MRD is now broken just as ARC in previous patch. =_=

PGL doesn't fair well in the Ifrit battle because their best skill now has a 60s cd. Standing in close doesn't really make or break the fight with 3 mage setups. 2 mage/5 DPS setups are a lot faster though.

LNC in OP suck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I have EVERY battle class to 50 and I've done Ifrit with a few different classes and I can say.....

Glad is STILL the best tank... without question....
The most HP.. the best defensive abilities (Which may be cross class but Glad have longer times and shorter cooldowns with them), full use of Provoke (pound for pound the best hate getting ability not counting cures or damage) and the use of a shield, which, even if it doesn't proc as much, its another piece that can have materia added to it, materia like +70HP or +20 defense.... The only thing MRD does over Glad is damage. And damage is a viable hate holder... but still... thats what your DD is for. In the long haul, Glad beats MRD at tanking....

Lancer is THE BEST DPS.... Mrd hits the hardest but is TOO SLOW to one on one out DPS the Lancer, or even the Pugilist for that matter. Gear, Materia, weapons, abilities and players skill level all influence your DPS....
Lancers with Speed Surge and Pugilists with can do more DPS... trust me
Also the MRD has higher HP and uses heavy plate with more defense, so it's possible the MRD had to spend less time healing himself... Honestly, most of your parties Damage was low as crap... I have parsed the Ifrit battle fr dozens of fights... many of them wins.... (and MANY of them loses)... I can assure you.... Lancer does more damage....
And honestly, the dated banneret lance BLOWS
Ifrit Harpoon, Champion's Lance or Hart guisarme for the win....

Marauder does the best AOE damage.... but they are super slow.... once all three of your regular abilities are on cool down and you have no TP... you will sit looking at the screen for days waiting on your character to do something... anything... that is your balance... Slow hard hitting MRD, lower hitting, but super fast and crazy critting Pugilist or the balance of Lancer, that is decently quick with Speed surge and does really good damage with Doomspike... and can damage a crowd if you know what you're doing

So MRD own at the beast strongholds... let them have their shiny moment... Every one will have their place to show their stuff

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Sorry but not, GLA is inferior to MRD in every way in the Ifrit encounter, I have tried with both MRD and GLA personaly, and I'm close to around 50-60 attempts and 14 or so kills (had alot of problems with posisions and animation lagg etc)

But both me and everyone I've been with all can easily agree MRD is superior, MRD takes less damage due to parry being WAY more reliable then block, MRD do around 3-4x the damage GLA does, MRD can hold hate easily without even using provoke (warmonger and pure DPS as well as second wind2 self heal is plenty enough).

Having equal experience on tanking Ifrit as both classes I can say that MRD makes the fight alot easier both in terms of how fast you kill, the strain on healers and no need for DD to hold back dps (2-3 of our LNC sports ifrit harpoons).

Tanking on GLA hate is somehing that constantly needs to monitored and the GLA has to spend alot of time just using accomplice drums voke etc to maintain good aggro on the boss.

For smaller content such as beastmen strongholds GLA has much higher survability but in AOE fights they have little to no chance to hold hate well.

GLA desperatly needs a huge buff in both dd, emnity and dmg migniation on high end content, unless the devs realise how broken GLA is atm we wont have a fix until PLD is out.

I rolled a GLA as main to tank, not to have its only use being a rank 36 ability, I want to tank with sword and board like tradional RPG tanks do...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Choyi

Sorry but not, GLA is inferior to MRD in every way in the Ifrit encounter, I have tried with both MRD and GLA personaly, and I'm close to around 50-60 attempts and 14 or so kills (had alot of problems with posisions and animation lagg etc)

But both me and everyone I've been with all can easily agree MRD is superior, MRD takes less damage due to parry being WAY more reliable then block, MRD do around 3-4x the damage GLA does, MRD can hold hate easily without even using provoke (warmonger and pure DPS as well as second wind2 self heal is plenty enough).

Having equal experience on tanking Ifrit as both classes I can say that MRD makes the fight alot easier both in terms of how fast you kill, the strain on healers and no need for DD to hold back dps (2-3 of our LNC sports ifrit harpoons).

Tanking on GLA hate is somehing that constantly needs to monitored and the GLA has to spend alot of time just using accomplice drums voke etc to maintain good aggro on the boss.

For smaller content such as beastmen strongholds GLA has much higher survability but in AOE fights they have little to no chance to hold hate well.

GLA desperatly needs a huge buff in both dd, emnity and dmg migniation on high end content, unless the devs realise how broken GLA is atm we wont have a fix until PLD is out.

I rolled a GLA as main to tank, not to have its only use being a rank 36 ability, I want to tank with sword and board like tradional RPG tanks do...

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Yes Glad needs damage buff.... But enmity? not at all... When you think about Damage IS enmity....
Also Glad gets full enmity from Provoke, which is the biggest enmity generator, aside from damage and cure....
Glads provoke has the lowest cooldown, SO does Sentinel, Obsess and Rampart, which on Glad can be used a lot more often....
Parry doesn't proc any more frequently than blocks for me... and thats parsed data....
If Glad had Storm's path that generated enmity and did the same damage then we would be saying Glad is OP
All Glad needs is a Storm's path type ability that does that kind of damage, even if it isn't AOE and all would be rig with the world

Glad does not take more damage than MRD in any way shape or form.... so technically, MRD isn't better than glad on Ifrit in every way... just in one specific way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Glad does not take more damage than MRD in any way shape or form.... so technically, MRD isn't better than glad on Ifrit in every way... just in one specific way

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But in fact they do, block is not 100% avoidance chance, while parry trough foresight is, with the limited amount of attacks which CAN be avoided on Ifrit having a reliable ability DOES make the MRD take less dmg (even a GLA NOT using shield and using foresight will come out taking less dmg) we have done extensive testing on this.

Rampart and sentinel can both be subbed with swordsmanship granting almost exact same duration and mignation (rampart rly needs a buff to warrant it long cooldown) obsess is totaly useless vs Ifrit subbed or not.
Using voke more often isnt agood argument since MRD tank does not need to use it at all, all it does is making you use another GCD (gloobal cooldown, excuse the WoW-ish term) meaning youre not swinging at that time doing nay dmg.
On top of all GLA got a huge nerf with 1.19 with not being able to parry at all, not even with Foresight, unless they unequip their shield.

And the thing is, even if they where equal in dmg taken, why would you got with a tank that does around 5k dmg a fight instead of a tank which can put out 12-15k a fight?
Not to mentioned that MRD can selfheal more often with Bloodthirst stacked with buffed maim or similar for 450-600 hp.

While I've disagreed with you for most of the post I have to agree with one thing, GLA definatly needs a Storms Path type ability (Riot blade simply does not cut it, especialy with the pacify debuff you get from it).

Besides that either GLA needs a big defensive boost or MRD needs a defensive nerf, cause atm on content that people will care for min maxing they will look at both MRD and GLA, see the damage taken is very even and in some cases even favors the MRD slightly and say "well, to make the fight easier we better take the tank who will do 20% of Ifrits Hp in dmg."

In Darkhold some groups favored MRD tanks, but with a tradeoff, MRD took quite a bit more dmg on Batraal (back when GLA shield skills actualy did jack) in turn for doing a lot more damage thus better their chances to make a speed run.

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Originally Posted by Alise

First of all, in general idea that most people would find it balance :

In term attack :
PGL as 1 v 1 focus on highest Dps.
MRD as in focus on highest Dps to AoE.
LNC ,with many AoE and single skills, should be ranked in second as in 1v1 and AoE in Dps.

In term of defend :
PGL focus on evasion.
MRD focus on HP and def.
LNC focus on his distant attack and WS drain ability. ( you notice big use of this distant in Ifrit fight)

However, what is MRD really become now is...

-Better choice as tank than GLA. (notice all advance team in Ifrit fight use MRD as tank? also this happened in Orge fight back on 1.18 too.)
-Strongest AoE DPs.
-Strongest 1v1 Dps. !! (This is what surprised me, but it is still debatable as second best! )

From the 1v1 Dps, I saw it from data of parsar that my MRD friend showed me in Ifrit fight:

From this, it is noticeable jump in total damage. from LNC to MRD. which is not acceptable when MRD has much higher HP and chance to survive in the fight. It is debatable that the players who play LNC isn't good enough. However, you know this is a big jump in data, and MRD has malm that help everybody in PT to do more damage too. (this doesn't shown in parsar, because it boost everyone)


In Stronghold :
- MRD is most favor class because of its known best AoE attack, and that some NM boss key farming PT will form the team with fewest people and selection choice as MRD.

In Ifrit :
- MRD is the better choice than GLA for advance team tanking, and he is also insert into DD team too, while PGL on the another hand, is not favor at all in this fight.

Conclusion :
- patch 1.19 = the Patch of MRD.

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Funny...I break 3k with my lancer...barely reach 2.5k with my mrd in terms of hp...

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Originally Posted by Physic

this is a bad concept, of old biases.

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No its called balanced and fair gameplay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irana

Funny...I break 3k with my lancer...barely reach 2.5k with my mrd in terms of hp...

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Odd in dd gear my MRD has around 3.1k and in tank gear reaching 3.8k, but I haven't notice a big difference in HP between Pug Mrd or Lnc since 1.19 theyre alll pretty much the same give or take a 100 hp .... Are you playing 1.18 still perhaps? =D

If DD have to hold back for any reason you're doing it wrong even as Gladiator. Plenty of hate tools for pretty much any class to hold hate if they want to.

That said, I agree that Gladiators need something to define them as tanks, as right now there is no reason to bring one to anything be it spirtbond grinds, dungeons, or Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

If DD have to hold back for any reason you're doing it wrong even as Gladiator. Plenty of hate tools for pretty much any class to hold hate if they want to.

That said, I agree that Gladiators need something to define them as tanks, as right now there is no reason to bring one to anything be it spirtbond grinds, dungeons, or Ifrit.

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Yes, GLA, ARC, PGL, have the same problem now that they aren't useful in PT as LNC/MRD.
I think they shouldn't make MRD be this good in tanking to begin with. With an end-game content such as Ifrit, they should make it that MRD can't survive as tank, so people will be forced to use Gla.

For ARC, may be add some content that need range attack more. since I think it is good that ARC is not the highest Dps anymore.

For PGL, I m not sure his definite role in PT,.. may be he should have more 1v1 Dps buff to make it more outstanding than LNC/MRD and add content that require evasion.

we still have another battle system patch comming that may fix this issue, you would think the guy with the shield would be the "TANK" but you know square-enix logic.

Glds only problem is how much they nerfed block rate, mrd honestly is more or less the same as prepatch outside the boosted hp... and glad got that too more so then mrd.

Before gld sacraficed almost all dmg for a huge mitigation of dmg. 100% physical attack resistance with aegis boon and deflection and sentiel thrown in at the end made a cycle where Gld could negate almost everything. Now that same cycle only stops maby 30-40% of the dmg (roughly the same as mrd with parry).

Gld needs to get Gld only traits that really increase enmity, or they need to up shield block rate by a least another 50%. Or Mrd will simply remain the powerhouse.

Atm gld is nothing more then a subjob to get rampart, sentinel, and a few other abilities. I am hoping they make PLD a godly tank again compared to mrd, I miss that style of tanking... tanking by spamming storm's path seems almost cheating.

No one will be happy until every class is the same will they?

MRD is supposed to be crazyton'o'dmg. I think instead of inciting an all out argument with the title you should have just titled it PUG needs a boost. lol.

also just my opinion i would see PUG as good damage, but more evasive. Archer decent damage but ranged. MRD Great damage but defenseless.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

MRD is supposed to be crazyton'o'dmg. I think instead of inciting an all out argument with the title you should have just titled it PUG needs a boost. lol.

also just my opinion i would see PUG as good damage, but more evasive. Archer decent damage but ranged. MRD Great damage but defenseless.

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ehhh marauder has to be able to tank to some level or it makes no sense. honestly marauder is where and how it should play, gladiator is the one that isnt coming together right.

low emnity, low dmg, and not enough control in fights. mrd has parry skills pug got ev skills, but glads block skill is a long timer and a short duration, how can a glad make good use of such a low block rate, maybe dex is the answer, i dunno

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alise

Yes, GLA, ARC, PGL, have the same problem now that they aren't useful in PT as LNC/MRD.
I think they shouldn't make MRD be this good in tanking to begin with. With an end-game content such as Ifrit, they should make it that MRD can't survive as tank, so people will be forced to use Gla.

For ARC, may be add some content that need range attack more. since I think it is good that ARC is not the highest Dps anymore.

For PGL, I m not sure his definite role in PT,.. may be he should have more 1v1 Dps buff to make it more outstanding than LNC/MRD and add content that require evasion.

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Dear god... No no and no. Should Glads get buffed, yes. Should they take a lot less damage than a Mrd, yes. Should they do more damage than a Mrd, no. Why would you want to pigeon hole to one class for tanking. That will make the game boring.

One thing they need to do is give archers auto attack in the form of range attacks. Get rid of the melee garbage they got going on. Seriously whoever thought that was a good idea should get demoted. Who the hell is going to pick archer for end game when every move they do is an ability lock position...

does seem overpowered, i agree. Each class should have a unique specialization. Being Tank, DPS and AoE pro is overkill.
I would expect this to be nerfed proly next patch.

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Originally Posted by DGMart

Why would you want to pigeon hole to one class for tanking. That will make the game boring.

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Do you really think this isn't going to happen with Paladin anyway ?
If SE have made Paladin correctly that is, it will be the only choice as tank in full party content.

Nerf maim max damage, lower the resistance to the Maim debuff.

Problem solved, everyone is happy. MRD aren't nerfed into oblivion, and other classes can DD their little hearts out.

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Originally Posted by Gennosuke

does seem overpowered, i agree. Each class should have a unique specialization. Being Tank, DPS and AoE pro is overkill.
I would expect this to be nerfed proly next patch.

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Aha, my point exactly,
If MRD gonna be AoE pro, then he shouldn't get Dps and tank. if he gonna be Dps, then he shouldn't be AoE pro and tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alise

Aha, my point exactly,
If MRD gonna be AoE pro, then he shouldn't get Dps and tank. if he gonna be Dps, then he shouldn't be AoE pro and tank.

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Why not? MRD is not the best DPS or Tank. Marauder was my first class and it has ALWAYS been defined by it's AOE and enmity.

I'm sorry everyone's THMs/ARCs are not OP anymore but they had a full year of being ridiculously OP.

Marauder is not that OP. I don't see it being as OP as the previous mentioned classes because it does not really keep other classes out of the party. People still tank Ifrit just as successfully with a GLA Tank. LNC is still going to be preferred for DPS against Ifrit. It isn't keeping any mages out of any parties.

PUG is a whole other story. PUG needs a buff so that it's not treated like left overs.

Look, i'm sorry your LNC isn't the king of the stronghold parties but it shines very well in other settings. Marauder is not overpowered. Fact of the matter is; if there were no strongholds this discussion probably would not even be happening. Let Marauder play the way it was supposed to be played. We were the whipping boys for a long time :P.

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Originally Posted by Deregalo

Why not? MRD is not the best DPS or Tank. Marauder was my first class and it has ALWAYS been defined by it's AOE and enmity.

I'm sorry everyone's THMs/ARCs are not OP anymore but they had a full year of being ridiculously OP.

Marauder is not that OP. I don't see it being as OP as the previous mentioned classes because it does not really keep other classes out of the party. People still tank Ifrit just as successfully with a GLA Tank. LNC is still going to be preferred for DPS against Ifrit. It isn't keeping any mages out of any parties.

PUG is a whole other story. PUG needs a buff so that it's not treated like left overs.

Look, i'm sorry your LNC isn't the king of the stronghold parties but it shines very well in other settings. Marauder is not overpowered. Fact of the matter is; if there were no strongholds this discussion probably would not even be happening. Let Marauder play the way it was supposed to be played. We were the whipping boys for a long time :P.

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I agree, the whole idea that a class should only be able to one thing is foolish, if marauder cant take hits, how can it be an aoe master? If marauder dmg is nerfed, you will never see it again outside of aoe grind parties, aka no big boss battles. The problem lies withing glad, it is currently unbalanced.

Pug could also use a boost, but it isnt really bad, its just that in the AOE heavy world, they arent excelling, and in the 1 on 1, they are tied or slightly behind, which kind of says, huh? But its not like they are useless, 1 on 1, they are good enough, it will probably come down to who has better build/gear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Physic

I agree, the whole idea that a class should only be able to one thing is foolish, if marauder cant take hits, how can it be an aoe master? If marauder dmg is nerfed, you will never see it again outside of aoe grind parties, aka no big boss battles. The problem lies withing glad, it is currently unbalanced.

Pug could also use a boost, but it isnt really bad, its just that in the AOE heavy world, they arent excelling, and in the 1 on 1, they are tied or slightly behind, which kind of says, huh? But its not like they are useless, 1 on 1, they are good enough, it will probably come down to who has better build/gear

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It really isn't that bad? So what are you trying to say? You trying to justify the lack of balance when it comes to Pug? I find it strange esp seeing from your sig that Pug is your main too. Sorry but No it is not acceptable that Pug gets shafted. You just said that Pug could be even slightly behind and pretty much sucks on AoE and is obviously not a tank role.

So It's not a:

1) Tank
2) Not an AoE class
3) Not the best DPS

What's the point of this class again? This is unacceptable lack of balance in the game when a class like MRD comes and excels in all 3 areas. Pug obviously has no demand in parties or end game content. I find it funny Yoshi mentioned one of the directors tries to push the battle Dev leader to improve Pug since he is fond of it, yet we can see it take the back-seat out of all melee classes. Pity, i actually only play it because i like the class and find it an enjoyable one to play, but reality is it is the weakest and most useless out of them all. It's not that it could use a buff. It needs a buff desperately.

Mrd owns with Storm's path. Makes Aura Pulse look like a joke with AoE.
Lnc owns with Doomspike, makes Seismic Shock and Victimize look like a joke considering it's a multi-mob hit, combining both abilities, Spike dmg + Straight line AoE.
Gld/Mrd own with tanking, makes Pug look like a joke of a tank.

So where is Pug shining exactly? Solo? Evasion? Pfft.

It's just wrong to have to play other classes just because the class you enjoy is useless compared to the rest. Every class should have something important enough to offer, even moreso in a party setting or people will just avoid it as is the case.

Pug needs some desperate help. Please make this class more useful SE.

We are going through balance changes, next patch Pug might be the flavor of the month. As far as DPS goes, depends on the gear and really on the player when it comes to DPS on Ifrit. Our Lncs usually do 11k+ of damage for regular fights and as much as 17k (when we went with a person that had never done the fight and he was dead most of it so it was basically 7 manned, took FOREVER).

However, one of our top DPS lnc went MRD and posted over 10k, even out damaging some lncs. So player skill and gear in this fight will take you a long way. As far as best single target DPS, lnc is king this patch, with MRD a close second.

Our lone pug is not so far behind, he can still hit 9k+ pretty much every fight.

Seems like Increasing Glad's blocking would solve everyone's problems

1.20 is gonna completely overhaul abilities and weaponskills... and add self combos... we'll see what that does for balance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Seems like Increasing Glad's blocking would solve everyone's problems

1.20 is gonna completely overhaul abilities and weaponskills... and add self combos... we'll see what that does for balance

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I really hope so cause archer got kicked in the damn teeth, the job isn't even useable anymore IMO. Bloodletter Dot + base damage got nerfed, multishot + raging strike nerf (even though raging strikes works on LNC choas thrust), all around lower damage on everything. Animation locks make it completely worthless on Ifrit fight as well.

Then you look at LNC/MRD and there WS/base damage went up alot with the removal of the physical level.

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Originally Posted by JudgeN

multishot + raging strike nerf (even though raging strikes works on LNC choas thrust)

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In Lancer's defense, Chaos Thrust is a level 50 2000tp weapon skill and light shot is a level 1 free ability

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gennosuke

It really isn't that bad? So what are you trying to say? You trying to justify the lack of balance when it comes to Pug? I find it strange esp seeing from your sig that Pug is your main too. Sorry but No it is not acceptable that Pug gets shafted. You just said that Pug could be even slightly behind and pretty much sucks on AoE and is obviously not a tank role.

So It's not a:

1) Tank
2) Not an AoE class
3) Not the best DPS

What's the point of this class again? This is unacceptable lack of balance in the game when a class like MRD comes and excels in all 3 areas. Pug obviously has no demand in parties or end game content. I find it funny Yoshi mentioned one of the directors tries to push the battle Dev leader to improve Pug since he is fond of it, yet we can see it take the back-seat out of all melee classes. Pity, i actually only play it because i like the class and find it an enjoyable one to play, but reality is it is the weakest and most useless out of them all. It's not that it could use a buff. It needs a buff desperately.

Mrd owns with Storm's path. Makes Aura Pulse look like a joke with AoE.
Lnc owns with Doomspike, makes Seismic Shock and Victimize look like a joke considering it's a multi-mob hit, combining both abilities, Spike dmg + Straight line AoE.
Gld/Mrd own with tanking, makes Pug look like a joke of a tank.

So where is Pug shining exactly? Solo? Evasion? Pfft.

It's just wrong to have to play other classes just because the class you enjoy is useless compared to the rest. Every class should have something important enough to offer, even moreso in a party setting or people will just avoid it as is the case.

Pug needs some desperate help. Please make this class more useful SE.

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oh i agree pug needs a boost, victimize is as good as doomspike on single targets, however, its single target, and more importantly has a 60 second cool down. As far as tanking/dd, i think pug can excel with the use of materia for evasion, but thats kind of like weird to suck unless you get specific materias.

Anyhow what im really saying is glad is the class that most needs a buff right now, whereas pug with a few tweaks can easily come back, increase the duration of light strike, or/and increase victimize dmg or lower recast add gear that actually benfits pugilist (higher defense and evasion) and its good to go.

glad needs to retweak the whole shield mechanic to make sense when blocking isnt guaranteed, or add more skills that guarantee a block, or lower cooldowns. They kind of have to either look at blocking or rework its whole dmg level, or do both.
so pug is a quick fix, though i hope that somehow they are the best at comboing for whatever reason, also they seem to want to give us high int, and access to magic, but i dont see how thats useful with current spells, not many offensive spells are worth the cast time or mana for pugilist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudgeN

I really hope so cause archer got kicked in the damn teeth, the job isn't even useable anymore IMO. Bloodletter Dot + base damage got nerfed, multishot + raging strike nerf (even though raging strikes works on LNC choas thrust), all around lower damage on everything. Animation locks make it completely worthless on Ifrit fight as well.

Then you look at LNC/MRD and there WS/base damage went up alot with the removal of the physical level.

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raging strike works on weapon skills, including barrage and quick nock. Honestly i dont think archer should be a high DD class, it should be a CC support DD hybrid, a good balance would be the ability to do that all, while creating one big shot. I would add more special effect weapon skills, or arrows, and more CC abilities. blood letter is a good type of execution of DD that you dont have to come back to.

Archer cant be the best dps, as long as its also the least risk, if they change fights to do more hate free dmg, and ranged opponent tactics, then yeah archer can be big DD, but otherwise ehhhh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

In Lancer's defense, Chaos Thrust is a level 50 2000tp weapon skill and light shot is a level 1 free ability

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Multishot has a 15 second cool down. LNC can easily get over 2000tp in that time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Multishot has a 15 second cool down. LNC can easily get over 2000tp in that time.

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Yes... however... Chaos Thrust might be 6 hits... BUT all six hits essentially function as 1 weaponskill.... look at the damage
at 2000 TP, Chaos thrust and Doomspike do pretty close damage
where as light strike after multishot really is 3 hits

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Physic

raging strike works on weapon skills, including barrage and quick nock. Honestly i dont think archer should be a high DD class, it should be a CC support DD hybrid, a good balance would be the ability to do that all, while creating one big shot. I would add more special effect weapon skills, or arrows, and more CC abilities. blood letter is a good type of execution of DD that you dont have to come back to.

Archer cant be the best dps, as long as its also the least risk, if they change fights to do more hate free dmg, and ranged opponent tactics, then yeah archer can be big DD, but otherwise ehhhh

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I think you need to realise how poor arc is, saying we shouldn't be top dps currently is completely rediculous. what are we supposed to be, we have very few useful TP abilities for debuffing or anything. so thats makes us a pure dps role which is currently rock bottom of the DPS tree. To many people are bitter over how strong archer was and are holding it against them, Surely the game should be aiming for balanced dps class which can be used in all encounters.

That level1 non WS isn't free, its called an arrow which i pay for over and over. I pay for my ranged advantage i shouldn't also pay with less than optimal dps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scodia

I think you need to realise how poor arc is, saying we shouldn't be top dps currently is completely rediculous. what are we supposed to be, we have very few useful TP abilities for debuffing or anything. so thats makes us a pure dps role which is currently rock bottom of the DPS tree. To many people are bitter over how strong archer was and are holding it against them, Surely the game should be aiming for balanced dps class which can be used in all encounters.

That level1 non WS isn't free, its called an arrow which i pay for over and over. I pay for my ranged advantage i shouldn't also pay with less than optimal dps.

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We are rock button now but we pay for arrows so we can have a ranged advantage (ie not in AOE range), not be so we can be top tier DD. I'm not asking for archer to be the best I'm asking for to be a viable class and as it stands right now that isn't the case. All of our options have been nerfed to the point of uselessness, SE really needs to go back and look at this job and fix it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Do you really think this isn't going to happen with Paladin anyway ?
If SE have made Paladin correctly that is, it will be the only choice as tank in full party content.

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Well let's hope warriors can tank as well. One class as a tank is bad design.