MCH too bursty?...

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Originally Posted by KingKoush

MCH is the only class that can take you down without you even having a chance to retaliate. Within a second you can go from 70% hp to 0% without even going through hoops to stop it (With no medals). I would rather get hit by Melee LB then tango with a MCH because at least with Melee LB I can survive possibly and Benedict.

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It's called Line of Sight, try it sometime, or Purify, or stunning, or making him your primary focus target. There are just as many ways to shut down a MCH as there are any other DPS class, and EVERY class can do 70-0% as long as heals aren't hitting. Also as a WHM, you have more then enough utility to stop a MCH, pay attention.

Who the fk purifies bind lol? That's the whole reason MCH can pull that burst off no one purifies bind wtf. You can try to LoS but it gets harder to LoS when SE insists on making things easier for dps by removing more walls.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Who the fk purifies bind lol? That's the whole reason MCH can pull that burst off no one purifies bind wtf. You can try to LoS but it gets harder to LoS when SE insists on making things easier for dps by removing more walls.

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If it's going to be the difference between living and dying, that determines if it was a good use of purify or not. It doesn't happen frequently, but I've had maybe 2 incidents where a MCH burst gets dropped because bind was purified, and no kills were made. There's also fetter ward that makes it unfeasible for any team with a MCH to target a melee (that isn't a ninja anyway)

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

If it's going to be the difference between living and dying, that determines if it was a good use of purify or not. It doesn't happen frequently, but I've had maybe 2 incidents where a MCH burst gets dropped because bind was purified, and no kills were made. There's also fetter ward that makes it unfeasible for any team with a MCH to target a melee (that isn't a ninja anyway)

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Yeah but how exactly are you gonna know bte is coming or if its on cooldown aside from the opener of the match? You could panic purify a mch's bind scared shitless of an incoming bte and it turns out it was on cooldown anyway and he did it just to keep you away, meaning you were in no immediate danger of dying and therefore just wasted a purify. Fetter ward also only lasts 12 seconds, is easily indentifiable in the status bar, and has a minimum of 90 sec recast. It shouldn't be hard for mch to work around it anyway so im not sure why you wouldnt target a drg or mnk along with the nins.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Yeah but how exactly are you gonna know bte is coming or if its on cooldown aside from the opener of the match? You could panic purify a mch's bind scared shitless of an incoming bte and it turns out it was on cooldown anyway and he did it just to keep you away, meaning you were in no immediate danger of dying and therefore just wasted a purify.

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Getting chased down for one. MCH does either a bind or a heavy, not both. Maybe it's because I'm a MCH main myself, but it's very obvious to see a MCH is getting ready to gun you down with BtE by their cooldown usage. Without any cooldowns, it's still relatively weak and by no means is going to kill anyone that's above 60% hp, even with a crit (and at that point, you're either dangerously close to dying that purify is a waste no matter what, or you're not in any danger of dying to begin with)

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Fetter ward also only lasts 12 seconds, is easily indentifiable in the status bar, and has a minimum of 90 sec recast. It shouldn't be hard for mch to work around it anyway so im not sure why you wouldnt target a drg or mnk along with the nins.

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The first few seconds of engagement is typically what sets the pacing of the game. If you can get a kill within the first few seconds of contact (especially on their enemy dps, because that means they do not the potential burst to kill off someone on your party). Waiting off the first contact or trying to survive through their burst typically is not an option you want to take either, depending on your composition (such as AST with WAR/DRK where your party lacks any strong shields). A synchronized burst is extremely important to get the kill on first contact (which is why I'm against going after a MNK or espesically a DRG first). Anything else outside of that though is fair game and is entirely on you to find an opportunity to burst

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Maybe it's because I'm a MCH main myself, but it's very obvious to see a MCH is getting ready to gun you down with BtE by their cooldown usage. Without any cooldowns, it's still relatively weak and by no means is going to kill anyone that's above 60% hp, even with a crit (and at that point, you're either dangerously close to dying that purify is a waste no matter what, or you're not in any danger of dying to begin with)

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My machinist is level 30 so I'll admit its not as obvious to me when BtE is coming because of this as I'm not aware of the steps taken before its execution aside from the bind/heavy/stun part.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

The first few seconds of engagement is typically what sets the pacing of the game.

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This part I guess I misunderstood? The quote sounded like you were saying you would rather not target a DRG/MNK with your burst at any point because of Fetter Ward but if you meant in the opening sequence of the match then I would understand why. Pretty much every Dragoon/Monk is gonna pop that fetter ward as the last buff before diving in for that initial match opening burst.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

My machinist is level 30 so I'll admit its not as obvious to me when BtE is coming because of this as I'm not aware of the steps taken before its execution aside from the bind/heavy/stun part.

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It's the case with any burst, you need cooldowns to be paired with it if you want anything to drop dead, even if it's a high potency hit like BtE. In the case of ranged dps, hawkeye and B4B always lines up with their 90 second cooldowns (though it's damn near suicide to even use B4B). BtE by itself isn't lethal (and if you're low enough for it to be lethal, then it's probably not even needed in the first place, with only hawkeye I hit about 2.4k on average. You need the other things to go with it such as hot shot, cleaner shot, and reassemble. It's not hard to set up, but it's something you'd definitely see coming if you're paying attention to the other team.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

This part I guess I misunderstood? The quote sounded like you were saying you would rather not target a DRG/MNK with your burst at any point because of Fetter Ward but if you meant in the opening sequence of the match then I would understand why. Pretty much every Dragoon/Monk is gonna pop that fetter ward as the last buff before diving in for that initial match opening burst.

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Yeah, my context is mostly toward the initial burst (which generally sets the pacing of the game, much more so now since buffs spawn in the center circle rather than base), I could've clarified that eariler. Depending on what party composition you and the opposing side has, you'd want to play to your group's strengths/don't play into their weakness, which either means killing their DPS because you simply don't have the means to heal/mitigate through their burst, or tank through their burst and overwhelm their healer with outgoing damage.

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Originally Posted by KingKoush

MCH is the only class that can take you down without you even having a chance to retaliate. Within a second you can go from 70% hp to 0% without even going through hoops to stop it (With no medals). I would rather get hit by Melee LB then tango with a MCH because at least with Melee LB I can survive possibly and Benedict.

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Nope. Sorry. BRD does this as well. I don't even need the target at 70% health, I can take them from 100% to 0% before they even know what's happening. Granted they obviously can't have the def buff or be the tank.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Nope. Sorry. BRD does this as well. I don't even need the target at 70% health, I can take them from 100% to 0% before they even know what's happening. Granted they obviously can't have the def buff or be the tank.

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I played about 150-200 of solo matches and actually I have never had a bard make me panic as you say, I'm not saying that you are missing something but now I wonder "is that burst fast as the MCH one and with an high movebility too?"
Because even BLM can do suddently 70% hp of damage but it require a good build up (need Fire III procced, Astral Fire III and Enochian + Raging if possible) and during the Fire IV you will face all the typical caster problem (los, possible interrupts).

They must not be playing correctly. It's unfortunate because those brds give the good ones a bad name.

Fully buffed barrage + emp arrow, blood letter, far shot, sidewinder then misery's end will absolutely ko any dps in pvp. All in about 4 seconds.

No one really takes brds seriously in pvp and that's exactly how I prefer it. Unsuspecting carnage ;)

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Originally Posted by Geologo

I played about 150-200 of solo matches and actually I have never had a bard make me panic .

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Much lower on the Matches played, but yeah whenever I see a Brd not ranked Silver+, I generally don't see them as a threat, and an easy 1-2-KO target when I'm not harassing the healer, peeling off my healer. Especially since I see the majority of bards run AWAY from their healer when focused, I'll try to force a purify with Brutal swing and then holmgang when they're out of range, forcing their healer to A) run out of their parties range to save the Bard or B) a quick kill with Maim+Se boosted Double Fell cleaves.