So how exactly will the Mentor System not be abused?

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't even have a walk/run toggle key on my keyboard. Why do you want to move slower?

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It was a figure of speech they were using not literally meaning walking.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't even have a walk/run toggle key on my keyboard. Why do you want to move slower?

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lol, wow.. just....wow.

It's a figure of speech, you learn the basics of the game before the advanced strategies such as speed running.

Can you help me set up my hotbars too? I've been told that I shouldn't keep Shield Oath on at all because it's bad, but it seems pretty ok? What do you think

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I'm actually a bit curious if something like, the new players need to vote if you were helpful or not at the end of the dungeon and you get a reward based on that would be abused in some way. I can see a tank or a healer holding a group hostage, but at the same time even if you say "I'll give you my vote" to get the party going you could easily just... not vote for them.

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You mean like player commendations where 80% of the community leave instances without commending anyone because their standards are too high despite it not killing them to give to at least one person?

This is why we can't have nice things.

And if you abuse it, senpai will never notice you.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

You mean like player commendations where 80% of the community leave instances without commending anyone because their standards are too high despite it not killing them to give to at least one person?

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That annoys the hell out of me.

The flip side, I'm all set to praise someone for doing a great job and everyone just leaves. Why are so many people in such a rush? Slow down!

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

You mean like player commendations where 80% of the community leave instances without commending anyone because their standards are too high despite it not killing them to give to at least one person?

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The biggest problem with player commedations is that they show up in a small optionally clickable box at the end of the dungeon. Most people forget it's there or want out of the dungeon asap. Make the box actually show up at the end of the dungeon (the one you'd get after clicking the small box) so that people can't simply ignore it and that problem is solved. Things being wrong with a previously contrived system doesn't inherently mean the next one won't be better implemented. I mean it could easily be horrible, but it can be done right without any real abuse.

I played another game with a rather barebones mentor system. The mentor and the pupil would get rewards for the pupil reaching certain level milestones. There were also bonuses for the mentor and the pupil leveling together, but the bonuses were generally meaningless to the mentor, and what usually happened was that the pupil was just reduced to being a name on a list, and the mentor would get rewards for doing basically nothing.

What probably ruined that game's mentor system the most was that the community as a whole, if they were forced to do outdated content, expected to be compensated with something useful at endgame. So not only was the mentor system largely ignored, a lot of new content is often declared dead on release just because the rewards had little value in the market and/or didn't provide any equipment that was stronger than previously released gear by a wide margin. It didn't help that the level cap was raised every summer. The community wasn't a very helpful sort.

A mentor system for FF14 might work out differently, especially since we don't know how it'll work here yet, but reading these forums makes me believe the community's reaction to it may not be any different.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't even have a walk/run toggle key on my keyboard. Why do you want to move slower?

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Are people really taking this bait? >o>

Already dreading bad players mentoring new players.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

Already dreading bad players mentoring new players.

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Then you must fight for justice and become the best senpai. Eorzea and all its hopes rest upon your midlander shoulders!

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

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Sadly the few mentor systems I have seen always seem to fall victim to being just cash cows, you say hello once and never speak again. I mentioned it earlier but TOUCH was my only hands on experience with a mentor system and while I admit totally different genre of games, it handled it in a way I think was worth while. You gained points for the student reaching certain goals but they also gave incentives to actually play and work with them, rewarding the time you put into it by increasing the points. The main reward being a dancing game was simply glamours but as others have said, that is our end game isn't it?

The only thing that worries me is how it goes. Will we be limited on the number of people we can tutor? What rewards (if any, I am fine with none) will there be? Cus you can imagine if there is any unique reward to this "Will pay <x> gil for tutors!" I only worry cus I admit I don't see a whole lot of green leafs around outside the fresh crop of blackmage gil farmers and free money is always enticing to players who are lacking.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

In FFXI, a mentor flag was a sure sign that the player didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

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Originally Posted by Raji_Lev

Wha- dude, you can't say bad stuff about FFXI or its community like that here! You trying to get "re-educated" by the nostalgia brigade or something?

(also, I agree :p)

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Nostalgia brigade here.

Waeksyn is mostly correct. I recall few "mentors" who were both knowledgeable and helpful. Some were just helpful, few were more knowledgeable than the players around their level, and others were keen on "helping" by putting down newer players who didn't know what to do exactly quite yet.

That or they don't know how to word their sentences properly as not to come off as condescending regardless of correct/incorrect information.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

That or they don't know how to word their sentences properly as not to come off as condescending regardless of correct/incorrect information.

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Sounds accurate, if the forums are any indication.

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

My ls leader was a mentor in ffxi, really nice chap always helpful with quests spent majority of his time doing that. Awful rdm tho, never beat maat kept trying to melee him down.

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In his defense: RDM Maat was the most difficult of the Maat fights. RDM was usually relegated to heal/haste/refresh duty: meaning elemental, enfeebling, and sword/dagger skill were sub par while healing and enhancing were high. Unless the red mage in question grinded for hours upon hours upon HOURS on their magics and had (and switched between) all the elemental staves with the highest level elemental spells for 75 RDM; RDM Maat was STILL damn hard to beat, impossible by just meleeing.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

In his defense: RDM Maat was the most difficult of the Maat fights. RDM was usually relegated to heal/haste/refresh duty: meaning elemental, enfeebling, and sword/dagger skill were sub par while healing and enhancing were high. Unless the red mage in question grinded for hours upon hours upon HOURS on their magics and had (and switched between) all the elemental staves with the highest level elemental spells for 75 RDM; RDM Maat was STILL damn hard to beat, impossible by just meleeing.

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Ya, I beat him at level 66 first time :3 I was prepared, however despite me telling him over and over how to beat him he insisted on meleeing XD

Rdm maat really wasnt hard, just capped skills and decent gear easy peasy. I think as well fighting him on a light day or something further lowered sleep resist rates or other way round.

The skill cap was just set far too high, it also didn't help that around that level, colibris would reflect magic resulting in rdms having less than idea skill stats. The only option was the mountains, rdm had a very poor party playstyle as well refesh refresh refresh, alot of players were just not prepared for what maat was about.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Using fear to impose your will onto others isn't exactly an admirable point of argument.

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Man that sounds really similar to something I've seen a lot on this forum...

I can't quite PARSE my memory and recall where though...

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

What rewards (if any, I am fine with none) will there be?

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I am really hoping there will be none, so the majority of people using the system (if it can be used like this at all) are people actually wanting to help.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

It wont be abused... it will attract selfless helpful people, and most of which will be the kind that want to help but can't really help, if that makes any sense. Aka people with big hearts.

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That's incredibly optimistic.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

now serves only to act as a witch hunt flag for farming groups?

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TIL first timers have Savage on farm.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I am really hoping there will be none, so the majority of people using the system (if it can be used like this at all) are people actually wanting to help.

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I agree.
If there's gonna be anything, nothing more then an achievement/title would be necessary.

Hopefully it works like FFXI did it:

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mentor

I didn't read through all 7 pages, but I hope that there's a review at the end that the mentor gets graded by the mentee. A sufficient number of bad reviews ought to make it so the mentor is no longer eligible.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

I didn't read through all 7 pages, but I hope that there's a review at the end that the mentor gets graded by the mentee. A sufficient number of bad reviews ought to make it so the mentor is no longer eligible.

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how is a mentee going to judge a Mentor ? the Mentee (technically) knows nothing since he is new, how can someone that knows nothing in a position to judge another person?...the answer ? subjectivity. Results of a teaching are never seen right off the bat, they are only visible over time. Half an hour or an hour of teaching doesnt account for much.

Besides, on what criteria are you going to judge the Mentor, knowing that some people ill-treat someone else because of the *race* they choose to play ? ...seriously, people in this game are not mature enough (at least in occident) to be allowed to set judgements on another person. In Japan, probably, due their social ways, it will work fine, but in this side of the world ? you joking right ?

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

how is a mentee going to judge a Mentor ? the Mentee (technically) knows nothing since he is new, how can someone that knows nothing in a position to judge another person?...the answer ? subjectivity. Results of a teaching are never seen right off the bat, they are only visible over time. Half an hour or an hour of teaching doesnt account for much.

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I think that if there's a reward for getting the mentee to vote for you, but no reward or punishment if he doesn't, then it encourages you to help the mentee when using the roulette and it isn't just a free pass at some tomes or whatever.

Why would I be joking? If the mentee says that the mentor was friendly and helpful, then the mentor should be rewarded for it. If, on the other hand, the mentee says the mentor was rude and unhelpful, then the mentor should be punished for it. That would include no rewards for the run and, in the event the mentor receives X number of negative reviews, they get their mentor-ship ability revoked.

Sure, you might get some people who queue as a mentee only to give negative reviews, but overall, it will shake out the way it's supposed to.

But! Inb4 Mentor/mentee reward trading.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

Why would I be joking? If the mentee says that the mentor was friendly and helpful, then the mentor should be rewarded for it. If, on the other hand, the mentee says the mentor was rude and unhelpful, then the mentor should be punished for it. That would include no rewards for the run and, in the event the mentor receives X number of negative reviews, they get their mentor-ship ability revoked.

Sure, you might get some people who queue as a mentee only to give negative reviews, but overall, it will shake out the way it's supposed to.

But! Inb4 Mentor/mentee reward trading.

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so just make a new character find a guilible mentor leave bad review laugh as they can't be nice anymore. how about no?

just leave it so you can leave your mentor if you find them not being very nice/friendly/helpful