Removing Ranks for newer gear.

I think the new PvP gear is all really unappealing so personally I don't really care about people getting it easily on that level.

However.

I know what it's like to have spent months and months and months queuing and queuing for PvP games that, while enjoyable, were nowhere near being worth the queue times in terms of getting a return for the time wasted while waiting for a match... and finally getting an exclusive set that you really invested a lot of time into achieving, only to have SE unexpectedly and arbitrarily remove the rank restrictions and throw all of that time and effort spent right back into my face.
So I'm sorry, but personally I don't support this idea either. Should there be anyone out there who also decided to work up from the ground just to get any of these new sets for nothing more than glamour purposes, I am in no rush to see their efforts also refuted for the sake of people who were unwilling to invest the time whatsoever.

Given the queue times, these high rank restrictions should arguably have never existed in the first place however. I'll give you that.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Except, if I didn't PvP at all I wouldn't have ANY of the gear in the first place. Thus your subject matter fails completely.

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If I didn't grind out items for a relic, I wouldn't have a relic.
If I didn't run Alex Savage I wouldn't have the i210 gear I have now.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...dac680a826.gif

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Except, if I didn't PvP at all I wouldn't have ANY of the gear in the first place. Thus your subject matter fails completely.

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Bolding and increasing the font size doesn't make your point valid at all. At this point I am just repeating myself, so I'm going to say this in a way I hope you understand.

Anyone can earn Wolf Marks, you just have to be present in a Wolves' Den or Frontlines match, but by doing the content again and again you gain experience. Not just EXP experience, but playstyle experience. If you have not earned enough of that playstyle experience, then you do not deserve the rewards given to the end game players of said content. This applies to both PvP and PvE.

With that, I am done with this thread, good luck with whatever you do. You'll need it.

Well looks like OP got his wish granted coming this 3.2 patch. A shame, I was sure they'd remove rank requirements next expansion like they did.

I guess all people need to do is just wait ~ 2 patch cycles for them to remove the requirement.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Well looks like OP got his wish granted coming this 3.2 patch. A shame, I was sure they'd remove rank requirements next expansion like they did.

I guess all people need to do is just wait ~ 2 patch cycles for them to remove the requirement.

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They're also adding new gear with the new patch. They said they're removing ranks restriction for the 180 gear, but they didn't say anything about the 205 gear that they are adding. That leads me to assume that the newest gear is going to also be rank locked ... meaning the OP will have something new to bitch about and we'll see another thread just like this in a couple of weeks.

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Originally Posted by Februs

They're also adding new gear with the new patch. They said they're removing ranks restriction for the 180 gear, but they didn't say anything about the 205 gear that they are adding. That leads me to assume that the newest gear is going to also be rank locked ... meaning the OP will have something new to bitch about and we'll see another thread just like this in a couple of weeks.

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Just wait a few months and the new gear's rank will be unlocked for all.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Just wait a few months and the new gear's rank will be unlocked for all.

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They do this with PVE gear as well, whats the difference? Old gear is always unlocked when new stuff is out. Don't see the community complaining about how ilvl 210 will be faceroll easy to achieve this update in PVE.

Rank requirements never should have been removed, from all PvP gears. It's fine to reduce the price but removing the rank requirements make them lose their uniqueness.

Seeing some PvP newbies who have done around 10 PvP matches wearing the same thing I spent months to earn is disappointing me.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Rank requirements never should have been removed, from all PvP gears. It's fine to reduce the price but removing the rank requirements make them lose their uniqueness.

Seeing some PvP newbies who have done around 10 PvP matches wearing the same thing I spent months to earn is disappointing me.

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It's disappointing all of us who spent the time actually wanting to achieve something pvp wise.

Seal rock lasts for 20mins per game.
Leveling to 50 takes about 200-300 Frontline games.

To add to that, if you belong to the underdog GC, you'll take more games to reach max.

Just do the math.
Whatever they're smoking, I want some.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

They do this with PVE gear as well, whats the difference?

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Do they?

PvP Rank is effectively your PvP level. Case and point, the higher your PvP Rank, the more AP you have, the stronger your PvP actions are. The higher your PvP Rank, the stronger you become in PvP.

When have they ever gone "You know what? This awesome piece of Lv50 gear should be available to brand new players too!"?

Someone who is Rank 2 in PvP should not be wearing Rank 50 PvP gear, in the same way someone who is Lv2 should not be wearing High Allagan stuff... Was bad enough when some tank body gear dropped in Diadem, and I tried it on only to see it was Armor of the Behemoth King... I know random models was the whole point of Diadem, but come on! Why do we even need to remove the Rank requirement with that in mind? This shit has already lost its uniqueness thanks to Diadem. PvP gear in general is just a massive mess at this point, no idea what they're doing with it or why they felt the need to add more to it... I can only imagine they've done this just to cave in to demands for newbs to have the Lv60 sets, so they had to add new Lv60 sets for the Rank 50s, apparently ignoring the fact that those same newbs are now going to complain about these sets being gated behind Rank 50 (or are they adding new Ranks?). They're just making matters worse, this is an all or nothing scenario, either you're Rank 50 and get the sets, or you're not and you complain... At least when everything had a Rank requirement, there was some semblance of progression; You got this set at Rank 30, this set at Rank 40, and so on. Now they just add new sets for people to complain about being gated behind Rank 50, or worse add new Ranks for people to complain about being too much of a grind (when it really isn't).

When PvP gear actually did something, this was a valid concern, but PvP gear doesn't do anything anymore... It's vanity gear, and you're just cheapening its value by removing any effort in its acquisition. Nobody wins in this scenario... The short sighted idiots who complained about this might think they're getting something, but they're just going to move on to complaining about the new set soon enough... Whatever though, Diamond Rank gear is going to be a thing... Hopefully you don't screw that over...

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Originally Posted by Februs

They're also adding new gear with the new patch. They said they're removing ranks restriction for the 180 gear, but they didn't say anything about the 205 gear that they are adding. That leads me to assume that the newest gear is going to also be rank locked ... meaning the OP will have something new to bitch about and we'll see another thread just like this in a couple of weeks.

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I don't think this is the case. If you go back and look at the 3.05 notes when they added the 180 gear its implicitly stated there "Cannot equip if PvP rank is below 50." The 3.2 notes make no mention of a rank requirement (Im guessing the new gear is tied into the feast somehow.)

I could be wrong but sounds to me like rank is going to be nothing more than extra action points

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Originally Posted by Enlial

I don't think this is the case. If you go back and look at the 3.05 notes when they added the 180 gear its implicitly stated there "Cannot equip if PvP rank is below 50." The 3.2 notes make no mention of a rank requirement (Im guessing the new gear is tied into the feast somehow.)I could be wrong but sounds to me like rank is going to be nothing more than extra action points

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It depends on the gear.

They haven't clarified how much new PvP gear will be available with the patch. We don't know if each individual job is getting their own set, or if they're dividing it by job type like they did with the last set (Ie: Tank set, Healer set, etc). One thing that we do know is that they specified a new PvP set at lvl 205, and that some of the gear will be locked behind your seasonal ranking. SE stated that the Diamond League, in particular, will have it's own gear rewards. If the seasonal ranking (Feast) gear is the only gear being released, then no one will be getting it besides the very best and most die-hard PvP'ers. In that regard, the new gear will be even more exclusive than it is now.

SE could also be releasing additional gear sets that are not tied to your seasonal rank, but we don't know this just yet. We also don't know if those hypothetical sets will be tied to rank or not. They haven't said one way or another. The only thing that they have said, is that the diamond league will have it's own set, and I'm sure a lot of people are going to think they're entitled to it regardless of how much work they put into actually getting it.

I don't know if I should be happy or sad.
I'm glad they will remove the rank limit because I have owned them for ages without being able to use them for glamours because I still lack the rank.
I'm a bit sad, because they were the sole reason for me to level pvp at all and I was kinda getting there, it was a nice little long-term goal and now it's just instant gratification.

In the end, more happy I guess. Since I HAVE worked for it for several months now, so it still feels like something I "deserve" now and less like a free handout.

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Originally Posted by whythehate

Please stay away from pvp.

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This. So much this.

This is a bad thing for everyone who sweated to get rank 50

Greetings,

We understand that removing the PvP rank requirement on gear may dishearten those who worked on attaining those ranks to wear that gear specifically; however, considering that we're looking to get as many players excited about the upcoming release of The Feast, we decided to remove the rank requirement at this time. Hopefully this adjustment will further encourage new users to tackle PvP-related content ahead of Patch 3.21 in preparation of The Feast and also help to foster the PvP community.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

We understand that removing the PvP rank requirement on gear may dishearten those who worked on attaining those ranks to wear that gear specifically; however, considering that we're looking to get as many players excited about the upcoming release of The Feast, we decided to remove the rank requirement at this time. Hopefully this adjustment will further encourage new users to tackle PvP-related content ahead of Patch 3.21 in preparation of The Feast and also help to foster the PvP community.

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This I agree and like.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

We understand that removing the PvP rank requirement on gear may dishearten those who worked on attaining those ranks to wear that gear specifically; however, considering that we're looking to get as many players excited about the upcoming release of The Feast, we decided to remove the rank requirement at this time. Hopefully this adjustment will further encourage new users to tackle PvP-related content ahead of Patch 3.21 in preparation of The Feast and also help to foster the PvP community.

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Could you guys please consider removing the GC requirement in all pvp. There is still a large part of the population that are under level 60 and would like to enjoy pvp. But the long queue times are just so discouraging.

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Originally Posted by AzraelX

Could you guys please consider removing the GC requirement in all pvp. There is still a large part of the population that <<snipped>> would like to enjoy pvp. But the long queue times are just so discouraging.

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Fixed that for you!

Signed, Mr Level 60 who can't get a fame due to GC restrictions.

;P

*game. >.<

While you're at it, remove the "no editing in mobile mode" on the forums too please. -_-

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

We understand that removing the PvP rank requirement on gear may dishearten those who worked on attaining those ranks to wear that gear specifically; however, considering that we're looking to get as many players excited about the upcoming release of The Feast, we decided to remove the rank requirement at this time. Hopefully this adjustment will further encourage new users to tackle PvP-related content ahead of Patch 3.21 in preparation of The Feast and also help to foster the PvP community.

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I'm pretty sure most of us understood that this was intended to lure as many new players into PvP as possible, and I think we can all agree that it's a good enough reason for any change. That said, the concern that a lot of us have over this change is that there won't be a strong enough incentive to continue playing PvP. Getting people in the door is fine and dandy, but if you don't offer them a reason to stay then they won't. At the moment, hardcore PvP'ers have huge incentives to stick around because of league rankings, diamond league rewards, and a promising future for competitive tournaments, community organized events, etc. Casual players, on the other hand, have no real reason to keep queuing besides tome bonuses.

This change is not necessarily bad and is being implemented for a very good reason, but, by itself, it is not enough for a sustainable PvP community, especially because the change is purely cosmetic. The Morale stat is useless, and PvE gear easily competes with PvP gear. So, this change is really just window dressing. If Morale actually applied to PvP, then this change would have made more sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

We understand that removing the PvP rank requirement on gear may dishearten those who worked on attaining those ranks to wear that gear specifically; however, considering that we're looking to get as many players excited about the upcoming release of The Feast, we decided to remove the rank requirement at this time. Hopefully this adjustment will further encourage new users to tackle PvP-related content ahead of Patch 3.21 in preparation of The Feast and also help to foster the PvP community.

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then put 4vs4 not synchronized? I totally sure pvp players demanding the release of moral

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Originally Posted by Destyno

then put 4vs4 not synchronized?

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Or just re-implement Morale. No one can complain about PvP'ers having an unfair Morale advantage if we all have access to the same gear from the word go.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Or just re-implement Morale. No one can complain about PvP'ers having an unfair Morale advantage if we all have access to the same gear from the word go.

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It is not unfair because nobody will offer him rank 50

You know, I wish people played pvp because it was fun. However if all you people say ranks are the only reason you played (aka: to show off and have an advantage over other players in some way.) then why are you pvping?

So now instead of people in the Alliance announcing "Here for the tomes, dont care if we win" it'll be "Glamour and Tomes dont care if we win"

You people.. "Boohoo i did a couple of hundred of Frontlines to get be able to use my glamour and others don't have to now"

Yeah so what, lots of people are annoyed by the fact they have to do hundreds of matches before they can even get to use a piece of glamour they want so, although they would like to get the glamour , and thus possibly get into pvp they say the hell away.

Nearly 2 years back i did way over a thousand matches , the vast majority of which solo queued, of Wolves Den and suffered through horrible queues at times (dem horrible tank queues) just to get to the mid 30s rank , when they introduced Frontlines people were able to do it in less than half the time through much easier means, i didn't give a shit about elitism of "But wahh they didn't go through what i did" at the time because it brought more people in, and the difference was much bigger because people with pvp gear were gods compared to ungeared plebs (lol), and neither should you if you really care about pvp.

Asking for morale to be introduced as even the slightest suggestion is completely atrocious, it's gone and it should never come back. (Unless it's something extremely mild, as say morale works but ilvl sync is 220 so it still wouldn't matter anywhere close to being significant)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

You know, I wish people played pvp because it was fun. However if all you people say ranks are the only reason you played (aka: to show off and have an advantage over other players in some way.) then why are you pvping?

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Players are playing for fun. But for fun players will not play extra hours per day - for that players need extra effort and for the extra effort they need extra reward. Reward and achieving your goals is much more fun then just playing for the sake of playing...

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Originally Posted by Pibz

You people.. "Boohoo i did a couple of hundred of Frontlines to get be able to use my glamour and others don't have to now"

Yeah so what, lots of people are annoyed by the fact they have to do hundreds of matches before they can even get to use a piece of glamour they want so, although they would like to get the glamour , and thus possibly get into pvp they say the hell away.

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There always gonna be unhappy players. No matter what SE do with the game, there always will be unhappy players. What SE ultimately struggles to do is to make the number of unhappy players as least as possible.
Back to your quot: players who are not planning to pvp a lot should be the least priority (altho, they shouldn't be ignored definitely).

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings

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Let me get this straight...

In order to make the Feast more appealing, you've removed the Rank restriction so people new to PvP can get the gear?

Are we just not aware that PvP gear effectively does nothing in PvP? It's a glamour trophy and nothing more. You know what has a much bigger impact on PvP? PvP Skills. I have stronger, more frequent PvP Skills than someone who is new to PvP. That's a very real advantage, and anyone new to PvP is going to look at that and feel discouraged; When they're fighting someone and their enemy has a stronger Recouperate, and gets to use it more often, they're going to be put off by that...

PvP gear doesn't have this effect at all. It was a Glamour trophy that said "Look at me, I PvP a lot!"... If you were going to remove anything, it should have been AP and left Rank 50 specific Glamours in place... AP will have an impact on fights, Glamours will not... All you've done here is leave the unbalanced aspect in place, and turned the gear from a real trophy into a participation award... Not that it was ever much else, but I'd rather have a participation trophy that requires you to actually stick to the game... Whatever though, the Diamond Rank gear is coming and that's a much better concept... Until you cave in to idiotic complainers once more and hand it out to everyone... Ugh...

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Originally Posted by Februs

That said, the concern that a lot of us have over this change is that there won't be a strong enough incentive to continue playing PvP.

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There's a Gloria airship mount for 200 Feast victories, a bunch of different titles per role, and the 205 gear does take quite a lot of matches to farm full sets. I think the real deterrent to playing will be long queue times caused by fixed party composition requirements. I think most people prefer the casual free-for-all frontline modes with equal queue times for all roles and large-scale fights. I think Seal Rock and Seize mode is the most success this game has had with PvP and I'd prefer them just making lots more frontlines seize maps with different gimmicks.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

If you were going to remove anything, it should have been AP and left Rank 50 specific Glamours in place... AP will have an impact on fights, Glamours will not...

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The popoto makes a good point, removing the rank on the glamour gear instead of the actually useful PvP action points really makes me think the devs don't think these things through.

Ahh, kinda like all that work you did for relic only to get stomped on because newer, better weapons were released in 3.2 *sigh*.

Well one reason people don't move to another GC is because PvP gear was ranked locked. When you grind for months trying to get armor, you don't want to move and reset all the hard work. This, with hope, might encourage people to move to other GC and even things out. I know, I know, GC restriction sucks but I"m not the developer, only trying to find the bright side of things.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

There's a Gloria airship mount for 200 Feast victories, a bunch of different titles per role, and the 205 gear does take quite a lot of matches to farm full sets. I think the real deterrent to playing will be long queue times caused by fixed party composition requirements. I think most people prefer the casual free-for-all frontline modes with equal queue times for all roles and large-scale fights. I think Seal Rock and Seize mode is the most success this game has had with PvP and I'd prefer them just making lots more frontlines seize maps with different gimmicks.

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The Gloria Airship mount is probably the only good thing I've seen that would encourage players to keep playing.Titles and such have been around since forever. They're nice, but they're not quite as tangible as stuff you can actually use (even if just for glamour). Both of these things are very long term goals, though. Most people attained Rank 50 long before they got their ADS mount from Frontlines (assuming they didn't frequently swap GC's). in the hierarchy of incentives, Rank typically came first because it was faster to achieve. Each level served as a mile marker and gave a sense of progression. Now, casual players will have to go for a very long stretch before they see any returns on their efforts.

In any case, I don't think FL was the solution to PvP. Maintaining the status quo is not a fix, and GC restrictions were a constant hindrance that were quite possibly worse than any party restrictions could be. I am a little concerned that job restrictions will hurt queue times in Feast (especially in 4 mans), but I'm hoping that Feast will overcome this problem. The fact that it is objective based (instead of a free-for-all), and each job has a roll to play might be enough to get people into it. It doesn't look like it is going to be nearly as repetitive as WD, so it should have more lasting appeal.

youll see no tanks in feast if it weren't for the strict party requirements. Feast would just devolve into dps + healer comps like it did in wow.

I understand that Feast is the focus in 3.2, but too much emphasis on Feast might actually hurt pvp growth as a whole. Building up frontlines as a core pvp attraction would be a better way to grow pvp interest. Feast, even with great rewards, is going to appeal mostly to a smaller group of more serious pvpers.

Sorry to be a downer, but I don't think feast will build mass pvp interest.

The casuals attracted to frontlines will invariably play feast to break up the monotony. But focusing on feast and letting frontlines wither on the vine is a bad idea. I think casuals will play Feast initially cuz it's new, then find out they'd rather frontlines, but no support for frontlines, so they'd end up just quitting. Had frontlines been continually supported, those players will continue to play feast on the side as a secondary pvp activity.

Moreover, if LoL was the inspiration for Feast and this esports initiative, then I would suggest SE see learn and implement how Riot builds each classes kit to facilitate fun gameplay. This is especially true for tanks/bruisers. Tanks gameplay is boring... Even more so after the dps nerf. Unless they add shorter cooldown tank abilities like taunt, pulls/peels, shields or the like, I don't see myself playing feast as a tank just to medals bank. No amount of rewards will make up for boring gameplay.

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

I understand that Feast is the focus in 3.2, but too much emphasis on Feast might actually hurt pvp growth as a whole. Building up frontlines as a core pvp attraction would be a better way to grow pvp interest.

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They tried this. Keep in mind that Frontlines saw three additions to the game mode (Secure, Slaughter, and Seize), before Wolves Den got Feast.Granted, SE shot themselves in the foot with the stupid GC restrictions, but in the end the mass PvP format did not work as a "core attraction." As for Wolves Den, the main problem was not job restrictions. Having pre-established parties gummed up queues a little, but not nearly as much as the monotony of the game mode. The real problem with WD was that it was just too simple. It was the same thing, over and over, and people got bored really quickly. Serious PvP'ers extended it's life a little by trying out varieties of tactics and forming pre-made parties, but the casual community just didn't get into it. By comparison, Feast will be a nice change of pace, and it's definitely better than those 72-man cluster F*cks.

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Moreover, if LoL was the inspiration for Feast and this esports initiative, then I would suggest SE see learn and implement how Riot builds each classes kit to facilitate fun gameplay. This is especially true for tanks/bruisers. Tanks gameplay is boring... Even more so after the dps nerf.

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You're gonna have to speak for yourself here. I almost exclusively queue as Tank for PvP because I find the roll much more enjoyable, and I find it fun exactly because it has less to do with Dps. No insult intended, but you are clearly coming out of the new wave of tanks (war's specifically) who thought that they were just a beefy Dps job. This could not have been further from the truth. Tanks are supposed to run as support in PvP. Party protection, bait and snares, healer defense, and objective secures are the roll of the tank. Learning how to use your kit for support purposes, rather than Dps buffs, was how a Tank optimized their role in the original PvP game modes. SE's colossal blunder with War Dps in 3.0 created a new generation of tanks who were all about Dps, but that's not what their job was supposed to be.

Nerfing Tank dps is a return to having established rolls in a PvP environment. Jobs are now distinct, as they should have always been. You don't expect a sniper to roll around like assault, do you? No. That's not their job. The same thing applies here. Having distinct jobs plays into both party composition as well as team tactics, and that could not be more appropriate for E-sports.

You seem to have missed the part where I asked for more utility. I know why they did what they did. I'm asking for more interesting gameplay in terms of fun tank mechanics like peels, shields, etc because that's what makes tanks fun inLol. Don't assume shit about me before you read carefully what I write?