Why do Healers...

To point 3:
I could have used my swift for a Shadow Flare or derped the raise (Swift goes off too late u don't notice you didn't actually raise).

I could think I don't need that deco healer that anyway only costs mana to raise and will derp all mechanics again.

Also consider even a Swiftcast raise costs me 1 GCD. Had A2 where shit went south 1 tank n other healer down I powerhealed it to end and barely dared to swap my hotbar for a sec to rouse my fairy. When I finally dared to swift/raise the fight was over.

1) Why do healers cast Stoneskin/ Protect when there are still some people watching the cutscene? You're just going to have to cast it again in a few seconds, why not just wait and save your mana?

Because some groups do not wait for any buffs aside from Protect. And some don't even wait for that. So, as a WHM, I will individually hit people with Stoneskin as they load and Protect can wait until everyone is in. Because I find it is slightly more likely that groups (tanks especially) will wait for Protect than Stoneskin. And even then I sometimes have to Swiftcast Protect on the run.

2) Casting Medicas when only one or two people really need healing, to the point their go to reaction seems to be Medica II > Cure II. ??? It's such a waste of mana and drives me insane. It doesn't even grant enough HP for the people that you're doing it for.

Depends. Is there a big room-wide aoe coming? Then I'll start Medica II in advance so it hits when the attack does. Otherwise there is no need for it in that situation. If the two people being hit are dps, regen will usually do the trick.

3) Not resurrecting your co-healer if they die (and there's plenty of time/mana.) Why? Is it out of some sort of perverse need to try and solo it? Your fellow healer isn't your rival, they're your friend. Saw this on Shiva, they were flinging Cures at players with 95% HP almost the whole time while the other one just lay there.

Again, depends. Has the healer already died several times, either due to being new to the fight or general failings? If so, eventually I'll stop raising them. Especially if my mana is running low. Same for any dpsers actually. If the fight is not a hard dps race and I have to choose between saving my mana to keep the tank up or raising that dps who keeps hitting every aoe, that dps will be staying on the floor.

If there is a summoner in the group, I'll leave any raising to them, unless they need raising. They have mana to spare for that sort of thing and I probably won't.

I don't res anyone who has died to some ridiculous mechanic and obv doesn't know fight at all. As I suspect they will just die again

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Originally Posted by alilacia

1) Why do healers cast Stoneskin/ Protect when there are still some people watching the cutscene? You're just going to have to cast it again in a few seconds, why not just wait and save your mana?

Because some groups do not wait for any buffs aside from Protect. And some don't even wait for that. So, as a WHM, I will individually hit people with Stoneskin as they load and Protect can wait until everyone is in. Because I find it is slightly more likely that groups (tanks especially) will wait for Protect than Stoneskin. And even then I sometimes have to Swiftcast Protect on the run.

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im usually doing this:
waiting for everyone to get out of videos, swiftcast stoneskin II, then cast protect. all is done within 3 seconds and most ppl can at least wait THIS long (or are at least still in range XD)
usually that means no swiftcast aero III on the first pull but whatever XD
anyway, there is no reason for casting any buffs while the shield is still up, except for stoneskin as SCH/AST with no WHM in the pty
the same goes for buffing in a boss room as preparation for the fight before every pty member arrived (especially after wipes)

I do the same as the poster above me. It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people are viewing cut scenes and I see the other healer doing Protect or Stoneskin, because I wait until the moment they end, and then swiftcast Stoneskin, and then let everyone wait for Protect. I've never had anyone just rush off and I figure if they do, then have fun fighting without Protect on you. Sometimes where the scenes are really long then I think people do it just to kill time. I even just do Cure III sometimes just for the cool effect of the stars all falling down over everyone even though there's no purpose. I always try to keep Medica II up, it saves your butt many times and on a boss fight there's no issue with aggro. Also most fights sub 60 I find MP isn't an issue at all, to the point I'm rarely out, so Medica or whatever really isn't a big issue. If you have the mana big deal. Lastly, just because another healer dies doesn't mean they get the instant rez. Most times I don't rez because I've just used Swiftcast to maybe rez someone else, maybe there was a bad AoE so I swiftcast Medica II etc and it's just not possible to stand there for 8 seconds with a normal Raise. Also if there's a summoner in the party then they should be the ones raising the other healer to save my mana anyway. But like others said, if you've wiped already, then I'm not going to keep raising you and wasting my MP.

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Originally Posted by 416to305

Also most fights sub 60 I find MP isn't an issue at all, to the point I'm rarely out, so Medica or whatever really isn't a big issue.

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funny, i find WHM mana management at 60 now WAY better then ever before

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Originally Posted by 416to305

Most times I don't rez because I've just used Swiftcast to maybe rez someone else, maybe there was a bad AoE so I swiftcast Medica II etc and it's just not possible to stand there for 8 seconds with a normal Raise.

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just btw, you know PoM can also be used to speed up a rezz quite a bit if needed, right? ;)

Like most have already said.

1. The tank usually runs off like a mad man and doesn't give me time to properly set up the party. While I'm casting stoneskin they like to go into drooling rabid zombie mode and just pull stuff.

2. Medica while only one or two need it but not the 3rd? Usually it's to top off that DPS or give them a buffer so I can stay focused on the tank. It's not about whether it's enough overall it's whether it's enough HP to keep them alive while they make their mistakes. It grants me enough of a buffer to pay attention to the tank so I can go back and get to them.

3. No swiftcast or I've had my back up either refuse to do it or they die so much..they're just better off dead. I've had a few runs where the SMN dies constantly by not dodging then die to the point where my MP becomes an issue. In the end they sat there rather after their 4th death and I was able to stance dance finally and we got the boss fight done just fine without them.

Or are we talking about more endgame progress? If strictly that then...

1. / 2. / 3. impatient / doesn't know any better / lazy.

Didn't know I could use PoM for a rez, thanks for the tip! It's not often that happens, but never seems to fail it's always any time I do a Swiftcast Medica II that someone usually has to die right after lol.

I've RARELY had a tank just rush off at the start, like to the point that it's maybe 1 in 50 times and typically only on something super easy like Ifrit or Garuda normal. If a tank wants to just rush off at the start of something harder then good luck to them lol.

1. because im bored ^^
2. Maybe im too lazy to go through the party list to single cure.
3. Usually no swiftcast or I deem you useless

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

2. Maybe im too lazy to go through the party list to single cure.

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I'm guessing you don't play on a PC then because clicking with the mouse on the party frames is very easy and there's no quicker way to target people.

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Originally Posted by 416to305

Didn't know I could use PoM for a rez, thanks for the tip! It's not often that happens, but never seems to fail it's always any time I do a Swiftcast Medica II that someone usually has to die right after lol.

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I wish more healers would realize the value of Swiftcast+Medica II in some situations (same extent as AST's light speed). Even in Savage for when there are several mechanics happening. Or like the last boss in Neverreap so you never have to stand still and get hit. If anyone dies, it's likely because they have fallen off lol.

Honestly I rather not use a PoM for a raise if at all possible. It's sort of a last resort in raid content if no one else has swift up I guess. I like to use the skill liberally whether for catching up, DPS push, etc.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Ideally you don't even want to cast a single heal for the first few % of the boss so the Tank has time to get through their rotation and firmly establish threat. Even if the Tank pulled if the first thing you do is divine seal and medica II the Tank will have problems dealing with a huge spike in your threat..

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If a tank cannot hold hate through this at level 60, they need to go back to "tank and spank" school and learn.

You will not always have fights where there are no damage right off the bat. You will have some where they are getting their asses kicked first thing. Are you really going to stand there and go... but but... they don't have aggro yet.. I can't heal... I really do wonder if you would just stand there and let them die. Perhaps this is why I see so many healers do absolutely NO healing on tanks that obviously need it, out of fear.

what really bothers me is a healer who casts protect / stoneskin 2 RIGHT AFTER I WAS CASTING IT ON THE WHOLE GROUP >.>

if a healer does this i'll prepare for soloheal, because it seems he has no idea what is happing around him and what is cohealer does xD and i'm not talking about some situation where we start the cast at (almost) the same time... i am buffing the whole party. 20 seconds later the other healer is buffing the whole party again... c.c,, and that happens really often...

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Originally Posted by Seraphyna

If a tank cannot hold hate through this at level 60, they need to go back to "tank and spank" school and learn.

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100% true, all tanks should be able to secure an initial hate lead at the boss pull. If they don't they are probably face pulling and doing stuff that is amateur level. Not even DPS is going to hold back at level 60, let alone 50.

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Originally Posted by Tint

what really bothers me is a healer who casts protect / stoneskin 2 RIGHT AFTER I WAS CASTING IT ON THE WHOLE GROUP >.>

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Oh yeah.

Also if it's WHM+WHM and the other is hard casting Stoneskin II, I always swift it to beat them out. xD

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Originally Posted by Tint

what really bothers me is a healer who casts protect / stoneskin 2 RIGHT AFTER I WAS CASTING IT ON THE WHOLE GROUP >.>

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I hate this so much!! Like pay attention to what's going on, people are already buffed! Occasionally I'll even say it in chat but they don't reply at all.

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Originally Posted by technole

Also if it's WHM+WHM and the other is hard casting Stoneskin II, I always swift it to beat them out. xD

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I'm glad I'm not the only one that does this and it's really only to spite them. But they probably don't even notice. These are the same WHM's that spam heals non stop when it's entirely unnecessary. I see them and just go full dps mode unless I'm really needed for something. It's like ok, if you're that OCD and/or afraid of people dying, (or maybe just bad), I'll let you go ahead and do that. I saw one with about 95% overheal. I've been doing a lot of trial roulette for my WHM's relic, I'm on Lights right now. So I'm seeing a lot of different healers. Most of them drive me nuts. I wonder if anyone else in the group even notices when healers play like that.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

This is how I "win" the unspoken dual AST DF fight. Load in first and make sure I'm in Diurnal stance. :) Have never had to heal in Noct spec so far.

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As a follow up to this I've had a few AST/AST runs so far where the other healer did not want to go Noct spec. In one I think tank pulled before one of us could switch and this was A4 where I'd had a string of bad runs that night so I peaced out (I don't know why the tank thought that the best time to pull is when your two healers are busy figuring things out in chat and clearly not ready to go). I also had a trial with Dual AST where he refused to go Noct saying that our HoTs could stack after I told him they couldn't. At that point I intentionally stayed Diurnal spec and proceeded to overwrite his HOTs for the entire thing just to prove a point lol.

On the other side of that, I've encountered a number of AST's on my WHM that always go Noct spec when they see me. It drives me nuts that they're not in Diurnal but there's so many of them that just immediately go with it. Why? My WHM is only 56 and has been doing mostly level 50 content, so none of that requires a shield stance and Diurnal is just so much better.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

These are the same WHM's that spam heals non stop when it's entirely unnecessary. I see them and just go full dps mode unless I'm really needed for something. It's like ok, if you're that OCD and/or afraid of people dying, (or maybe just bad), I'll let you go ahead and do that. I saw one with about 95% overheal. I've been doing a lot of trial roulette for my WHM's relic, I'm on Lights right now. So I'm seeing a lot of different healers. Most of them drive me nuts. I wonder if anyone else in the group even notices when healers play like that.

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I'll call them paper cut healers. Good in that faceroll content "ok, if you want overheal I'll just stay in clerics, thanks". As a tank in a lower level its just something to deal with, sometimes they get the hint.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

As a follow up to this I've had a few AST/AST runs so far where the other healer did not want to go Noct spec. In one I think tank pulled before one of us could switch and this was A4 where I'd had a string of bad runs that night so I peaced out (I don't know why the tank thought that the best time to pull is when your two healers are busy figuring things out in chat and clearly not ready to go). I also had a trial with Dual AST where he refused to go Noct saying that our HoTs could stack after I told him they couldn't. At that point I intentionally stayed Diurnal spec and proceeded to overwrite his HOTs for the entire thing just to prove a point lol.

On the other side of that, I've encountered a number of AST's on my WHM that always go Noct spec when they see me. It drives me nuts that they're not in Diurnal but there's so many of them that just immediately go with it. Why? My WHM is only 56 and has been doing mostly level 50 content, so none of that requires a shield stance and Diurnal is just so much better.

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Scholar has always been my sub-main and I don't mind using Noct when I can. Noct is still very good in many instances instead of two regen jobs plus it has the +5% healing potency. Like in Ravena EX you absolutely want a shield healer when possible to cover for vulnerability/DoT mistakes, or even Final Liberation.

Only one time in AST/AST where it bugged me the other one didn't want to go Noct was The Chrysalis. I already loaded in with Diurnal and that is always my way to say how I'm going to play, but they didn't stance until after the pull. Shield is good to have there for possible orb mistakes, before the AoE, and the Triple hard tank hits. It is true a lot of ASTs don't know regen doesn't stack. Noct isn't perfect by any means, it has it's use, can save a life in extreme content, and the healing potency bonus that I don't think some players really think about.

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Originally Posted by Seraphyna

If a tank cannot hold hate through this at level 60, they need to go back to "tank and spank" school and learn.

You will not always have fights where there are no damage right off the bat. You will have some where they are getting their asses kicked first thing. Are you really going to stand there and go... but but... they don't have aggro yet.. I can't heal... I really do wonder if you would just stand there and let them die. Perhaps this is why I see so many healers do absolutely NO healing on tanks that obviously need it, out of fear.

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WHM has like a million options for a heal if the Tank is almost dead. Especially at the start of the fight. They probably also have stoneskin,e4e,Adloquium etc so why are they taking so much damage right off the bat? There is absolutely no reason to throw divine seal medica II straight away instead of throwing DoT's in cleric stance and doing some DPS.

Like seriously why are you throwing out a panic heal on the whole party when only the Tank is taking a bit of damage? The fact you are talking down to me while suggesting this is just funny.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

WHM has like a million options for a heal if the Tank is almost dead. Especially at the start of the fight. They probably also have stoneskin,e4e,Adloquium etc so why are they taking so much damage right off the bat? There is absolutely no reason to throw divine seal medica II straight away instead of throwing DoT's in cleric stance and doing some DPS.

Like seriously why are you throwing out a panic heal on the whole party when only the Tank is taking a bit of damage? The fact you are talking down to me while suggesting this is just funny.

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Your feelings got hurt from a simple question from an action I see from a lot from healers when I'm on my DPS job. Interesting.

I guess some people don't DPS and/or react as I have stated. Again, interesting.

Proactive vs. reactive, big big difference in skill.

But what happens when both ASTs zone in in Dinural? :p

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Originally Posted by FaizeD

3. If I'm already in a sect or have a fairy out, you better roll with the other option.

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Dual Selene is full uptime on Fey Wind, though. :(

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

I'm guessing you don't play on a PC then because clicking with the mouse on the party frames is very easy and there's no quicker way to target people.

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F1-F4.

Up to F8 in full party.

1. Have more than enough MP and time to waste.
2. Lazy. Don't want to look at the party list to see who need heal so Medica them all even if some of them don't need.
3. Swiftcast is down. But usually I'll do Presence of Mind - Raise if it's really needed.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

There are things I've noticed when DPSing/ co-healing that some healers do that really bug me.

1) Why do healers cast Stoneskin/ Protect when there are still some people watching the cutscene? You're just going to have to cast it again in a few seconds, why not just wait and save your mana?

2) Casting Medicas when only one or two people really need healing, to the point their go to reaction seems to be Medica II > Cure II. ??? It's such a waste of mana and drives me insane. It doesn't even grant enough HP for the people that you're doing it for.

3) Not resurrecting your co-healer if they die (and there's plenty of time/mana.) Why? Is it out of some sort of perverse need to try and solo it? Your fellow healer isn't your rival, they're your friend. Saw this on Shiva, they were flinging Cures at players with 95% HP almost the whole time while the other one just lay there.

Anyone else noticed this? Or do you have any gripes about odd healer habits? :p

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I see this thread isn't going to die yet, so I'll bite.

1) Because it takes if the slowpokes pop in as you finish casting. If not, casting again is not a hardship.

2) Usually player error. I do think that some healers just hit whichever button produces the biggest lens flares and the most sparkles.

3) If my co-healer is terrible, I won't make rezzing them a priority. I'll do it when Swiftcast is up or during a transitional phase where I have nothing else to do, just to be polite. In other cases the fight might be nearly over, so I'll continue pushing DPS as I heal, especially if Swiftcast isn't going to be up for a bit. Otherwise I don't know why a healer would neglect rezzing unless they're simply incompetent.

1) Why do healers cast Stoneskin/ Protect when there are still some people watching the cutscene? You're just going to have to cast it again in a few seconds, why not just wait and save your mana? The mana regen faster when you're not in battle so you could spam protect/succor/aspected all time you want

2) Casting Medicas when only one or two people really need healing, to the point their go to reaction seems to be Medica II > Cure II. ??? It's such a waste of mana and drives me insane. It doesn't even grant enough HP for the people that you're doing it for. They have mind that if they cast Medica II it has regen buff (But I still don't know why people do this lol

3) Not resurrecting your co-healer if they die (and there's plenty of time/mana.) Why? Is it out of some sort of perverse need to try and solo it? Your fellow healer isn't your rival, they're your friend. Saw this on Shiva, they were flinging Cures at players with 95% HP almost the whole time while the other one just lay there. Not for Frontline/PvP. You need resurrect other team no matter what.

It's my opinion though.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

OSnip

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Never played an fps. I have dysgraphia, if that matters at all? The "OCD" is more of, the magizenes are not stacked in the waiting room *spend time stacking turn to friend* "look I am so OCD." (End play all laugh society ends no one notices)

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

There are things I've noticed when DPSing/ co-healing that some healers do that really bug me.

1) Why do healers cast Stoneskin/ Protect when there are still some people watching the cutscene? You're just going to have to cast it again in a few seconds, why not just wait and save your mana?

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I do this because I know the impatient people will run ahead as soon as possible (the ones not doing the cutscene).

If you get them buffed before hand, you're safe. The people finishing the cutscene generally don't run in like a person farming the content would. Also mana was never an issue outside of combat ><

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

I'm guessing you don't play on a PC then because clicking with the mouse on the party frames is very easy and there's no quicker way to target people.

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obvs not sherlock...........

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

obvs not sherlock...........

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Some people don't click, they use the F keys which is a lot slower. Or some other keybind to toggle through friendlies. It was worth asking. No need to be a jerk about it. Shoot some people don't even keybind their skills. I saw a level 60 healer streaming things like Alex Normal and Ravana Ex yesterday, clicking every single spell.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

Some people don't click, they use the F keys which is a lot slower.

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Maybe not faster, but it's not really slower.

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Originally Posted by Seraphyna

Your feelings got hurt from a simple question from an action I see from a lot from healers when I'm on my DPS job. Interesting.

I guess some people don't DPS and/or react as I have stated. Again, interesting.

Proactive vs. reactive, big big difference in skill.

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WHM has no issues at all with maintaining a tank that's being hit hard, but none of those options are really "proactive" anyway. (Unless you consider precasting Cure to be "proactive" in which case that's a pretty loose usage of the word)

I cant use the F Keys for targeting (dont did it since i play mmo´s)
I need them for Skills (1-5,F1-F4,Q,E,R,T,Z,F and my 15 mouse keys) xD
Yeah i hate to click spells with the mouse.

Anything you can comfortably apply as a buffer is welcome for when you're trying to DPS. When I'm playing White Mage that usually means I'm dumping divine seal + regen, medica II and an asylum on top of the tank during pulls before I go into cleric stance.

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Originally Posted by FaizeD

1. Somewhat rational fear that people will run off before buffs which means casting them twice anyway. Why are people watching cutscenes?

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Honestly, this is why I do it...

I always do SS, only because I can do it on people not in cutscene and it saves time... but far far far too many times I have tanks and people that run off as fast as possible and then I have to cast it multiple times anyway. Better safe than sorry imho.

1) Bored. Plus mana regen fast out of combat. So not an issue.
2) Depends on fight, prolly for the regen from Medica 2. Example: I usually cast divine seal+medica II on raid even if full hp then drop an Asylum on Bismarck so I can throw my wind and pebbles at his back in cleric stance after he got harpooned \o/
3) Either too tunneled, or no swiftcast or switftcast on cd atm.

As a DPS i used to hate when a healer is dead and the other healer is struggling to keep us all alive and never bothers to raise him. Just raise the dead healer and it's SO much easier to recover. 1 healer in a hard fight is just a slow domino effect, unless overgeared, you cannot solo heal something like Ravana EX, it's very hard. Cap tank off with Adlo/E4E/Sacred and start casting raise.

1- cause some people run of to pull the mobs or just out of range asap (and people be like : this is not coils (note no one is overgeared of anything) oh true! but this is a ex heavens primal / alexander you idiot!)
2- no common sense or time spent reading a skill.. ooo look it says 3 must be better let me spam it for ever now (obviously refering to people who replace cure 1 whit 2 htne finaly whit 3, no care for potency, proc / mp cost)
3- most people only lvl the required secondary class to 15 and main class to max, so no cross classes! wich is stupid, or swift is on cd, and if your one of those who used it / dont have it and need to raise, light speed on astro, presense of mind on whm and on sch use your pet, micro manage it ! ^_^

also some people expect that if there is a summoner in a party they will raise if they are a not so good at mp managment on whm/ast or no time (if your a sch and fail at mp , shame on you!

stance dancing op, dont sit around if everythings fine ^_^

1 people don't wait for buffs I hate wen they run of.
2 dps I guess I usually go divine than cure than regan pot asylum. Than I Stance and dps till some one atleast 60% to start healing. I hate wen other whm don't use devine seal.
3 I bet its bc swiftcast of cd

Medica 2 can be used with divine seal, regen and asylum, then just DPS like a boss. But to be honest, i rarely use it for that purpose, I normally just use regen plus asylum and then DPS if the dungeon and group allows for it.

sometimes, if I load in fast enough, I can protect people before they load a cutscene. l33t hax.

I use my swiftcast to resummon my fairy after I eat her for aetherflow. So, you might have to wait 2 minutes on the floor. Although, if she procs a haste for me, I might cast a rez early, just beacuse its fun.

3) Because I'm playing my summoner and I raise you instead as DPS, preferably with swiftcast, thereby saving the other healer's swiftcast and MP for more dire moments?