By pity Square Enix, redesign Garuda-Egi

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

How can we use PS3/low-end PC limitations as an excuse for not getting new Egis, Egi glamours, or better looking Egis? Look at the summons on FFXI. They look exactly like their primal/eikon counterpart and they follow you around. Didn't matter if there were a bajillion summoners around with their summons out. No one's PS2 exploded. ( ~.ø)b

Just some examples....

http://i57.tinypic.com/2qizmyv.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/fi..._060703_01.jpg

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20060922075035

http://zam.zamimg.com/ffxi/i/images/mobs/Diabolos-S.jpg

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It makes me want to cry. I don't even care about egi's height, just give them a good design, they look lifeless and they don't even have eyes

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Leave it to me to forget parts of the Summoner class quests...usually I'm pretty good about remembering that stuff, but the limitation in the lore completely escaped my memory.

And yeah, Egi based on the Warring Triad would be awesome.

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Here's a little demonstration.

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It is in the lore.

It's no longer in the lore.

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Did you see what I did there?

Instead of writing these holes for themselves, they could just... not... so that if they ever decide to add something later down the line, they don't have to worry about the silly little thing they wrote in the lore.

I believe they term is... retcon... it's happened in this game a few times already actually.

Anyway, I'd rather have glamours or as the other post suggested "alternate costume" for existing Egi's than new ones, as it's way easier to implement that over balancing and so on.

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Originally Posted by Kupocoubo

It makes me want to cry. I don't even care about egi's height, just give them a good design, they look lifeless and they don't even have eyes

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I am crying since 2.0
Every time such topic becomes "active" again its like stabbing in the heart...
Just 3 Egis? There is no excuse...
Design of Egis? There is no excuse...
Level up and skilltree for Egis? There is no excuse...

Tears will never dry out!
Its raining... but hope dies last...

We dont have awesome weapons like DRK or other Jobs, at least let us have some awesome "Summons"

Honestly, and if anyone wants to flame me then, by all means, have at it, but Smn should be more like Smn in FFXI. There Smn was what it was supposed to be. Here well, it's more like a half ass Smn that is more focused on DoTs than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Kupocoubo

Why is that Titan Egi looks like Titan

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wut?

Titan egi looks like a chicken nugget

also

http://i.imgur.com/CF1EpjO.jpg

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

How can we use PS3/low-end PC limitations as an excuse for not getting new Egis, Egi glamours, or better looking Egis? Look at the summons on FFXI. They look exactly like their primal/eikon counterpart and they follow you around. Didn't matter if there were a bajillion summoners around with their summons out. No one's PS2 exploded. ( ~.ø)b

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Lol, yes they did. Did you ever go out into Batallia Downs when Summoners were leveling up their summon magic? Let's skip PS2's, my PC from back then was practically begging me to put it out of it's misery any time I needed to take a trip out to the Necropolis.

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

Honestly, and if anyone wants to flame me then, by all means, have at it, but Smn should be more like Smn in FFXI. There Smn was what it was supposed to be. Here well, it's more like a half ass Smn that is more focused on DoTs than anything else.

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If this change were to ever happen, I hope you'd be happy with a vastly frailer Egi that you have to micromanage even harder while dealing with mechanics. Good luck doing that with latency.

Also, good luck getting into a party. I'd very much be against an XI style Egi blocking my view when I'm trying to dodge attacks and deal with mechanics.

^^' since the SMN job is available, most of us asked what you are asking OP...but they just don't care unfortunatly.

Imo SMN job is just ruined instead of focusing dots, we should use our summons but for real and each pet should have some real skills and not only 4 come on we are lv60...even our fairy as sch...for me it's a lazy job design but maybe it's intended cause for SE most of their players are too idiot for playing a "complex" job XD (but well when we can see certain people as PU...they aren't wrong haha XD it's another story).

Pets are just some spangles "omg i have got a pet!!!!" but concretely they should be more useful than that for a pet class.

Concerning the fact to be able to summon others primals? What will it change? Nothing, cause SE is just focused on tank/heal/dps so Ramuh will be what? another caster like garuda? or a mix between caster and melee? Shiva will be a tank with her shield and her sword? etc etc in fact only the skin will change but not their utility concerning the SMN gameplay, just my theory...that's why i think since the beginning that the SMN job is just a mess.

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

How can we use PS3/low-end PC limitations as an excuse for not getting new Egis, Egi glamours, or better looking Egis? Look at the summons on FFXI. They look exactly like their primal/eikon counterpart and they follow you around. Didn't matter if there were a bajillion summoners around with their summons out. No one's PS2 exploded. ( ~.ø)b

Just some examples....

http://i57.tinypic.com/2qizmyv.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/fi..._060703_01.jpg

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20060922075035

http://zam.zamimg.com/ffxi/i/images/mobs/Diabolos-S.jpg

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Having never played FFXI beyond a few levels, this post right here sort of gut-punches me, and makes me sad for the sorry excuse for pets that SMN get. Come on, SE, you can obviously do better. It doesn't need to be super-duper-high-poly-count fancy, but it can certainly be better than what you've given us.

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Originally Posted by AstralKaos

Instead of writing these holes for themselves, they could just... not... so that if they ever decide to add something later down the line, they don't have to worry about the silly little thing they wrote in the lore.

I believe they term is... retcon... it's happened in this game a few times already actually.

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I'd rather they come up with creative ways as to why it "works now" and didn't in the past, which isn't a retcon, it's a development in the lore. That would be better than not having the lore in the first place (for such a lore heavy game as this), and certainly better than retcons.

Simply doing a retcon of previous lore isn't generally the way to do it anyway - you can have new information that comes to light that changes what you know, or what you thought you knew (understanding of primals over time, the history of Ul'dah and Sil'dah, and obviously the Dragonsong War are good examples), and that's a good way to expand on the lore while not necessarily locking it in 100%. Showing the Summoner grow in skill and power so that they can attune themselves to more than three egi at a time would likewise be a good development of the lore, and much better than a retcon that makes it so they were always able to do it.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Chop chop

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I agree, simply doing a retcon of things isn't great. And the lore in this game is also great, and of course very important... however, when they write in excuses for things as lore reasons, then it isn't great, and writing an active block into what could be further developments is also not good.

Self-imposed reasons for limiting Egi's, is something they didn't need to have put in. But now it's here, I guess the best course of action, should they ever add new Egi's is to, like you said, add reasons that you can now do something you couldn't before.

My point really was when replying to you was, people shouldn't yap up all of this lore stuff when some of it is absurd or in some cases (PvP) an actual detriment.

Flying cat vomit is beautiful, though

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

How can we use PS3/low-end PC limitations as an excuse for not getting new Egis, Egi glamours, or better looking Egis? Look at the summons on FFXI. They look exactly like their primal/eikon counterpart and they follow you around. Didn't matter if there were a bajillion summoners around with their summons out. No one's PS2 exploded. ( ~.ø)b

Just some examples....

http://i57.tinypic.com/2qizmyv.jpg

http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/fi..._060703_01.jpg

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20060922075035

http://zam.zamimg.com/ffxi/i/images/mobs/Diabolos-S.jpg

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I have never played FFXI at all, so I had no real problem with our egis until I read this post. What the *hell*, SE? A game that could run on the PS2 has both more summons AND better looking ones? REALLY? It wasn't a big deal, but I WAS disappointed the first time I did my Summoner lv30 quest and realized I wasn't a classic FF summoner. But I thought oh well and moved on. But knowing that the mmo before this one you COULD do that...bluuuuuh.

and u guys dont want to see the animations.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOBxRZ6_ZnE

the astral flow (2h) were cool as hell , i loved the garuda one , u dont really appreciate it in that video it was a really big aero explosion

https://laurinffxi.files.wordpress.c...04/fenrir1.jpg

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...FXI/158750.jpg

http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200407/17...7259_31045.jpg

LOL! I found this:

http://i.imgur.com/d0Fqk7p.jpg

dont forget FFXV summons LOL

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y_0OCZC8TVY/maxresdefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/o...FXI/158750.jpg

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Oh god. That's just obnoxiously huge. I wouldn't want a summoner around at all in a raid.

"Why didn't you move out of that AoE?"

"I didn't even see it because the summoner's giant-ass robot was humping my leg."

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

LOL! I found this:

http://i.imgur.com/d0Fqk7p.jpg

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And completely irrelevant. Summoner in XIV never claimed to be the Summoners from the rest of the series. Summoners from the rest of the series meaning: White Mages/Black Mages with worthless espers/eidolons/aeons/summons/guardian forces tacked on for story purposes.

VII: Knights of the Round is the only viable Summon.

VII: GFs exist for junction. Outclassed by everything else.

XII: You use the very first one you obtain once to open a door.

XIII: Vanille Death Trick for early Trapezohedrons.

III, V and Tactics are the only outliers where summoning is the primary focus of the summoner character, but summoners aren't considered good jobs in any of those games.

They all look rubbish. They spoke of a glamour system for egi's but I doubt it will ever happen.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

and u guys dont want to see the animations.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOBxRZ6_ZnE

the astral flow (2h) were cool as hell , i loved the garuda one , u dont really appreciate it in that video it was a really big aero explosion

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Please, stop opening old wounds! T-T

The early game Death Trick involves using an eidolon to knock an Adamantoise down, debuffing the crap out of it and then spamming Death and hope for RNGesus to be with you.

Death can only be used if Vanille is the party leader. Only the party leader can summon. As such, Hecatoncheir is definitely used in the Death Trick.

The reality of design is simple. Egi's can't block the view of other players and they can't demean the original primals. Shrinking Garuda down does make her look laughable and not threatening. Having them the size of FFXI Avatar would block players view and might miss damage markers and such.

Having said that Garuda's Egi does need work. I would love to see players re-imagining of the Egi's using the two guidelines that I posted above.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

And completely irrelevant. Summoner in XIV never claimed to be the Summoners from the rest of the series. Summoners from the rest of the series meaning: White Mages/Black Mages with worthless espers/eidolons/aeons/summons/guardian forces tacked on for story purposes.

VII: Knights of the Round is the only viable Summon.

VII: GFs exist for junction. Outclassed by everything else.

XII: You use the very first one you obtain once to open a door.

XIII: Vanille Death Trick for early Trapezohedrons.

III, V and Tactics are the only outliers where summoning is the primary focus of the summoner character, but summoners aren't considered good jobs in any of those games.

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This is so bafflingly wrong. There are many great summons in FFVII, most of which don't take multiple minutes of cast time. The ONLY context in which Knights of the Round is the "only viable" one is the Weapon superbosses. GFs do exist mostly for junctioning, but many are very useful in battle. I like how you ignored FFX and FFIV and entirely since it's a big deal both narratively and gameplay-wise for Yuna and Rydia.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Oh god. That's just obnoxiously huge. I wouldn't want a summoner around at all in a raid.

"Why didn't you move out of that AoE?"

"I didn't even see it because the summoner's giant-ass robot was humping my leg."

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Forget raids, I wouldn't want to deal with them in ANY content, open world or instanced. I guess it'd be a good job to afk in housing... and do absolutely nothing else.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

FFX and FFIV.

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The summons in 7 were viable, but they weren't better than using regular magic to more quickly and efficiently take down enemies. Many of the summons in 7, 8, and especially 10 are hardly better than just spamming heavy thrust in this game. 10's summons, while important from a narrative perspective, were significantly more annoying to deal with outside of the special "summon" battles Yuna had.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

This is so bafflingly wrong. There are many great summons in FFVII, most of which don't take multiple minutes of cast time. The ONLY context in which Knights of the Round is the "only viable" one is the Weapon superbosses. GFs do exist mostly for junctioning, but many are very useful in battle. I like how you ignored FFX and FFIV and entirely since it's a big deal both narratively and gameplay-wise for Yuna and Rydia.

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I already addressed story purposes. I like how you ignored that.

-Yuna does as much damage with Holy as Aeons tend to do. Not to mention the advantage of having the other characters around. And frankly, given how the game is set up, she can hit for 99,999 damage with normal attacks if you take the time to develop your characters like that.
-Rydia's Black magic is as strong and less MP/ATB intensive than her summons.
-Summon materia makes your characters weaker, and barely outdamage physical attacks early on. Magic + All materia combinations puts out similar AoE damage without as hard of a hit to your characters HP AND are available much earlier than the summons. You can sorta make a case for the Bahamut materias, but they're one shot burst damage. The only reason Knight's of the Round is viable is because it does more damage than Omnislash, allowing Mimic shenanigans to happen.
-If you know how to Junction, actually using GFs becomes a waste of time. Aura -> Limit Spam is vastly superior to any summon in the game. And it's entirely possible to do this before Disc One ends.

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Originally Posted by IzVale

Plus I never understood why Garuda is yellowish/greenish? :v

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In many RPG games the color of wind is green

You guys are never happy, you ask for something they give you something and still you don't thank them instead just attack them more.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

You guys are never happy, you ask for something they give you something and still you don't thank them instead just attack them more.

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Haha, ha... ha... umm, they gave whom, what exactly?

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Originally Posted by AstralKaos

Haha, ha... ha... umm, they gave whom, what exactly?

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IF I were SE after seeing your comment I would remove them from the update and leave people on what they have now.

Because with that kinda thinking you don't deserve it seriously, you can say whatever you want towards me but I have no issues when they give us things, if anything I rather them focus on content instead of reskinning things people have issues with.

Cause I see it all the time here, they have a new idea or someone wants something and it could be the very same people who asked for it and when they get it, its never good enough instead lets start yelling at them.

about how it looks or that's not the color I wanted or this dungeon sucks or they didn't like the armor that it looks the same, like I said cannot be happy with what you get.

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Originally Posted by AstralKaos

Haha, ha... ha... umm, they gave whom, what exactly?

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You literally get to channel the power of an Elder Primal.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

IF I were SE after seeing your comment I would remove them from the update and leave people on what they have now.

Because with that kinda thinking you don't deserve it seriously, you can say whatever you want towards me but I have no issues when they give us things, if anything I rather them focus on content instead of reskinning things people have issues with.

Cause I see it all the time here, they have a new idea or someone wants something and it could be the very same people who asked for it and when they get it, its never good enough instead lets start yelling at them.

about how it looks or that's not the color I wanted or this dungeon sucks or they didn't like the armor that it looks the same, like I said cannot be happy with what you get.

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Okay but...you didn't answer the question. Get indignant and preachy all you want but at least keep the conversation going while you do it.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

You literally get to channel the power of an Elder Primal.

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Forgive me for being confused... but this thread is about Egi appearances, and how bad they suck, which subsequently lead to Egi glamour talk... so, when someone is to barge in here preaching about "you got what you wanted, but complained" do you not think an eyebrow woukd be raised?

If he wad quoting someone, perhaps me or the other person I was talking with about Egi held limits, and then said something context appropriate (which as far as I'm concerned, he hasn't said anything contextually appropriate here) about it, then yes, the confusion wouldn't be here.

Following his next reply, which is as lacking in actual reply to what I asked as his original post was in context... he goes on to say they should remove something from the patch that hasn't been even acknowledged to be in a patch, and with "that kind of thinking"... what that thing that should be removed is and what kind of thinking I apparently revealed to him I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

You literally get to channel the power of an Elder Primal.

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Ergo more in line with an Evoker. Not a summoner. And serves as a reason to further distance themselves from Egi's/Pet's.

And the trance only lasts half as long as a base Enochian. Pitiful.

That said the Egi's have always looked stupid IMO.

I never like using Garuda except it's CONTAGION for dungeon's boss and trial only. I prefer to use Ifrit because of it's nice model and potency. If only the Contagion can be made as SMN skill, I'd like to dump Garuda forever.

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Originally Posted by AstralKaos

Forgive me for being confused... but this thread is about Egi appearances, and how bad they suck, which subsequently lead to Egi glamour talk... so, when someone is to barge in here preaching about "you got what you wanted, but complained" do you not think an eyebrow woukd be raised?

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You stated you got nothing. I pointed out you did, in fact, get something.

I've never really had a problem with how the Egis looked, personally

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

You stated you got nothing. I pointed out you did, in fact, get something.

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We asked for Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan Egi. Instead we got Moonfire. Considering SE mentioned before HW something about an Egi glamour system this is indeed a fair and honest discussion.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Ergo more in line with an Evoker. Not a summoner. And serves as a reason to further distance themselves from Egi's/Pet's.

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But to Evoke and to Summon is the exact same thing.