YoshiP stated that MMOs are trending toward F2P

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Originally Posted by Daralii

You mean the same tactic every successful P2P MMO has used?

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Kind of my point isn't it.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Difference between F2P and P2P games.
P2P games = all are equal.
F2P games = those who pay will always be infront of you, no matter how much time you spend in game.
Also much more developers time go into creating cash shop content instead of valuable ingame content.

There are a few exceptions, but these games are usually mobas and stuff, not huge MMOs.

Sorry but I don't play games to grind for 1000 hours to be somehow close to wallet warriors.
If FFXIV ever goes F2P, I am gone and I am taking my friends with me.
If that happened you really couldn't expect the same patches pace as now, or maybe yes, but half of the patches would go into cash shop.

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All are equal? Those with the time to grind up their gear, crafting, and gathering are equal to those that don't?

You pay for it. You pay for it with "time" in a sub MMO - hey, they charge by the month; so not only are you losing RL money to the sub, you are losing RL time.

Developers like YoshiP and Blizzard attempt to ease this somewhat by "resetting" gear every patch and expansion, so you can "catch up" easily. However it also devalues the effort you put in - it will just be obsolete in a few months anyway, why bother?

I like the current flow of content coming from the FFXIV team, and I wouldn't want to mess with any formulas that could potentially tip the flow of that content out of balance. The way I see it, most F2P models revolve around gaining a large number of new customers for short amounts of time, which is why the options where you can pay for stuff is either timed where they expire, put in a gambling system, or is a service where you're literally paying them to take away hours of your play time away from you. Then of course, there's the gated inventories or character slots (Which technically we have through retainers, but the whole argument of "do you really need that much space" is for another thread). Subscription based models though keep both the in-game currency and value of end-game items from either dropping like stones or inflating endlessly. In this way, items like the gear upgrades found in Alexander Savage give a much more profound sense of achievement if you had to work for getting ready for it than if you could just buy item level 200 gear from the mog station and be ready to run Savage right after you hit 60. Granted, items do inflate, such as some of the crafter vanity gear, but that is because of their high demand and low stock. These items are rising naturally due to their difficulty to make and the fact that players are fully willing to dump millions of gil on them.

Subscription based models encourage the developers to create a constant stream of content where as F2P models revolve around creating new cash shop items. Imagine if they put all of the primal mounts into the cash shop instead of having them drop from Primal Extremes. Heck, you don't really even have to since they did it with Urth's Fount and Sleipnir. There was an outrage, because players want to actually play the game in order to get their items instead of just buying it casually with real money. I'm not worried though, especially since FFXI is still subscription based.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fantas...ations-of-fans i check gamescorn and this interview there is no mention desire to go to ftp. has op posted anything else

Just been...breezing around this thread.

I want to know what ass backwards F2P mmos you all are playing. I've seen a handful of f2p mmos that let the player buy gear in their cash shops, and guess what? They die. Really, really, fast. I'll be honest, I've spent way more time (and money) on F2Ps than I ever had on P2Ps, (barring XI from all this) and there are some more broken elements to cash shops, yes, but developers have long since realized that people do not enjoy p2w; creating one nowadays will easily spell death for a game. No matter how good it is.

I just don't get it. Do the people running around crying F2P is P2W really get what the items in said F2P cash shops even mean/do to the game and their economy? Or do they just see something and cry wolf?

Besides even if XIV went F2P (which it probably won't for a very, very, long time...since it isn't exactly far-fetched to say that a lot of F2P gamers tend to run uh...a less than optimal rig) I'm pretty sure that there is y'know, some people that are paying attention to what would and would not be acceptable, and it is extremely obvious these days that P2W is not acceptable anymore. Not to mention, making a P2P go F2P is usually a last resort to breathe life into your game (ala Tera) not to take a risky gamble because it kinda sorta might make more money. When XIV is on it's last leg, then is the time to go F2P, to renew interest with some giant overhaul etc etc.

But hell, half the people here think cosmetics are P2W, so what do I know.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

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Not saying you are wrong, but the "stream of content" comes in small patches and is consumed nigh instantaneously. The rest of the time, >80%, you are just grinding ... like a F2P MMO.

Vanity cash shop items aren't the only revenue stream for F2P BTW. You can pay to remove the grind too. Let's not forget that FFXIV is exploiting the former source of revenue too, so we aren't really gaining much.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

http://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fantas...ations-of-fans i check gamescorn and this interview there is no mention desire to go to ftp. has op posted anything else

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Where are you guys getting the impression that I'm saying that FFXIV is going F2P (or even advocating it)?

I'm just quoting YoshiP and stating that I somewhat agree with his very pragmatic PoV.

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Originally Posted by Justsomeguy

Just been...breezing around this thread.

I want to know what ass backwards F2P mmos you all are playing. I've seen a handful of f2p mmos that let the player buy gear in their cash shops, and guess what? They die. Really, really, fast. I'll be honest, I've spent way more time (and money) on F2Ps than I ever had on P2Ps, (barring XI from all this) and there are some more broken elements to cash shops, yes, but developers have long since realized that people do not enjoy p2w; creating one nowadays will easily spell death for a game. No matter how good it is.

I just don't get it. Do the people running around crying F2P is P2W really get what the items in said F2P cash shops even mean/do to the game and their economy? Or do they just see something and cry wolf?

Even if XIV went F2P (which it probably won't for a very, very, long time...since it isn't exactly far-fetched to say that a lot of F2P gamers tend to run uh...less than optimal equipment.) I'm pretty sure that there is y'know, some people that are paying attention to what would and would not be acceptable, and it is extremely obvious these days that P2W is not acceptable anymore.

But hell, half the people here think cosmetics are P2W, so what do I know.

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They are many ways to run a F2P game.

The worst are the short-lived "money games". These pop up, have players "race" against each other by paying money in an expensive game of one-upmanship then die pretty quickly as players realise it's a money game AND new players are hopelessly outmatched unless they pay a king's ransom the moment they start.

New players would rather try a just started up "money game" where they can be l33t without paying as much ... and the cycle repeats.

Been trying out Trove recently. The grind is really just to unlock classes, vanity items and a few trinkets (but what's the rush right?) - it's practically Minecraft Online; building crap is 50% of it, the other 50% is grinding mats and leveling up to grind mats (sounds familiar doesn't it).

forgive us for jump to think you state ffxiv going to ftp model. i review your orignal post i know yoshi p has for his interview 2013 is defend ptp because allow him add more content. true there trend for ftp. like many other player have states it just make lvling those game harder ie the old republic

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

All are equal? Those with the time to grind up their gear, crafting, and gathering are equal to those that don't?

You pay for it. You pay for it with "time" in a sub MMO - hey, they charge by the month; so not only are you losing RL money to the sub, you are losing RL time.

Developers like YoshiP and Blizzard attempt to ease this somewhat by "resetting" gear every patch and expansion, so you can "catch up" easily. However it also devalues the effort you put in - it will just be obsolete in a few months anyway, why bother?

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Are you saying puting time or money in game is equal?
In P2W MMOs, if you want to catch players who put money in the game, the time you have to put in the game is enormous (Lineage II, Archeage, Runes of Magic...). Sometimes it is even more than is possible for one single being and these people start using bots.

Also crafting and gathering in this game is strongly optional and fullmelded crafted gear is used mostly by people who are going for world firsts. Getting good gear in this game is a matter of putting a few hours weekly in it. Are you really comparing it to the F2P grindfest?

I have hard time finding anyone who doesn't have enough time to cap eso weekly and if there is someone, it is usually because of vacations or other stuf like that.

EDIT: In LII it took normal players even half year or more of mindless grind to get from 85 to 99, while some people had it in 1 - 2 months. How? Easy. Exp potions, stones that reset instances so you can run them more than once a day etc. Every F2P player argument is, that's not pay to win, that's something you can get too if you play the game for more time. Ok so, I put 10 hours a day to game, grind the same stuff for half year and when I get to players who have been on max level for so long, they are already fully geared while I am still wearing the same old stuff. Now I have to grind for next 3 months to catch to them and they have 3 more months to get infront of me.

There are only a few F2P games that let non-paying users catch up with wallet warriors.

I guarantee if FFXIV ever becomes F2P, weekly cap reset or expansion item will make it into cash shop too. ,)

I don't understand why would anyone in the world where 99% of games are F2P and most of them is P2W come to forums of P2P game and preach about F2P model.
82% of players stated that they don't want F2P model (it was poll made by SE, Yoshi mentioned it in interview), that's your answer.

Same company that runs Trove ran Archeage to the ground. I would have enjoyed Archeage so much more if it werent a greedy pit of cashsink.

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Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

Same company that runs Trove ran Archeage to the ground. I would have enjoyed Archeage so much more if it werent a greedy pit of cashsink.

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ArcheAge is a shining example of what's wrong with F2P model.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

ArcheAge is a shining example of what's wrong with F2P model.

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On the opposite there's also Path of Exile which is a excellent and fair F2P game, but it's a different genre of game.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

On the opposite there's also Path of Exile which is a excellent and fair F2P game, but it's a different genre of game.

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Yeah, I played it but it is hard to compare these genres as Path of Exile is kinda small game (compared to MMORPG).
For MOBAs it is also easy to come with good F2P model, I believe it is mostly because these games are much cheaper to develop and expand.

Whats more disgusting about F2P games is the combination of RNG and micro-transaction. It basically turns game into a huge casino that feeds on weak-willed human being, who cant stop themselves because they believe the next outcome will be better than the last.

Not saying this is the case with every f2p, but it is what i absolutely hate the most about a F2P game.

Every game I was in that started sub and went F2P I left. I honestly can't stand the F2P model. Some of those are shamelessly pay to win, and usually the community quality takes a nosedive. I'd quit playing FFXIV if it ever went F2P.

Instead of going completely F2P, I prefer the method EvE-online uses with it's PLEX.

F2P model would be ridiculous, imagine only 3 classes available to free members and you have to pay for the rest, the armoury system would be locked behind a pay wall, lvling, forget getting to 60 in a month it would take you a year or two unless you buy an XP POT, marketboards and all retainers would be behind a pay wall as well as inventory slots. The possibilities are endless, and you can kiss 3 month patches goodbye, they would be more focused on how to milk your wallet rather then content.

All I can say on this topic is.. a very powerful selling point for subscriptions in the past has always been a sort of "all inclusive environment". Meaning whatever is released content-wise you get it, because you pay a subscription monthly.

Now days even sub-based games have cash shops that they want to drain every last nickel they can from the player base. So to be honest.. I'm not sure what the benefits of a subscription based game are anymore. Quality of players? Not really. look around these forums, assholes have money too.

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Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

Whats more disgusting about F2P games is the combination of RNG and micro-transaction. It basically turns game into a huge casino that feeds on weak-willed human being, who cant stop themselves because they believe the next outcome will be better than the last.

Not saying this is the case with every f2p, but it is what i absolutely hate the most about a F2P game.

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Whilst I agree with you here.

The same can be said about people who don't enjoy the game paying a sub each month on FFXIV and also want every single item available on the Mogstation.

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Originally Posted by Fenwick

I remember a few years ago when people thought F2P was trending, I like how that worked out for all of those MMORPGs... Oh, wait.

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^Agreed,

NYoshida's comments - i think - is really a 'the grass is greener' statement that large PC/Console developers are also echoing. Large franchise console/PC games, MMO subs, they were already large investment, high risk, & tight profit margin business - and now mobile technology, smartphones tablets travel laptops etc are the frontier

It's (big)Gameloft and other studios that focus on mobile phone & tablet games that are having success. Candy Crush, Angry Birds, Solitaire, Video poker. The little dungeon crawlers.. Free to play, with micro transaction

That's where the money is at in game development right now. Console/PC business has a new friend at the table at they're taking the meat off the platter.

@Xenosan
The mobile gaming market isn't what it's cracked up to be. Yes, Angry Birds and Candy Crush did well, but their creators have never been able to recreate the same level of success. On top of which, it is a totally different ecosystem where Square Enix has zero brand recognition. Most of the general audience for "Candy Crush" aren't going to know what "Final Fantasy" is and will be scratching their head as to what Square Enix refers to.

Mobile gaming isn't a case of people seeing a game made by publisher X and know "oh, that's a good game I'll want to buy." They really don't care who makes the game. It's hundreds of indie devs throwing themselves into a high risk territory that is winning out over there.

“When there’s a F2P model, it goes like, ‘we sold this much for this month, but who knows how much we’ll sell next month,’ and also makes employment unstable. When that happens, the developers will also feel uneasy, and it makes it harder to draw the roadmap from there on.”

“In order to have costumers enjoy the game for longer periods of time, you’ll want to properly release content on a regular basis,” Yoshida says. “With that in mind, you’ll need a good development team, and in order to support that, a stable profit would be better.”

- Naoki Yoshida

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/03/25...ing-free-play/

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

You pay for it. You pay for it with "time" in a sub MMO - hey, they charge by the month; so not only are you losing RL money to the sub, you are losing RL time.

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I'ts a game. $15/month for hours and hours of fun in a game doesn't really qualify as "losing" money or time to... people who remember they're supposed to be playing a game. The subscription model is absolutely the best consumer-oriented value for the MMO product. Unfortunately, players have become all too willing to give up their rights and obligations as consumers in the name of worshiping a business's apparently holy "right" to profit. It no longer matters to them if something is good for them or not. Our society has become conditioned to accept horrible value and "just be happy with what you got".

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I'ts a game. $15/month for hours and hours of fun in a game doesn't really qualify as "losing" money or time to... people who remember they're supposed to be playing a game. The subscription model is absolutely the best consumer-oriented value for the MMO product. Unfortunately, players have become all too willing to give up their rights and obligations as consumers in the name of worshiping a business's apparently holy "right" to profit. It no longer matters to them if something is good for them or not. Our society has become conditioned to accept horrible value and "just be happy with what you got".

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But how are they extending the "fun"? Yupe, grinds.

As I have edited into the first post, since everyone seems to take it wrongly, it's just a realisation I had about how both sub and F2P MMOs use grinds "get money".

I used to think it's " the best consumer-oriented value for the MMO product" too. But with grinds and gating to drag out content (hold your subscription), a cash shop that offers rewards for money (cosmetic sure ... but rewards nonetheless), I can't help but feel the lines has blur considerably.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

I used to think it's " the best consumer-oriented value for the MMO product" too. But with grinds and gating to drag out content (hold your subscription), a cash shop that offers rewards for money (cosmetic sure ... but rewards nonetheless), I can't help but feel the lines has blur considerably.

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Oh I agree the line has blurred considerably. I don't think extensive cash shops belong in P2P MMOs. If a dev goes too long without content updates, then that's going to hurt them, too. But the reasons they're doing these things are because the mindset of F2P has already sunk in, even though the game is still sub-based. P2P MMO sees that cash shops make lots of profit in F2P games and decides to try it. Players eat it up and shout down protests as though a company has some god-given right to profit at the expense of the consumers they are supposedly creating a product for. It's all about doing as little work for as much money possible, and the consumer has been taken completely out of the equation. Our input and desires used to matter, used to be valuable because keeping the consumer happy was seen as how to do business and maintain stable revenue. But now it's nothing in the face of the profit machine.

a ticket to months 15 dollar

a ticket to enjoy friends online 15 dollar a months.

F2P being pushed yes, not that many sub games now days yet never have there been so many failures in MMORPG history then now, why? Because they are pushing F2P and F2P really likes to ripit's players off, you get constant updates, but the majority of those updates are to the cash shop, and or ways to grind longer for a reward that shouldn't take nearly as long or cost nearly as much, 50 dollar mounts for example, 10 dollar bag space... Yeah if F2P is the future then your future is full of failed games that stop caring about you moment you stop spending on the game. They are only for those who spend money on the spot without thinking it out.

Reason most Sub mmo's have sucked isn't because they were sub it was because they built them with bare bones, something more meant for F2P quality then Sub quality. FFXIV fits Sub quality in MMORPG but it still lacks some key features of older titles.

Some of the hardest grinds I've been exposed to have been on free to play models, because they tend to add 'boosters' or perks to the cash shop to help you make said grinds acceptable for anyone with a life outside the game. Not much changes between the two models, if you don't want a grind you'll still have to pay money (often more than $15) unless you are in school or have a flexible work schedule.

The FFXIV grind is not bad at all, except for scripts, I've heard nightmares about that.

The point is, if you think the weekly caps and such will be lifted if the game goes F2P and you will live in a grindless utopia, you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

But how are they extending the "fun"? Yupe, grinds.

As I have edited into the first post, since everyone seems to take it wrongly, it's just a realisation I had about how both sub and F2P MMOs use grinds "get money".

I used to think it's " the best consumer-oriented value for the MMO product" too. But with grinds and gating to drag out content (hold your subscription), a cash shop that offers rewards for money (cosmetic sure ... but rewards nonetheless), I can't help but feel the lines has blur considerably.

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Lines, blurred?

It is COSMETICS in the cash shop. Nothing that changes the speed/way you progress. Or anything that lets you skip progressing at all.

The cashshop is just another way to milk the cow without abandoning the steady income which i think most people forget is the actual reason why we get so much "new" stuff over the course of a year: because devs can plan ahead due to subscription numbers

And yes, of course they want to keep you playing, because that is how they make their salaries. Less Money equals less going into development,less resources to develop, less customers that yearn for the NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW and come back for 1-2 month for every patch.

But f2p tries to suck every penny out of your purse with methods that are more then questionable if you think about it for just one second:
Inventory Space - sometimes you loose it if you do not keep rebuying it - like a subscription
Leveling speed greatly differs if you buy shop items or not - there are games out there where you can pump 100 bucks in it to max a char without doing anything - fair? not really
minions and mounts (now dont come and say "WE GOT THAT NAOW TOO CRY SOB MIMIMI" - we got 1 mount in the shop and, how many of 120+ minions?) that are usually gated behind an absurd rng wall that can only be called a casino
Equipment equally to drops in highest level raids bought for a couple bucks
Instance reset items - you want to do something more then once a day - well to bad, you better pay up then

etc etc etc etc

tl;dr:

f2p is in for the quick buck - and the game will usually die off into only a few server after 1-3 years
p2p is in for the long run - the game usually has a growth curve and a decline curve with spikes on patch and expansion dates

I for my part will quit this game if it goes f2p and i dont like the shop methods/changes - same as i quit AION/RIFT/TERA those games are still up and running, but to see how bloodsucking development becomes after a game goes f2p is horrible :/

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Originally Posted by Magistrella

The cashshop is just another way to milk the cow without abandoning the steady income

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That people can state this without even a single ounce of protest is emblematic of just how much the producer-consumer relationship has eroded.

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Originally Posted by Magistrella

Lines, blurred?

It is COSMETICS in the cash shop. Nothing that changes the speed/way you progress. Or anything that lets you skip progressing at all.

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Depends on how you define "progressing".

People play for different reasons. Different things are important to different people.

For some, functional gear is what is valuable. For others, it's the cosmetic stuff.

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Inventory Space - sometimes you loose it if you do not keep rebuying it - like a subscription

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Funny you should mention that. *cough*retainers*cough*

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Leveling speed greatly differs if you buy shop items or not - there are games out there where you can pump 100 bucks in it to max a char without doing anything - fair? not really

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Sub MMO = you spend time and money to level.
F2P MMO = you can spend time or money to level.

As the Goblins in WoW like to say, "Time is money, friend.". So ...

On a side note, WoW has embraced that concept in RL too via the WoW token.

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The cashshop is just another way to milk the cow without abandoning the steady income which i think most people forget is the actual reason why we get so much "new" stuff over the course of a year: because devs can plan ahead due to subscription numbers

And yes, of course they want to keep you playing, because that is how they make their salaries. Less Money equals less going into development,less resources to develop, less customers that yearn for the NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW and come back for 1-2 month for every patch.

But f2p tries to suck every penny out of your purse with methods that are more then questionable if you think about it for just one second:
...

minions and mounts (now dont come and say "WE GOT THAT NAOW TOO CRY SOB MIMIMI" - we got 1 mount in the shop and, how many of 120+ minions?) that are usually gated behind an absurd rng wall that can only be called a casino
Equipment equally to drops in highest level raids bought for a couple bucks
Instance reset items - you want to do something more then once a day - well to bad, you better pay up then

etc etc etc etc

tl;dr:

f2p is in for the quick buck - and the game will usually die off into only a few server after 1-3 years
p2p is in for the long run - the game usually has a growth curve and a decline curve with spikes on patch and expansion dates

I for my part will quit this game if it goes f2p and i dont like the shop methods/changes - same as i quit AION/RIFT/TERA those games are still up and running, but to see how bloodsucking development becomes after a game goes f2p is horrible :/

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There are many ways to do a F2P MMO.

Again I'm not advocating for FFXIV to go F2P.

You are pointing out the worst ways to go about it.

Anyway, this somehow went off topic into a discussion about the evils of F2P. Whatever.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Is there a potential plan for FFXIV to go F2P?

I suspect they are considering it.

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going to stop you right since yoshi.p said that he would rather see ff14 died than go f2p, cant blame him

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

Funny you should mention that. *cough*retainers*cough*

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Lemme fix that:

additional retainers.

Still 2 of mine have nothing else but skins in it. 2 are for crafting 2 are luxury because it makes life easier.

I pay 12,99 per month as everyone else that only pays in monthly installments - so i don't really see it as paying more.

I could now go on about "1 buck per 175 slots" "data reasoning bla bla" but meh, buy it or leave it - you don't need them and if you don't craft you dont get a substantial advantage if you (and even if you do 1 retainer of each kind is more then enough, hence why i have 4 total). SE did enough with materials from beastmen tribes so you dont need to hoard every ingredient. And with management you can easily make due with 2 retainer even if you're an omni crafter

but i keep going on even tho i didn't want to - i see them as not necessary bonus to enhance playing experience *shrugs*

F2P MMO's generate easy cash for just existing but they're also usually lazier in design. TERA's 3 new classes were all gender and race locked because the developers don't want to waste time making animations for male characters and other races that people don't play as often. In a modern sub model MMO, that would not fly. Rift's design has gone downhill since they went F2P as well. It started off with a fairly good launch, barring some servers having issues, and a great addition of dimensions and then on to Nightmare Tide, that was so full of bugs even one of their biggest enthusiasts refused to stream it til they fixed it.

F2P MMO's are great games for when you're in-between, but as something to spend most of my time on? They're garbage. SE has to keep quality control because that's the only way to keep people subbed, a F2P game doesn't because they'll generate income just from being there and offering a new skimpy outfit for your elf every 30 days.

Why do the people defending the extra retainers always have at least one of them? Are you afraid that if they increase it for everyone you would've been wasting your money? That's why you want to keep the status quo, to feel better about renting them? Just curious.

As for the main topic, and as some people have said already, the moment this game goes F2P I'll leave and I won't look back. I've played enough F2P MMOs to know that they aren't worth my money nor my time (especially on the long run). Their whole point is to find new ways to keep getting more money, instead of making a fun game that people want to keep playing and paying every month. It's logical that they do that, but I don't have to like said model as it's NOT customer or player friendly.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Why do the people defending the extra retainers always have at least one of them? Are you afraid that if they increase it for everyone you would've been wasting your money? That's why you want to keep the status quo, to feel better about renting them? Just curious.

As for the main topic, and as some people have said already, the moment this game goes F2P I'll leave and I won't look back. I've played enough F2P MMOs to know that they aren't worth my money nor my time (especially on the long run). Their whole point is to find new ways to keep getting more money, instead of making a fun game that people want to keep playing and paying every month. It's logical that they do that, but I don't have to like said model as it's NOT customer or player friendly.

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We currently see the value in it. If SE added a third free retainer I wouldn't care. For me they are a matter of convenience, not necessity.

FFXI charged $1 extra for additional characters because we used them in exactly the purpose that we use retainers for - extra storage capacity and market board slots. Except XI didn't even give you the first two free and their capacity was half of a XIV retainer. So it's really about the same.

When a game goes F2P, it may as well be dead in my eyes.

Not to mention the one time I tried a "F2P" game I ended up spending more money than I have in my year+ of FFXIV. :p But that's a me problem, probably.

The day when FFXIV goes F2P, I will stop playing it. That's all I have to say about this.

I like the way DC Universe does it's f2p model.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

FFXI charged $1 extra for additional characters because we used them in exactly the purpose that we use retainers for - extra storage capacity and market board slots. Except XI didn't even give you the first two free and their capacity was half of a XIV retainer. So it's really about the same.

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Those are full characters that can do everything another character can, not glorified banks with a face. Also, this isn't FFXI. A lot of us are paying full price for the sub so that we can play more than one character. But then SE wants to charge additional monthly fees for more bank access? It's ridiculous. Those retainers are going to end up costing you WAY more money than they ever would even in a f2p mmo. Actually, they probably already have.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

But then SE wants to charge additional monthly fees for more bank access? It's ridiculous.

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I agree on that aspect too, and no the fact that it's "optional" doesn't excuse the fact that additional bank space should be available for everyone.

But heck I would've let this slide if that 1 additional buck was additional retainer per character and that's it but NOPE, it's an additional buck to your subscription and your retainer only lasts 30 days without it.

Not even F2P games are that greedy (at least not all of them!)

see FFXIV going F2P, even if not heavenward yet, but the main game possibly.. especially since its starting to feel brocken with the unsynced BS!!

.. Yoshi, pl change that back, the unsynced is ruining the main game and experience.. or only allow unsynced if 2 (yes 2), players less are taking part.. and then only allow up to +50 gear lv unsyned not more or some other solution.. (.. its a bit off topic, but see that breaking the game, and possibly forcing it into F2P at sooner than expected)