If i ever attempt red scripts again, i'll make a note to use reclaim for failed ones. Currently spinning my wheels though, i don't know how long this will last.
The crafting grind
Printable View
-
09-13-2015, 06:00 AMTrain88
-
09-13-2015, 06:10 AMTrain88
I'm wondering though, put yourself in the dev shoes, what would you ask them to do about 2 star crafting?
For sure i would like crafting to keep up with the new raid gear. That or make interesting glamors like the augmented sets. A point for whatever grind they put us through. Right now you're not even rewarded with crafting gear as you need the gear to make it. If i wanted money i'd be selling leveling gear like someone else said.
Right now the most expensive red script item is 26 tokens and the cheapest is 7. I see 2 possibilities here: Either change the token cost from 50 script to 40 script making costs 1300 -> 1040 and 350 -> 280, or reduce the number of tokens needed for the most expensive item or two. like maybe 20 tokens for the weapon making it 1000 red scripts. There is also the foil to make so it would still be difficult, just less time consuming. It would also be more forgiving on failed attempts. -
09-13-2015, 06:14 AMWhocareswhatmynameis
The conterfoil really aren't difficult though. if you get all HQ items, that gives you 4000 of the 5900 collectability you need for it, it would be hard to NOT be able to get an extra 1900 quality through touches.
-
09-13-2015, 06:30 AMTrain88
Didn't know hq mats helped, anyway...
This is the last post i'll make in this thread. I have the master 3 for weaver, leatherworker, goldsmith and carpenter.
The 2 star crafts are not interesting.
Bad glamors at best, the weaver 1 star weaver glamors are more interesting. the 2 star weaver healing body and the 1 star look exactly the same. Item level is 180, not 190. Even if HQed it's not good enough to compare with raid gear. Only interesting thing was the crafting gear and you need the crafting gear to craft it.
I see zero point in making 2 star crafting.
Peace. -
09-13-2015, 07:07 AMFoxyArekuI'm still so confused as to how anyone could fail the crafts that get selected for red scrips, do you need rotation help? I could offer some pointers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Train88
-
09-13-2015, 07:54 AMAdrasteiaIt's easy if one or more of the following is true:Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
1) You don't have Byregot's.
2) You don't have HQ materials.
3) You don't have HQ level 60 gear.
3) You get multiple Hasty Touch failures. With no melds, full HQ gear, no HQ components, and HQ Onion Soup, I can miss about three Hasty Touches total before I slip under the 4000 collectability threshhold. (I think 3 missed puts me at about 4049~ collectability or thereabouts). -
09-13-2015, 08:05 AMFoxyArekuWell yeah but for the 1 and 3 you shouldn't be worrying about red scrips in the first place until you fix that. >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrasteia
It's just I'm able to do all the red scrip turn ins really easily even on classes that are wearing nothing but level 60 gear unmelded with no HQ materials in the synth. It's just kinda baffling, maybe they don't have byregot's blessing or gear though. -
09-13-2015, 08:39 AMAdrasteiaI mean... even with the above-mentioned conditions, I still am reliant on Quick Synthesis to actually get to the threshhold, and that 80% failure rate starts to add up fast. It's by no means easy, even if you're crazy enough to get CRP up to 50 and have enough money to afford HQ right out of the gate.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
-
09-13-2015, 09:05 AMSuggestion
I'm just nearing lvl 40 across my DoL and DoH. I gotta say after reading this thread, it does little to boost my confidence that putting in so much time apparently is worth the effort. Not to say i haven't had fun lvling to 40 though.
-
09-13-2015, 09:10 AMWhocareswhatmynameisYeah I think you either find it fun or you don't. For me they jacked up the combat side so bad, that crafting is the only thing I enjoy right now. I really want to challenge myself and make the HQ 2star gear and see what kind of 3 star crafts they come out with later. If it wasn't for crafting, i probably wouldn't play at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suggestion
-
09-13-2015, 10:26 AMGalactimus
It really just sounds like a gear problem.
Crafting 4000 collectability hand-in's is almost as easy as synthing two star food in 2.0. You can use the most basic rotations in the world to hit 4000 Collectability.
I'm getting 5100 Collectability on Red Scrip hand-in items just using a generic 100% success macro rotation. No "Good"s, no Hasty Touches, no HQ ingredients, no two star Blue Gear. Its nothing more than 5 Basic Touches and your usual Byregot's Finisher. Progress can be completed with Ingenuity II and four Careful Synthesis. (Just toss in a Waste Not so it doesn't cost 40 Durability.)
If you can't hit 4,000 every time you need to increase your control. Try an FC buff, Seafood Stew, some melding, or a Hasty Touch rotation for higher Inner Quiet stacks. These red scrip hand-ins really are one of the simplest things they've thrown at crafters thus far. -
09-13-2015, 10:54 AMMN_14
I don't think the scrip turn ins are supposed to be difficult at all since they're simply normal mass produced crafts. It shouldn't be too hard to reach 100% quality, although if you're using the level 55 gear, you might want to use some HQ materials if your control stat is too low. It also helps if you can increase your CP to around 400 with food.
In general, the turn ins are designed to simply be a routine weekly grind and are considerably easier than previous requirements for master recipe books (1+2), the artisan's mainhands, and the lucis tools. -
09-13-2015, 10:58 AMImDingDing
"Crafting has been my whole game for months now"
I am suprised it took you that long. Took me 2 months for all 1-50 and 10 days for all 50-60 with limited funding and a RL full time job. I can only guess you are in a small server where mats are very very expensive.
And this a MMO, everything is grindy, shouldnt be anything new. -
09-13-2015, 11:21 AMFoxyArekuI dunno specific numbers but having all HQ materials gets you like 3k quality right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrasteia
There's just no way I can see something that doesn't even require you to get 100% on quality difficult. -
09-14-2015, 12:20 AMGilthasThe grind isn't in leveling up DoL/DoH, it's when you get to 60 that it gets bad (badly planned mat requirements from 50-60 and bloated recipees nonwithstanding). The effort required to do something as simple as daily GC deliveries is simply stupid. It's a goddamn job now instead of a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImDingDing
It's inevitable that MMOs will have some form of grind. But there is also a thing called "too much grind". Gathering and Crafting are far too time-consuming and they were changed to this crap to appease greedy players that wanted SE to push away all of their competition so they could jack up prices on the MB.
Gathering and Crafting should be about players making their own gear with a reasonable amount of effort. It shouldn't be about a small percentage of players draining everyone else out of their gil. -
09-14-2015, 12:52 AMHakuroDK
Just to throw my two cents in, the ONLY piece of red scrip gear I have ever purchased was the Millkeep's Saw. That's it. Every other piece of gear I have is crafted from favor mats. Max melded astral birch jewelry, a few extra Craftsmanship materia to meet the cap on certain crafts, and I can 2-star craft on BSM without ever having to touch red scrip gear for BSM.
The problem is that too many people seem to be way too afraid of even attempting favors.
The only trouble is that I botched an Adamantite Ingot craft three times in a row, which is QUITE discouraging, but I'm gonna take a short break and get back to it. -
09-14-2015, 08:06 PMMature
I think the problem right now with crafting 2 star stuff is very limited per week. If I'm right you can only craft up to 2 or 3 pieces ilvl170 per week (IF you gather everything by yourself. Excluding MB). Depending of what you gonna make. And that is what puts me off from crafting at the moment. If you fail all the recipes you basically stuck until next reset (a week). Unless you wanna blow Astronomicals amounts of money on MB for Mats you can get for free.
My solution for this should making red scrips reset as a daily thing , a bit like ehcanti stuff Ixali quest. This is just to help the MB to flow so they are price accessible for all.
The other solution is to chop by half the amount of items you need to turn in for key mats like purify coke (5 red oodis 5 wyverns warts) -
09-14-2015, 08:54 PMAeyisThat's probably because you did it now, when the materials were cheap. Regardless tho, if you did 50-60 in 10 days then you got a lot of spare time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImDingDing
Ofcourse they would be. I just did one set and got 7 materials. Not exactly very promising for the remaining favors. If someone new to favors got a yield like that they would very likely stop doing them at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
-
09-14-2015, 09:23 PMHakuroDKTo be fair, that is an extremely rare result, as someone who has been doing favors for weeks now. For a stack of 5 favors, I've seen an average of 12-15 materials, which is more than enough, and sometimes as many as 20, but that is just as rare as a result of 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
That's like trying to craft endgame stuff, failing to do so, then refusing to do crafting ever again.
If you fall off the chocobo, you have to get right back on. -
09-14-2015, 11:18 PMAeyisIts not as rare as you make it out to be. The material types have extremely unbalanced spawning locations. For some the distance between [of one pair] nodes is almost as much as the distance between [of different pair] nodes.Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
''Oh it only happens sometimes'' That's nice. But that doesnt help anything to restore the morale of someone that did just get few items. RNG (and it having extreme outlayers) is one of the main reasons why not many people do favors.
You also can't just take the cheap way out and call it ''set of favors''. No, you do not get items per ''set of favors''. You get them per favor. -
09-15-2015, 12:18 AMNyalia
Honestly, endgame crafting has NEVER been about making money in FFXIV. The money for crafters has always been in selling materials to endgame crafters, selling glamour items that require rare materials but are easy to craft, or selling mid-level gear in large quantities. You can do 2* crafts with all white gear. (It helps significantly to have HQ Seafood Stew though, but the rotation I have works with NQ.) The requirements are high, but not THAT high. The melds only cost me 1-2 million, and if that's a lot of money for you, you can sell a couple red gathering and red crafting scrip tokens. I could make millions right now for just three red crafting scrips without losing a single red gathering scrip by just buying the HQ two star mats with the random items I've gotten while going for NQ two star mats.
The thing is, endgame crafting in FFXIV has always been aimed at the people who enjoy the crafting minigame. There doesn't need to be a point to the top crafting gear besides having it - it, by itself, is a goal that's fun to work toward. The grind isn't even that hard - people are making it out to be much worse than it is. It takes about an hour one day a week to max red crafting scrips. You wait until there's a starred item worth 40-50 for max quality and then make 9-12 of them. That's like, ~20 aurum regis and ~20 birch lumber, usually, which is only about 330k if you don't gather it yourself. Gathering is a longer grind, but you only need to hit 15 nodes throughout the week to max on average ((2+(0.6-2*(0.3)^2+2*(0.3)^2))*12*15=468). That's a little over seven pairs, which means one per day (takes 6-9 minutes per day) is about enough.
The only part that's a true grind is getting the blue gathering scrips for the tomes. 5,000 blue scrips per tome is kinda absurd. But, really, it's no worse than the lucis grind. That was ~66 nodes per lucis. To get the MIN and BTN lucis, it was ~132 nodes. This is 4950/(2.6*60) = ~32 nodes per book. For every book (MIN+BTN), it's ~192 nodes. But, the nodes come twice as often as the Lucis nodes, but it's hard/expensive to hit both and still get both red scrip nodes. Doing one node a day following your red scrip node pair and without using a cordial, that's one book per month. With a cordial, it's every two weeks. And that's with only hitting one node per day.
The real grind is caused by the sheer number of moving parts, but each part isn't that bad.
But, I do have some issues with the system. My biggest problem is that if you fail the final synth, you lose absurd amounts of time and effort. I dread DCing during one of those synths! And then there's the fact that 3.0 endgame crafting *requires* you to have all crafts and gatherers at 60. I really wish they made it so you didn't have to be an omnicrafter/gatherer, or rewarded not being an omni, but instead, they significantly increased reliance on being able to do everything. You can't turn in BTN favor materials for items without also having MIN favor materials. All endgame BSM synths require endgame CRP or LTW synths. Red gatherer scrip items are useless without red crafter scrips to turn them into materials. While yes, you can find people who are willing to trade you MIN for BTN items or vice versa 1 for 1 if you both don't have the other class, what about people who don't have any endgame gathering but want to do endgame crafting? They're totally SoL. I know plenty of people who hate gathering but love crafting, but no one who hates crafting but loves gathering.
Also, I really hope they don't release any new crafting equipment from now until 4.0, because the grind is so hard, it'll be demoralizing if they release better gear after just a couple months that invalidates it =\ I mean, yes, there eventually will be better gear, but this stuff should last us through 4* level 60 items. I've worked toward the blue gear since 3.0 came out, and just made my first one last night. -
09-15-2015, 12:21 AMHakuroDKWell either I have really really good luck with favors or people try a single favor and complain that they got under the average yield, generalizing the entirety of favors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
...and I'm certainly not taking the cheap way out by using a set of favors. 1 Red Gathering Scrip Token buys 5 favors. That's why I used that logic. On average, you should be getting more than 10 items per set of favors.
If you want to break that down per favor, that's two items per favor that you need to get bare minimum in order to reach the items necessary to get the materials from the splendors vendor. In only one favor out of at least 60-70 favors I have done have I ever gotten only one item out of a single favor. More often than not, I get anywhere between 3-4 items per favor, which is far more than I actually need, so I am able to get as many as three favor-related crafting mats for every two stacks because of that.
People are so afraid of RNG being against them, which is my ultimate point, that the sheer lack of people actually doing favors is causing the entire market to inflate to obscene levels. Because people are too afraid of not getting a full stack of 10 items per stack of favors (or at least 2 items per favor), the price of base materials are in the millions. And I hate that. Even as a crafter/gatherer who takes full advantage of favors, I hate the fact that you can't spend less than 1.5 million on Balmung for a single Adamantite Ingot. -
09-15-2015, 01:10 AMMatureJust bumping this bit cause you completely spot on with issues with crafting. Hope they\\'re actually looking into this. Imagine failing polished adamantite file (2 adamantite ingots and 1 Griffin leather) that will put me off from making more, SPECIALLY having to wait a week to get another one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
-
09-15-2015, 01:25 AMAeyisYou got below average yield, which leads me to believe your experience isnt that much. (not enough to average out) Average is set around 3.5, altho that does to some extend depend on the type of item you are gathering.Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
Ofcourse you are. 7 might seem like a fine number when you call it a ''set''. But you dont farm these by activating a set. You farm them per single favor. In which case the yield (in my example) would be 2,1,1,1,2. Or 3 yields of 1, and 2 of 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
In addition, this was obtained with high route efficiency. Someone new to doing favors would more likely have obtained something like 1,0,0,1,1.
No. Because you also need to have both mining and botany types. Meaning that you need on average 4 items to break even. (2 red gathering tokens per 2 red crafting tokens)Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
They call it RNG.Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
People are afraid of doing them for good reason. Because it's all too possible to draw the short end stick. And unlike myself most people will not have 50+ red gathering tokens they can use to obtain the materials they need. They will only have 9 if they just started out.Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
Melds are significantly higher depending on your servers economy. I do not envy anyone that has to meld when Command IVs are selling for 150-180k. Red scrips equipment makes it somewhat easier for anyone that opted to go for those first. With the disadvantage being it only made it easier for one class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
Not hard, but time-consuming. And it is. Not because of favors, not because of red crafting scrips, not because of red gathering scrips, not because of Aethersand, not because gathering materials for red crafting scrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
But because you need to do all of those. Each week. In addition to your normal activities.
Because of the weekly caps on red scrips you either do the mandatory grind or fall behind. -
09-15-2015, 01:33 AMNyalia
Also, to the people commenting on the number of items from the favor system - the average is 3. I've had runs of 1. I've also had runs of SIX. Last night, with three favors, I managed to get 14.
A few tricks - if a concealed node appears before the favor runs out, that node will stay. You don't have to mine the item itself before the favor runs out. If there are enemies in the area, watch for them as you fly to a node pair. If they are close to one node and facing the node, go to the other one first. Don't dismount until you are CERTAIN they aren't aggroed on you, and stealth immediately. Always mount immediately following the end of a gather. If an enemy is too close to a normal node and you don't think you can get to it without landing a ways off and slowly stealthing in, forget that node and go on to the next pair. The time to get to the next pair is less than the time it'll take you to deaggro, stealth in, or wait for the enemy to turn around. If you DO aggro, sprint to another node pair (or the other node of the current pair if it is undepleted and far enough away).
Having your choco out in tank stance is a double-edged gunblade. One the one hand, your choco can distract something that aggros on you, allowing you to harvest safely. On the other hand, you can't mount until your choco gets out of combat, so you're probably better off immediately deaggroing anyway, and deaggroing can be hard if your choco is in combat.
Also, for the Hinterlands BTN spot, when you're doing the node pairs near the raised platform, land on the platform above the node, stealth, and drop down. That way, you never have to worry about which way the enemies are facing, and while you mine, you can look around and see if you need to remain stealthed to get to the second node of the pair, or if you can destealth safely.
I've heard of people pre-depleting nodes so they are all one hit from being depleted before activating the favor. I tried this a bit, but I've NEVER found an item this way. Unless someone has successfully done this, I'm going to assume that if you access a node before activating the favor, that node won't count. -
09-15-2015, 01:43 AMNyaliaFirst of all, you don't need to overmeld any IVs. You don't even need to pentameld everything. My melds have only a CP 3 and a CP 1 in the primary and offhand tools and nothing else. Heck, my melds have 30 more CP than the rotation I was using recommends, and that's with all white HQ and no overmelded IVs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
Second, if you get one red scrip item for the correct class/classes, you can use it to make a crafted item for another class that makes it easier, and so on, so none of your crafts have to be with all white if you don't want to. It doesn't help much since the most useful item is craftable-only (the offhand), but you can do it.
And lastly, you don't need to do any of those. How could you possibly "fall behind"? Are you competing with someone for the first person to get max gear? As was said, there's no money in it. There's nothing worth making that's two star, you can already make them with pure white, and even if they do release stuff that does require the new crafted items, it won't be profitable. Endgame crafts never are. There's so much to do every week as you said, so you shouldn't hit the caps anyway. If the caps are slowing you down, that's one thing, but that's not what you're saying. You're saying that you can't go fast enough to keep up with the caps. That means that if the caps weren't present, you'd still do exactly the same amount of stuff as you're currently doing. In fact, if the caps weren't there, I'd bet most people wouldn't feel pressure to hit cap and thus would do a ton less and be less far along.
Either the caps are a problem because they're too low, or the caps aren't a factor because they're too high. You can't complain about both at the same time. -
09-15-2015, 02:44 AMSynestraMaterials sells decently but the items made from those not so much, most players are rather poor so its no wonder your 14mil+ items wont sell even tho that is more than resonable price for said item when you count in the mat cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Train88
-
09-15-2015, 04:09 AMMN_14I do this and can confirm that it definitely works. I've even gotten 4 concealed nodes in a row once. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
-
09-15-2015, 04:16 AMLineageRazorWhile I've not attempted depleting ALL the nodes before I get started, I routinely start by finding the "gathering attempts +1" node, working it down to the last hit, and then popping my favor. I can guarantee you that this can successfully produce a concealed node, as it has done so for me several times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
Now that you mention the idea, though, maybe I SHOULD pre-deplete more than just that one node; at the very least, I should do the other node in the pairing. -
09-15-2015, 08:00 AMAeyisYou must have some pretty amazing melds then. I was fully melded apart from tools and I was still missing some control. I'm going to assume you used control/craftmanship food and/or buffs then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
One item will barely make a difference if you are just into 2* crafting range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
In addition, not everyone has all 8 crafting classes, or cares to make 2* items in the order of: BSM;CRP;WVR
Now you are just arguing for the sake of it. If you want the gear, it's really as simple as ''you dont get scrips a week, it takes you a week longer''. There is a weekly cap. If you dont hit that cap you fall behind. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
Friend of mine didnt get her mining tool this week, I asked her why:
-Because she was just short of the cap one week so she has to wait another week now.
Because having weekly caps means you cant catch up. Period.
Are you competing with someone for the first person to get max gear? As was said, there's no money in it. [/quote]
I let it pass before, but very well. There has always been money in ''endgame crafting''. Big money, perhaps even the most. I have no idea how you believe this wasnt the case.
No, that's exactly what I am saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
If the caps werent there it would be possible to catch up, and thus making it impossible to fall behind. There would be no pressure, and no limit for those that want to invest the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
If the caps werent here I might actually bother to play, so no I wouldnt be ''doing the exact same amount of stuff''
Ofcourse I can. Perhaps you just don't understand, but it's like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
-Not enough red scrips per week, limiting what you can do.
-The amount of red scrips that we do get requires high time investment each week.
-The amount of red scrips have to be obtained or you fall behind. There is no catching up. There is no way to decrease the [amount of weeks needed]
It's that simple.
That is correct. After the reduction in favor time/faster spawn rate on concealed nodes, it became pretty easy to test that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_14
-
09-15-2015, 08:06 AMNyalia
Thank you both for the confirmation! After it didn't work for me ~six times in a row, I gave up because it seemed like a waste of time. But, if that works, that's a great plan. Remember you can't do all six because the first two will reset when you hit the third pair. So, you can pre-deplete one pair, go to the next pair, pre-deplete them, pop your favor, deplete that pair, fly back to the first pair you pre-depleted, and go from there.
Aeyis: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RLGQ
Those are the melds I used. And yes, it does use HQ Seafood Stew.
And this is the rotation I used: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Materials-Gear
EDIT: Also, if you're having trouble hitting the cap every week on red scrips, why are you doing favor item gathering? The only weekly stuff is the red scrips themselves. Using them isn't capped. You can just stockpile red scrip tokens until you have the time to spend them later. If you're having trouble keeping up and want to make up the time later, just do the red scrip stuff, which takes about 10 minutes a day for gathering, plus an hour a week for crafting. Capping Eso is just half an hour a day, six days a week, and capping Alex Normal is just an hour once a week. All told, that's not very much time. We're talking ~6.5 hours a week, so like, an hour a day. I'll bet you play significantly more than that.... -
09-15-2015, 05:10 PMAeyisPersonally I only do it on certain node spawns (the ones that are particular far away). That said, I have the benefit of 50~ odd tokens left so I'm not very worried about being short on materials. It's definately a good idea to do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
Yeah I expected it would be easier to do now. So I suppose it's become somewhat easier to reach comfortable levels for crafting if you know the CP requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
I don't, as I have a lot of spare time. That said, I can see how people that also want to do battle content like raiding or leveling, and/or don't spend that much time on the game might have an issue with doing all that's required for 2* crafting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
That said, even for those with the time; if you are forced to do something on a daily or weekly basis it becomes a chore and as a result harder to do.
It's possible to catch up on favors if you collected the red scrips, yes. Altho it's just transfering the time investment, but yes. Not using them this week just means you have to spend all that time later. The time adds upQuote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
, untill round and round it goes and you got a wormhole.
I'm bit a special case with my 50 tokens. Since I won't be spending any of them on myself there's zero need for me to use them all.
And that's a good thing too. Even with the new favor duration 250 favors would still take about 20 hours to complete.
If you're having trouble keeping up and want to make up the time later, just do the red scrip stuff, which takes about 10 minutes a day for gathering, plus an hour a week for crafting. Capping Eso is just half an hour a day, six days a week, and capping Alex Normal is just an hour once a week. All told, that's not very much time. We're talking ~6.5 hours a week, so like, an hour a day. I'll bet you play significantly more than that....[/QUOTE]
I do. But then I also don't do esoterics, or Alex. Running all 4 parts of Alex is probably a bit longer then an hour (depending on drops and roll), but I can't say I'm that experienced with it. Red scrips gathering isnt as simple as ''x hours investment'' due to the time windows. As well as available classes.
But let's say it's indeed 6.5 hours per week.
If my experience in wow teaches me anything, it's that people really, really hate doing things daily/weekly. Would they do it less if they didnt have to? Perhaps. But they would also enjoy it more.
Lets say someone only has an hour to play on one day. But then they would have to do that hour of mandatory ''work''. I think most would rather do something fun instead, no?