in that regard, Hullbreaker(HM) is built very well. Putting too much or making a dungeon longer just for the sake of making things "unique" is what people will like the first few days, then absolutely get sick of it later.

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Personally, I'd rather have something that I like for 2 days and then hate, than something i hate immediately and continue to hate. This whole thread got me thinking of which dungeons I prefer, so I made my list. Below is my order of preference (though I am sure it changes slightly based off mood, class played etc). Green = I enjoy them, Yellow = meh, Red = I dislike them.

Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
Sohr Khai
Haukke Manor
The Antitower
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
Brayflox's Longstop
Haukke Manor (Hard)
Hullbreaker Isle
The Aetherochemical Research Facility
The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
The Wanderer's Palace
Amdapor Keep (Hard)
Sastasha (Hard)
Neverreap
The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)
Halatali (Hard)
Copperbell Mines (Hard)
The Fractal Continuum
Amdapor Keep
Sastasha
The Vault
Copperbell Mines
The Great Gubal Library
Pharos Sirius
The Keeper of the Lake
The Lost City of Amdapor
Dzemael Darkhold
Sohm Al
Halatali
The Aery
The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
The Sunken Temple of Qarn
Cutter's Cry
The Tam-Tara Deepcroft
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak
Snowcloak
The Dusk Vigil
The Stone Vigil (Hard)
The Stone Vigil
Hullbreaker Isle (Hard)
The Aurum Vale
Saint Mocianne's Arboretum
Pharos Sirius (Hard)

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

And there I thought Antitower and Neverreap were the worst, here comes a new challenger!

Why can't we have more dungeons like Brayflox HM....that dungeon was quick, enjoyable (because it was quick), and barely any gates.

Making a dungeon last 20-30 minutes by limiting pulls isn't fun....

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Because devs don't like it when A) things are cleared faster than intended and B) one dungeon gets farmed so much that no one else runs the others.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Personally, I'd rather have something that I like for 2 days and then hate, than something i hate immediately and continue to hate. This whole thread got me thinking of which dungeons I prefer, so I made my list. Below is my order of preference (though I am sure it changes slightly based off mood, class played etc). Green = I enjoy them, Yellow = meh, Red = I dislike them.

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It is funny that the ones you put in red have more of the unique mechanics or puzzles to them than most of the ones you put in the green.

I have no idea what you're talking about I love Hullbreaker HM, not because it's a nice dungeon but because it takes minutes to run. Can you say Brayflox HM 2.0?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is funny that the ones you put in red have more of the unique mechanics or puzzles to them than most of the ones you put in the green.

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It's all down to personal opinion about what they enjoy. Atmosphere, music and story are very important to my enjoyment. I also find that the ones in green have more engaging and interesting encounters.

I am not sure why you think the ones I mentioned do not have unique mechanics etc., but here is a list of some of them below for each.

Having a puzzle is not good in and of itself, it needs to be done well. Puzzles in Qarn, for example, are neither interesting not engaging. I'd say many of the boss fights have pretty interesting and unique mechanics though. For some examples:
Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard) - great background story, boss fights have some mechanics i.e. eating orbs etc.
Sohr Khai - This is very mechanic heavy in all 3 bosses, with moving moogles out of the purple, placing the lightning in the right area on the pegasus and the pads system on the final boss
Haukke Manor - This is like the only dungeon in the game that is not a linear path, it's the first boss that really had mechanics to handle as well
The Antitower - This I mostly enjoy for the great atmosphere, but there are some interesting mechanics on all 3 bosses
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard) - The final boss required a great timing of LB, the only time that LB actually matters in DF. Placement of yourself to bait aoes/attacks and dodge aoes was important on the first two bosses
Brayflox's Longstop - protecting brayflox, killing add in time, breaking people out of water, moving final boss out of regen etc.
Haukke Manor (Hard) - loved the music here (and in other places that used it) and the atmosphere. First two bosses had interesting mechanics until we just out-geared it
Hullbreaker Isle - banana's on first boss, hiding in water on 2nd boss, kraken is a very unique boss fight
The Aetherochemical Research Facility - loved the story, atmosphere and music of this place. Mechanics were pretty light, but kind of gave you a preview of mechanics to come throughout 3.x
The Wanderer's Palace (Hard) - This had mechanics throughout with moving out of the totems, then eating the right colour on the 2nd boss, and moving the boss properly in the final encounter
The Wanderer's Palace - Keeping ahead of the Tonberry was an interesting mechanic, kind of the opposite of gating with walls actually.
Amdapor Keep (Hard) - First Boss, Zelda amiright? But really, needing to dodge behind statues, not stand near statues to bait aoe, moving close to reduce damage on charge etc. And that is just boss#1
Sastasha (Hard) - This pirate fight was much better than the pirate fight in Hullbreaker, with the shooting that is interrupted by damage and the constant adds showing up. Kraken also a unique encounter.
Neverreap - This was really unique with the bird boss at the start disappearing and having to find it, killing the 'adds' in time etc. 2nd boss where mechanics matter more than DPS. Final boss had an invincibility maneuver with tornadoes - quite a few unique ones here.
The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard) - Final boss requires killing 3x with standing in the Cure move to reduce amount healed, first boss requiring you look away or you AoE your whole team etc.

I just touched on a few in each, there are plenty of mechanics in all of them. Each of them have way more involvement than anything Hullbreaker Hard brings.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

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Based on your list, here's mine:

Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
Sohr Khai
Haukke Manor
The Antitower
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
Brayflox's Longstop
Haukke Manor (Hard)
Hullbreaker Isle
The Aetherochemical Research Facility
The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
The Wanderer's Palace
Amdapor Keep (Hard)
Sastasha (Hard)
Neverreap
The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)
Halatali (Hard)
Copperbell Mines (Hard)
The Fractal Continuum
Amdapor Keep
Sastasha
The Vault
Copperbell Mines
The Great Gubal Library
Pharos Sirius
The Keeper of the Lake
The Lost City of Amdapor
Sohm Al
Halatali
The Aery
The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
The Sunken Temple of Qarn
Cutter's Cry
The Tam-Tara Deepcroft
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak
Snowcloak
The Dusk Vigil
The Stone Vigil (Hard)
The Stone Vigil
Hullbreaker Isle (Hard)
The Aurum Vale
Saint Mocianne's Arboretum
Pharos Sirius (Hard)

Dzemael Darkhold

I'm leveling my WAR, and my daily leveling roulette consists of Dzemael Darkhold ever since I hit 44 :(

The main thing I dislike about Hallbreaker HM is the obvious and excessive gates. Off the top of my head, I believe there's only one pull where you can pull more than one group at a time. I'm fine with gates, but the excessive use of it in Hullbreaker make the dungeon feel even more linear than it already is. The mobs don't do anything particularly dangerous by themselves, so just doing it all one at a time makes it feel boring.

Its not the worst dungeon though. The weakest one we've received in Heavensward so far? Arguably, yes.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Based on your list, here's mine:

Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
Sohr Khai
Haukke Manor
The Antitower
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
Brayflox's Longstop
Haukke Manor (Hard)
Hullbreaker Isle
The Aetherochemical Research Facility
The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
The Wanderer's Palace
Amdapor Keep (Hard)
Sastasha (Hard)
Neverreap
The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)
Halatali (Hard)
Copperbell Mines (Hard)
The Fractal Continuum
Amdapor Keep
Sastasha
The Vault
Copperbell Mines
The Great Gubal Library
Pharos Sirius
The Keeper of the Lake
The Lost City of Amdapor
Sohm Al
Halatali
The Aery
The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
The Sunken Temple of Qarn
Cutter's Cry
The Tam-Tara Deepcroft
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak
Snowcloak
The Dusk Vigil
The Stone Vigil (Hard)
The Stone Vigil
Hullbreaker Isle (Hard)
The Aurum Vale
Saint Mocianne's Arboretum
Pharos Sirius (Hard)

Dzemael Darkhold

I'm leveling my WAR, and my daily leveling roulette consists of Dzemael Darkhold ever since I hit 44 :(

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haha nice, I like that you enjoy almost all of the dungeons :) That is good to see!

I also listed mine in order of preference (where Tam Tara Hard is my favourite dungeon). Is yours ordered, because it looks like the same order as mine :P

Oh yeah, I forgot that I really enjoyed Aetherochemical and Fractal, too, since I love anything that has to do with the Allagans. That's more of a personal preference, though. Also, I love both of their music tracks.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Is yours ordered, because it looks like the same order as mine :P

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Oops, no it's not :P
I like all of the dungeons, but if I have to pick a favorite it would probably be The Aery.
I think it's because it left an impression on me when I first run it. And I love the BGM ;o;

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Oops, no it's not :P
I like all of the dungeons, but if I have to pick a favorite it would probably be The Aery.
I think it's because it left an impression on me when I first run it. And I love the BGM ;o;

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The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard) for the music, it's awesome.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard) for the music, it's awesome.

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Yes! So pretty! You know what, this is why I love most dungeons. I'm always humming along the BGM.

Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
Sohr Khai
Haukke Manor
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
Brayflox's Longstop
Haukke Manor (Hard)
Hullbreaker Isle
The Aetherochemical Research Facility
The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
The Wanderer's Palace
Amdapor Keep (Hard)
Sastasha (Hard)
The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)
Halatali (Hard)
Copperbell Mines (Hard)
The Fractal Continuum
Amdapor Keep
Sastasha
The Vault
Copperbell Mines
The Great Gubal Library
Pharos Sirius
The Keeper of the Lake
The Lost City of Amdapor
Sohm Al
Halatali
The Aery
The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
The Sunken Temple of Qarn
Cutter's Cry
The Tam-Tara Deepcroft
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak
Snowcloak
The Dusk Vigil
The Stone Vigil (Hard)
The Stone Vigil
Hullbreaker Isle (Hard)
The Aurum Vale
Saint Mocianne's Arboretum
Pharos Sirius (Hard)
The Antitower: Because... Calcabrina gives me the F.ing chills.... freaks me out...
Neverreap: Had to run it so many times that i got to hate it... And i was once called a bot in it because i would use BLM lvl 50 rotation on normal mobs, this included Fire II.

hullbreaker was only real disappaointment for me in 3.3 patch it was way to easy havent even seen a person die there yet

I like it. I like it much more for the sense of story. Pretty much you are being tested in a trial, yet you are too strong and much stronger than anything they throw at you thus intentionally making the dungeon super easy and bland for some.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

hullbreaker was only real disappaointment for me in 3.3 patch it was way to easy havent even seen a person die there yet

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The fact that people can die doesn't make a dungeon better. It's patch 3.3 already, people dying in a dungeon should be rare. We should be ready to dodge and look out for mechanics.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I don't know why people are complaining about gates now when they been shoving them in every dungeon ever since the shenanigans of Brayflox Longstop hard mode.

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Indeed...and now the obligatory "this is why..." comment;

The players cannot be trusted to play things without trying to find an exploit for speed, so put gates in their way to prevent speed run abuse. or in other words;
Speed runs thru Brayflox Longstop HM is why we can't have nice things...

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

The fact that people can die doesn't make a dungeon better. It's patch 3.3 already, people dying in a dungeon should be rare. We should be ready to dodge and look out for mechanics.

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You would think that is the case....

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

The fact that people can die doesn't make a dungeon better. It's patch 3.3 already, people dying in a dungeon should be rare. We should be ready to dodge and look out for mechanics.

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was using the fact i havent seen any1 die to show how easy it is lol its called hullbreaker hm should atleast have some tough fights til people get used to mechanics :P

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

was using the fact i havent seen any1 die to show how easy it is lol its called hullbreaker hm should atleast have some tough fights til people get used to mechanics :P

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Except these are mainstream dungeons, thus they are easy if you at least pay attention. The only reason you'd die is if you or your team are botching too many things. Hard mode dungeons haven't been "hard" at all. You want to see player deaths? Do a raid.

sorry dude but I like halatali hard, have done expert roulette like 2 times so I can't tell what I feel about the new dungeons yet.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

was using the fact i havent seen any1 die to show how easy it is lol its called hullbreaker hm should atleast have some tough fights til people get used to mechanics :P

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would you rather have them name it; summer training camp at hullbreaker island.

the calamari makes it all worthwhile

Minus the last boss I don't think it's too easy. The overall pace of the fight is really slow and the music removes any real sense of urgency to the battle. While tanking it earlier today I just pulled him to one corner and sort of zoned out without even realizing it, I can't do that in sohr kai.