Ifrit reward system seriously needs tweaking

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Good lord no.

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So you would rather it just gets randomly dumped into someones inventory /sigh

Wow people are seriously against that, is that because WoW does it ? or do you have a valid reason for not wanting it ?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

So you would rather it just gets randomly dumped into someones inventory /sigh

Wow people are seriously against that, is that because WoW does it ? or do you have a valid reason for not wanting it ?

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I am against your suggestion to homogenize the game into the same ilk as "all other MMos" - I play FFXIV because it's different, not because it's the same as the ones I have already played to death. If I wanted that, I would continue to play them.

I'm against pop up boxes as well because its very annoying, especially if its coming up for a lot of useless rubbish.

Just do an XI system, why need more or less? why complicate things, a Shared PT Loot, that is it. nothing more. nothing less.

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Originally Posted by viion

I'm against pop up boxes as well because its very annoying, especially if its coming up for a lot of useless rubbish.

Just do an XI system, why need more or less? why complicate things, a Shared PT Loot, that is it. nothing more. nothing less.

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It would only pop up for U/U items, LOL I wouldn't want it to pop up for white items either.

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I am against your suggestion to homogenize the game into the same ilk as "all other MMos" - I play FFXIV because it's different, not because it's the same as the ones I have already played to death. If I wanted that, I would continue to play them.

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I don't think taking one aspect of the "Genre" is going to ruin the game, its clear Yoshi-p plans to (and already has) take lot more than that from current MMO's so I think you're guna be disappointed.

The reason why it's like this is because it's not like batraal where you just beat the boss and get loot. For ifrit, you not only need to beat the boss but you also need to be in possession of an Inferno Lamp key item. If you have a key item, you are allowed to loot the chest. If you don't have it you can't loot the chest.

In order to avoid people getting loot who didn't have the key item, the loot goes straight into the inventory of players who were able to loot the chest. It's exactly like Faction NMs, where only people who had the leve could get loot. However, the end result loot from faction NMs was tradeable, so it wasn't really an issue.

What they ought to do is spawn more than one chest, each that contains only one of the weapons. Then the player can choose which chest to open. If you didn't have the key item, you can't open any chests.

The ifrit fight might seem like a time sinc and not worth it but DPS doesn't lie and our lancer who picked up the weapon last night went from 21-23 dps durring the ifrit fights to 28-29 from switching his hart guisarm+1(+28attack power-IV) to the ifrit harpoon. 15-25% increase in dps over the current best alternative weapon for the best DD class in game right now is worth the effort to me.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

I am against your suggestion to homogenize the game into the same ilk as "all other MMos" - I play FFXIV because it's different, not because it's the same as the ones I have already played to death. If I wanted that, I would continue to play them.

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While i really dont like the more mainstream way, It is better this system, but i do like they are trying as well..

I think a token or item trade system is different enough but a huge improvment..
So how about:

A point system, as you where every time you defeat Ifrit you get Flame Wards.
You can use those to Bid on the 1 sure Key item (that is traded to get a weapon for Ifrit), and everyone still gets some lesser token, and there is a 1/32 chance someone gets a Key Item token and can trade it for a weapon.

It keep Random chances, Gives a Def chance at a weapon each time, rewards hardcore players with a lot of time, but still gives casual's a good chance to get the weapon or save up for a weapon./

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

The ifrit fight might seem like a time sinc and not worth it but DPS doesn't lie and our lancer who picked up the weapon last night went from 21-23 dps durring the ifrit fights to 28-29 from switching his hart guisarm+1(+28attack power-IV) to the ifrit harpoon. 15-25% increase in dps over the current best alternative weapon for the best DD class in game right now is worth the effort to me.

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NO IT ISN'T! I WANT IT YESTERDAY AND I WANT TO DUEL WIELD BOWZ!

Dare I say it, copy/pasted voidwatch chest loot!

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Originally Posted by Actus

I'm probably gonna piss a bunch of people off here with these SS, but seriously...

After you kill Ifrit, you open the chest and you randomly get 1 of the 7 weapons. It doesn't go to loot pool so that people who can use it can get it. It isn't determined on what jobs you have leveled. It's just stupidly random.

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...6df10079b4.jpg

I'm a mage. Let me get a mage weapon. I've killed Ifrit over thirty times and I'm getting DoW weapons. Not the ones I can use. Come on...

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But if they made it give you what you wanted, you'd get it faster and it would cheapen the experience!!

No, but seriously, I agree here. At the very least it should be added to a loot list -- maybe a special one that only high profile items go into?

If not that, if a weapon drops it should give each user the weapon associated with their class. That way, even if they decreased the overall drop rate, the entire group would get it if anyone got one. Would also mean that people got exactly what they wanted at the time -- but I guess its random for poeple who go as classes to fill in gaps in the formation. You don't gwant to get a GLA wepaon if you're only GLA part-time and you group already had a CON to replace you -- or at least one could assume.

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Originally Posted by Burn

Dare I say it, copy/pasted voidwatch chest loot!

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I thought the same exact thing, did FFXIV miss the extremely large chunk of XI players that are still furious about this drop system in voidwatch

also, absolutely no to the popups for enemy drops, they are extremely obnoxious, XIs system is the one worth copying (except voidwatch)

Alot of people are saying this system is similar to ones in FFXI, which they also mention are very painful lol.

1 in 7 chance to get the weapon you want (number of classes) multiplied by 1 in 8 (the number in the party) =1/56 chance
equals less then 2% chance... say it drops 3 weapons... thats still less the 6%. Every time you do ifrit its about 5.3%
its worst then forbidden materia crafting

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Originally Posted by Gold_Lion

1 in 7 chance to get the weapon you want (number of classes) multiplied by 1 in 8 (the number in the party) =1/56 chance
equals less then 2% chance... say it drops 3 weapons... thats still less the 6%. Every time you do ifrit its about 5.3%
its worst then forbidden materia crafting

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Forbidden Ifrit Loot system

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Originally Posted by ViciousValentine

Alot of people are saying this system is similar to ones in FFXI, which they also mention are very painful lol.

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this is only liek Voidwatch in FFXI's loot system, outside of voidwatch FFXI has an excellent loot distribution pool

I don't really see the issue here with a 5% or even a 1% chance to get the best weapon in the game... I mean once you can kill the guy once you can get it on farm right? And each time someone does pop and get their weapon it will just make the fight that much easier. I mean really do you want a 25% or a 50% or a 100% chance to get the best item in the game? Seems to make it really pointless. I mean everyone would be running around with one pretty quickly if that was the case. And can't you repeat and fight him as often as you like? It's not like World of Warcraft which has 24 hour or 1 week lock outs. Didn't get the item you want too bad wait a day or a week to try again.

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Originally Posted by thepoet03

I don't really see the issue here with a 5% or even a 1% chance to get the best weapon in the game... I mean once you can kill the guy once you can get it on farm right? And each time someone does pop and get their weapon it will just make the fight that much easier. I mean really do you want a 25% or a 50% or a 100% chance to get the best item in the game? Seems to make it really pointless. I mean everyone would be running around with one pretty quickly if that was the case. And can't you repeat and fight him as often as you like? It's not like World of Warcraft which has 24 hour or 1 week lock outs. Didn't get the item you want too bad wait a day or a week to try again.

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The issue isn't the chance, its the fact you get loaded down with things you don't need in the mean time.

I hated in FFXI when I was bogged down with tons of Seals for every job except the ones I wanted. With no ability to trade in for something useful, it feels like a waste of a reward -- basically the rule of odds. Even though you don't actually get 1 drop every 8 times, the average rate is going to be at least close to that, so people feel cheated out of their [1] when it drops as another weapon. Additionally, when, within range of that [8] you get two drops that aren't what you want, the default feeling is that now it's going to be 1-in-16 for the next one. even though it doesn't actually work like that, odds tend to evoke feelings of consistency and balance like this.

Its the same for me when building decks for Magic. technically if I'm running 20 lands in a 60 card deck, I feel cheated if I don't draw one every 3rd turn. It makes perfect sense if I don't, because its totally random, but when you're playing the odds there's a weird internal assumption that things are going to work out towards the ratio.

The best solution to this is if Ifrit would drop some kind of voucher (such as "Ifrit Horn" R/Ex) into your inventory and you could turn it in to the Quest NPC for weapon of your choice, more like defeating the Avatars in XI. I really like that it bypasses loot because it shits on (unnecessary and corruptible) point systems, but I totally agree that getting a weapon you can't (or don't want to) even use is completely ridiculous.

I've always thought it would be nice if MMO could regulate their own rewards better than allowing players to determine where loot goes when it drops. It's as simple as earning points (like ampoules in Einherjar) and turning those in for powerful rewards rather than random loot drops. It also eliminates the threat of loot ninja and favoritism in morally deficient LS governments. I admit it's not as exciting as getting Ridill to drop, but I think it would be a nice alternative.

So this is just like a too extreme version of how it should work, in my opinion.

They arent the best weapons in the game...materia attached gear can become more powerful.

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Originally Posted by ViciousValentine

They arent the best weapons in the game...materia attached gear can become more powerful.

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Don't you love the way that feels when you type it? Ugh. Its like playing FFVII online almost. (And I'm not even a huge fan of 7)

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Originally Posted by ViciousValentine

They arent the best weapons in the game...materia attached gear can become more powerful.

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Yes, but it will take 4 melds to do so. And that is a stretch to accomplice.

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Originally Posted by Gold_Lion

1 in 7 chance to get the weapon you want (number of classes) multiplied by 1 in 8 (the number in the party) =1/56 chance
equals less then 2% chance... say it drops 3 weapons... thats still less the 6%. Every time you do ifrit its about 5.3%
its worst then forbidden materia crafting

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There's a 14% chance of getting the weapon that you are after each chest spawn. I think the average drop rate between the group is around 7-10%. So you're looking at 1.4% chance at getting the drop you're wanting.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

The reason why it's like this is because it's not like batraal where you just beat the boss and get loot. For ifrit, you not only need to beat the boss but you also need to be in possession of an Inferno Lamp key item. If you have a key item, you are allowed to loot the chest. If you don't have it you can't loot the chest.

In order to avoid people getting loot who didn't have the key item, the loot goes straight into the inventory of players who were able to loot the chest. It's exactly like Faction NMs, where only people who had the leve could get loot. However, the end result loot from faction NMs was tradeable, so it wasn't really an issue.

What they ought to do is spawn more than one chest, each that contains only one of the weapons. Then the player can choose which chest to open. If you didn't have the key item, you can't open any chests.

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Or just have Ifrit drop a horn (or acquire the horn from the chest), which you can take to an npc to get the item of your choice crafted, FF11 used to something similar to this.

Better yet seeing as the Ifrit quest is repeatable why not take the horn back to the NPC and have the choice to select the weapon you want.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

If I heard right, everyone gets something yes. While I do love the idea that no matter what, you get a little token for the fight, the randomness of it is a little silly.

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Hi Vahzl,

Actually the OP confirmed that everyone does *not* get a Weapon for each kill. This makes this system even worse than what we thought. :(

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No, there is no garunteed drop. Kill 34 now and two of the group have only received one item. The drop rate chance is where it should be. At the rate that they're getting items it'll take them over 200 kills before they get the weapon they want. That is ballsfucking stupid.

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I hope this fix this.

How these guys can take an outright AWFUL system and make it even worse is beyond any words. These are the guys that are supposed to be fixing the game. The random loot list was bad enough so they decided to just randomly put it in your inventory.

There are simply NO words to describe incompetence of this level.

I am confident you guys have already thought of this already. Since he is on farmable status with ya the only thing I can mention to think of and since I have never killed the big guy is for all but 1 player to leave the zone and allow just 1 person per kill to open chest thus increasing drop chances for that 1 individualized player...if that is, it is possible for 7 other players to leave the zone and not all at once. It's not a guaranteed fix but would probably help.

Hopefully this gets a major fix in the future.

Well then, now you have end-game content. You can kill Ifrit over and over until you get what you want.

Yay?

Square Enix stop making artificial difficulty and timesinks which are pointless and frustrating. Please get it together.

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Originally Posted by Gold_Lion

1 in 7 chance to get the weapon you want (number of classes) multiplied by 1 in 8 (the number in the party) =1/56 chance
equals less then 2% chance... say it drops 3 weapons... thats still less the 6%. Every time you do ifrit its about 5.3%
its worst then forbidden materia crafting

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Corrected data as confirmed above shows that there is like a 9 in 10 chance that the chest yields Grade 4 Dark Matter and not an ifrit weapon...

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Corrected data as confirmed above shows that there is like a 9 in 10 chance that the chest yields Grade 4 Dark Matter and not an ifrit weapon...

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I would honestly rather Ifrit have a 1/10 chance of dropping 1 weapon, and being able to assign that weapon to a party member.

Do the people with low obtain percentages have a Lamp every attempt? Patch notes says members with Lamps will recieve "greater" rewards. It may mean its impossible to get a weapon w/o having one.

Everyone always has a lamp. They'd get smacked around IRL if they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Actus

Everyone always has a lamp. They'd get smacked around IRL if they didn't.

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Oh well, was a thought anyways I had reading this thread when I remembered what the patch notes had mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Other alternatives could have been:

- Pick up a token which can be traded to a vendor for a selection of loot from a list
- Drops only crafting materials, which can be used to make your weapon of choice

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^ This..they have a couple of different weapons that have to be made by getting NM drops no? Why not just go about it with Ifrit the same way. No offence, but if i WANT the damned 1 handed sword for tanking, why should i go through all that and have a lance drop in my bag?

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Originally Posted by Gold_Lion

1 in 7 chance to get the weapon you want (number of classes) multiplied by 1 in 8 (the number in the party) =1/56 chance
equals less then 2% chance... say it drops 3 weapons... thats still less the 6%. Every time you do ifrit its about 5.3%
its worst then forbidden materia crafting

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^ this changed my mind from the OP's opinion.

Look I haven't done the fight yet, but if they really are the best in the game, then giving them as handouts is lame. MMO's have this competitive undertone to them that make them such better game than a standard solo play rpg.

I'm not saying it isn't frustrating, because I get how irritating it would be to have 5 weapons you can't use. However the drop %age seems about right for something that is 'the best in the game'. It's just that instead of getting nothing, you get something you might use someday.

The loot pool system (if the above is assumed) is a different matter. XI had it right, 1 pool, lots on items or distributed by a LS leader. You join a linkshell that has a loot system you like, you don't change a good loot system because some people don't like how other people pass out gear.

Sounds frustrating but at least this way people can't sell the loot. What I mean is paying someone to take you in and get you the weapon you want for a couple of million gil, and then everyone with enough coin will eventually have ifrit drops. This maybe the only benefit from this I guess.

Still sounds horrible that one can't actually get the stuff you "need". So I am completely for changing it to the normal loot system instead of that straight to inventory nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Rauru

Sounds frustrating but at least this way people can't sell the loot. What I mean is paying someone to take you in and get you the weapon you want for a couple of million gil, and then everyone with enough coin will eventually have ifrit drops. This maybe the only benefit from this I guess.

Still sounds horrible that one can't actually get the stuff you "need". So I am completely for changing it to the normal loot system instead of that straight to inventory nonsense.

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Never heard of this happening lol. The already existing system (loot list) is very open to ninja looting already. Im fairly sure Square Enix doesn't consider alternative looting opinions.

The system isn't an ideal solution, and that's pretty much for sure, but it's much less shameful than the many here that can't express criticism without resorting to insults and rather unsightly personal attacks towards the dev team.

Some people seriously have no shame, and should learn how to communicate without seething hostility and the massive use of hyperbole before learning to play an online game. In the meanwhile, they should be barred from owning a modem. It would sensibly reduce the pollution of the internet.

Not even level 50, do not have a linkshell, will likely never access this fight, but I still think this drop system is absolutely absurd. When I first read that's how the system was I seriously didn't believe it and had to look around more.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The system isn't an ideal solution, and that's pretty much for sure, but it's much less shameful than the many here that can't express criticism without resorting to insults and rather unsightly personal attacks towards the dev team.

Some people seriously have no shame, and should learn how to communicate without seething hostility and the massive use of hyperbole before learning to play an online game. In the meanwhile, they should be barred from owning a modem. It would sensibly reduce the pollution of the internet.

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I agree that personal attacks are unwarranted but the devs need to know how unacceptable this system is... even with great future content this system can grind most of it to a hault if there is no way to realistically distribute items... which is 99% of the reason to do endgame. This is honestly almost as big of an issue as the lack of content is itself.

The looting system is not just bad it is absurd, with absolutely no benefits to it at all and it goes for more then just Ifrit it is all the drops from the new content. makes doing anything as a group a pain, make organized lotting literally impossible. Everything is just a permanent free for all, which simply does not work in any endgame mmo as a guild of more then 3-4ppl.

So while I appreciate the devs for working really hard at fixing the game... who ever designed this loot system needs to have a serious talking to from superiors and spend alot of late nights to redo this before 1.20 hits, this is/will hurting the endgame community of the game and makes organize group unable to reward members.... it is literally the worst system in a mmo to date, even worse then the Ninja lot system prior to this.

They need to go to a single loot pool shared by everyone with multiple options (random, quartermaster, etc). This way guilds can distribute items, they can reward those who put in the most work, they can go to the correct jobs, they can go to people to prevent lootwhoring drops. Atm you can invite a new person to the ls and get the drop over someone who has been a yr long member doing the event for weeks and weeks...and there is simply nothing that can be done.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

I agree that personal attacks are unwarranted but the devs need to know how unacceptable this system is... even with great future content this system can grind most of it to a hault if there is no way to realistically distribute items... which is 99% of the reason to do endgame. This is honestly almost as big of an issue as the lack of content is itself.

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If your idea of doing endgame is just grabbing new items, then again, IMHO you're doing it wrong. I would refrain from bunching 99% of the people with you.

Mind you even if you were right, it doesn't excuse some shameful posts I read around here. If someone can't get a point across without insulting and disrespecting the work of other people, then he has a problem way more serious than looting some shiny pixels or failing to.

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The looting system is not just bad it is absurd, with absolutely no benefits to it at all and it goes for more then just Ifrit it is all the drops from the new content. makes doing anything as a group a pain, make organized lotting literally impossible. Everything is just a permanent free for all, which simply does not work in any endgame mmo as a guild of more then 3-4ppl.

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What everyone seems to have missed is the simplest solution: it can easily be just a bug that surfaced just now as people are starting to beat ifrit.

But I know, simple solutions that don't warrant insults and extreme, overbearing and overdramatized negativity (not that it's warranted anyway, mind you), are normally overlooked on the internet.