Brand new players should not be allowed into 4v4 Feast.

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Originally Posted by Petite

What better way to discourage players from ranking up than to turn them into babysitters? Basically, the higher the rank, the more stressful and frustrating the matches. Over time, people will desert solo queues for either Light Party 4v4s or 8v8s rather than bothering to break their necks carrying people all the time*.

Randomizing the match-ups completely would be fair to everyone. Sure you'd get good or bad teams now and then, but at least you wouldn't get forced every match with newbies when high ranked.

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So true, had great time previous week and manage to rank up silver rank without too much issue and had like 70% wins. Now what? My team are most of the time just horrible and I droped to a 40ish win rate (9% win today, rage quit it now, that's enough). It's simple, I didn't have any fun in any game I played this week because even if we managed to win, the game was just bad and the foe was worse.

This mode is gonna die so fast with all the complaining already about new people when then the matches don't even count anyway atm. The queues have already started reaching 10 minutes and that's with new people still actually queuing lol. The PVP community is pathetically small compared to PVE and people wanna segregate them even further. I hate being paired up with useless players as much as the next guy but damn man its preaseason. Wait until you see what SE does with the matchmaking once the actual season starts and let the scrubs learn now in the preaseason before the games actually matter. That 8 v 8 mode is trash I've played it a couple times and it's way too easy to carry people in there.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

First off, we've all had embarrassing games and wouldn't appreciate seeing it on a forum page xD.

Secondly, this is the root of the problem, posting a screenshot of damage dealt, stating it proof is completely circumstantial and subjective. Example, that one blk also achieved 1 assist, and 2 deaths, so the player use CC constantly applying pressure enough to peel players to focus, effectively use defensive CDs to avoid more than 2 deaths( I'd love to have seen damage taken to investigate further) and at some point was able to utilize their focus to help down the focus target.

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....no. HELL no. Mom could be on fire in one room and Chris Hanson shoving a home-made lolipop down your 3 year old sister's throat in the other and you STILL wouldn't have a justifiable excuse for doing 6k ina match with those numbers. Some things can be allowed as nooberty but thy line musteth be drawn somewhere.

New players should 100% be allowed into Solo queue in feast, the real issue is the BEYOND terrible matchmaking system. New players should be put into games solely with players of similar or slightly higher skill, not used as a counterweight to a much higher rated player for the sake of team balancing, current system just makes games into one sided stomps the vast majority of the time. I'd imagine the system would work much better if the population of players in the upper tiers were much higher, currently it seems like a vast majority (probably 95%) are sitting in bronze/unrated while the upper tiers make up the remainder (I have only seen 2 or 3 other people in gold for solo queue, at least on the Chaos DC anyway).
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(from previous)

Its exceedingly difficult to not lose your temper with a new player that ruins a match for you (especially in a promotion series) even though it is absolutely no fault of their own that they are matched with a high rated player in the first place. I've noticed that when player population is low (late at night, for example) team balancing becomes much worse which makes earning rating at those times a nightmare. Hopefully when the season really starts the population of active players will increase and stay at a level where the current system of matchmaking doesn't absolutely suck, but at the current population it just causes immense salt, (I admittedly get super salty, many on Chaos can confirm)

TL;DR New players should definitely play solo queue (Best way to learn the tactics of the mode). Matchmaking system is terrible right now but it may improve in time as players move higher in tier (as long as population for PVP in general doesn't plummet to the ground).

I really, really hope this is a case of the 'preseason' matchmaking system... because I have had it happen many, many times where I'll be paired up with someone entering the mode for the first time (I'll see the achievement). More often than not, it will be a healer... and so they usually need to have everything explained, and they'll get facerolled if the other team realizes they are super easy to kill. Or else, their teammates will get facerolled. It's also likely they won't really know how to utilize their PvP-specific abilities. This isn't isolated to new healers, but that's the situation that frustrates me.

I'm only Bronze right now, but it is super frustrating that being paired up with a completely new player basically means we're prooooobably going to lose, and since you lose as much ranking as you gain when you win... it can really set you back of no fault of your own. I'm hoping the matchmaking will be waaaaaay better once the actual season starts. However, it is good that they're adding a preseason so people can sort of get into the feel of it without having to get PvP gear.

I'll be clear here -- I don't want to 'segregate' people from playing. I just think the matchmaking should keep people in the same bracket together, or perhaps limit it to one bracket above/below, once the real season starts. I also hope they add a mentor system for PvP (as suggested in another thread). I'd love to help new players learn. It's just really hard to explain everything to a new player as soon as they enter a match and while the match is going on.

Well I don't even bother queue 4v4 anymore because I don't want to be paired with people who lose their mind over a lose. Not their fault though since they lose rank. Once again SE has screwed up pvp but this time with horrible match making system.

IT shouldn't discourage new players from jumping into the game mode.

But at the same time, when you're looking at personal rankings, it should not be contingent on who you get paired up with on your team, at least if you want it to actually mean something (which until some confirmed changes, it will because only solo queues count toward season rewards).

I'm not adverse to taking fresh blood in my team, I usually call most of the shots anyway. I'm adverse to the fact that new blood is liability to something that's supposed to be competitive ranking.

Brand new players should not be allowed to do anything. They should just sit there and watch.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Who made you the Sheriff of Wolve's Den?

Please, please for the sake of the PVP community, we really need to lighten up. Last time I checked, this was a game( and Pre-Season) and honestly the facetious superiority that plagues the Qs is astounding.

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Thats like saying a demo isnt the finished product...... come on. You arnt fooling anyone. Preseason or not it will still be hindered by newer players so we can be as harsh to them as we like since it wont change either way. This way we can at least scare off the ones who don't actually want to learn or take the time to rather then join for free tomes. This is all based on the current matchmaking system. If by the time the actually official seasons starts and I ONLY get paired with people my ranking then I will be completely fine (maybe) with the way the matches go.

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Originally Posted by Petite

At least 20 matches in 8v8 should be mandatory to unlock 4v4 premade and solo both.

See the picture below. I did not edit those numbers up.

http://i.imgur.com/4berSnt.png

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See, now thats a bad blm. While Iagain tries to say hes a good one (which obviously isnt the case due to severe, and I mean sevear lack of dps) by saying "theoretically" that the blm used alot of cc is just abserd. 6k damage isnt even 2 attacks. Did he only use scathe the whole time (but 5 mins of scathe should still be way way more)

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Originally Posted by Nidelia

So true, had great time previous week and manage to rank up silver rank without too much issue and had like 70% wins. Now what? My team are most of the time just horrible and I droped to a 40ish win rate (9% win today, rage quit it now, that's enough). It's simple, I didn't have any fun in any game I played this week because even if we managed to win, the game was just bad and the foe was worse.

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Yeah. The system is fundementally broken with match making. I've had the same experience. First day I won 20 games in a row, was freaking awesome and this was before us blm could even cast anything. Now im getting the rejects, the outcasts, the casuals who only try it out of curiosity and free tomes that ruin every single match im in. If everyone on the team isnt on par then it ruins it for everyone. Im stuck at bronze and its slipping further and further each time I try and its eventually gonna get lost under the loses due to inexperienced players flooding a game mode they have no right to be in.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

This mode is gonna die so fast with all the complaining already about new people when then the matches don't even count anyway atm. The queues have already started reaching 10 minutes and that's with new people still actually queuing lol. The PVP community is pathetically small compared to PVE and people wanna segregate them even further. I hate being paired up with useless players as much as the next guy but damn man its preaseason. That 8 v 8 mode is trash I've played it a couple times and it's way too easy to carry people in there.

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You know we pvpers wouldnt be salty if the matchmaking paired us correctly right? Preseason or not it still hurts the ones actually trying to pvp rather then those coming to check it out twice. That excuse of "its only preseason" is not working on anyone.

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Originally Posted by Kyani

I mean, she only did 8k less than the enemy Dragoon, through 2 deaths. And she was the highest damage on her team - higher than a smn. That's a reasonable performance in context, even if it's not that great.

You want awful numbers? Here's some awful numbers:

http://i.imgur.com/F5APNqJ.png

I died at 3:30, team chased and died before I respawned. The excuse I got for why they did such terrible damage?

"The enemy healer was a Scholar."

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Just pointing out that a random blm screenshot with this kind of dmg says not much about skill and if they break sleep its really bad even if he did dmg. I have matches with like 6-8k dmg and still get kills and win.

Damage dealt isn't the full story; I've had 3-4 minute wins where I've dealt as little as 70k with a drg and war. 8k over five minutes though is extremely low and honestly that could have been damage dealt on the starting boxes. Even you do cc, you aren't doing it for that whole five minutes, esp with DR

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Just pointing out that a random blm screenshot with this kind of dmg says not much about skill and if they break sleep its really bad even if he did dmg. I have matches with like 6-8k dmg and still get kills and win.

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First off, I included what the BLM said at the end of the match. He probably heard somewhere that a BLM's job was to CC and only CC and I'm willing to bet money he took it to heart because of his lack of experience in PVP. The realization that BLMs are more than just CCers is not a hard one to get after a couple of matches.

Also, if you wanted to "point out" something to me, maybe calling me out on a supposed bad performance wasn't the best way to convey it.

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Originally Posted by Kyani

I'd rather wait 15 minutes to guarantee similar healer quality, than 5 to have a quarter of my games be a complete mismatch in the pivotal role.

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This, so much this. It's why I play healer myself (I have a 65% win rate as heals :') )

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Originally Posted by Maddonious

See, now thats a bad blm. While Iagain tries to say hes a good one (which obviously isnt the case due to severe, and I mean sevear lack of dps) by saying "theoretically" that the blm used alot of cc is just abserd. 6k damage isnt even 2 attacks. Did he only use scathe the whole time (but 5 mins of scathe should still be way way more)

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Reread, I never said the player did anything, I said according to the data given, my hypothetical interpretation is just as valid as saying "they're bad mmK". We actually had a few good games in 8v8 last night, and your CC skills were notch, but I know one of those games you didn't break 50k damage so does that make you bad? I assumed your critical thinking skills were better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Back on point, the Individual player rating based on Win/loss is so archaic, and it will not prevail in such a small pvp community, let alone attract new players to the Den. I'm not a mathematician, or write algorithms for a living, but here goes....

The Revised PVP Player Rating!!!!!

So say we break actions up into 3 categories; A column would be raw damage/ healing actions(Heavy Swing, Split Shot, Fire IV, Royal Authority etc.) B would be Defensive(Thrill of War, Hallowed Ground, Manawall) and C would be enfeeble, crowd control(Sleep, Full Swing, Head Graze) with each of these columns having a different variable attached to them. Now each time a player inputs those actions, it's recorded, so at the end of the match, that player, for ex. used 300 A, 140 B, and 90 C. Then take that data over a 100-1000 matches from multiple players in each role(Tank, melee, ranged, healer) still taking a win/loss factor as a smaller variable. Theoretically, depending on the class, theses numbers would increase over the course of the matches, and level off the closer you came to the 100-1000 match mark(let's call it the Iggy Curve ;D) and then this is where the win/loss ratio would become more of a defining factor, not at the beginning of how your rating is evaluated. Please point out any holes in this, or constructive critiques on how to improve it, but something like this would allow for a true individual player rating, and still allow new and vetted players alike to be queued together(saving queue times, showing new players how to pvp through example), and your rating wouldn't be hindered by something as silly as just whether it was a win or a loss.

I just wonder, what SE are expecting with this ranking system? I even don't know how some people managed to be higher than silver in solo queue, because for my case, I m just stuck with a 50% win ratio in good days and 100% lose ration in bad days (not even kiding) since I m in silver (and it was at 70% or more win before.)
The matchmaking is just a joke, it seems that the average score of the 2 teams is the same. The issue is that you don't have the player base to manage that proprelly. When you are in silver rank, the game should put you with other silver rank, that's what commun sens says. But since the average player is bronze/unranked, the game take your 1000+ points and put you with 0 point player to average your score. But in the other side? Well you have 4 people with bronze rank who can at least manage to do something. A player CANNOT manage to carry any game in this kind of situation.
It's deeply unfun because that mean that if you re good, you have no way to enjoy to solo queue because your team will be in average, worse and worse. With the player base who is playing, I can only see one thing: Completly randomize queue. If you have a full team of platinium against newcomers? Well bad luck but the system will only give 10 points for this victory.

Just lost a pvp match for a healer who disconnected before the match even started and lost 25 points and now back to 500 points again. Seriously, FIX THIS. Its not rewarding, it doesn't give us an incentive to run your content or "look forward" to your preseason rewards. It just pisses people off. I still don't know why premade 4v4 doesn't allow rank points, whotf thought this was a good idea!?

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

I still don't know why premade 4v4 doesn't allow rank points, whotf thought this was a good idea!?

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You can't win trade in solo queue, which makes the rank you get in solo queue a "real" rank.

I still think SE should only award feast bonus items for organized tournament events, and teams have to register to participate, rather than setting the cats loose come 3.25 and hoping for the best in solo queue hell.

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

You can't win trade in solo queue, which makes the rank you get in solo queue a "real" rank.

I still think SE should only award feast bonus items for organized tournament events, and teams have to register to participate, rather than setting the cats loose come 3.25 and hoping for the best in solo queue hell.

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I think they should just delay the season till 3.3 when they have a better idea on how to do things. If rewards remain the same and only come from solo queue, there's honestly no point in it.