I hope Yoshi-P will not listen to all those immature requests.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Why do you think balancing PVP will affect PVE in a NEGATIVE way? Why can't i be positive? PVP will bring more balancing, even monthly balancing. But that is hardly a bad thing. It will only ensure no class is overly more powerful.... well some class would be weak vs some but strong others, like in water vs fire vs earth vs wind... some they each have a weakness but are strong vs another.

My point is it will benefit PVE too because like that no 1 class will emerge as best for PVE and that all players will need to use abilities from that class if not they wont be invited to a party or wont make a good enough tank etc... exactly what happened to FF XI.

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Changes classes on a monthly basis like WoW does is reason enough to keep PvP as far away from FF14 as possible.

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Originally Posted by Marious

Some people like PVP others don't, there are tons of games out there that have PVP and they do fine, but a lot of people that dont want PVP come play FF games. SE is not catering to PVP enthusiast it has always been about PVE for them, though I dont know what happen to XIV I mean there really is hardly any PVE to begin with :( still though why do people insist in PVP being added when it is available elsewhere? And same for jumping, I dont care if its there or not but people tend to act like idiots when it is, I have acted like an idiot with it in other games and I have seen thousand do the same...

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SE wants FF XIV to be #2 next to WOW as far as user base and the type of players they reach. They will end up being a niche with sub 1mil users if they listen to people saying dont add this dont add that and Yoshi-p is bitting into it apparently.

A good mmo is a game that has something for everyone. You can have PVP and everything else you want and yet not penalize those who don't want it. There is many way of doing it and other games like WOW are a in your face example of how it is done. i'll gladly agree with someone who doesn't want PVP if they give me one good and intelligent argument. The game is designed for PVE is not good enough... PVP is easy to add, especially in the state the game is currently in where the developpers are almost redoing everything from scratch.....

Man I am super late to the party but, found it funny the Title of the topic, and then I read half the OP... Well Done Sir. Well Done. I'll see myself out.

People are coming up with many good reasons not to add it you just are refusing to acknowledge that they are good ideas, Onidemon.

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Originally Posted by Dalmore

Because even if they have a PvP dedicated server its still means they will have to balnace every class inthis game. make every class able to kill any other class. so healers will have crazy dmg, support classes will have crazy dmg, tanks will have crazy dmg do i need to go on?. If you want PvP why are you playing FF14? FF series is about grouping up to get something done not killing each other. if you want that go play 1 of the thousands of other mmos out there.

tell me one thing that PvP wil or could accomplish in this game.... besides somethign to do,bring in more PvP players.
most people in the mmo community never expected or think FF14 is a "PvP" game.

I mean seriously how would it fit? Races hate each other? thats used to death. but why do they hate each other when FF games are about saving the world from something "BIG".

Like I said Spot yea thats fine. but open world PvP equals some sort of hate for other races, factions so on. LL hate grid now? sorry would never fit into a FF game.

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A healing priest in WOW cannot kill anything.... you got PVP gear, Specs(talent trees) and abilities/spells(mostly coming from the talent tree) that enables your class to PVP. So no....WOW has PVP and even open world PVP yet they did not make Preist have crazy damage.. just crazy healing. That my friend is how you balance a mmo.

Game balancing issues effecting people who choose not to participate in PvP is the only argument you really need. It is a good and intelligent argument regardless of if you choose to acknowlege it as such.

By the way open world PvP in WoW is considered by 99% of WoW players to be dead now.

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Originally Posted by Jibe

People are coming up with many good reasons not to add it you just are refusing to acknowledge that they are good ideas, Onidemon.

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if you read my replies to those good ideas you will understand why they are valid replies... i answered why monthly balancing doesnt mean it is a bad thing.

I answer why "i dont want to be killed why question" with "they can add a PVP flag u can turn on and off" ...

The game is designed for PVE... yet other games that start as PVE added PVP along the way... im not 100% sure but i believe WOW did not have PVP when they started? correct me if im wrong...

The state the game is in where the developer is changing everything even up to map designs means that yes they can add PVP....

What other valid reasons not to add PVP was given and that i missed?

PVP huh?...hmmm....no, i actually play FFXIV to get AWAY from PVP games, as for jumping....meh, will be fun to play around with but as for a "need" for it i don't know..

It seems that the majority of people posting in this thread are against PvP. Go Majority!

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

if you read my replies to those good ideas you will understand why they are valid replies... i answered why monthly balancing doesnt mean it is a bad thing.

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Explain to me why having my PvE balance druid's insta-root glyph nerfed to oblivion because of PvP is not a bad thing?

Edit: I don't really want to debate WoW game mechanics here. It's just the first example that leapt to mind of PvP mechanics impacting my PvE game on a PvE server.

Others are immature because they disagree with you?

I don't think they're the ones who are immature here.

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Originally Posted by Jibe

Game balancing issues effecting people who choose not to participate in PvP is the only argument you really need. It is a good and intelligent argument regardless of if you choose to acknowlege it as such.

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I mentioned that game balancing is not a bad thing. Balancing= always good... thats why it is part of the reality of every mmo, being PVE or PVP....

Ok they nerf some spell from gladiators because they rape anything around in PVP. It is not as drastic as you may think and it does not affect PVE as badly as you claim. WOW nerfs spells and classes all the time to accomodate PVP, yet i dont see anyone who prefers to do Raids quit the game. When i played, i saw those changes every month and towards the end i didnt do much PVP anymore and never logged in and was like "WTF, why am i so weak all of a sudden in my PVE content?"

There is balancing and there is smart balancing... you think that when they modify a class they will not take the PVE factor in consideration? You my friend have very little faith in SE.. i cant blame u tho'...

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

What other valid reasons not to add PVP was given and that i missed?

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Mine for open-world PVP and it was like 2-3 posts down from the OP.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Why do you think balancing PVP will affect PVE in a NEGATIVE way? Why can't i be positive? PVP will bring more balancing, even monthly balancing. But that is hardly a bad thing. It will only ensure no class is overly more powerful.... well some class would be weak vs some but strong others, like in water vs fire vs earth vs wind... some they each have a weakness but are strong vs another.

My point is it will benefit PVE too because like that no 1 class will emerge as best for PVE and that all players will need to use abilities from that class if not they wont be invited to a party or wont make a good enough tank etc... exactly what happened to FF XI.

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PvP didn't make cookie cutter jobs a requirement for FFXI, that fact that you needed a party to progress farther than Valks did. That fact that people wanted to the the most exp per hour did. Now as for how balancing /nerfing can be viewed as a positive eh... While I'm all in favor of no one being super powerful I can't see how having a Tank or Healer put up the same numbers as a DD as being a positive. What would be the reason for having separate classes then. Why not just make one class and give everyone all the abilities. And before you say well isn't that what we have now. No it isn't. Just because you can steal abilities from one job to the next doesn't mean that we don't have well defined class rolls. And if you don't believe me take all the Conjure Healing spells and try to main heal as a Gladiator.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Balancing= always good

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This, my friend, is false.

I am against open world PVP but I don't see any problem with dictating PVP servers where this would apply and just give people the chance to transfer into it. AoC is doing something like this but is making people start over to participate in the new pure pvp server.

I'm actually very much for PvP and PvP events. I just want them to be in controlled spaces, like arenas and such. Arenas and coliseums have been present in FF before, there's no reason to not bring 'em back in a big way this time.

I am also however very much against open PvP due to the player mentality it creates. People griefing other players and the possibility for general asshat behavior. The idea of Final Fantasy is to be coming together to save the world, not be dicks to each other. Save that for the FPS flavor of the week.

PvP arena fights...sure, but open world PvP no thanks.

Most annoying thing in WoW's PvP was the self-proclaimed "Elite" players spammin challenges to a "Duel" PvP, and if that wasnt enough, some complete moron of the opposite clan decided to overkill you while you were out trying to do a Quest.
And when you finally arrive at your defeated body, the moron is still there...camping your corpse, waiting... for you to resurrect.

No thanks, my WoW days are over for good, thank god.

All the nay sayers(im assuming) are having a problem grasping actually HOW this would happen WITHOUT affecting PvE or causing major issues with balance. The WoW recent approach was they kinda split certain abilities(like the CC ones) and lowered their duration and others having decreased effects. That however might be easier said than done in a PvE based game. Also because WoW system is a lot more restricting than our current and future Armory System. Their talent trees also are split because the PvPers choose the best PvP options and vice versa. If this could be explained you might be able to persuade them.

edit: I'm all for arena fights though. Open World PvP not so much(even though It can be fun).

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Originally Posted by Jibe

I wasn't advocating auto-jump, I was saying that there would be certain "hot-spots" that would allow jump to function if you pressed the button. A hot spot would be pretty much any obstacle you might jump over such as a ledge, shrub etc. where you were within 10 feet of it or something like that.

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As per Yoshi-P's reply in the Jap forums.. the Jump feature will probably be exactly as you described it. Semi-freedom is better then no freedom i guess.

wow I don't know how i double posted when i added that line but my bad

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Originally Posted by Akumu

All the nay sayers(im assuming) are having a problem grasping actually HOW this would happen WITHOUT affecting PvE or causing major issues with balance. The WoW recent approach was they kinda split certain abilities(like the CC ones) and lowered their duration and others having decreased effects. That however might be easier said than done in a PvE based game. Also because WoW system is a lot more restricting than our current and future Armory System. Their talent trees also are split because the PvPers choose the best PvP options and vice versa. If this could be explained you might be able to persuade them.

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My main's a priest. My dual spec is PvE Disc/PvP Disc. I have two completely separate sets of gear. And PvP balancing still has entirely too much negative impact on the PvE game.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

All the nay sayers(im assuming) are having a problem grasping actually HOW this would happen WITHOUT affecting PvE or causing major issues with balance. The WoW recent approach was they kinda split certain abilities(like the CC ones) and lowered their duration and others having decreased effects. That however might be easier said than done in a PvE based game. Also because WoW system is a lot more restricting than our current and future Armory System. Their talent trees also are split because the PvPers choose the best PvP options and vice versa. If this could be explained you might be able to persuade them.

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That would be hard to explain to all those against PVP because at this moment the future of the armory or any game mechanics could be anything.... They redesigning pretty much everything and Yoshi-p has yet to give us a clear explanation on how thing will work in the future.

I could say like "wow is doing it this way" just like you described but watch all the replies coming saying "we don't want a wow clone". Neither do i...but i still think PVP could work and even be very fun if done correctly.

My motto is the more features the better the game will be. Assuming these features were properly done in the first place.

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As per Yoshi-P's reply in the Jap forums..

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Onidemon just a word of advice; that abbreviation you used may be considered offensive. Not saying thats how you meant it - just saying.

I'm not one to care for PVP, if added a place you can register for PVP evnets sure...why not, knock yourselfs out, but its when i have no choice but to PVP when i'm trying to get stuff done that the problem begins

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Originally Posted by Jibe

This, my friend, is false.

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Sorry you are right. Let me rephrase.

Proper intelligent balancing= always good! :)

We need to go with as little balancing as possible cause its usually not proper or intelligent :) The less chances for SE to mess things up with bad balancing the better.

iJust thought about something.... Yoshi-P said there will be PVP for sure right? But just no open world PVP. (Taking this from one of his posts in the forums)

I mean even if we fight in arenas and instanced environments or in some PVP areas. We still fighting and killing each other right? Then balancing it is still needed to make sure that no one class raises above everything else.....

So now that we know that PVP will be there for sure.... and a PVP on/off flag preventing people from being killed when they don't want to. We also know that PVP balancing cannot be avoided since SE said there will be PVP. What exactly is stopping open world PVP?(keep in mind the arguments i gave above as in the flag)

Did he say there will for sure be PvP? I was unable to figure out exactly what he meant due to not reading japanese and google translate failure to make comprehensible sentences during translations.

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Originally Posted by Jibe

We need to go with as little balancing as possible cause its usually not proper or intelligent :) The less chances for SE to mess things up with bad balancing the better.

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We still need to give them a chance.... they could maybe do this right this time? Anyways bad balancing can always be fixed with more balancing. The truth is that even PVE only mmos are being constantly balanced to fix stuff, make up for new content, dungeons, monsters etc... PVP will just be another factor to consider when they are doing their balancing of the month meetings...

I'm willing to give PvP a chance. I'm just not advocating it. I will continue to play this game if they add PvP, I would just prefer it not to have it :)

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

That would be hard to explain to all those against PVP because at this moment the future of the armory or any game mechanics could be anything.... They redesigning pretty much everything and Yoshi-p has yet to give us a clear explanation on how thing will work in the future.

I could say like "wow is doing it this way" just like you described but watch all the replies coming saying "we don't want a wow clone". Neither do i...but i still think PVP could work and even be very fun if done correctly.

My motto is the more features the better the game will be. Assuming these features were properly done in the first place.

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I understand you and I'm not entirely against PvP myself but one thing I have to ask myself is... Can SE actually pull off a good/great BALANCED PvP system in a field they know little about? Maybe Yoshi-P is great in this area but i dont know...

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Originally Posted by Jibe

Did he say there will for sure be PvP? I was unable to figure out exactly what he meant due to not reading japanese and google translate failure to make comprehensible sentences during translations.

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Yes he did and that is not the only place where SE mentioned PVP coming to FF XIV for sure. I think he even mentioned in one of his letters replying to the player's poll.

It only makes sense since FF XI had some PVP in it. Since we know PVP will most likely be a reality of this game i just want to know what is stopping open world PVP? (consider PVP flag on/off.... just making sure pple remember this when answering lol)

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

iJust thought about something.... Yoshi-P said there will be PVP for sure right? But just no open world PVP. (Taking this from one of his posts in the forums)

I mean even if we fight in arenas and instanced environments or in some PVP areas. We still fighting and killing each other right? Then balancing it is still needed to make sure that no one class raises above everything else.....

So now that we know that PVP will be there for sure.... and a PVP on/off flag preventing people from being killed when they don't want to. We also know that PVP balancing cannot be avoided since SE said there will be PVP. What exactly is stopping open world PVP?(keep in mind the arguments i gave above as in the flag)

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Probably because of this:

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

...due to the player mentality it creates. People griefing other players and the possibility for general asshat behavior. The idea of Final Fantasy is to be coming together to save the world, not be dicks to each other. Save that for the FPS flavor of the week.

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You say you want duels. Go to the arena and have your fill.

It keeps going back to the same question: Why do you want open world PvP?

Malakhim makes a good point. Why should we have to keep trying to defend why we don't want it? You say you want it but you don't really say why. Do you want to grief people? Do you want it just because you think it will draw more players to the game? What is your reason for wanting open world PvP so much?

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Originally Posted by Akumu

I understand you and I'm not entirely against PvP myself but one thing I have to ask myself is... Can SE actually pull off a good/great BALANCED PvP system in a field they know little about? Maybe Yoshi-P is great in this area but i dont know...

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Yes that is that is the the biggest concern with PVP.... well we know that PVP will come in some form.. maybe arenas? we will see then if it is done right. If it sucks then they dont need to bother with open world PVP.... if it rocks, then open world PVP can be considered.

There will be NO PK he already said that so get off the whole Open world PvP kick

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Probably because of this:



You say you want duels. Go to the arena and have your fill.

It keeps going back to the same question: Why do you want open world PvP?

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Cuz i want to be a dick and camp Malakhim's ass :D lol

I was just looking at the player's poll. Why would SE choose to implement PvP if only such a small portion of people who took the poll even want PvP? %5.3 of people want to undertake PvP as a group, and %3.5 want to undertake it solo, according to people who answered the poll. That is VERY FEW people. Why would they even consider adding it if BARELY ANYONE WANTS IT TO BEGIN WITH?

Those numbers represent a niche playerbase. If SE wants to get as many subscribers as possible why are they focusing on a feature that is a niche?