Live Letter 3.2 tank changes, vit effects tank attack

I dont particularly mind STR Tanks...people just need to understand that if you go that route it affects how I heal. So dont pull two floors of mobs and then ask why I'm not in Cleric Stance DPSing the whole time.

Awesome! As a healer, I'm not just excited for tanks having more HP than before, but ALSO more excited that those who chose to go full VIT beforehand will now have an easier time keeping hate.

I just hope they make our skills scale off Vit instead of STR, or those Equillibrium self heals will be puny indeed. I also hope this changes the way Living Dead works, or you'll be asking for a death wish if you don't have a WHM in your group.

As expected, removing choice, nerfing good tanks and buffing terrible tanks.


Wonder how long it'll be until healers get hp from mind accs and are unable to wear fending in pvp.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

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Do you honestly think SE will let the stupidly inflated hp pools of full vit have the same output as str currently does? Good tanks will survive just as well as they currently do and deal less damage, bad tanks will survive just as badly as they currently do and deal more damage.

Haven't read all the pages yet, just looked through the first 3, but before I continue I'd like to note something:

If VIT = STR or VIT tanking is encouraged in general, that doesn't also mean that you are no longer expected to push out DPS. As long as you are defacto hitting the boss to generate enmity/mitigate damage then your DPS contribution matters, and maximizing this (regardless of accessory choice) is a part of being a good tank. So in terms of expectations from players about how much DPS a tank should put out, that won't change - even in raids, even if they lower the DPS checks, people are going to expect you to contribute to damage.

In terms of my overall thoughts on this, I hope that SE is taking this into account for raids - as is, you could survive A1S-A4S in STR/melded, 30 STR allotment, and large amounts of times out of tank stance. Without upscaling of damage intake on the tanks, this change will just encourage even less tank stance usage which is especially disappointing for me as a WAR. However, I do think it's a good change as a general idea, but I'm wary of how it will affect certain things if they aren't also adjusted.

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

As expected, removing choice, nerfing good tanks and buffing terrible tanks.


Wonder how long it'll be until healers get hp from mind accs and are unable to wear fending in pvp.

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We haven't even seen how much we will benefit from Vit. As always, the good tanks will adjust to change, and the terrible tanks won't.

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Originally Posted by Odett

I just hope they make our skills scale off Vit instead of STR, or those Equillibrium self heals will be puny indeed. I also hope this changes the way Living Dead works, or you'll be asking for a death wish if you don't have a WHM in your group.

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As the skill states, it was based off of attack potency. It wasn't actually based on strength (that being said, it happened to be the case that attack potency and strength were 1 to 1). I see no current issues with living dead; it will become easier with better gear.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

As the skill states, it was based off of attack potency. It wasn't actually based on strength (that being said, it happened to be the case that attack potency and strength were 1 to 1). I see no current issues with living dead; it will become easier with better gear.

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That makes more sense (about attack potency). How do you see living dead becoming easier to deal with? Heal numbers will be higher with better gear, but so will a tank's HP. I already cringe whenever I use it if I'm not going full STR for a fight and I'm sitting at 18k HP with 2 vit accessories on. It sounds like a total nightmare to bring me up if I have more than 20k HP. I hope you end up being right.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Even if they reduce STR to 0.7 and bring up VIT to 0.03 to compensate (exact same damage output), the result will be the same. VIT will be worthless as soon as you reach the damage cap.

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It is far more likely that VIT will be .6 or .7 and STR will be .4 or .3, given that that's roughly the ratio that a tank in full Fending Accessories has, assuming an equal item level set, of VIT to STR. At most, it will be an even 50/50 split. They aren't that stupid. They flat out say tanks are going to want to go full VIT on accessories and stat points, which suggests they did enough basic math to set the VIT route as the one which will give you the most attack power.

I'm very happy about this change.
In DF for every good strength tank that knew what they were doing I would encounter 2 that didn't use cooldowns properly yet insisted on big pulls.

I also found it very poor game design for vitality accessories to be unwanted by the classes they were intended for and for tanks to be using dps equipment.

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

As expected, removing choice, nerfing good tanks and buffing terrible tanks.


Wonder how long it'll be until healers get hp from mind accs and are unable to wear fending in pvp.

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I'm unsure what you mean by this? The meta is being shifted so that the tank's actual tank gear is competitive with the DPS gear, meaning those that thought fending gear = tank gear aren't shafted

Also, there are terrible str tanks too, they are squishy and die a lot

I'm honestly a bit worried that the changes to VIT won't be enough to dissuade people from using STR. That, or it's gonna backfire - people will expect tanks to use Pentamelded VIT + STR because the combination of the two is 'now rediculously powerful' since it's a form of doubledipping on the Damage formula.

I am hoping SE has thought this out, but I am not hopeful. They've handled tanks very poorly so far.

I'm not really too sure what to feel about this. Unless enemy attacking power is going to significantly increase alongside this buff it kinda makes everything come off as, well, easy?

Already a full VIT tank is sitting at around 22k HP vs around 16k in full STR. That's about 6k difference in HP. With the ilvl increase you'll probably be seeing around 25k+ in full vit. A3S' Living Liquid already hits like a wet noodle vs any STR tank worth their salt, I could fall asleep with 22k HP if the fight allowed it.

Unless there is drastic changes to the damage being thrown out in 3.2, which could be a cold wake-up call for, heaven forbid, say a playing coming back from a break, etc. I think high-level play for a good tank is going to get a lot more boring.

Not saying the change is bad, I just think that the band-aid method they are applying is working way too well in the player's favor, and could lead to just lazier play unless the content that comes with it can compensate.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I'm honestly a bit worried that the changes to VIT won't be enough to dissuade people from using STR. That, or it's gonna backfire - people will expect tanks to use Pentamelded VIT + STR because the combination of the two is 'now rediculously powerful' since it's a form of doubledipping on the Damage formula.

I am hoping SE has thought this out, but I am not hopeful. They've handled tanks very poorly so far.

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Part of the changes in 3.2 makes it so you can not forbidden meld primary stat gear.

So say you have a ring with 1 materia slot, you can put a primary stat materia in that slot and the 4 forbidden melds after that can only be made with secondary stat gear (Skill Speed, Parry, etc.)

I guess it all depends how much % wise its going to be vit based because "and as a result the effect of strength on physical attack potency will be reduced" still implies that str will be a part of the calculation.

So what like 2/3 Vit and 1/3 Str? In very basic terms that would mean you would have to have at least 1/3 of your str stat on top of your Vit to be doing the same amount of damage you were pre 3.2, I think... I hate math... Actually I think it more so depends on what your STR stat was before going all Vit, honestly IDK.

I hope someone who actually cares starts preparing some actual statistics on dmg now vs damage after patch without changing any stats for a rough -/+%. I would myself but I'm just lazy and am not on my war as much as drg.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

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"From Patch 3.2 onwards, you’ll be safe using only vitality accessories as well as allocating everything to vitality as a tank. For everyone who is currently using strength accessories on their tanks, the damage will be lowered, so please prepare your vitality accessories ahead of time.""

The wording of that comment implies that with the changes being made you will not be using STR gear. Remember that Tank gear all offers more vitality than the gear of other classes. So even if the scaling per point on VIT is lower than STR, you get so much more VIT from VIT accessories vs STR from STR accessories that it will either even out or come out on top.

I wasn't trying to say STR is still worth it, I was trying to think in terms of how much %vit vs %str a person would need to remain at the same damage they are already doing with their current STR setups. I figured SE would do something along the lines of 2/3 vit and 1/3 str for the calculation at the lowest, I would prefer 4/5 Vit or higher. STR is not being removed completely only Reduced, hopefully to an extreme. Of course your going to do more damage using only vit accessories with a higher % vit in calculation.

so if the tank dps is vit based wars would win in tank stance defiance with full str accessorys.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

so if the tank dps is vit based wars would win in tank stance defiance with full str accessorys.

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Defiance doesn't increase your Vitality stat, it just increases your current HP off a base %.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

so if the tank dps is vit based wars would win in tank stance defiance with full str accessorys.

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Defiance increases your hp, not your vit. I know the two are linked, just not in this scenario

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Originally Posted by HorseBoots

Part of the changes in 3.2 makes it so you can not forbidden meld primary stat gear.

So say you have a ring with 1 materia slot, you can put a primary stat materia in that slot and the 4 forbidden melds after that can only be made with secondary stat gear (Skill Speed, Parry, etc.)

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People would likely just do the Main-stat in the first 2 (it'll probably be 2) slots, then ACC/DET in the others.

Doesn't dissuade them from double dipping, especially with Tier V's available now (2 slots = +30 STR... current accessories are reaching 49, so the difference isn't that drastic.)

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

People would likely just do the Main-stat in the first 2 (it'll probably be 2) slots, then ACC/DET in the others.

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No, it's one. They've stated there won't be any 'forbidden melds' which means anything beyond the default single slot is out of the question for primary stat materia. This also means you won't be able to meld strength if you melded critical hit, for example, in the first slot.

Honestly, it's kind of nice that tanks can finally wear tank gear proudly. It was immensely silly how so many were slapping on strength accessories in an attempt to supplement their poor damage.

As a healer, I'm not happy about this in the way that others will be because I did not have trouble healing STR tanks whatsoever.

As a tank, I'm not sure what to feel about this, but the majority of tanks carry both sets anyway/

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No, it's one. They've stated there won't be any 'forbidden melds' which means anything beyond the default single slot is out of the question for primary stat materia. This also means you won't be able to meld strength if you melded critical hit, for example, in the first slot.

Honestly, it's kind of nice that tanks can finally wear tank gear proudly. It was immensely silly how so many were slapping on strength accessories in an attempt to supplement their poor damage.

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Some gear has two slots.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

People would likely just do the Main-stat in the first 2 (it'll probably be 2) slots, then ACC/DET in the others.

Doesn't dissuade them from double dipping, especially with Tier V's available now (2 slots = +30 STR... current accessories are reaching 49, so the difference isn't that drastic.)

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I guess we will have to wait and see the gear when it happens. I would be shocked to see any accessory with more than one base materia slot on it given that as far as I know they have literally never done it before. Not to mention giving two slots to crafted accessories would defeat the purpose of the gear changes being made. The changes on VIT scaling and materia melding on raid gear are both in place to take away from the perceived need to spend a quadillion gil on crafted accessories and materia to "be a good tank." (I also looked through the xivdb, not a single accessory has double materia slots in heavensward.)

Which is another thing to note, raid gear will now have materia slots but I believe it was mentioned in the last live letter that you are forbidden (hah) to forbidden meld it.

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Originally Posted by HorseBoots

I guess we will have to wait and see the gear when it happens. I would be shocked to see any accessory with more than one base materia slot on it given that as far as I know they have literally never done it before. Not to mention giving two slots to crafted accessories would defeat the purpose of the gear changes being made. The changes on VIT scaling and materia melding on raid gear are both in place to take away from the perceived need to spend a quadillion gil on crafted accessories and materia to "be a good tank." (I also looked through the xivdb, not a single accessory has double materia slots in heavensward.)

Which is another thing to note, raid gear will now have materia slots but I believe it was mentioned in the last live letter that you are forbidden (hah) to forbidden meld it.

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I -might- be mixing it up, due to left-side pieces having two slots, to be fair.

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

As a healer I'm pretty meh about it. I liked the current tank meta with str tanks and vit tanks. It made healing more exciting for me. In dungeons I would push myself to see how much DPS I could churn out before needing to turn off cleric stance and heal. Now dungeons are going to be even more of a bore.

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I love how I'm the odd one that doesn't get bored very easily.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I -might- be mixing it up, due to left-side pieces having two slots, to be fair.

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I don't blame you, it's why I took the time to filter all accessories out just to confirm.

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Originally Posted by HorseBoots

I don't blame you, it's why I took the time to filter all accessories out just to confirm.

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Mm. Even still, let's say that the increase* of VIT and the reduction* of STR makes it so that they are equivelent - basically, that having VIT is the same as having STR.

The idea of Pentamelding accessories would likely be enforced at this point, using VIT as the base (max stat) with a Grade V materia. Let's look at a current one we have:

an i150 Fending Ring is +26.
An i210 Fending ring is ++49

So, slotting that i150 (if it allowed it) with a Grade V would be 26 + 15 = 41. You'd be a little short, but that's due to the nature of the difference in ilevel.

Let's pretend there's a crafted i190 ring for tanks. It would have +40 VIT.

Slotting a V into that kinda ring would = 40 VIT / 15 STR. a total stat of 55. You'd be in a pretty good position to be stronger than most end-game pieces like that, while suffering minimum losses on VIT.


Edit: Clarification. I typed Reduction of Vit/Increase of STR but meant to type Increase of VIT/Reduction of STR xD

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I -might- be mixing it up, due to left-side pieces having two slots, to be fair.

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You are, yes. No accessories have ever had two slots. The only gear with two slots is left-side stuff. And even though left-side gear has two slots already, it's already capped on Primary Stats, so there isn't going to be any benefit to melding STR on them for tanks.

Tanks might get some benefit out of melding a single Grade V Strength Materia on crafted accessories, but it honestly depends on how great the level difference between crafted gear and raid gear is (we don't really know what it'll be like at this point), and also how much value STR actually contributes (I'm skeptical of any AP conversion for STR that's higher than 40% and suspect 30% is more likely right now, but we won't know for another month).

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Originally Posted by Alahra

You are, yes. No accessories have ever had two slots. The only gear with two slots is left-side stuff. And even though left-side gear has two slots already, it's already capped on Primary Stats, so there isn't going to be any benefit to melding STR on them for tanks.

Tanks might get some benefit out of melding a single Grade V Strength Materia on crafted accessories, but it honestly depends on how great the level difference between crafted gear and raid gear is (we don't really know what it'll be like at this point), and also how much value STR actually contributes.

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I'm 'nuff of a man to admit when I'm wrong on that front, appreciate the clarification c:

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Originally Posted by ReddAxel

This means healers have no excuse to not dps now that tanks will have all this extra HP to spare. No excuses whatsoever.

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This means I'm going to have to heal the tank more in order to cap them because their HP pool has increased but my heals don't scale with it. :B

for me im so happy to get mi hp pool back, iron health ^^

Only problem I have with this is that the time and gil I spent into making the pentamelds will be officially wasted... Since 3.2 is releasing meldable jewelry again though, I guess it doesn't matter unless you wanna make some +determination/crit jewelry or are having trouble with accuracy. I can't see why anyone would want to blow that much money on just those though. Actually it depends what the 3.2 jewelry will have on them already.

In before STR materia price drop. I can't think of any other reason it would be used anymore.

I'm fully expecting bosses to do a *lot* more damage than they are now.

Right now, my base HP in full VIT is 21,515. Defiance gives me 26,893. Full i210, no party buff or food.

This much HP basically allows you to ignore all the tank-busters in Gordias Savage right now, or you use one cool-down (note: Thrill of Battle gives me over 32K HP. Hypercompressed Plasma is around a 25K-27K hit on a WAR. Yeah. Heck, even just a Stoneskin or Adlo with this HP is enough to survive...)


This will also make healing tougher and more important. Heal potency isn't going to change a lot, but with more damage going out on tanks...less time for heal DPS. At the very least, solo-healing should be a real challenge until things are on farm.

I don't think it'll be harder to heal, at least in a dungeon setting.

Now here's hoping they don't goof, and this change is truly just for tanks.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

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I could get that if it wasn't for the quote given over the changes.

"We will be changing the method for calculating the potency of physical attacks for tank roles in Patch 3.2. We’ll be making it so vitality affects the potency of physical attacks, and as a result the effect of strength on physical attack potency will be reduced."

We'll have to extensively test the scaling when 3.2 hits. I'm sticking to my guns that melded crafted accessories will still not be able to hold a candle to melded Midias accessories.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I'm fully expecting bosses to do a *lot* more damage than they are now.

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Part of me isn't sure we'll see a significant increase in boss damage. I have to assume that they tuned Gordias Savage with a baseline of Fending accessories for tanks, which suggests at least a bit that they expected/wanted tanks to have bigger HP pools relative to the tank buster damage in the first place.

I do still lean toward the idea that we'll see damage increase somewhat, but I can also reasonably see why the damage may not change, proportionately.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

Part of me isn't sure we'll see a significant increase in boss damage. I have to assume that they tuned Gordias Savage with a baseline of Fending accessories for tanks, which suggests at least a bit that they expected/wanted tanks to have bigger HP pools relative to the tank buster damage in the first place.

I do still lean toward the idea that we'll see damage increase somewhat, but I can also reasonably see why the damage may not change, proportionately.

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IDK. With the DPS checks they had, I'm sure they were at least expecting melded accessories, or a mix of STR and VIT (rather than the 1 melded/4 STR or full STR we use now). The tank busters were also just *easy* to mitigate in DPS stance (except for a couple in A4S, and once you got past 2 stacks in A3S. I mean, you have Vengeance and Thrill up for every Plasma in A1S; too easy), and when I'm topped off in defiance for the missiles in A4S I don't *need* to use cooldowns at all (they do about 13-15K unmitigated. Yes, I still try to have something up because healers are always busy in that fight, and my WHM has no problems with letting me die to stupid)

Sure someone mentioned it already, but the tank-busters in Coil were real tank busters. You had to have full VIT, use cooldowns, and have Stoneskin and Adlo to survive some of them while progressing. That's the kind of thing we need again.

Why do people say strength tanks are squishy? Vit tanks can be just as squishy. Maybe even more.