So, what's with the lack of Machinist in DF?

Clunky and unfun. The class is starting to remind me of Warcraft's enhance shammy.

I'm now main machinist than ex-monk. But, if I'm mood play monk.
But, true I noticed players don't much play machinists. I saw more Dark Knights and Astrologians

on my mech i do the combo alot watch DOT / Or buff on me that increase DAM use the buff of reload. switch turret from aoe to single depending on mobs there is ...each time i see many mob i DOT them all then hotshot/reload/buff/then AOE them all as quick as i can while i watch my buff and the DOT

Edit : the thing is that people when DF ... and see an MCH lvl60 ... the only think his ilvl is same as them. but that aint true not every one have end game gear did all alexander or farm alot just after update to get new gear. Some just start to farm and need to do lvl60 dungeon to get the new tonestomes for gear. And you don't learn your class by watching youtube but by playing it. but if people reject some player in team hard for them to learn how to play and get better at it. I know some don't care and prefer to let other do the job but don't put everyone in the same spot. i bought a naga mouse(12 button) to be able to place the right skill and have more chance to click and on each skill while dodging attack.

Right now seing that post and those comment : mech is bad ban it from every party .... humm we are allowed to play what we like no?? and i know some will say make your PF if you want to make party and dont DF ...but you can do that do if you dont like Mech. ..DF is random party so you end up with what the DF decide not you it made for everyone of everytype . i didn't see "Mech is ban from it cos of low dps" in DF youll do a better quick dungeon doing a PF with good people choose by you with high dps and when finish dungeon already have your party and restart it quick with no queue that logic no?

MCH is incredibly fun for me personally. To each their own I guess, I'll be the first to admit that half the abilities look bland but if you need shock and awe to keep you entertained, might not be the class for you!

All the mch are in the feast, making people explode and generally being a pain in the butt.

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Originally Posted by Docent

Well, the game actually matches ranged DPS with melee DPS, so you'll see Dragoons and Ninjas the most when on your machinist. Monks aren't as popular by a big margin.
So next, you're going to see Bards, Black Mages and Summoners, because those classes are very popular, despite being the same "type" (ranged DPS -- For normal Duty Finder, the game doesn't distinguish Caster and Physical ranged DPS) as you.
Finally, since the game rarely pairs two people of the same class, you'll see Machinist the least.

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This is false #Got4Bardsfromdifferentservers

Lots of MCH hate here.

I'm really enjoying playing MCH, doing pretty well with it.

However, I've been paired with awful melee DPS a lot since playing it.

Whine and complain about bad players, not about "bad" jobs. Jobs that the end game raiding scene, the most difficult content in the game, can't live without and that don't hold groups back in it.

Also, GB isn't nearly as bad as people are saying.

Going by luckybancho's census: on Aether there are a total of 8571 players with level 60 MCH and 99252 players who have Heavensward.
Let's assume everyone who has Heavensward is at level cap and doing their thing. If everyone who had MCH at level 60 actively plays it that'd only be around 9% of the population.

But we all know that all those people aren't actively playing MCH, let alone sitting through DPS queue as one so the percentage only falls from there.
Personally, I enjoy MCH the most out of all the jobs in the game so I was a little shocked going through these numbers!

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

This is false #Got4Bardsfromdifferentservers

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It does prioritize finding one ranged and one melee, especially in dungeons but it won't delay your queue by a large amount to do that. If the queue is too long and it can't find your 'opposite', it'll search for whoever.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

This is false #Got4Bardsfromdifferentservers

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As far as I am aware, it doesn't do that for VoidArk and the likes. Not too sure for Trials or Alexanders, but seeing as 3 BRD + 1 MCH is a compo I stumble upon often enough, I'm willing to bet it doesn't.

So to clarify my statement; in 4-man party, the DF will try to make a tank - healer - melee - ranged group (preferably). Yes, I have seen double monk teams in DF, and I have seen MCH + BRD often, but sometimes it's because friend queue together, other times it's because there's just too many ranged playing at the same time.

Hence "you'll see MCH the least" not "You'll never get a MCH in your party if you are playing one."

Just had a double MCH Aery group.

The other one's DPS was...not so great judging by our aggro differences.

We were falling behind on the group DPS check on the last boss as well, had to pop LB on the 3 drakes ASAP to the other MCH's dismay. He was wanting to use it on the boss I think. Had to let him know AoE LBs are better used as AoEs, especially during DPS checks.

No deaths though thankfully.

I love playing MCH, I think the main problem is the skill ceiling is very high to pull out good numbers, if you mess up your burst (or in the case of many MCH's in DF, simply don't use it) your damage will be pretty crummy, Hypercharge is kick-ass, but it won't make a run go much faster all things considered.

MCH's can put out some great damage and boost everyone else's numbers too, but most MCH's I see mostly try and wing it, which doesn't work with MCH unfortunately. MCH as a job is fine, just requires a lot more foresight because a lot of its damage comes from its burst rather than its sustain, so keeping some cooldowns for Wildfire makes all the difference.

Pretty sure the game tries to put melee and ranged together and I say that because as a monk I pretty much never see Ninjas or Drgs in 4 mans but I see Brd, Smn, BLm and Mch all the time. MCH is the rarest for high level content but I am almost always paired with a ranged dps. If I queue as a tank or healer I see all the dps jobs more often.

Keep in mind that MCH is new job and compared to Brd is harder to play, has to deal with RNG and after all that has a hard time keeping up with Bard.

MCH is like playing melee in dungeons. Super frustrating on trash but fun on bosses. MCH aoe is really TP hungry like melee's so you're wanting to TP turret, but the healers are aoe bombing and crying for MP turret so rock and a hard place. Easier just to play BRD if I'm going to go support and have easymode aoe and ok boss fun while not being frustrated.

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Originally Posted by Jeykama

MCH is like playing melee in dungeons. Super frustrating on trash but fun on bosses. MCH aoe is really TP hungry like melee's so you're wanting to TP turret, but the healers are aoe bombing and crying for MP turret so rock and a hard place. Easier just to play BRD if I'm going to go support and have easymode aoe and ok boss fun while not being frustrated.

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My impressions are the total opposite. I feel like MCH aoe dps is sky high and that my single-target damage (post the short, sweet first 20-30 seconds burst) is pitiful.

I would kill for a "boss-fight" that is actually an aoe fight when on MCH.

I swear, lvl 50-60, I got one in every single dungeon.

Would Machinist be better if they remove the % chance aspect from the combo? Of course they would have to lower the potency on the combo.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Would Machinist be better if they remove the % chance aspect from the combo? Of course they would have to lower the potency on the combo.

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It'd be an even flatter job mechanics wise than it already is.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Would Machinist be better if they remove the % chance aspect from the combo? Of course they would have to lower the potency on the combo.

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Would be pro's and con's to it. SE did an update recently that helped us sustain damage a bit better by increasing Hypercharge's percentage. Its easy enough to sustain a high DPS number if fights are not too mechanic heavy. Its all about properly using your oGCD's and making the most out of each Wildfire you use, saving abilities for it or timing it so things line up as they should. It all depends on the raid situation.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It'd be an even flatter job mechanics wise than it already is.

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I mean it wouldn't be any different from melee's dps combo system (what I've done with Lancer from lvl 1-34) or even paladin's usually 3 hit enmity combo. At the very least the combo would be guaranteed, and you would be able to weave it with oGCD's alot easier.

I like my MCH, but it's not my main and not second nature. It's a lot more work to do well with, so for in-consequential content it's not as relaxing. That's my reason despite liking the class.

I got mine to 60. I don't like how precise and tight you need to be during the 15 second wildfire windows. No mistakes, lots of pressure, need to get everything in the exact right order and it's a super long rotation all for like 10,000 damage or whatever. Woo.

Meh, I like bard.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I got mine to 60. I don't like how precise and tight you need to be during the 15 second wildfire windows. No mistakes, lots of pressure, need to get everything in the exact right order and it's a super long rotation all for like 10,000 damage or whatever. Woo.

Meh, I like bard.

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After you've done it enough times, it's really not that big of a deal anymore. Just like every other DPS job opener. Only real issue I have is that I still occasionally fat-finger the wrong buff, and it knocks a chunk out of my wildfire damage. Or dungeon bosses that don't sit around long enough to even finish the opener, but other jobs have the same problem there.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I got mine to 60. I don't like how precise and tight you need to be during the 15 second wildfire windows. No mistakes, lots of pressure, need to get everything in the exact right order and it's a super long rotation all for like 10,000 damage or whatever. Woo.

Meh, I like bard.

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All that set up and all for a rather underwhelming "boom" Seriously though, it's not very satisfying and I REALLY have to look close just to see if/when my Wilfire went off. It's even less noticeable in 24 man raids.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

I mean it wouldn't be any different from melee's dps combo system (what I've done with Lancer from lvl 1-34) or even paladin's usually 3 hit enmity combo. At the very least the combo would be guaranteed, and you would be able to weave it with oGCD's alot easier.

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That's sort of the problem; MCH loses what little job identity it has in it's gameplay. If you remove the proc %, you're also invalidating their ammo mechanic and all it becomes is a 20 potency boost to a weaponskill. They could buff it to a 100% proc rate (so they can still use their abilties out of sequence and not drop the "combo") and make ammo have other uses aside from the flat 20 potency, like a secondary effect to weaponskills/abilties.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

-Dragoons
-Bards
-Ninjas
-Scholars (yes, it's a dps job. The Fairy is the real healer. :P)
-Black Mages
-Monks
-Summoners
-Machinists

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You forgetting WHM. While scholar DoTs are ticking, WHM DPS would be ahead of them.

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Originally Posted by Docent

My impressions are the total opposite. I feel like MCH aoe dps is sky high and that my single-target damage (post the short, sweet first 20-30 seconds burst) is pitiful.

I would kill for a "boss-fight" that is actually an aoe fight when on MCH.

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Nah, MCH aoe is respectable with turret, but you need TP Promotion after 30s to sustain if there's a consecutive aoe pull. Well, unless you're with a bunch of people who are also aoe insane in the membrane, which isn't often in DF dungeons (I always seem to get physical dps so terrified of bottoming out of TP they single-target aoe pulls, and heal-only healers...) Bard on the other hand, dot 3 targets and spam Rain of Death forever, never have to Paeon for myself anyway so I can Requiem if someone else is actually casting. Bard's just less tedious balancing the support. But that's why I prefer not to MCH in dungeons - raids tho, different story.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Would Machinist be better if they remove the % chance aspect from the combo? Of course they would have to lower the potency on the combo.

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I think it'd be a somewhat neat idea to replace the % chance with positionals or something.

I'd rather do positionals as a ranged than deal with RNG, don't know about others.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

Meh, I like bard.

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Yea, after getting Gauss barrel the job has lost next to all steam. I'm probably just going to go back to my lvl 60 jobs and finish tricking out my bard in ilvl200 gear. A chance combo system and a cast bar just doesn't fit well together.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I think it'd be a somewhat neat idea to replace the % chance with positionals or something.

I'd rather do positionals as a ranged than deal with RNG, don't know about others.

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Please, no. There are three melee jobs everyone can play if they really need a positional fix. I can't play those jobs for extended periods of time because I have wrist problems. Ninja used to be my favorite job ever until they added armor crush and the positional on aeolian edge. I can only play monk for an hour or two before I have to stop for the day.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if they add another ranged job that has them, but it'd have to be something like scoundrel on SWTOR where a majority of its attacks are close range. Positionals from a distance would be annoying at best, especially if the target ever turns around for an attack or has to be moved.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

Please, no.

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The only job that requires actually switching positions constantly is monk, Ninja and Dragoon camp one position far more than the other, and switching positions only requires moving a couple of steps. Nothing any worse than having to move out of an AoE every one in a while. Nothing can be done however if RNG decides to not be in your favor, at least with positionals you have more control over the situation.

But I'm fine with no changes being made too since MCH RNG can be pretty heavily mitigated. It was just an idea.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I think it'd be a somewhat neat idea to replace the % chance with positionals or something.

I'd rather do positionals as a ranged than deal with RNG, don't know about others.

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Positionals for a ranged class is a recipe for unpleasant gameplay. edit:You'd have to be pretty damn close to your target to avoid clipping into your GCD -- especially since you have cast times.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Positionals for a ranged class is a recipe for unpleasant gameplay. You'd have to be pretty damn close to your target to avoid clipping into your GCD -- especially since you have cast times.

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I can guarantee you that I'd still get more procs than I do with RNG though, assuming missed positionals are what would prevent procs :P not to mention you wouldn't necessarily have to be close.

The giant circle under enemies demonstrates quite clearly what position of the enemy you're on.

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Originally Posted by Adire

The only job that requires actually switching positions constantly is monk, Ninja and Dragoon camp one position far more than the other, and switching positions only requires moving a couple of steps.

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Yeah, I'm aware that monk is much more reliant on positionals, but dragoon and ninja have to do it enough for me to shy away from ever maining them despite how much I enjoy them. I'm aware that I am part of less than 1% of 1% of players that has to choose what I play for medical reasons, but I already went from ninja to machinist and don't want to lose that too.

Even without that being the case, I don't think positionals add anything to the gameplay and are forced complexity at best. I'm sure there are plenty of people who avoid jobs with positionals because they just don't enjoy them. I remember threads about ninja positionals (back when SE announced they'd be getting more with 3.0), and a lot of people were annoyed because they'd chosen the job specifically because it only had the SA/TA positionals.

Sorry if I'm coming off hostile at all--It took me a long time to finally settle on machinist as a main, and I really don't want to switch again. :P

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

Sorry if I'm coming off hostile at all--It took me a long time to finally settle on machinist as a main, and I really don't want to switch again. :P

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It's all good :). I was actually one of the people complaining about NIN getting more positionals.

The only reason I settled with it is because of how negligible (for me at least, with wrist problems it's probably a different story) the movement requirement was that was actually added, considering Yoshida had complained about NINs not having to move enough which strongly insinuated the job was going to become positional heavy.

Like I said, it was just an idea. I really doubt it would be worth the time to change how MCH functions this late without great reason, especially since the RNG can be substantially mitigated with the ammo system.