Question to healers

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I think you meant SCH, not SMN? That said, I have all 3 healers at 60 and DPS with all 3 healers (the least with AST, as I am the least comfortable with that one). WHM has a very strong DPS toolkit.

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I was talking about your fairy not dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

I was talking about your fairy not dpsing.

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When were you talking about my fairy not DPSing? I am confused :\

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

When were you talking about my fairy not DPSing? I am confused :\

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Sch have fairies to help heal while they dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

I play whm but I see people coming in with replies "but I do this as sch" obviously you have a slightly different toolset.

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Yeah, WHM has a massive AoE stun that SCH doesn't have. That in and of itself opens up huge DPS windows.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Sch have fairies to help heal while they dpsing.

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Oh I see, I don't think you actually said that though ;) That aside, I mentioned that I heal and DPS on WHM - > WHM has very strong DPS capabilities and HoTs/Stuns to help them DPS longer.

From what I get from these thread from start (of other threads also) to current is people complained that healers didn't dps they were lazy if they didn't dps so I do see less people against it and more healers dpsing but it just seems now that people still want them to pump out even more dps cause what they doing it not good enough. I may be wrong and just viewing it differently.

The way I view it is that you are all a team and have a goal, your primary role is to heal but you are given DPS capabilities. A DPS's primary role is to DPS but is given support capabilities etc. Everyone should do what they can to complete their goal as effectively as possible. If your goal is to kill a boss, DPSing the boss helps - so do it.

The only reason players view healers who don't DPS as lazy is because healing in this game is very lightly tuned - resulting in non-DPSing healers to stand idle and do nothing. My pet, as you mentioned, can solo heal trash and bosses almost fully in expert dungeons. My pet has roughly 200 potency heals and is upped to 280 for 20s every minute. That's on average about 225 potency heals every 3 seconds. Regen, conversely, will do 150 potency every 3 seconds - except when Divine Sealed which bumps that to 195 for 15s - so 160 potency every 3 seconds. While less, that still means that regen alone should keep your tank alive - with only minimal needs to pop out of cleric and cast a cure. That means that over the course of a pull, you may cast 2-5 healing spells which works out to maybe 16% of the pull. That leaves 84% of the pull where you are doing nothing, but watching. That's a lot of time that you can get out some very significant DPS.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

My pet has roughly 200 potency heals and is upped to 280 for 20s every minute. That's on average about 225 potency heals every 3 seconds.

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Embrace is 300 potency and Rouse adds 40%. Add to that the fact that you can utilize skills like Fey Illumination and Whispering Dawn, meaning you can practically live in Cleric Stance even in big pulls if you use them along with buffs like e4e.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Embrace is 300 potency and Rouse adds 40%. Add to that the fact that you can utilize skills like Fey Illumination and Whispering Dawn, meaning you can practically live in Cleric Stance even in big pulls if you use them along with buffs like e4e.

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Embrace is 300 pet potency, which is equivalent to 200 player potency. Whispering Dawn and fey Illum are rarely needed in Expert, but I use them sometimes for sure. Shadowflare is another big one - but WHM has both E4E and Holy.

I evaluate: 1) how much damage the tank is taking, 2) how much my fairy can handle by herself, 3) how quickly mobs are dying. Unless the tank and/or dps are really bad I can pretty much stay in cleric stance for entire dungeons, maybe popping out of cleric to toss an adlo and a few lustrates for big pulls if rouse is not enough to keep the tank up (maybe Eos can handle them solo with buffs but I very rarely use her). Even on the new, slightly undergeared scholar I an playing on a different server, I am sure enough of my abilities to know where to dps, when to stop, and if I should mitigate or heal. Almost lv50 and the few deaths that happened in my dungeon runs were not from my own negligence, but their own stupidity (the derpagoon instinct to stand in bad...)

I'm not as comfortable playing whm and ast however so unless I want to go with a well-timed tetra/essential dignity I'll rarely let tanks drop below 30-50% on those two classes.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Embrace is 300 potency and Rouse adds 40%. Add to that the fact that you can utilize skills like Fey Illumination and Whispering Dawn, meaning you can practically live in Cleric Stance even in big pulls if you use them along with buffs like e4e.

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Going further from what Kaurie said(She's also correct about pet potency nerf from 50 to 60), who uses Eos in Expert? xD Selene is your go to for speed runs and she handles the damage like a champ on her own (cool downs from a decent tank be willing.) In the new Dungeons she's also able to silence Banish III from the light sprites and other random trash mobs as well as a free AOE esuna, saving you a fair amount of GCDs that would have been spent healing or an aetherflow towards Indom instead of Energy Drain.

I don't do this because this is not my playstyle as a healer. I'm a very risk adverse person so will keep all dps full and typically stoneskinned and the tank above 70% if possible. If the tank is particularly competent, I will let them go to 50% but not lower.

This may sound bad to some people, but I prefer to be sure no one dies than to add my own dps and then have to rez someone. If a group wants me to dps more, then the following should happen:

1. DPS should move out of AEs or scripted events that cause massive damage. If the DPS is good at this, I can dps more and worry about them less.
2. The tanks should be using defensive cooldowns on pulls. A lot of times they don't use any at all until bosses. Therefore their hp plummets and I can't safely go into Cleric until there are only 1 or 2 mobs left to kill.
3. The tank should pull only as much as they are geared for. Undergeared tanks pulling everything possible will result in my needing to heal 100% of the time and sometimes Benediction to avoid their death.
4. Some tanks run off before all of the mobs are killed, chaining pulls and leaving no chance to get out of combat. If this happens I can't DPS because Shroud of Saints by itself isn't enough to keep my MP high if I never leave combat.

So, how much I can DPS does often depend on the competency of those around me. Some groups are great and I can get quite a bit of DPS out. Others...not so much.

PS: I also have only been back in game for 1 month and just got Heavensward, so I don't know all the instances like the back of my hand. I am not 100% sure when large damage will come, so I choose to be prepared by keeping HPs high. I don't even know what a tankbuster is - do these happen outside of raids? If they do I haven't seen much of a problem because I typically keep HP on the higher end.

Personally, I try not to let the tank get below 50%. But it depends on a lot on how much damage the tank is taking and how fast their health is going down.
As soon as the tank gets enmity, I open with Divine Seal (if up) and Regen. If there are several groups of mobs I might pop in Eye for an Eye. This is usually enough that I don't need to heal for the rest of the fight.

If the tank's health is going down fast, I'll DPS until it gets to 30% or so. If up, Swiftcast and Cure II. Otherwise there is no time to DPS...
Then switch out of CS, heal him up real fast, and switch back to CS.

If his health is going down really slowly, there may not even be a need to heal at all. When it gets to 50 I'll pop in 1 Cure II and that's enough to bring it almost to full, without overhealing. Switch back to CS and DPS. (Because there is no CS cooldown on switching into CS, only out of it)

If the tank isn't using any cooldowns, I'll wait until their health gets really low to force them to actually play their role. I'm not going to be the only one working like crazy. We both need to play our roles effectively to clear the dungeon quickly and smoothly. That means proper use of skills.

But by and large, most tanks I'm with get to 50% slowly enough that I can do a lot of DPS, switch, heal, switch back, DPS more.
I don't want to the tank thinking "Come on healer! Hurry up! I'm about to die! Don't you see my health? Where are the heals?" At any point in the dungeon.

This mentality has gotten to the point where I wouldn't be sorry to see the fairies' Cure potency cut by half whenever a SCH is in Cleric Stance. If you want to DPS full time, switch over to SMN.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Going further from what Kaurie said(She's also correct about pet potency nerf from 50 to 60), who uses Eos in Expert? xD Selene is your go to for speed runs and she handles the damage like a champ on her own (cool downs from a decent tank be willing.) In the new Dungeons she's also able to silence Banish III from the light sprites and other random trash mobs as well as a free AOE esuna, saving you a fair amount of GCDs that would have been spent healing or an aetherflow towards Indom instead of Energy Drain.

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I do. The DPS increase from Fey Wind can be small but decent in 8 man content; in 4 man content it's negligible. I've found Silent Dusk to be very slow and unreliable unless you leave the fairy on Sic, in which case she'll blow it on the first cast bar she sees (whether it's affected by silence or not) because the AI isn't very bright about that kind of thing. Banish III is something your melee or tank should be stunning anyway if the Light Sprite even lives that long. If worst comes to worst, Fey Covenant reduces the amount of damage you take from it as does Virus. The AoE Leeches can be nice but it's extremely situational. There are very few times when I'd be removing a debuff from more than one person at a time anyway. Selene has her uses, but overall I find Eos lets me stay in Cleric Stance more reliably even when the tank is doing enormous pulls or the party is taking AoE damage. I don't need to blow a stack on Indom when I can preemptively have FI + WD up and let the regen effect heal them back up.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

This mentality has gotten to the point where I wouldn't be sorry to see the fairies' Cure potency cut by half whenever a SCH is in Cleric Stance. If you want to DPS full time, switch over to SMN.

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I don't get what the issue is. If I can do 850 DPS over the course of a dungeon and still keep the party healthy, what's the problem?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

...how much I can DPS does often depend on the competency of those around me. Some groups are great and I can get quite a bit of DPS out...

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^This.

Why are SCH talking about remaining in cleric so much? As if it's their priority? Is it different in 8-man content? I definitely dance a lot less on SCH, due to fairy. But I see her as a partner. She takes care of most of the healing. I assist her with adlo and succor, and cleric needs to be off. They also allow you to DPS more since it will take longer for your members to reach your threshold.

For me, it's getting to the point where I dislike if anyone other than the tank takes a hit w/o a shield up. I know I can't always have them up, but when it comes time for filler, my priority is succor/ruin/ruin2, not the other way around. I'll always DPS as much as I can, which is a lot lol. But me and my fairies priorities are mitigating and fixing dmg and I LOVE to see those little green icons.

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Originally Posted by odie

I am very confident in my healing ability. Sometimes I take a moment to gauge the damage the tank is tanking in duties i'm very familiar with to get an idea how far I can let them go. I'm not trying to make you crap your pants. I'm just maximizing the time I can stay in Cleric before coming out of it to top you off again. It's probably scary when you don't know your healer, but most of us have healed long enough we know how far we can let you get down to.

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This. /10 char

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I don't get what the issue is. If I can do 850 DPS over the course of a dungeon and still keep the party healthy, what's the problem?

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Hey if person wants to play healer and push as much dps as possible well good for them but they not happy with that a lot want to push their play style on others so if person doesn't play like them then they are considered bad players.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/201503_1428_becea_sm.png

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Brown trousers time isn't fun D: !

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Why are SCH talking about remaining in cleric so much.

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Because that is the priority. This is 2016, scholars aren't healers, they're just DPS that happen to have a healer pet. DPS takes priority over everything, including healing.

Most of the replies are telling me how great their heal and dps, I feel I have to let tank hp go as low as posisble now or I am not a good heal.^^;

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Think the lowest I ever let anyone get was either 4 or 7... great times

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Just let the WAR or DRK pop their final resort, you can make them 1HP every run. ^^;

Pretty much what most have said..

Being very VERY comfortable with my WHM, I know how much I'm healing for, vs the incoming damage to know how much more the tank can take.. so if I know there's some time available I'll try to throw some rocks at the enemy. I do understand the feelings from the tank's POV, especially if we're both strangers to each other.. so I probably just pop back to healing at around 50% of tank's HP since while I also want to make the run go faster, I also understand that throwing an additional rock isn't going to matter much and I'd rather be safer than sorry.

That's the general gist of it I guess, if some healers let the tank HP go down even lower, it just means they're more confident of their healing and want to truly maximise their damage. There are those flop ups by healers that do almost no healing (god knows why).. and that's pretty much a given that the healer went too far (or maybe it was the first pull and tank's HP dropped unexpectedly fast, but that's another topic)

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I don't get what the issue is. If I can do 850 DPS over the course of a dungeon and still keep the party healthy, what's the problem?

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The issue is that DPS has become, in the minds of too many, a requirement rather than an extra. SE not factoring in Healer damage potential (sorry Scholars, but you're healers. That's your lane) in endgame raids this time around is a testament to this and an attempt to atone for creating a mentality that upsets the concept of teamwork.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

The issue is that DPS has become, in the minds of too many, a requirement rather than an extra. SE not factoring in Healer damage potential (sorry Scholars, but you're healers. That's your lane) in endgame raids this time around is a testament to this and an attempt to atone for creating a mentality that upsets the concept of teamwork.

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I don't see how healer DPS uptime upsets the concept of teamwork at all. If anything, I feel that healers being able to DPS this way reinforces the concept of teamwork. Tank: uses a solid cooldown rotation. All four players: dodge and do mechanics correctly. Healer: gets free reign to DPS as well as keeping up their healing duties. All four players benefit from a faster clear. A tank not using cooldowns throws a definite wrench into healer DPS, as do DPS that stand in all the stupid. I'm well aware that I'm a healer, but the fact of the matter is that Scholar is very true to its Arcanist roots. Played correctly, you can be both a formidable damage dealer and a formidable healer and I'm still failing to see how that's any sort of problem at all.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Because that is the priority. This is 2016, scholars aren't healers, they're just DPS that happen to have a healer pet. DPS takes priority over everything, including healing.

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This is not consistent. I work with a lot of SCH. Many use Selene so they are the healer. The ones that use Eos I see DPSing a bit more. Though I have seen a few SCH that seem to want to be SMN more than SCH. Those few, I agree with the idea of if they want to DPS go SMN but I know that a number don't want to wait in the que

I am all for the healer DPSing if the group is solid. If I'm on my WAR and I blow cooldowns and the DPS are dodging I've watched healers not even cast a heal till boss tank buster attacks.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

The issue is that DPS has become, in the minds of too many, a requirement rather than an extra. SE not factoring in Healer damage potential (sorry Scholars, but you're healers. That's your lane) in endgame raids this time around is a testament to this and an attempt to atone for creating a mentality that upsets the concept of teamwork.

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As a SCH I can let my fairy do all the healing on dungeons, even in Antitower and Lost City Hard (where I just need to heal in the second pull of Lost City).
I arrived to 1k DPS in some dungeons, dealing more dps than our loldrg or lolbrd for example, I can't see nothing wrong with that (or maybe just one, if the healer deals all the dps of the party, the lazy DD won't learn how to do their job properly)

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Most of the replies are telling me how great their heal and dps, I feel I have to let tank hp go as low as posisble now or I am not a good heal.^^;

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Scholars have access to shields prepull (both stoneskin and adlo)
We have an endless supply of 200(+) potency heals.
Lustrate and indom are easily weaved after bio, aero, or if needed, ruin II.
Shields have a 50% less chance to over heal, at 50% less potency than a raw 600 potency heal.
Overheal is the devil and we have the tools to exorcise him >:] plus our dps and the preshields let us dps race damage incoming.

Our DPS helps to overcome mechanics (Dpsing Blaster in a6s at 950+ let's us push him easily to ignore a mine and mirage dps. Side note I hate the aoe phase for blaster, because I barely get out 2 bane ticks q.q fawk you holy)
I'll also always* use selene in group content to boost raid dps over my own.**

People want faster content and healers help.

*: unless eos does outweigh selene. Doesn't ever happen.
**: Selene boosts my dps as well.

There is nothing wrong with healer contribution to DPS. I am all for dungeon runs going faster, but I also want mechanic heavy boss fights that forces SCH to heal more. Thus far, that is typically how it has been. But if anyone thinks I am going to prioritize DoTs over heals they are sorely mistaken. Not one time have I been able to leave ALL the healing up to my fairy. Even when using Eos.

But yeah, if you want more DPS out of me... stay out of AoE, come to the instance with updated gear, learn the mechanics and teach it to those who don't know them, tanks try to alleviate the healer stress as much as possible, etc. If you're taking stings to the face, I have to and WILL step up. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Why are SCH talking about remaining in cleric so much? As if it's their priority? Is it different in 8-man content? I definitely dance a lot less on SCH, due to fairy. But I see her as a partner. She takes care of most of the healing. I assist her with adlo and succor, and cleric needs to be off. They also allow you to DPS more since it will take longer for your members to reach your threshold.

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Well, first, Eos/Selene can 100% solo heal expert dungeons atm. So she is a partner, but why not just let her do her thing?

Second, why are SCH talking about remaining in cleric so much? Because, dungeons in FFXIV have become a chore. They're designed to be easy, quick, boring and provide high rewards. Thus, the desire is to do them as quickly as possible - so you can get on to things you actually want to be spending your time doing. The longer one can stay in cleric stance, the faster the run.

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Originally Posted by HPDelron

The only hit point that matters is the last one.

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I did not expect a deep and profound response here.

@Karie, if Eos and Selene can't solo heal in these "easy" dungeons, can you explain to me how they are able to in expert content? Is it because I am forced to be main healer in four-man? Even if that's the case, why would my mitigation responsibility change? Like ever?

Please don't tell me shit hasn't hit the fan as sch during your time. These easy, boring, chore of a dungeon you speak of don't always go so smoothly. How fast is your run when someone drops while you're in cleric, and your 100% solo healing fairy didn't do her job?

I get the chore of grinding, but I'd like to know if sch wants to leave healing up to someone else while they dps, why play it at all. Almost sounds like a desire for quick queues, but I'm a cynical person.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

@Karie, if Eos and Selene can't solo heal in these "easy" dungeons, can you explain to me how they are able to in expert content? Is it because I am forced to be main healer in four-man? Even if that's the case, why would my mitigation responsibility change? Like ever?

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I am not sure if I am reading too much in to it, but your tone feels overly offensive. Moving on though...

Eos and Selene can more easily solo heal the current experts than the past 5 dungeons. Neverreap, Fractals, Arborteum, Aetherochemical Research Facility and Pharos hard all required a higher heals per second than the current two. Believe me, I have run these on my SCH many times while letting Eos/Selene solo heal. I often throw adlo/stone between pulls, but it isn't necessary - as when the pull is over the tank is often 70%+ on their HP. Now that said, there have been times that I do need to heal, and I've done it as such. It's just not usually/always the case.

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Please don't tell me shit hasn't hit the fan as sch during your time. These easy, boring, chore of a dungeon you speak of don't always go so smoothly. How fast is your run when someone drops while you're in cleric, and your 100% solo healing fairy didn't do her job?

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As for deaths, the only deaths I have witnessed in Expert so far has been 1. myself only when the DPS failed to get both of the wind aoe thingies in Lost City hard when I had the wind debuff - and 2. everyone died because the DPS did not kill the light thing on the 2nd boss in Lost City. Neither times did it have to do with Eos not keeping up with heals.

Other than that, shit hasn't hit the fan during the expert runs. It has during Seph EX and Savage - but I am actively healing and DPSing in both of those.

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I get the chore of grinding, but I'd like to know if sch wants to leave healing up to someone else while they dps, why play it at all. Almost sounds like a desire for quick queues, but I'm a cynical person.

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I am not leaving the healing up to another player during Expert. However, it is inefficient to heal when Eos could be doing it. Otherwise Eos will just sit there and do nothing - or I will sit there and do nothing - so I DPS. In most runs, I contribute ~30% of the DPS. Where the DPS breakdown is 900 top dps, 850 me, 800 bottom DPS give or take for a total of 2550 DPS. I could go on my SMN and it will be 1500 me, 800 other DPS and the healer doesn't for a total of 2300 DPS. So I go on SCH to make up for the other scrub players, and not for the quick queues. In fact, my healer queues have been pretty long lately (like 10+ minutes often). Further, I generally queue as a SCH as it the job I find the most fun. It's not always throwing out the same rotation of damage, and not throwing out the same cure 1 spell over and over - it feels the most dynamic, so it is the one i gear up and play as my main.

In regards to leaving heals to someone else, in my Savage and SephEX runs - I contribute (between Eos and I) 45% of the heals generally, while my AST co-healer does 53% or so (2% is with self heals on the tanks). I also contribute anywhere from 150-600 DPS while in the main fights. I feel that I do a fairly good balance of both healing and DPS when it matters. The issue is in expert, it doesn't matter, so I DPS 100%.

My golden rule is 50%. When the tank tips that low, I'll switch out of stance and heal them. There are a few exceptions, such as mobs which I know can hit for 60%+ but those are thankfully rare. The main reason I choose 50% is because if I'm caught on timer for Cleric stance (5 seconds recast) or otherwise between skills it gives me some time to heal before it gets critical. Trying to quick-swap when the tank is in dire straits is never a good idea, since even the best of us can be caught short.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Eos and Selene can more easily solo heal the current experts than the past 5 dungeons.

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As a scholar myself, I can tell you that this is absolute tripe. No scholar worth a damn uses only their pets to heal in anything except <50 content. For a start, Eos and Selene only start healing when the tank is around 80%, secondly Embrace's healing strength doesn't even match up to a basic cure/physick spell.

Even assuming you micro-manage every single skill in addition to being a perma DPS, unless your tank only pulls one group at a time (which realistically never happens unless they're new), there will be more damage than your pet can keep up with. It'd be like a weakened WHM that never uses Cure II and relies on Medica II regens instead.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

As a scholar myself, I can tell you that this is absolute tripe. No scholar worth a damn uses only their pets to heal in anything except <50 content. For a start, Eos and Selene only start healing when the tank is around 80%, secondly Embrace's healing strength doesn't even match up to a basic cure/physick spell.

Even assuming you micro-manage every single skill in addition to being a perma DPS, unless your tank only pulls one group at a time (which realistically never happens unless they're new), there will be more damage than your pet can keep up with. It'd be like a weakened WHM that never uses Cure II and relies on Medica II regens instead.

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Eh that isn't true. I've definitely done expert roulette with just the pet healing. This is very tank dependent (size of pulls + cooldown mitigation). Larger pulls usually mean that I need to throw in 1-2 heals per pull, but this is also mitigation dependent. Embrace's cure matches well when you throw up Rouse and even moreso when you add in Fey Illum.

I apologize for my tone Kaurie, sometimes things don't sound as abrasive in my head as they do to others. You say you enjoy sch and your are mitigating. I haven't reached this content yet, which is why I inquire and want to be enlightened. I will be evaluating this content though when I reach it, and will see how much of it my fairy can handle on her own. I'll be contributing heavily with such threads at that time I assure you.

However, if you're healing and mitigating as much as you say, I fail to see how you're staying in cleric for the majority of an instance. Our fairies are not equipped to handle heavy incoming AoE on their own. They need our help in these inevitable situations.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I apologize for my tone Kaurie, sometimes things don't sound as abrasive in my head as they do to others. You say you enjoy sch and your are mitigating. I haven't reached this content yet, which is why I inquire and want to be enlightened. I will be evaluating this content though when I reach it, and will see how much of it my fairy can handle on her own. I'll be contributing heavily with such threads at that time I assure you.

However, if you're healing and mitigating as much as you say, I fail to see how you're staying in cleric for the majority of an instance. Our fairies are not equipped to handle heavy incoming AoE on their own. They need our help in these inevitable situations.

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It is instance dependent. As I mentioned, the 2 newest expert dungeons require less healing than previous dungeons (on the order of about 30-50%). The previous dungeons were already tuned quite lightly on healing, where I could get through a dungeon in cleric stance 60%+ of the time.

On release, I'd say I haven't experience dungeons quite as light on healing as the two new ones since Brayflox normal (level 32 zone).

To give you an idea - the total DPS to the tank over the run is around ~400 (vs ~1000 in the past 5 dungeons). Embrace, the pets heal, does 1500 unboosted, per 3 seconds - or 500 HPS. So, the pet, unboosted, can keep up with the overall damage to the tank. That said, there are spikes and lulls in damage. Some spikes do require the use of Rouse on your pet, or for me to pop out of cleric and throw an adlo.

There is also a lot more to healing than just healing - a lot of it is mitigation. Good use of things such as Shadowflare which slows enemies and does DPS + Eye for an Eye which procs a 10% damage reduction on enemies, make a huge difference. White Mages and AST both have an AoE stun which completely stops all damage for ~7 seconds.

I always thought I was being conservative by healing once they got to 20%. xD

For the record the only tanks I kill due to dpsing are those in my FC. Because then my healing threshold is down around 5%... Gotta keep the excitement somehow.

Given how the combat in this games priorities of player actions is essentially DPS > tanking/healing for all roles, I really wonder how people would take it if the devs ever did a 180 for all forms of content. I'd imagine burnout would be far more common with tanks and healers if every fight became almost Savage mode level of responsibility.

This means people have to remember in a 4man, SCH is solo healing a toned down Savage mode... DPS probably wouldn't be as much of a routine thing. Tanks having to perfect their mitigation usage even against single or small group trash mobs, since maybe each mob will be doing 1/4-1/2 tanks HP per slow auto. DPS would have to manage CC and maybe mechanics that have the mob apply a debuff focus (while still attacking tank) that will only release when the mob takes X amount of damage from its focus. Failure to break results in either massive damage (meaning a badly timed one = dead tank) or outright wipes the group. Plus, they'd probably have to rework the lack of necessity for MP management we have in this game.

Haaa... well that's more of a farfetched thought than anything. There is zero chance the devs would even remotely release something that difficult to a 4-man or non-savage 8 lol. Given how much failure among the players Cata instances first brought about by returning to those old punishing roots, I'd very much imagine players here reacting even worse. The outcry and quick change of heart regarding the role of the healer meta (DPS > healing) would be astronomical for a while lol.

I imagine for most people who claim that it's because healing isn't as important that they DPS, would quickly remove themselves from the game/role if such a change came to be. Having said that, the folks complaining about healers focusing on DPSing most/all the time just haven't grasped the idea that the devs (un)intentionally designed the healer role to be DPS with healing abilities. This is how FFXIV works, so some love it, some hate it. Unless you have a bad tank (which is not uncommon), the DPS role is actually a thing for not just healers, but tanks too.

Likewise though, a lot of healers and tanks seem to not have grasped that perspective too, despite them doing it. A well geared SCH in a fight with AoE keeping up with a not-as-geared DPS that sucks at AoE where mobs die fast? Yeah, I'd imagine the SCH would be doing quite well there. Likewise with tanks. Healers and tanks complain about any form of hindrance to their DPS because they see it as a mandatory thing that they deal almost as much as the DPS in equal ilvl gear, yet they seem to think it unusual that they keep up in some situations. It's just really funny to me when that happens.