any chance of Sky/Sea type areas?

this would b cool, keep in mind alot of end game stuff in 11 came out on expansions, so we could only hope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I'm not sure if people here are nostalgic about the visuals and design of Sky and Sea, or if people actually LIKED grinding the f out of those areas, having spawns stolen, MPKing, dealing with RMT, and having to do the same content for 4 years because it still offered some of the best-in-slot rewards.

I never want to go back to a game where I have to deal with s***ty content that I have to repeat for almost half a decade, but I would definitely like to see some well stylized, themed end game areas.

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We didn't get MPK'd or have spawns stolen, as:

1) We were moderately well skilled and not morons
2) We had a very good relationship with most of the endgame shells on the realm
3) We didn't resort to name calling at every HNM/Sky/Sea event when something didn't go our way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

We didn't get MPK'd or have spawns stolen, as:

1) We were moderately well skilled and not morons
2) We had a very good relationship with most of the endgame shells on the realm
3) We didn't resort to name calling at every HNM/Sky/Sea event when something didn't go our way

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Good for you, you didn't get to experience the bad side of FFXI players. Others did and it should not have happened at all.

The only problem I ever had with Abyssea is that players only wanted to seal hunt and do nothing else. THAT is boring. There were other things we could do but everyone wanted to seal hunt. Other than that, it was fun and relevant and got A LOT of players back into the game.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Good for you, you didn't get to experience the bad side of FFXI players. Others did and it should not have happened at all.

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You cannot blame the game for players.

You want the world in a blanket, and you can't have it. If all this stuff was possible, we would have solved world peace years ago.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

You cannot blame the game for players.

You want the world in a blanket, and you can't have it. If all this stuff was possible, we would have solved world peace years ago.

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Yeah, actually, I can blame the game because it gives the option to players to be a-holes in settings that are not supposed to be directly competitive like PVP. Other MMOs have done away with people being d***s to each other in PVE (which is, by definition, supposed to be non-competitive) by instancing things.

Hell, even FFXI did away with it in certain parts.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

im wasnt saying i want sky from ffxi in ffxiv

i was trying to get across that the zones themselves are interesting, (who didnt go "wow" when they first entered sky?)

and the idea of it being like a theme park where there are tons of things to do is also very exciting.

there doesnt have to be timed spawns, maybe all the nms can be poped with items to counterfiet competition...?

if they make the area large enough with enough content there should be enough room for a few linkshells..

one of the best things about sky was you could spend a couple hours there and maybe kill one or two nms or the entire ls could join up for an all nighter (half of it spent killing kirin) at the weekend.

imo it is a sound format for endgame.

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If anything the dev team seem to moving towards dungeon and instanced content which personally I prefer, of course this doesn't mean we still can't have these cool area's they will just have dungeon entrances around the map similar to Toto-rak and Dzemael Darkhold.

We may see the odd 1 or 2 HNM's but I can't see them being added as content very often.

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Originally Posted by Bearforce

because SE stated that this game will gonna compete other mmo,s why not implement the good idea,s?



oh yeah? is it the BEST prior abyssea? are you that poor to not buy the new expansion and pay for subs? again, Stop living in the past

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You've got some problems Bearforce... calm down; seriously. And yes FF11 was an amazing game. It had many aspects of the game that made it incredibly fun despite abyssea. What your doing is focusing on 1 negative which apparently out weighs all the positive in your book. Tisk tisk tisk

And yes there are a few great things about WoW, Aion, FF11, Monster Hunter, Many other MMO that should be implemented in FF14. Why not? It will only make it better~

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

You cannot blame the game for players.

You want the world in a blanket, and you can't have it. If all this stuff was possible, we would have solved world peace years ago.

---

(True Strike)

For all it's faults, FFXI had one of the best communities out there.

To the naggers: if you knew of a single MMO that is grind-free, has no RMT, has ideal players who never argue, has flawless class balance and endless endgame content,with a perfect economy, etc, etc.. You wouldn't be here whining. You'd be playing it.

back OT:

Sky was very cool in FFXI (If anyone has seen Laputa, you'll know where the idea came from). FFXIV needs something along the same lines but with a different flavor.

FFXIV could build on some traditional FF themes for it's endgame areas:

• Underworld (FFIV)
• Moon (FFIV)
• Magitek Factory (FFIV)
• Past/Future Time Zone (FFI, FFVIII)
• Crystal World (FFIX)

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Originally Posted by Bearforce

any chance not making threads about copying ffxi stupid idea's into ffxiv?

you obviously didnt play abyssea, so stop living in the past.

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and you are obviously 12 years old thinking everyone thinks and likes what you do.

Asea was cool i liked it so does everyone playing it right now as ff11 is still very alive and well.

Anyhow he did not even metion Asea so why troll?

I love this idea Sky was awesome.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yeah, actually, I can blame the game because it gives the option to players to be a-holes in settings that are not supposed to be directly competitive like PVP. Other MMOs have done away with people being d***s to each other in PVE (which is, by definition, supposed to be non-competitive) by instancing things.

Hell, even FFXI did away with it in certain parts.

---

We should have instanced servers to so that way I don't have to deal with the stress of big jerks possibly walking in my path which is a form of competition, which as we all know makes for super unfun gameplay!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yeah, actually, I can blame the game because it gives the option to players to be a-holes in settings that are not supposed to be directly competitive like PVP. Other MMOs have done away with people being d***s to each other in PVE (which is, by definition, supposed to be non-competitive) by instancing things.

Hell, even FFXI did away with it in certain parts.

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What a boring world you seem to want to play in. You want to play in a massively multiplayer environment, but be alone with your friends in the middle of high profile areas when it suits you?

It's people like you that make me want to strangle the people I deal with daily.

The reason that FF XIV is a failure now is because they listened to your stupid ideas copied FF XI
so stop telling them to copy FF XI
Realise it already you idiots !

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Yeah, let's go non-competitive "gaming"! I sure do love when the game strokes me and tells me I won without any challenges in my way. Oh wait, that'd technically make it lose its status as a game by definiton...Oh well! Yay instanced everthing raiding and everypatch forever being more loot hallways!

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Wow dude, way to be clueless about everything.

Non-competitive means I don't have to play against other players. Directly competitive means I play... directly against other players. PVE can still be competitive if I'm trying for server firsts, but I don't have to deal with people from the "other team" actually coming in on my content and me having to deal with them.

Non-competitive PVE does not necessarily have to be easy. FFXI's Dynamis and Salvage were non-competitive, but they had some good difficulty curves.

And instanced does not imply linear loot hallway. Again, Dynamis and Salvage were instanced, but they were non-linear and you didn't walk away with a ton of items per run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warm

The reason that FF XIV is a failure now is because they listened to your stupid ideas copied FF XI
so stop telling them to copy FF XI
Realise it already you idiots !

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YEAH BRO 4 DA HORDE *shades* xD so randum

U IDIOTS ROFLMAO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

What a boring world you seem to want to play in. You want to play in a massively multiplayer environment, but be alone with your friends in the middle of high profile areas when it suits you?

It's people like you that make me want to strangle the people I deal with daily.

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Yeah, I want to not be bothered by other tools when I play with friends or with pickup groups. I guess that makes me a terrible person in your eyes.

Sky and Sea were very enjoyable. Would be nice to see something akin to that. Oh but wait that would be similar in some way to a game that came before this game. /cry me.a.river.*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

We should have instanced servers to so that way I don't have to deal with the stress of big jerks possibly walking in my path which is a form of competition, which as we all know makes for super unfun gameplay!

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Since you edited it... way to exaggerate what I was asking for. Can you guys not do anything but exaggerate your points when you try to confront me?

My original point is that there shouldn't be a scenario where in PVE I have to deal with PKing other players, stealing mobs from players, dealing with RMT, or having those things done with me. It's not up to the players to police themselves, because if the devs leave it up to the players, the ones who "cheat" (is it really cheating if the devs give you the power and wash their hands clean of the implications?) are the ones who get ahead.

The easy fix to this is to instance end-game. The FFXI devs already realized this halfway through COP and TOAU, because you started seeing a LOT more instanced content. Almost every western MMO dev also realized this, and these are problems they no longer have to deal with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yeah, I want to not be bothered by other tools when I play with friends or with pickup groups. I guess that makes me a terrible person in your eyes.

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No, it makes you a boring person.

Also I can tell you that the biggest MMo in the world today still has just as many issues with douchebags causing players aggravation and them then whining to GM's about it.

When did it become so that you have no spine in MMo's? As we all know, trolls require attention, the same as an actor requires and audience. Deprive them of your tears and you win. It's that simple.

I don't know if I just grew up in a different world or something, but when I was younger, people were a lot more resilient to this, and not a bunch of whiner babies. I really hate this cotton world we live in now.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

No, it makes you a boring person.

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Yeah, whatever. I'm boring for not wanting to deal with tools.

I'm okay with that, because Yoshi is pushing instanced content and I won't have to deal with you (hint hint, I'm implying something about you here).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Also I can tell you that the biggest MMo in the world today still has just as many issues with douchebags causing players aggravation and them then whining to GM's about it.

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And they're fixing it. FFXI hasn't, for the most part, and you are asking for them to purposely put in content that allows players to grief each other.

Quote:

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When did it become so that you have no spine in MMo's? As we all know, trolls require attention, the same as an actor requires and audience. Deprive them of your tears and you win. It's that simple.

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"Trolls" don't need attention from me in this scenario, because they can get me killed and steal the items that I was working for. I don't have to validate their existence at all for them to negatively impact my game.

Quote:

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I don't know if I just grew up in a different world or something, but when I was younger, people were a lot more resilient to this, and not a bunch of whiner babies. I really hate this cotton world we live in now.

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I grew up with FFXI too, and I willingly participated in MPKing RMTs and stealing from other shells. Then I went around and played a bunch of other MMOs and I realized that it's complete bulls*** that you can do that to someone, especially when they're not only investing time and effort into this game, but also money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yeah, whatever. I'm boring for not wanting to deal with tools.

I'm okay with that, because Yoshi is pushing instanced content and I won't have to deal with you (hint hint, I'm implying something about you here).




And they're fixing it. FFXI hasn't, for the most part, and you are asking for them to purposely put in content that allows players to grief each other.



"Trolls" don't need attention from me in this scenario, because they can get me killed and steal the items that I was working for. I don't have to validate their existence at all for them to negatively impact my game.



I grew up with FFXI too, and I willingly participated in MPKing RMTs and stealing from other shells. Then I went around and played a bunch of other MMOs and I realized that it's complete bulls*** that you can do that to someone, especially when they're not only investing time and effort into this game, but also money.

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See, in one post you raged, called people names and showed how aggressive you are. In other words, the very people you seem to want to be instanced away from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

See, in one post you raged, called people names and showed how aggressive you are. In other words, the very people you seem to want to be instanced away from.

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And who would be instanced away from me, so I guess it all works out, right?

And FYI, when you start pulling up ad-hominem attacks (which, "You're a boring person" qualifies as), I no longer have to give you any valid arguments. The argument is done, and now I'm just having fun with it or venting frustration at having to deal with someone who doesn't know jack s*** about arguing or debating.

I'm just guessing. I imagine a Sea like area could be related to some Leviathan content, an underwater temple was mentioned one time by a dev post I believe. A sky type area could be like some of those large floating land mass I saw in one of those new concept art.

Why do people want to play a game that is completely instanced? Games like WoW, where even leveling is done in instances, just makes it so people don't experience the actual in-game world. What is the point for designers to make a beautiful environment when everything worth doing is in instance that people repeat 20 times to get a level?

FFXI was nice because the level grind took place in the actual world where you weren't forced to do the same level 20 dungeon until you were high enough to the level 25 dungeon. When you were leveling it didn't always have to be in the same place and having knowledge of the zone could be a huge benefit because you knew of camps that were out of the way of competition most of the time.

I guess one of my main points is that competition breeds creativity and true knowledge. Being isolated from the majority of the world at every turn makes people soft and unable to adapt themselves to a situation when things don't go as planned. I always saw leveling in FFXI as something that truly readied you for end-game, not because you learned how to cast your spells in a certain order or what WS's made Light skillchains but because you learned how to interact with others around you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warm

The reason that FF XIV is a failure now is because they listened to your stupid ideas copied FF XI
so stop telling them to copy FF XI
Realise it already you idiots !

---

FFXIV failed because it tried to distance itself too far from FFXI, to the point where they refused to use basic features common to every MMO. Had they copied FFXI, most people would have just moved from FFXI to FFXIV and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Also, this game wouldn't even exist without FFXI, so cool it with the FFXI hate, it's seriously getting stale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryans

Why do people want to play a game that is completely instanced? Games like WoW, where even leveling is done in instances, just makes it so people don't experience the actual in-game world. What is the point for designers to make a beautiful environment when everything worth doing is in instance that people repeat 20 times to get a level?

FFXI was nice because the level grind took place in the actual world where you weren't forced to do the same level 20 dungeon until you were high enough to the level 25 dungeon. When you were leveling it didn't always have to be in the same place and having knowledge of the zone could be a huge benefit because you knew of camps that were out of the way of competition most of the time.

I guess one of my main points is that competition breeds creativity and true knowledge. Being isolated from the majority of the world at every turn makes people soft and unable to adapt themselves to a situation when things don't go as planned. I always saw leveling in FFXI as something that truly readied you for end-game, not because you learned how to cast your spells in a certain order or what WS's made Light skillchains but because you learned how to interact with others around you.

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I found the complete opposite to be true about exploration in FFXI and WOW.

In WOW, leveling via questing takes you through multiple zones, and you explore them in full. Leveling via dungeons takes you through pretty much every dungeon, and there is no magical dungeon that lasts you 20 levels; it's 5 at best.

Compare that to FFXI, where there were only a few viable exp camps per level, and level progression almost always looked the same. People found the "best" exp camps by some arbitrary factors, and nobody else did anything but level at those camps. I knew people who dinged 75, who had never been to the Zi'tah area, COP areas, or practically anywhere else besides the zones that had good exp camps in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

And FYI, when you start pulling up ad-hominem attacks (which, "You're a boring person" qualifies as), I no longer have to give you any valid arguments. The argument is done, and now I'm just having fun with it or venting frustration at having to deal with someone who doesn't know jack s*** about arguing or debating.

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So now you have had your shout, had your swearing, and now have your fingers in your ears going La lalalalalalalalalala?

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

So now you have had your shout, had your swearing, and now have your fingers in your ears going La lalalalalalalalalala?

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You did too, so I guess we're even.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

You did too, so I guess we're even.

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Not at all, im being very receptive, you keep blockading the conversation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I found the complete opposite to be true about exploration in FFXI and WOW.

In WOW, leveling via questing takes you through multiple zones, and you explore them in full. Leveling via dungeons takes you through pretty much every dungeon, and there is no magical dungeon that lasts you 20 levels; it's 5 at best.

Compare that to FFXI, where there were only a few viable exp camps per level, and level progression almost always looked the same. People found the "best" exp camps by some arbitrary factors, and nobody else did anything but level at those camps. I knew people who dinged 75, who had never been to the Zi'tah area, COP areas, or practically anywhere else besides the zones that had good exp camps in.

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I never said a dungeon would last you 20 levels... I said you would do a single dungeon 20 times to get a level. I'd be fine with being able to do quests to level as long as they weren't something you did from level one until the cap. There are only so many ideas for what a quest can have you do before it gets repetitively tedious and the fact that you are doing it by yourself makes it a step further into the boring category and even worse party grinding.

What you are saying about "best" exp camps is, to an extent, proving my point. People without much knowledge of the game believed in the idea that there was one best camp and if it was taken, exping wasn't worth it. If you spent the time and learned the zones, you could get unbelievably better camps that weren't common knowledge. Sometimes it took unorthodox thinking to get a place to level and that only strengthened your bond to the game and the community, and in turn made you better suited to handle end-game content.

I would like to see a Sky type area but with new claiming rules so people couldn't steal your spawn or MPK you. Maybe make it so other mobs despawn or return to there territory after getting XX yalms from the NM.

"Crazy Wild Nannygoat is intimidated by Kirin and returns to its territory!" <-- example

I don't like that NM's link anything around them. It just leads to unnecessary complications during the fight, for example fighting a level 25 NM and a level 80 mob about a mile away decides it wants in on this too. Yes Black Shroud, I am looking at you -.-

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Not at all, im being very receptive, you keep blockading the conversation.

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"You're just a boring person" isn't blockading the conversation at all, then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryans

I never said a dungeon would last you 20 levels... I said you would do a single dungeon 20 times to get a level. I'd be fine with being able to do quests to level as long as they weren't something you did from level one until the cap. There are only so many ideas for what a quest can have you do before it gets repetitively tedious and the fact that you are doing it by yourself makes it a step further into the boring category and even worse party grinding.

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My bad, I misread that. But is it really so bad if people did the same dungeon X amount of runs until the next one was available? How is that any worse from killing Y amount of monsters at the same exp camp before you were able to move at the next one?

And I totally agree with you on "quests" becoming boring, repetitive, and low on content, but Blizzard has found a way to work around that. Quests now progress you through a zone, and they're all tied with each other in terms of story. So while an individual quest might be worthless in terms of lore or cool tasks, when you look at the chain as a whole, it's actually quite nice.

If FFXIV were to have quest based leveling, I would like to see something similar. One longer quest chain, with smaller quests that all build on each other.

Quote:

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What you are saying about "best" exp camps is, to an extent, proving my point. People without much knowledge of the game believed in the idea that there was one best camp and if it was taken, exping wasn't worth it. If you spent the time and learned the zones, you could get unbelievably better camps that weren't common knowledge. Sometimes it took unorthodox thinking to get a place to level and that only strengthened your bond to the game and the community, and in turn made you better suited to handle end-game content.

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Proving your point in what way? 90%+ of FFXI players stuck to the same camps. When I tried to move people around at other camps, I was told no, even when I was playing a job with a lot of sway in a party setting (WHM, RDM, and SCH). This is especially true after TOAU came out and people did colibri parties. People flat out didn't want to do anything but the tried and tested methods, and it's an absolute shame that it was that way, because the game went unexplored for a huge amount of people.

And it's not even instancing that did this. It's the fact that there WAS a clear and definite best way to level. All of the other, unpopular camps had some disadvantages (like being in a COP area, or long run to get to, or had to sneak by high level mobs, or required unorthodox party makeups, or whatever). What disadvantages did the popular camps have? None. The people with combat log parsers cherry picked the mobs that died the easiest, that had the best respawn rate, in the least dangerous corner of a map, and with the least dangerous TP moves.

Other MMOs have balanced their levelup methods and made them all accessible, and people spread out among the different styles. Using WOW as an example again, I've leveled characters by straight mob grinding, by questing, and by dungeons. If I liked PVP, I could level a character that way too. The fact that Blizzard made it easy to get started on any of these activities (but not necessarily master them, end-game dungeons and PVP are still difficult), there is not one bit of content in the game that goes unused.

Instancing isn't what ruins a game. Poorly balanced rewards and play styles do. Instancing just helps with balance.

Why would anyone want anything besides that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

See, in one post you raged, called people names and showed how aggressive you are. In other words, the very people you seem to want to be instanced away from.

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l2r and he didnt called names. if you cant argue and responding with denial then how can you make your point across the boards?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bearforce

good idea,s from XI? prior abyssea or after? i wont argue there, because its obvious where the idea,s of endgame abbysea came from

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Instead of just being a jerk taking every idea to the ground why dont you care to share what would a good endgame content would be?

We are already getting best of both worlds in the future of FFXIV you dont have to be so clever to find out, no matter what people says we're getting most of the ideas from FFXI, i. e. We have some lore about 2 gralean commanders, they say where they are at the moment, Sky (Ala mhigo?) not exactly on the sky but definetely a new area to be added and maybe not accesible without a chain of quest. Hamlet defense, FFXI campaign? with the FFXIV taste, dungeons?

Actually saw a lot of videos from a ppl on youtube of several dungeons that already exist and are probably being implemented later on, WoW type of instance? maybe for casual playing, we already know by now that the gear we get from drops on dungeons are lesser than the ones that are crafted, and as we saw at the begining of the game some NM's drop mats to make those pieces, so yeah basically theres gonna be gear for casuals and gear for hardcore people, PvP between companies, conquest from FFXI? Battleground from WoW in WotLK? we already know it will be, PvP in colisseum is almost the same PvP that we had in XI too.

and i can go on in a few stuff just by playing the game and checking the constant lore that SE release.

Yeah, why would anyone want anything but what he wants? [/narcissism]

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Yeah, why would anyone want anything but what he wants? [/narcissism]

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Instancing content, in a worst case scenario, supports the same kind of play styles offered by open world content. Best case scenario, instancing is like a hundred-fold more flexible and complex than open world.

If i remember correctly many many moons ago there was mention of a story locked area.

It might still be in the games future. Defiantly would not expect to see it until the post 2.0 eorzea though.

This is what people typically did in ffxi to level once ToAU was out before abyssea. What it boiled down to was getting the best camp for that level range. Oh when they added level sync people basically wanted to stay at colibri camps forever.

1-12 starter city areas
13-16 Valkurm Dunes - crab/fly/goblin
19-24 Qufim Island -crab/fish/worm
24-27 Yuhtunga Jungle - mandy
27-34 Yhotor - mandy
34-54 Crawlers nest (worker crawler, nest bettle, solider crawler, rumble crawler, helm bettle) With garlarige the alt camp
54-59 Bhaf thickets - Lesser Colibri
59-68 Bhaf Thickets - Colibri
69-75 Bhaf thickets - Greater Colibri

Its not like people had some grand adventure exploring all the areas in the game they just stuck to a few camps, only if coliribi was taken people would go to a less desired camp or try and run a party out by camping on top of them