The Vault Last Boss - (Healer Feedback)

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Originally Posted by Alisi

Lagging in that dungeon makes it nigh on impossible to avoid the avoidable damage. The telegraphs come late so it looks like you're out of the flame circle but you still get damage. That sort of thing.

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To be fair, aside from right at the start, those attacks are scripted to come with the horses. Also, the cast bar shows it. So you should be able to adjust with slight lag.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

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Because I don't like letting my party down. I don't feel like I can heal to my standard and would rather not let people die. It's just one of those things. I'm a perfectionist when coming to healing. I feel bad when people die. /shrug

And I have no idea why this is an issue my computer has with the vault. It's actually only the last boss. I have no problem with the dungeon at all, save the last boss. You'd think the second boss would give me more lag than the third but I have no problem with boss #2. It's like that with Fractal. I have no idea why it's only the #1 that makes me lag a ton. The rest before and after is smooth sailing. No lag. But I get to the first boss and it's really hard to avoid the telegraphs-o-death. lol Afterward, the lag all goes away.

Have you tried adjusting all the game graphics to near minimum, special effects especially? If it's only singular fights that cause the trouble it might be they have some loosely coded graphics or effects that cause your client to lag, more than any net lag. This might be a bit far fetched but.. have stumbled to odder problems at times. And this one should be fairly easy to test at least.

the vault is difficult lol

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Originally Posted by Sida

Have you tried adjusting all the game graphics to near minimum, special effects especially? If it's only singular fights that cause the trouble it might be they have some loosely coded graphics or effects that cause your client to lag, more than any net lag. This might be a bit far fetched but.. have stumbled to odder problems at times. And this one should be fairly easy to test at least.

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I'll check into that. Thanks. =)

Only issue I've had was that for some reason, on the same run, the chains wouldn't break, even if the players were end to end on the board.

Healed it both as Scholar and Astrologian recently, it was easy as Scholar with a Pld as tank but a tad annoying as Astrologian with a Dark Knight as a tank as the Dark Knight seemed a bit squishier... He didn't die though so I did my job however the Black Mage managed to kick the bucket because they weren't avoiding aoe's... Oh well, that I have no control over... Unless he was paralysed which he wasn't, lol.

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Originally Posted by Seunkii

Only issue I've had was that for some reason, on the same run, the chains wouldn't break, even if the players were end to end on the board.

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Its like in T6 its the distance you move not the distance between the players. the closer people are to begin with the sooner tethers break. So generally all should stick to boss ass (assuming theres a melee) to have the best chance for easy breaking.

Also healed it on all healers... leveled SCH first and struggled hard the whole dungeon, especially MP wise. AST in Diu felt like heaven once I started WHM and got there it was a walk in the park. Just needed to get comfy with the mechanics.

I don't think this is a difficult fight at all.

Altar Pyre = Indominatibility/Assize or Medica(II)/Emergency tactics + succor
Holy Chain = Keep a Divine Seal regen running on Tank / Lustrate
Heavensflame = Don't stand in stupid
Chess pieces = Simply have tank, tank in the back of the room. Gives you plenty of time to see and adapt and reposition
50% Phase = Healer DPS FTW!

For AST i don't know considering I don't play one, the main thing is really to dodge stupid, which is not such a hard task. We've had Circle AOE's every single dungeon up until now, only difference is the chess pieces you need to take into account now too. With right positioning this is a simple fight.

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Originally Posted by Seunkii

Only issue I've had was that for some reason, on the same run, the chains wouldn't break, even if the players were end to end on the board.

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This has happened to me a few times, you're on opposite corners of the arena with chain up >.>.

It is pretty challenging for healers, considering damage comes out hard and fast, both on your team-mates and the tank, usually at the same time, as a SCH I can handle it fine, Indomitabilty is just way too good in that fight, but as an AST, I had a few mana issues, especially when certain players think its a good idea to ignore chains for their sick deeps.

Its a pretty nice healer check, considering how easy some of the dungeons have been up until then. Its a bit more unforgiving when other players don't move out of AoE's, which can be frustrating for a healer doing their best.

I recently ran the Vault a lot as a WAR. Maybe it was my gear, but I always took a lot of damage in that fight. Tanking it isn't hard from a mechanics perspective, but I had to learn to manage my cooldowns and only switch to DPS stance for the middle phase where we kill all the little balls, then quickly get back to tank stance for the big hit.

THIS SHALL BE A MERCY!

As a tank, I found the 2nd boss of the Vault to be much more difficult. Knowing which way to face him for melee dps, where to stand, all while avoiding the Tears... Not easy. Though I'm also not the best tank.

Now I've moved on to the Library and it's SO MUCH EASIER!

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Originally Posted by Twilite

Hardly.. aside from Alter Pyre, I can literally go the entire fight without a single heal. No BS. That boss is just too predictable.

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The reason it sucks for BLMs is that you have to move way too much, meaning we can't utilize Ley Lines and have to constantly interrupt our long cast-times resulting in low damage. BRD has the same problems but they at least can turn off Wanderer's Minuet and maintain decent damage. Thank god it doesn't go up to 60 or else we'd lose any semblance of Enochian upkeep too and would just be wastes of spots compared to other 60s.

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Originally Posted by Zephan

The reason it sucks for BLMs is that you have to move way too much, meaning we can't utilize Ley Lines and have to constantly interrupt our long cast-times resulting in low damage. BRD has the same problems but they at least can turn off Wanderer's Minuet and maintain decent damage. Thank god it doesn't go up to 60 or else we'd lose any semblance of Enochian upkeep too and would just be wastes of spots compared to other 60s.

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Like every other fight in the game, once you're familiar with it you can avoid a lot of the movement. It's not hard to do solid dps in vault as blm.

As the person you replied to said, that fight is predictable.

i'm at this dungeon now on my WHM and I'm debating whether I should grind up to 58 so I can upgrade my weapon first; I'd been hearing that HW dungeons were more difficult to heal, but they haven't been too much so far.

Sohm Al was probably the most difficult and that was mostly cause of a few of the trash encounters (those ice crystal things come to mind..)

I guess I'll just sike myself up and bite the bullet tonight and queue. wish me luck

just gonna say this, I levelled sch and I hadnt touched it since way back when like maybe a year, and although my mp was low (shouldn't of been im just bad) I cleared that fight easily when I reached it.

the fight is not hard to heal it is not hard to dps, yeah tank takes a bit of damage but nothing really special. overall the fight is not difficult at all especially if a scrub sch like myself can one shot heal it.

as for that earlier comment about it being hard for blm.. lol just no.. so easy on blm.

My favorite is when I get chained to some ranged idiot already in the back of the room and I can't move far enough to break it because they won't stop tunneling.

And when the tank eats Every. Single. Horse.

And I got the chest in one of my first vault runs leveling AST after launch. Pretty but not my favorite. Held onto it anyway.

Those of you saying its not hard on blm haven't gotten a run where you're chained every. Single. Time.

Sohm Al crystals are easy. Have tank pull the Tursus group down the ramp to give them time to turn to sprites. Regen the tank before he pulls, or adlo as he's pulling. You *want" aggro on them.

Drag them down the ramp. They'll all start to explode at once. Move out, go about your business. Done.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Those of you saying its not hard on blm haven't gotten a run where you're chained every. Single. Time.

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Or... maybe it's just really not hard

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Or... maybe it's just really not hard

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No, its not, if you don't care about stacks or Enochian dropping.

If you do care, its a pain in the ass.

SE made high mobility fights and then gave black mages abilities reliant on standing in one spot.

Ley Lines was ripped right from WoW, and Rune of Power. Which also sucks, for the same reasons. You'd think he'd have known it wasn't liked there either.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

No, its not, if you don't care about stacks or Enochian dropping.

If you do care, its a pain in the ass.

SE made high mobility fights and then gave black mages abilities reliant on standing in one spot.

Ley Lines was ripped right from WoW, and Rune of Power. Which also sucks, for the same reasons. You'd think he'd have known it wasn't liked there either.

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You can't keep up enochian anyways if you're 57, and it's not a big deal to lose it until you get f4 at 60 (til then it's just a 5% buff). Plus your rotation's faster before f4, so you get more room to work with. Plus the first rotation gives you plenty of spare time to refresh.

"SE made high mobility fights and then gave black mages abilities reliant on standing in one spot" has been a thing since 2.0 launch. Blm needs to deal with movement. That's a big part of the job. If you don't like doing that then you don't like playing blm, so don't. It's a turret dps. There are plenty of ways to pre-position or utilize cooldowns to deal with it, assuming you're willing to. Same as every other fight with movement (which there are honestly few of in hw).

And no reason to lose AF/UI stacks. They last 10 seconds and f1 is 2.5 base cast; there's some movement sure, but not 7.5 straight seconds of it.

Chains, circles, horses, they all combine to make a fight where standing still just isn't an option a large amount of the time. Nobody said the fight was hard for BLMs, just that it sucks for BLMs given that movement is intrinsically against our playstyle. As you said, it doesn't matter if we lose Enochian and it's rare that we'd lose AF, but neither of those remove the point that our abilities have long cast times and thus are much more restricted in this fight than any other class', leading to our DPS being much lower in relation.

As an example, I was in the Vault the other day and was staying well ahead of the DRG in aggro in every other fight, but for the final boss he was a good 50% ahead of me most of the time. The only classes I would have been competitive with are BRD and MCH in WM/GB.

Can we please stop wanting everything to be easier? I actually like things to be difficult, even though the vault really isn't that difficult to begin with. I understand the feedback, but maybe people need to get experience with the dungeon, before automatically assuming that it's too difficult. You can't just jump into everything and blow through it with ease.

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Originally Posted by Zephan

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There's movement, but just do what blms always do when there's movement and you'll be fine. By 57 you should know a few tricks.

Stand near the entrance while dpsing. Knights always spawn on the opposite side so you get like a year to position when they spawn. Slidecast around like a boss, or wait for a party member to position and AM to em. You should lose no uptime to knights.

Can slidecast when chains first spawn and lose probably 1 gcd unless the other person is just herpaderping. Puddles spawn with knights, so be ready to slidecast; might lose 1 gcd but with luck you might not lose anything.

Then it all just repeats. During the dps check phase you just get occasional line aoes (small ones too). No reason to lose casting uptime to those.

It doesn't suck for blms, it sucks for blms who don't know how to deal with stuff that the job has had to deal with since 2.0. This is nothing new.

As with every other fight: after you've seen it once or twice (assuming you were paying attention) you'll do fine. The only reason not to be fine after a couple tries is if you threw up your hands, decided it was a bad blm fight, and just didn't try to handle the mechanics.

This just shows how bad the player base in ffxiv is. Wanting challenging encounters dumb down where people that are already playing there classes at 20% of its potential to making it so that they can play stationary and press 1-2-3.

This fight is actually my favorite dungeon fight (the whole dungeon is actually my favorite as a healer) I like that its more challenging especially when you are leveling up and I think it really prepares you as a healer for harder content and how to play your class well. I honestly hope that there are more fights like this and less where I'm just casting regen on the tank and throwing out weak dps for most of the dungeon.

I can see how it might be difficult for first timers - and of course it's tedious when no one wants to dodge mechanics.

Only time I found this difficult was when I was leveling AST pre-buff :(

Other than that it might just be a good idea to not move the camera around so much - angle it in a way that lets you get a good view of what's behind you.

I always have my camera moving. O.o

And if the boss isn't being tanked near the door, the blm standing there is a liability if they get chained to melee. Further apart you are, the harder they are to break.

You also need to remember this is a leveling dungeon. People on alt jobs might not have gear to actually not have issues there.

You can't just have the tank/healer carry everyone. This is the only dungeon I've outright *left* because the 2 250 dps blm/NIN couldn't kill it in a timely manner.

I did Vault many times and tried all 3 healer classes but didn't feel it's that terrible. You just need to meet better players nya~ /pet

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Originally Posted by Yawnie

Only time I found this difficult was when I was leveling AST pre-buff :(

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AST prebuff was still easier than on my SCH :o
Maybe though because I refused gearing up with anything that didn't have crit substat ^^
In general I find this boss easier with Aspected Helios/Medica 2 ticking though

It was difficult but not unbearable. I think every other dungeon in the game has a boring final boss that you can heal blindfolded just by targetting the main tank and spamming Cure/Physick/Benefic. At least this boss FELT LIKE A BOSS. I have healed/DPS'd/tanked Vault and I have to say it's stressful as either, which is why it's such a hard dungeon. All of the bosses are difficult. The first boss with her stupid holy orbs and her braver spam...the second boss knocking people back into black holes and giving them Crazzzzzzzzzzy vuln stacks, last boss with unavoidable raid-wide AoEs...

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

It was difficult but not unbearable. I think every other dungeon in the game has a boring final boss that you can heal blindfolded just by targetting the main tank and spamming Cure/Physick/Benefic. At least this boss FELT LIKE A BOSS.

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My biggest problem with the Vault last boss is other people (DPS) can get me killed.

Ok, I get it. Most people don't care about mechanics. If they want to stand in stuff for the first two bosses, fine. I can rez, as mana allows (not often in that dungeon but still). There's no enrage so as long as the tank lives we're good.

Then there's the last boss. I can carry pretty hard but if I'm on the edge of the arena and the person I'm tethered to just won't budge... It's a wipe! He also hits tanks pretty hard, like, you've got to stay on them with a lot more than just a regen. Makes it hard to get MP back for a raise if one DPS kills the other.

That said, my only real problem is tethers/chains. Outside of Coil/Savage raids, my party members shouldn't kill me when they fail a mechanic.

I found the last boss a little more difficult then the rest of the leveling content, but it was rarely wiped, except on those occasions where someone would stand in the middle chained to me and not move. ;-;. You monster.

SCH it was great with Indom, probably the easiest. AST was alright, because of Synastry. WHM was awesome because you could stand in the middle and CS+Assize during the fireball stage... 1/3 of all of them dead in 1 skill. D: The worst part was the final phase where your FPS plummets a moment between the ponies, the chain, and the fire puddles. Still doable most of the time.

The only problem with the Vault's final fight is that there really hasn't been a fight that requires as much healer throughput since Pharos Sirius' first boss. If anything, they should consider making older fights harder so healers can get conditioned to burst healing while handling mechanics rather than making one fight easier.

Here's hoping we get some more healer intensive fights in 3.1 to allow us to really flex our muscles, God knows that lots of us haven't been using them lately.

its not as bad as the Aery. SABLE PRICE still ruining lives!

Having leveled all jobs to 60 and doing every dungeon on each of them I'd say The Vault and especially the last boss is how dungeons should be, just difficult enough to be just a tad interesting but still so easy that you can clear it without wipes with new people in the party if they can read 3 short lines of text.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

its not as bad as the Aery. SABLE PRICE still ruining lives!

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How? Any single healer or dps can take it down on their own so you only need one of the 2 who aren't trapped to pay attention, the only problem with sable price is when the tank feels the need to "help" and turns the boss towards the party getting everyone cleaved.

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

How? Any single healer or dps can take it down on their own so you only need one of the 2 who aren't trapped to pay attention, the only problem with sable price is when the tank feels the need to "help" and turns the boss towards the party getting everyone cleaved.

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I've had multiple runs where nobody would attack it so I started only leveling on that one with friends after that lol.

The first time I did the Vault as a WHM, I had a pretty terrible party--DPS that wouldn't separate while chained/tethered, party members being hit by the enemies that cross the arena, standing in AOEs, etc. We wiped a lot. It really made me question whether I wanted to continue maining a healing job and my own performance as a healer. But when I ran it a second time, it was smooth sailing. To be honest, the Vault isn't a difficult dungeon--all three bosses have mechanics that players should watch for (i.e. where to stand during the second boss or separating when being chained during the third)--but healing the Vault is only really a struggle when your party is doing poorly--which is the case most of the time as a healer--our job is usually the easiest or most difficult depending on our party's performance. Every other time I've done the Vault, as a WHM and later as an AST (pre-buff), I didn't find any issues with it. I haven't completed it as SCH yet, so I can't comment on their performance in the Vault. The last boss is definitely more healing-intensive than the bosses from other dungeons, but not unnecessarily so. It's just more punishing for mistakes. For me, it was a nice change overall though.

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

the only problem with sable price is when the tank feels the need to "help" and turns the boss towards the party getting everyone cleaved.

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The struggle is real. I don't want to cleave you but... nobody is hitting the bloody prison. Must - save - lives. ಠ_ಠ

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Originally Posted by Zephan

Chains, circles, horses, they all combine to make a fight where standing still just isn't an option a large amount of the time.

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I've tanked this fight a lot recently while I leveled DRK, and I stand still 80-90% of the time in the last phase and only barely move because the mechanics are so incredibly predictable once you've understood the pattern. Wait for horses, locate safe spot, bait Heavensflame (i.e., don't move at all if you're not in a safe spot), move to safe spot, repeat. Plus, most of my movement is on a single horizontal line parallel to the horses, which makes everything even easier.

Granted, as a tank, you don't get chained. But even with chains, the movement required in this fight is a bit above average at best, as long as you know what you - or rather, the boss - are doing.

This is still my favorite pre-60 boss in HW, *especially* because it seems so chaotic until you figure out the patterns.