Yoshi-P's Interview with Famitsu includes a few comments about AST

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Both have advantage and disadvantage. Noct's 5% healing buff helps to close the gap but Aspected sucks with paired with SCH. Diurnal is great HoT healing but robs you of mp fast.

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The 5% potency from Noct is far worse than the potency gain from the regens. Diurnal is far more efficient in mana than Nocturnal because of it.

The 5% "advantage" in Noct is an illusion. Noct has no advantages over Di currently.

After reading Yoshi's answers I feel like they didn't spent enough time planning how Astro's will fit the grand scheme of things, which kinda frustrates me. He talks about walking a fine line since AST has some overlap with SCH/WHM but that is something they decided on instead of adding a third way to heal people. They made it really hard for themselves.

Personally I don't think they'll get around a overhaul of the card system and or how cards will interact with healing spells.

The specific mention of 'RNG problem' makes me really afraid they're going to just fix Shuffle and go 'welp, cards are good now'.

i've healed with another AST before and we've both done fine and don't need to communicate.

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Originally Posted by Geardagas

This is really, really strange for me to say, since I've played wow for so long and I'm used to completely incompetent devs thst don't listen to a word you say...

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This is so sad, and yet so true...

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Originally Posted by Akyio

Im happy that its acknowledged, however i feel a bit pain now to be playing 3-4 or maybe even 5 more weeks until AST will be fixed..

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I wonder if you have to wait that long. He said they'd observe 1-2 weeks after data collection is done (which he defined as very soon). I think that they already have some fixes/buffs/call-them-what-you-likes up their sleeves, so things MIGHT get started right after that observation time. Could be wishful thinking on my side though. Guess patience is indeed a virtue.

To be honest I think its really unlikely of them to add any more AST changes before 3.1. It'll be repeat of how they handled warrior.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well after reading the interview I think the primary focus should be on buffing the cards over the heals mainly to give AST a better identity.

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That is simply not how this game works. We are not support, we are a healer.
If we cannot heal the damage going out, they can buff our buffs as much as they want, you will never be used by progress and always be known as the "farm content" healer.
I don't know about you, but that is not a place i ever want to be in.

We can give our opinion on the matter but we will have to wait and see what they specifically state they are going to do with the job when the developer letter comes out on the 20th I think is the date. Card buffs itself is strong but the range could be worked on a bit. Bole though I do not think I have ever used it once over royal road fodder. I wish when you use royal road though the next draw would be reduced dramatically over having to wait another 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

That is simply not how this game works. We are not support, we are a healer.
If we cannot heal the damage going out, they can buff our buffs as much as they want, you will never be used by progress and always be known as the "farm content" healer.
I don't know about you, but that is not a place i ever want to be in.

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/sigh, the key problem isn't that we can't heal, if it was you wouldn't be leveling it right now and people couldn't be clearing content. It's we have lower heals and don't bring much to the party other than that RNG buff system which only has 3 out of 6 buff worthwhile. AST has a lot of issues that need to be fixed but simple bumping up our heals to compare to the other guys isn't going to help.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

The 5% potency from Noct is far worse than the potency gain from the regens. Diurnal is far more efficient in mana than Nocturnal because of it.

The 5% "advantage" in Noct is an illusion. Noct has no advantages over Di currently.

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Seems you stopped reading after half a sentence :confused: I said they both have advantage and disadvantage, not one is greater than the other. I personal think HoT on Diurnal is great but the mp is very costly to use it continually as a mitigation tool and just times it's just cheaper to use helios.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

/sigh, the key problem isn't that we can't heal, if it was you wouldn't be leveling it right now and people couldn't be clearing content. It's we have lower heals and don't bring much to the party other than that RNG buff system which only has 3 out of 6 buff worthwhile. AST has a lot of issues that need to be fixed but simple bumping up our heals to compare to the other guys isn't going to help.

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Again, we can bring buffs that double damage, if we cannot outheal the damage that is inc we are useless on any progress content and always be known as farm content healer.
I don't know if you missed it, but a ast has the healer role in duty journal and that should be first thing we do and it should have been the thing our cards do instead of random buffs.

Today i did a vault run where the tank was constantly getting hit pretty dam hard.
The only thing i could do was pray for an arrow card so my heals would increase a tiny bit, we have nothing else.
You have any idea how frustrating that was?

If i was a scholar i could have used rouse, fey illumination and straight up heal through it.
Same with whm divine seal/speedspell (forgot the name) combo.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Seems you stopped reading after half a sentence :confused: I said they both have advantage and disadvantage, not one is greater than the other. I personal think HoT on Diurnal is great but the mp is very costly to use it continually as a mitigation tool and just times it's just cheaper to use helios.

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SuzakuCMX has the right idea about Diurnal being more MP efficienct, though I will admit it took me a long time to wrap the logic around my head, so I'll see if I can help out with this.

Consider looking at a Diurnal AST and Nocturnal AST within an 18 second window (the duration length of Aspected Benefic's HoT)

Diurnal AST
18s @ 2.375 GCD = 7 spell casts within that time frame

• 1 Aspected Benefic @ 190 Potency & 707 MP
• 6 Benefics @ 2,280 Potency & 2,124 MP
• 6 Aspected Benefic HoTs @ 600 Potency

Total Potency: 3,070 Potency
Total MP: 2,831 MP

vs.

Nocturnal AST
18s @ 2.5 GCD = 7 spell casts within that time frame

• 7 Benefics @ 2,793 Potency & 2,478 MP

Total Potency: 2,793 Potency
Total MP: 2,478 MP

In order for Nocturnal to match this output, they'll replace one Benefic with Benefic II (+252 Potency, +442 MP), which in turn makes Nocturnal's AST total value for those 18 seconds as:

Total Potency: 3,045 Potency
Total MP: 2,920 MP

So, not only does Nocturnal do slightly less potency in the same 18 seconds, they also require slightly more MP to do so.

This is the unfortunate reality of Nocturnal.

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Originally Posted by Kietsu

The specific mention of 'RNG problem' makes me really afraid they're going to just fix Shuffle and go 'welp, cards are good now'.

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Oh I'm hedging a bet that Shuffle will get an adjustment. Whether a shorter cooldown or they give what most want, does not re-draw the same card. Cannot see both happening. The first solution is a safer bet.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Snip.

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Again please read my full statement. I'm not saying Noct is better than Diurnal or the other way around. I"m simply stating both have good things and bad things about them. Noct has a nice 5% bonus but it's aspected sucks with a SCH. Diurnal has great HoT but those can consume mp faster. I've gone OOM once or twice trying to keep HoT when I should have just used Helios.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Again please read my full statement. I'm not saying Noct is better than Diurnal or the other way around. I"m simply stating both have good things and bad things about them. Noct has a nice 5% bonus but it's aspected sucks with a SCH. Diurnal has great HoT but those can consume mp faster. I've gone OOM once or twice trying to keep HoT when I should have just used Helios

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But it doesn't. If you're playing Diurnal properly you'll use slightly less MP over time while outputting slightly more potency. The logic says it right there.

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I see your edit about Helios. I have to ask, why would you be using Helios? You haven't given any specific example in this thread about the situation to use Helios over Benefics / Aspected Benefics. The only thing you've said to this topic is "Diurnal / HoTs use more MP overall" which is false (as shown above).

EDIT: NVM, I don't have the time to get into some long strung out debate about people misunderstanding my point and trying to put words into my mouth. Not sure how I can make it any more clear.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

K, where is your over healing factored in then? Over heal = mp loss. If you use an Aspected Helios @ 1500mp and you just needed to use a Helios @ 900mp it's a lose of mana points. "Diurnal has great HoT but those can consume mp faster." Can doesn't equal is.

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So, if I understand you correctly, what you're advocating is the use of Aspected Helios as a continually running HoT to help normalize damage?

Most of us are talking about using Aspected Benefic as a HoT to help normalize damage and yes, single target healing Diurnal is better than Nocturnal.

When most people think "HoTs", they think spells like Regen and Diurnal Aspected Benefic - not Medica II or Diurnal Aspected Helios. You should've probably been clearer in your initial argument then.

[Edit]

And just so you know, Aspect Helios is much more MP efficient then using double Helios if you do need that much healing. I would like to think most healers understand when they need to use Helios / Medica versus Aspected Helios / Medica II while they're dealing with party damage.

The only thing I wanted from my Astro was to be more of a support role. All they showed and talked about was cards and buffs... None of that has come to fruition. Astro was my second 60, followed instantly by Scholar and the pets on Scholar outright feel superior to Astro buffs, it makes no sense.

I've never understood why this genre abandoned support roles so hard. FFXI was awesome for support roles, WoW was also amazing for support roles up until Burning Crusade ended and the new philosophy became that you had to be able to make a group out of anything and all classes must have potency within 5% of one another...

Heck, I got server first on a Lady Vashj during The Burning Crusade on a Shadow Priest, did like... 60% of the DPS of the top person but I super charged mana and health regen and people were elated when I was placed in their party in the raid group

That's all gone now though, now the consensus is that we all HAVE to be the hero. Max HPS/DPS, make everyone the same for easy balancing... Combined with the weird state of leveling and empty overworlds it's what sours me on the MMO genre every few years.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

And just so you know, Aspect Helios is much more MP efficient then using double Helios if you do need that much healing. I would like to think most healers understand when they need to use Helios / Medica versus Aspected Helios / Medica II while they're dealing with party damage.

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I'm about to step out the door for work but wanted to touch on this real fast. This is why Diurnal is better than Nocturnal right now, because you can over come the disadvantage of mp heavy HoT spells but trying to not over heal. When I play SCH I normally try to keep galvanized up on the party the whole time to make up for SCH lack of healing power verse WHM, that's what damage mitigation is about. You can't play that way in Diurnal Sect and you can't over come Nocturnal Sect inability to work with galvanized. The 5% healing buff is nice on Nocturnal but everything needs work. Until that happens Nocturnal Sect will not be good.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I'm about to step out the door for work but wanted to touch on this real fast. This is why Diurnal is better than Nocturnal right now, because you can over come the disadvantage of mp heavy HoT spells but trying to not over heal. When I play SCH I normally try to keep galvanized up on the party the whole time to make up for SCH lack of healing power verse WHM, that's what damage mitigation is about. You can't play that way in Diurnal Sect and you can't over come Nocturnal Sect inability to work with galvanized. The 5% healing buff is nice on Nocturnal but everything needs work. Until that happens Nocturnal Sect will not be good.

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You are going to run out of MP very very fast if you try to use this on savage. Just sayin'

This is good to see. YoshiP's response to the current state of AST is very wise.

I've seen rapid balancing in other MMOs. Inevitably, the result is that things become imbalanced in other ways, which doesn't fix the problem at all. The slower and more objective approach of collecting data first causes some frustration for people who want changes fast, but fixes the real problems sooner.

Patience is difficult but rewarding. On the bright side, experienced AST who are toughing it out will find themselves in a very good place without having diminished the value of their friends' enjoyment of the game.

I have an idea that would make AST more desirable to take.

What about making Celestial Opposition stop the time. Instead of stunning the enemies it would froze them in time (including all bosses). It wouldn't interrupt casts, it would just froze them and after it finishes the freezing the cast would continue.
With this change the skill would become the ultimate ability for AST. You could froze a boss to set up a mitigation strategy and minimize damage. You could froze the boss to let your team dodge that AoE. You could froze that boss to help your party to recover after a big unavoidable damage. You could froze that boss that's about to enrage and give your party 4 more seconds to kill him.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

I have an idea that would make AST more desirable to take.

What about making Celestial Opposition stop the time. Instead of stunning the enemies it would froze them in time (including all bosses). It wouldn't interrupt casts, it would just froze them and after it finishes the freezing the cast would continue.
With this change the skill would become the ultimate ability for AST. You could froze a boss to set up a mitigation strategy and minimize damage. You could froze the boss to let your team dodge that AoE. You could froze that boss to help your party to recover after a big unavoidable damage. You could froze that boss that's about to enrage and give your party 4 more seconds to kill him.

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it would either be too OP or still underwhelming. Btw froze is past tense Freeze is what you would use in your post.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

With this change the skill would become the ultimate ability for AST. You could froze a boss to set up a mitigation strategy and minimize damage. You could froze the boss to let your team dodge that AoE. You could froze that boss to help your party to recover after a big unavoidable damage. You could froze that boss that's about to enrage and give your party 4 more seconds to kill him.

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So whats the difference between FROZEing and stunning? Seems like FROZEing the boss is literally the same exact thing as stunning the boss. Unless it isn't diminishing returns, which is op.

That if the boss is casting an ability it doesn't stop the cast. The cast would continue after the freezing.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

Less RNG or no RNG on buffs would be good, as would looking at the lack of healing potency AST has compared to WHM and SCH.

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It would be awesome to be able to choose our buffs, depending on the situation T^T. We could easily pre-prep fights (Royal road a AoE buff, spread a spear, draw a bole.... right before boss pull or first dungeon pull, toss the spear on all, use Bole on the tank..... hells, in a mid-fight known for a raid-wide AoE (megaflare, etc), Royal Road an AoE card, spread a bole sometime earlier..... use the Bole right before the AoE hits (even if SCH/Noct AST can use shields...). Just extra mitigation. Heavy DPS checks - pre-Royal road an AoE card, spread a Balance, draw an Arrow... AoE the party with Balance, Arrow the slowest or lowest DPS to give them a boost (BRD/MCH/PLD). Or AoE Ewer on healers in something like A4. Or throw a RR'ed potency buff with a spread or drawn whatsitsface TP card on WAR/Constantly AoEing melee DPSes, knowing there's a WAR tank in a dungeon with big pulls.
But it's just not that easy to plan when it's all RNG. I've had fights where the only thing remotely useful drawn was a bole. For the entire fight. Spears and ewers e'rrywhere! I ended up just Royal Roading everything or just throwing Spears on tank/DPS in hopes of catching a CD not yet used. It would be a lot of planning and predicting and timing if they let us choose our cards.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening ._.

I would so take being able to pick my cards over buffed healing power - if in a party with another healer, I can easily help the other healer out, using the buffs... throw extended or potent Bole on the tank if they're getting slapped around and we're having a hard time keeping up, throw raised potency ewer on the healer if their MP is low. Throw a spear on them right as someone dies if they're the type to SC+Raise right away (or, even better, if they indicate BEFORE they pop shroud and I can throw a spear on them so Shroud comes back sooner.... assuming I have one in spread or Draw isn't on CD)...

In this case it would still be a wanted healer for the buffs, but would not overwrite the need for healing ability from WHM or SCH...

But I really shouldn't say much about the healing potency, as I haven't hit anywhere near end game content on AST, yet x.x It's just all I got, on keeping the balance

Glad to see this. It doesn't seem like AST needs HUGE modifications to be on par:

Def agree that cards need to be addressed. If AST could get the cards they need, it could solve many healing issues.

On the healing end, nocturnal AB should be modified in some way IMO

Being able to freely pick your cards would make this job truly unique and much more interesting. Of course we'd need cards that actually help us healing, so when we need high healing throughput we can just buff ourselves or use damage mitigation buffs and in less healing intensive phases we can use cards to improve our comrades' dps instead of directly dpsing. This is more or less what SCHs do when switching fairy, but in our case it would be much more important to optimally use our unique feature because we can't "sic" cards. Unfortunately, the rng nature of cards makes 4 out of 6 cards useless. Need to mitigate that tank buster? Well too bad, here's a spear for you! Wanna help your just revived dps with tp? Take this bole.
I really hope they reconsider how cards work, but I'm not setting my expectations too high.

I would much rather see a buff now, be found to be OP and get a slight nerf later. This mentality of "Let's make sure not to overshoot things, so we never have to make people unhappy with nerfs" is lame. Yeah, NIN was a bit OP when it was released and it got some nerfs and people were upset. I'm sure most of them are over it now.

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Originally Posted by Akava

I would much rather see a buff now, be found to be OP and get a slight nerf later. This mentality of "Let's make sure not to overshoot things, so we never have to make people unhappy with nerfs" is lame. Yeah, NIN was a bit OP when it was released and it got some nerfs and people were upset. I'm sure most of them are over it now.

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The funny thing about being OP is, that it does need a slight nerf but a drastic one. So - at least I think so - I rather wait some weeks and get a buff that has been thought through, and not been made in some kind of haste. I had that kind of "buff-nerfing" for way too long while playing wow and it just makes me sick...

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Originally Posted by Akava

I would much rather see a buff now, be found to be OP and get a slight nerf later. This mentality of "Let's make sure not to overshoot things, so we never have to make people unhappy with nerfs" is lame. Yeah, NIN was a bit OP when it was released and it got some nerfs and people were upset. I'm sure most of them are over it now.

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Actually, anyone who has played wow for any length of time knows that this mentality is spectacular. There is nothing worse then logging in and finding out that your class has been randomly rendered useless, then next week it's fixed again, then the week after its rendered even more useless than before and you lost a fun ability too, and so and and so on. It just kills the fun.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

Being able to freely pick your cards would make this job truly unique and much more interesting. Of course we'd need cards that actually help us healing,.

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Unless we can pick cards, healing should NEVER be tied to them. Having buffs on rng is one thing, having your ability to keep someone from dying is another.

Never make healing any moe rng than just having crits. Ever. I know we have some wow players around....rng spreading renewing mist anyone? How did having uplift tied to an rng feel? Pretty crummy right?! Add in this game has next to no smart heals (correct me if wrong but fairy's embrace is it, yeah?) and rng healing is simply unacceptable. In wow you had a number of smartheals to pick up slack/catch someone missed in aoe (or make healing very very lazy).

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

Unless we can pick cards, healing should NEVER be tied to them. Having buffs on rng is one thing, having your ability to keep someone from dying is another.

Never make healing any moe rng than just having crits. Ever. I know we have some wow players around....rng spreading renewing mist anyone? How did having uplift tied to an rng feel? Pretty crummy right?! Add in this game has next to no smart heals (correct me if wrong but fairy's embrace is it, yeah?) and rng healing is simply unacceptable. In wow you had a number of smartheals to pick up slack/catch someone missed in aoe (or make healing very very lazy).

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Tbh, I highly doubt that fairy heals via smart heals, it's rather a come first serve first mentality. Plus smart heals are by far the worst thing blizzard could implement... "ZOMFG HEALS NEEDING TOO MUCH TIME TO DECIDE ON WHICH TARGET TO THROW THEM HEALS" "i got it lets take this out and let the mechanic decide" "YEA EVERYONE GUNNA LIKE MUCH"..sure on some casts it is nice (like Well of Light)....but I'm getting way too off-topic..

To summarize, yes i know what you are talking about, but i wonder why one would need cards that help "us" healing? Cards were meant to be buffs, so the only thing I could think of would be a flat percentage to healing via a card buff (play balance on yourself get 5% benefic heal and see dem dds cry xD)

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Originally Posted by YuiSasaki

To summarize, yes i know what you are talking about, but i wonder why one would need cards that help "us" healing? Cards were meant to be buffs, so the only thing I could think of would be a flat percentage to healing via a card buff (play balance on yourself get 5% benefic heal and see dem dds cry xD)

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I had thought this at one point- make balance give healers more healing and make bole increase healing received, but I worry that would make those too desirable compared to other cards (balance more than it already was). Personally I was hoping they would tack an aoe heal on CO (our assize/indom) and have diurnal increase healing received and noct reduce damage taken, or something like that.

As for lightspring, that and totems were what made the most sense as a 'smartheal', a deployable that ticked away, or did nothing if no one was THAT badly hurt. One or two of those is great. All your aoe heals? Not as great, haha. Though now that I think of it, I wonder if aoe healing being 'raid' targeted and not 'party' targeted has anything to do with that. This game doesn't have a lot of 24m content though....

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

Unless we can pick cards, healing should NEVER be tied to them. Having buffs on rng is one thing, having your ability to keep someone from dying is another.

Never make healing any moe rng than just having crits. Ever. I know we have some wow players around....rng spreading renewing mist anyone? How did having uplift tied to an rng feel? Pretty crummy right?! Add in this game has next to no smart heals (correct me if wrong but fairy's embrace is it, yeah?) and rng healing is simply unacceptable. In wow you had a number of smartheals to pick up slack/catch someone missed in aoe (or make healing very very lazy).

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The problem is they basically worked themselves in a corner and i really don't see how this class ever got passed the writing board tbh.
They needed a new healer that worked together with both current healers so they created the sect system. However that job was also not supposed to be as good in their respective specialty so they nerfed the output.
Then for some godforsaken reason instead of making a system around the weaker heals they decided to go with lolrng random buffs that barely do anything.
The card system should be part of our healing, but having an unreliable healer is just crap.
It's like 2 teams designed this job and just mashed ideas together and called it quits.

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Originally Posted by YuiSasaki

To summarize, yes i know what you are talking about, but i wonder why one would need cards that help "us" healing? Cards were meant to be buffs, so the only thing I could think of would be a flat percentage to healing via a card buff (play balance on yourself get 5% benefic heal and see dem dds cry xD)

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Because that is supposed to be our "thing"? We are a healer first of all and should be designed so.
What are we besides the card system? A underdeveloped whm/sch.
We are currently a buffer class in a game that has no place for it.

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

Unless we can pick cards, healing should NEVER be tied to them. Having buffs on rng is one thing, having your ability to keep someone from dying is another.

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I disagree. Keeping our healing the same as it is now but making one card buff our healing? Trash. Increasing our healing by 5% for 20s everytime we use Draw? Very nice.

I don't. Play ast. But my understanding is the cards are for buff....what if there was another draw option..."balance draw" that share CD with draw....this new draw will increase healing to match sch/whm ...u can spam that to stay on par with others healers...however it will also cancelled all active card buffs.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

Being able to freely pick your cards would make this job truly unique and much more interesting.

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No way, that takes away the whole gimmick and makes it less unique. You're using cards. And, hey, maybe you're cheating a little with a quick shuffle or a card stuffed up your sleeve. But if you just pick at will that totally kills it.

I don't need to pick my cards. I just need them all to be useful. In all circumstances.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I disagree. Keeping our healing the same as it is now but making one card buff our healing? Trash. Increasing our healing by 5% for 20s everytime we use Draw? Very nice.

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That is making it tied to the draw action and thus that bit isn't rnged, so I can agree to this point :3

Personally I thought that giving 2% mp back whenever we used draw would have been nice but a small duration healing buff sounds grand. I wonder if this would lead to people constantly drawing to have a buff up a lot (even just throwing away cards they don't want just to have a buff) or if they would sit on 'draw' for when burst was needed and not have as many cards going out. I am always fascinated by the differences in mentality amongst healers for that sort of thing.

Well having one card that increase healing potency doesn't mean you have to use it on yourself. Full parties have two healers and cards can buff your partners heals too.

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Originally Posted by RazeLandale

No way, that takes away the whole gimmick and makes it less unique. You're using cards. And, hey, maybe you're cheating a little with a quick shuffle or a card stuffed up your sleeve. But if you just pick at will that totally kills it.

I don't need to pick my cards. I just need them all to be useful. In all circumstances.

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I disagree - I feel like using cards on demand is better than the current way it is setup.

This way you can be strategic and adapt to different stages of the fight and select an appropriate card (some sort of shared CD system) - for example on progression you might want to be using bole more often because you just want to push past all mechanics until you see the entirity of a fight (hitting enrage). After than you may want to focus on DPS cards (balance/arrow) or be a reliable alternative to having a BRD/MCH (Ability to restore MP/TP). in raid for another 'powerhouse' DPS or just due to the fact that you're having bad luck finding a BRD/MCH

Instead the draw function could be changed to roll for the buffs like;

• Potency - Increases potency by 50%
• Duration - Increases duration by 15 seconds
• Extend - Spread action card to players within 15 yrds
• Reduce - Reduce the CD of played action card by 10 seconds
• Aura - Effect emits from player (10 yrd radius)

Royal Road instead, allows plays to gamble for improved buffs.
This includes;

• Potency - Increases potency by an additional 100% (total 150% potency)
• Duration - Increases duration by an additional 30 seconds (total 45 seconds)
• Extend - No yrd restriction (covers entirity of room)
• Reduce - Reduce the CD of played action card by an additional 20 seconds (total 30 seconds)
• Aura - Effect emits from player (25 yrd radius)
• Fumble - You lose the card